[edmondwolfman]

Hello all. Newbie (to this forum) here. I've been working toward getting my fronts and centers the same brand for all the obvious reasons. I was planning on getting the Emotiva 8.3 fronts and the Emotiva 6.3 as the center. I recently purchased the Emotiva 6.3 http://emotiva.com/erm63.shtm and have been very pleased. I was going to add the 8.3s later but in my everlasting search for audio I can afford I ran across the Songtower reviews and it led to this forum. My question is "would the Songtowers work with my current Emotiva 6.3 center?" or would I eventually need to add the Songtower center in order to get a good cohesive sound across the front. The specs on the 2 centers are very similar or at least what they have listed. There definately could be more in depth specs listed but you get what you get

Also since the Emotiva 8.3s are fairly new I have no idea how they would stand up against the Songtowers.

Songtower with Ribbon Tweeters or cone?

Thanks for any feedback.

[MichiganMike]

I think you already know the answer.  For most cohesive sound, it is best to match the center channel to the left and right speakers in voicing, timbre, attack, imaging and other properties, as this will provide more realistic panning of sound across the front and a more cohesive soundstage. 

While you could use the Emotiva center with SongTowers, it will not be ideal. Listed specifications do not provide the information needed to judge the match.  If you do not hear a difference between the SongTower and the Emotiva center, then there is likely little reason for you to consider the SongTower over the Emotiva fronts to begin with.

Will you use the system mostly for multichannel or stereo?  If the answer is multichannel, the difference between the ribbon tweeter and the dome is likely to be less noticeable.  On the other hand, if you will do critical listening in stereo and you are looking for the best definition possible above 2000 hz, consider spending the extra money for the ribbon tweeter. 

If it was me, I would not consider getting the SongTowers with the ribbon tweeters if you plan to keep the Emotiva center.  This is likely to be more of a mismatch.  You probably would be happier spending the money on a matching Salk center channel for the SongTowers with the dome tweeter instead of the ribbon tweeter SongTowers and Emotiva center.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a happy owner of the SongTower QWT with the dome tweeter but use these only in a 2-channel system.

[edmondwolfman]

My problem is I have nowhere to hear the Songtower center to compare with the Emo 6.3. For that matter I have no way to compare the Songtowers with the Emo 8.3 FL and FR.

I listen to both 2 channel and multichannel music. I currently use Axiom M60s for my FL and FR and while some 2 channel music sounds really good a lot of time any music with a lot of high end especially female voices, gets a little bright. Probably the titanium tweeters in my room with wood floors etc. I like to listen in Direct mode without any room eq but on some music I have to turn on the eq to allow the highs to be managed.

All the reviews I've seen from magazine and internet reviewers as well as Songtower owners has been very positive so it makes one think "what if"

It's hard to compare internet direct speakers with speakers from retail "brick and mortar" stores because of the wide difference in prices. I think the conventional thinking is that a pair of speakers from ID costing $1000 would probably be double that in a retail store. Since the Songtowers are about twice what my Axiom M60s cost and they are both Internet Direct the STs should be quite a bit better speakers.

[mbakes]

Here is a link with some Salk owners that are willing to let you come by and listen to their speakers:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20721.0

[MichiganMike]

I second mbakes suggestion that you try to locate a Salk owner nearby that would allow you to audition the SongTowers so you may make an informed decision.  Reading reviews and input from others will only take you so far.  I drove 4 hours roundtrip to hear the SongTowers which made by decision much easier. 

[rahimlee54]

Make the drive you will know for yourself what you should do after that. 

[cop1s]

I  changed my axioms M60 for the Song Tower two months ago and I'm a  happy man !!! Don't hesitate , you will rediscover your cds.When you listen to female voice , it is like she is right there in front of you ; no more brightness . And don't be afraid for the bass, the ST reproduce a lot of bass , but it is less boomy than the Axioms .
I have sold the M60 and the Axiom center and Jim is supposed to ship me the Song Center this week , I can"t wait...

[edmondwolfman]

I  changed my axioms M60 for the Song Tower two months ago and I'm a  happy man !!! Don't hesitate , you will rediscover your cds.When you listen to female voice , it is like she is right there in front of you ; no more brightness . And don't be afraid for the bass, the ST reproduce a lot of bass , but it is less boomy than the Axioms .
I have sold the M60 and the Axiom center and Jim is supposed to ship me the Song Center this week , I can"t wait...

I have a good sub, the HSU ULS-15 so I wouldn't be worried about not having the bottom end although if the music sounded good without the sub I would just run 2 channel a lot of the time.

Did you experience what I do, that with some music the Axioms sound a bit bright? It's not there very often but when it is it gets tiring in a hurry. I usually just change to the next song. I hope I don't sound like I'm dogging the Axioms because for most music they sound very good. I don't have a high end dedicated CD player costing upwards of $1000, maybe that would make a difference. I stream most of my music via music servers and I download a lot of high res music 24/96 24/88 etc. from HDTracks, Linn records, etc. that should sound as good if not better than a CD. I also think if my room was treated and/or had carpet that would help alot but I don't see that happening so I just need to find some smoother sounding speakers

Do you have the ribbon tweeters or the cone (OW2 or OW4)?

I see you were running the Axiom center with your Songtowers for a while. How did that sound? I know the Songcenter is several steps up the ladder from the Axiom and don't blame you for ordering it but I was wondering if the ST in conjunction with the Axiom center sounded bad or you just know that with the addition of the Songcenter that it will be better.

[cop1s]

I have the cone tweeter . Effectively , when you play  song with brass ( Eagles : hell frezees over ) at high volume , it is very bright . Some female voices are bright too . When you listen for a long period , it becomes fatiguing .
For the center , I have tried  the Axiom with the ST and I didn't like it ; it is not the same tone . The ST are so accurate and clean ...Once you listen to them , you will understand .

[MichiganMike]

I have the cone tweeter . Effectively , when you play  song with brass ( Eagles : hell frezees over ) at high volume , it is very bright . Some female voices are bright too . When you listen for a long period , it becomes fatiguing .

I also have the SongTowers in my case with the Hiquphon silver dome tweeter (OW4).  The OW4 is an extra cost option in place of the standard OW2 but I would not expect this change to have much impact on the sound.  I do not find my SongTowers to be bright or fatiguing in extended listening.  In my experience, the SongTowers sound neutral and at times slightly forward with very good detail and exceptional off-axis response.  Differences in the listening room environment and positioning (toe-in) may also affect the brightness.

[evan1]

I undertand what he is saying about horns and vocals but I believe someone once said about these speakers " It's all about the midrange"

[DMurphy]

I undertand what he is saying about horns and vocals but I believe someone once said about these speakers " It's all about the midrange"

He may have been referring to the Axioms when he mentioned bright.  It's a little hard to tell from the context.

[DMurphy]

.

[edmondwolfman]

I have the cone tweeter . Effectively , when you play  song with brass ( Eagles : hell frezees over ) at high volume , it is very bright . Some female voices are bright too . When you listen for a long period , it becomes fatiguing .
For the center , I have tried  the Axiom with the ST and I didn't like it ; it is not the same tone . The ST are so accurate and clean ...Once you listen to them , you will understand .

cop, in reference to your statement about Eagles etc. being so bright they are fatiguing are you refering to the Axioms?

[turkey]

I also have the SongTowers in my case with the Hiquphon silver dome tweeter (OW4).  The OW4 is an extra cost option in place of the standard OW2 but I would not expect this change to have much impact on the sound. 

Here's what Oskar says:

OW3 and OW4:

Let me state this first: OW3 or OW4 are NOT just colored versions of the OWII!
This could easily be assumed, having studied the frequency curves. But no, they are not!

The basic construction of the OW3 and OW4 is the same as that of the OWII. So far so good.
Different cone (diaphragm) and other materials inside, but a very different combination of coating substances on the dome!
A different amount of coating too! A bit heavier and in fact more like the coating used with the OWI.

As you may have guessed by now, coating is absolutely essential for the quality of a soft dome tweeter.
In my opinion coating is THE far most important part of a soft dome tweeter (when properly done, that is .
OW3 and OW4 are coated  six times each! Standard OWI and OWII 2 times each.
Each coating is accomplished using unique special selected coating substances added to achieve the important damping in the dome surface and of course to achieve the special colors as well.

The sound picture of the OW3 and OW4 does lean towards a more soft and low distorted output in the lower frequencies than does the OWII.

The right coating and damping is in fact the secret behind the high quality we offer!
It takes most of a life time of experience to understand coating and damping in details.
Consistency really is a major problem, as all involved materials are soft and difficult to "measure" from batch to batch. Temperature, humidity and raw materials differ all the time.
To control production of soft domes at the highest quality level does not come easy.

[DMurphy]

I also have the SongTowers in my case with the Hiquphon silver dome tweeter (OW4).  The OW4 is an extra cost option in place of the standard OW2 but I would not expect this change to have much impact on the sound. 

Here's what Oskar says:

OW3 and OW4:

Let me state this first: OW3 or OW4 are NOT just colored versions of the OWII!
This could easily be assumed, having studied the frequency curves. But no, they are not!

The basic construction of the OW3 and OW4 is the same as that of the OWII. So far so good.
Different cone (diaphragm) and other materials inside, but a very different combination of coating substances on the dome!
A different amount of coating too! A bit heavier and in fact more like the coating used with the OWI.

As you may have guessed by now, coating is absolutely essential for the quality of a soft dome tweeter.
In my opinion coating is THE far most important part of a soft dome tweeter (when properly done, that is .
OW3 and OW4 are coated  six times each! Standard OWI and OWII 2 times each.
Each coating is accomplished using unique special selected coating substances added to achieve the important damping in the dome surface and of course to achieve the special colors as well.

The sound picture of the OW3 and OW4 does lean towards a more soft and low distorted output in the lower frequencies than does the OWII.

The right coating and damping is in fact the secret behind the high quality we offer!
It takes most of a life time of experience to understand coating and damping in details.
Consistency really is a major problem, as all involved materials are soft and difficult to "measure" from batch to batch. Temperature, humidity and raw materials differ all the time.
To control production of soft domes at the highest quality level does not come easy.

Yes--but.  I've discussed this with Oskar, and the differences are probably more important for designs that use the 0W tweeters in a first order electrical configuration, where the tweeter is required to maintain significant output into the very low treble (down to 1 kHz).  The ST crossover is at 2500 Hz 4th order acoustic, which means the output attenuates very quickly.  That's probably why I haven't been able to hear any differences between the 0W2 and 0W4. 

[cop1s]

Very sorry for the CONFUSION : when I said the brass and the female vocal were bright , I WAS REFERING TO THE  AXIOMS .

The ST are not bright at all : in fact , it is like the performer would be in your living room , right in front of you and singing just for you .
I can push the volume a lot higher than with the Axioms and I never feel ear fatigue .

[edmondwolfman]

Very sorry for the CONFUSION : when I said the brass and the female vocal were bright , I WAS REFERING TO THE  AXIOMS .

The ST are not bright at all : in fact , it is like the performer would be in your living room , right in front of you and singing just for you .
I can push the volume a lot higher than with the Axioms and I never feel ear fatigue .

cop, did you actually have the Axiom M60s and the Songtowers in home at the same time and were you able to do a side by side comparison?

[cop1s]

Edmondwolfman
I had both for 2 weeks , before I sold the Axioms : and the verdict is : the ST and the Axioms are not in the same league . The ST costs the double and it worth it. If you listen rock music , the difference is pretty small , but if you listen jazz , classic , female or male vocal ( like Katie Melua , Eva Cassidy , Jennifer Warnes , Leonard Cohen , etc. ) the difference is huge . The bass are about the same , even if it doesn't have the same tone ; the ST are less boomy . The mids of the Axioms are very poor , however the mids of the ST are their strenght .You can hear many sounds with the ST that you cannot hear with the Axioms  ( the singer's breath , the fingers sliding on the guitar's cord , etc . ) Finally , the Axioms tweeter is very bright , especially at high volume .On the other hand , I can listen the ST all night long at high volume without any ear fatigue .

[edmondwolfman]

Edmondwolfman
I had both for 2 weeks , before I sold the Axioms : and the verdict is : the ST and the Axioms are not in the same league . The ST costs the double and it worth it. If you listen rock music , the difference is pretty small , but if you listen jazz , classic , female or male vocal ( like Katie Melua , Eva Cassidy , Jennifer Warnes , Leonard Cohen , etc. ) the difference is huge . The bass are about the same , even if it doesn't have the same tone ; the ST are less boomy . The mids of the Axioms are very poor , however the mids of the ST are their strenght .You can hear many sounds with the ST that you cannot hear with the Axioms  ( the singer's breath , the fingers sliding on the guitar's cord , etc . ) Finally , the Axioms tweeter is very bright , especially at high volume .On the other hand , I can listen the ST all night long at high volume without any ear fatigue .

Thanks cop. I'm getting a ST itch that is pretty hard to not scratch

I don't think I could go an extra $700 for a ribbon tweeter but was wondering what is the difference in the OW2 and OW4 tweeters? Cop, I see you have wood floors as do I. I wonder if getting the actual woofers up away from the wood floor helps out with the boominess? The Axiom woofers start close to the bottom of the speaker near the floor. I think that may be one of my problems. My seating/listening area is not real far from the speakers and when people are over we are usually behind the sitting area. With the Axiom woofers built so close to the floor and placed up the height of the frame I think the sofa is blocking/absorbing a lot of my sound while at the same time the woofers are reflecting off the wood floor. It looks like with the Songtowers being taller and the actual speakers being near the top that would work better as far as projecting music over the sitting area instead of into it and get more music out into the room