[matt_garman]

I was just wondering if anyone out there owns a set of SongTowers and uses them in a huge, untreated room, and has then placed in a corner?  I know this is sub-optimal conditions for any speaker, but there seems to be a fair amount of commentary suggesting that the SongTowers aren't as sensitive to placement as other speakers.

The main floor of our house is completely open; the main living area is roughly 27x23 (depending on where you start measuring), with 10-foot ceilings, all hardwood floors.  Unfortunately, a corner placement is really all that works for our TV + speaker placement.

Here is a schematic of the living area:


And here is the complete floor plan.

I sent basically the same question directly to Jim, but I thought I'd engage the Salk community as well.

Thank you!
Matt

[Saturn94]

Not sure if this would work for you, but I would be inclined to move the sofa and side tables to the other side of the coffee table and put the media center/speakers on the wall where the sofa/side tables are now.  With this arrangement you would solve the corner placement issue and improve imaging since there wouldn't be any side walls close to the speakers.

If this arrangement is not possible and you are limited to your existing arrangement, I would at least try to address the reflections coming off the wall to the side of the right speaker.

[gkinberg]

I'm sorry I don't have much input on your question but totaly unrelated, I think your schematic is prety slick. What program did you use to prepare it?

Thanks, Garth

[matt_garman]

Not sure if this would work for you, but I would be inclined to move the sofa and side tables to the other side of the coffee table and put the media center/speakers on the wall where the sofa/side tables are now.  With this arrangement you would solve the corner placement issue and improve imaging since there wouldn't be any side walls close to the speakers.

I agree, unfortunately, that wall is almost all windows (basically the whole length of the couch is windows).  I don't want to put the entertainment center in front of them.

If this arrangement is not possible and you are limited to your existing arrangement, I would at least try to address the reflections coming off the wall to the side of the right speaker.

Room treatments have been suggested to me on more than once.    But, so far, I haven't taken the time to learn about them.  Room treatments also bring in more scrutiny with regards to the WAF. 

[matt_garman]

I'm sorry I don't have much input on your question but totaly unrelated, I think your schematic is prety slick. What program did you use to prepare it?

Thanks, Garth

The program is called Xfig.  I'm a Linux/Unix guy, and have used this program a handful of times over the years.  There's probably better software for drawing floorplans, but Xfig is free and I was already familiar with it.  The drawing is only approximately to scale, but for the purpose of this discussion, it's close enough.

[adydula]

I would move the sofa and put the media center there and be able to spread the SongTowers out if needed for soundstage.

Alex

[MaxCast]

I think you'll be fine right where it is.  The kick back from the windows will be your worst enemy, but you really don't have a choice.  I also think the Songtowers will perform great (may want to go with ribbon tweeters) but you will need a bit more power than normal with such a large space.

[scp2]

I have a challenging room myself...comes from making your living room...your listening room.

My concern would be...you are not able to sit in the sweet spot only off axis. That would totally spoil the experience for me.

[MichiganMike]

I have a pair of SongTowers QWT in a very large, open, untreated room with vaulted ceilings (peaks at about 20 feet) in part of the room.  The room is about as large as yours and has large openings extending into other parts of the house.  One of my SongTowers is about 3 feet from a corner with adjacent large glass windows and the other is near a doorway leading into another area of the house.  Far from ideal, but my experience confirms the SongTowers are quite forgiving in placement.  The highs, midrange and bass all sound very natural to me.  I have received more compliments on the sound than any other speaker that I have owned, including some far more expensive.

As to power requirements, until recently I used a Parasound A23 amp with good results.  I never felt this combination was underpowered.  Recently, I switched to McIntosh amps, but I have yet to exceed 50 watts on the meters.

[Mudslide]

I don't know if this will help your particular needs/arrangement, but I have a similar room layout and have used the chairs and couch in a grouping arc around the corner-placed media center.  You could use the corner opposite the entertainment center as a little media library or some such.  Doing so will also enhance the view and cheer of the fireplace.  I have planted one of my subwoofers behind the media center...the other along the opposite (long) wall.

This kind of corner placement undoubtedly will affect any speaker's performance.  It's not an optimal arrangement.  Nevertheless, we must live with the room (and WAF  ) as it is...one does what one must.  But it will still be an enjoyable system!! 

Good luck and send pictures when you're done!

[mchuckp]

Someone recommended the ribbon tweeter.  I own the ribbon tweeter ST and love it.  However, it you are going to be doing a lot of off axis listening, not sure if this is the best choice.  It is a lot more direct in its presentation that a dome. 

[fishinbob]

This kind of corner placement undoubtedly will affect any speaker's performance.  It's not an optimal arrangement.   

This may alter some thinking regarding diagonal speaker layout.  http://www.decware.com/paper14.htm
My situation forced me to do something similar but I have no regrets except for my rather awkward surround layout. 

[matt_garman]

I have a pair of SongTowers QWT in a very large, open, untreated room with vaulted ceilings (peaks at about 20 feet) in part of the room.  The room is about as large as yours and has large openings extending into other parts of the house.  One of my SongTowers is about 3 feet from a corner with adjacent large glass windows and the other is near a doorway leading into another area of the house.  Far from ideal, but my experience confirms the SongTowers are quite forgiving in placement.  The highs, midrange and bass all sound very natural to me.  I have received more compliments on the sound than any other speaker that I have owned, including some far more expensive.

That is very encouraging.  How far away do you sit from the speakers in your setup?  Since I'm on the diagonal, I could easily be 20 feet away from the speakers.

Likewise, how loudly do you listen?

I'm not looking to set SPL records or scare the neighbors.  But I think a speaker should be like an amp---lots of headroom.  The QSC power amp I'll be using should provide plenty of amplifier headroom; I'm looking for the speaker equivalent.  I'd like to be able to fill the big room (well, at least the living area) with sound, and only be at maybe 50% of the speakers max.

I posted a more general question on AVSForum, basically, "what speakers for big room + lousy placement".  Over there, I was getting suggestions for professional/PA-calibur speakers.  So then I start to wonder, when there are people saying I need three or more eight inch drivers per speaker, 100+ dB sensitivity, and kilowatt+ power handling, will the SongTower's really have enough "oomph" to outperform my current Energies?

Thanks again,
Matt

[Bigfishhk]

Matt
I have read your informative and entertaining journey with the Salks and seen the handsome pics. I am ordering a pair of ST's. I also have corner placement about 10" from front wall and 6-12" from side wall..
Are you happy that you ordered front ports?
Dennis Murphy has a post where he liked the ST's at only 8" from front wall so that's interesting.But Jim suggested front ports to be safe, in case of mid-bass boom..
 I feel it compromises the visual elegance a little, and with these speakers the looks are part of the appeal though not the main appeal.. I have heard the ST's at 12" from a wall, with one of them in a corner,  and they were great, though too short a listen to be definitive.
any feedback much appreciated, from your experience with placement in a less than ideal room.
best
TOm

[matt_garman]

I have read your informative and entertaining journey with the Salks and seen the handsome pics. I am ordering a pair of ST's. I also have corner placement about 10" from front wall and 6-12" from side wall..
Are you happy that you ordered front ports?
Dennis Murphy has a post where he liked the ST's at only 8" from front wall so that's interesting.But Jim suggested front ports to be safe, in case of mid-bass boom..
 I feel it compromises the visual elegance a little, and with these speakers the looks are part of the appeal though not the main appeal.. I have heard the ST's at 12" from a wall, with one of them in a corner,  and they were great, though too short a listen to be definitive.
any feedback much appreciated, from your experience with placement in a less than ideal room.
best
TOm

I don't have anything to compare to, really, except the Energies I talked about above.  But I am still happy with the SongTowers in every respect (including the front port).  My one and only "complaint" still stands, and that's having too little time to really enjoy the speakers.  If Jim can fix that for me, he'd truly be a miracle worker! 

But in all seriousness, I try to have music playing pretty much whenever I'm home.  And the sound always brings a smile to my face (even though I'm usually distracted by some other matter).  They just sound good and "full", as I talked about above.  There have been a few rare occasions where I've been able to really sit down and enjoy their sound, without any "domestic" distractions.  And those occasions give me exactly what I set out for, which is just a sound that is "big" enough to fill our wacky living room layout, and great-sounding at the same time.

The aesthetics of the front-port is a matter of personal preference.  I'm indifferent, personally.  I tend to like plain, utilitarian-looking things.  My wife is more concerned with aesthetics, and she doesn't care about the front ports, so it's a non-issue for us.

What are you replacing with the STs?  I'm pretty confident that you're really going to like what you hear (and see).

[Kinger]

If you want front ported, but don't care for the look, you could always ask Jim to put a grill in front of them.  He did that for a pair of front mounted HT2-TL's a while back and I thought they looked fantastic.  There are pictures of them somewhere here in the Salk circle.

[neekomax]

I have a thought... in order to create a better listening position, as well as bring appropriate focus to the fireplace, you could bring couch 1 to about where the coffe table is now, and place it parallel to the media center/ speaker axis. Then, you can put sofa 2 parallel to the fireplace, and facing it. This would form an "L", but with the short part of the L facing the stereo/tv and the long part facing the fireplace. The L would 'float' more in the middle of the room (which is actually nice, considering you have a wall of windows), and be diagonal to the walls (like the fireplace and stereo/tv).

Did I explain that adequately?   

[Bigfishhk]

Thanks for the feedbacks. I had another look at my space and found I had at least 12" so Jim said should be fine with rear ports, so that,s what I,m getting.

 They are honey oak, though the walnuts ones he had for immediate sale almost got me.

I am replacing infinty kappa 8.1 which have been fun, handsome, but hard to drive speakers. With a krell kav400xi , 200 watts pc, still not enough power. However having heard the st,s i don,t think the kappa,s could ever match the trasnparency and refinement of the st,s. I will hold onto them in case i ever have another space for a second system.