Anit-vibration/isolation cones

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Tony1

Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« on: 24 Aug 2008, 05:22 pm »
Has anyone experimented using anti-vibration devices like cones under amps or CD players? I've heard that the improve performace.  There are so many types made out of different material like granite, carbon fiber. 

What interested me in this was someones review on the Bryston website of the BCD-1 saying that it made a difference.

topround

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #1 on: 24 Aug 2008, 08:13 pm »
I have been playing with Black Diamond Racing cones, #3 for my CD player and its external power supply (Lector CDP 7), with great results, I am not really a great believer in this stuff but it really works, experiment with positioning of the cones.
I recently purchased the Mapleshade triplepoint heavy hat vibe killers to place on top of the cdplayer, but it did nothing as far as I can hear. Ive tried them on other components as well but no great results at all.
The BDR cones have really worked great for me, they cost 60 bucks for 3 and come with a money back guarantee, give em a try, if you don't like em send em back :thumb:
I am sending back my Mapleshade stuff, they have a similar return policy. Not trying to knock Mapleshade brass weights, I am sure many people have had great results, but not me.
BDR and Mapleshade both offer money back guarantees which in this crazy hobby is as good as it gets, with so much snake oil being peddled, the guarantee makes you feel good, they must have faith in their products to offer it.\
But give the BDR cones a try, I am pretty sure you will be happy, it just took my CD player to another level, it improved focus and soundstage and cleaned up the upper end a bit. Try #3 for digital.

Mike

nature boy

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #2 on: 24 Aug 2008, 10:17 pm »
Tony,

Here what I have found works best under my CDP, top to botton.  Your results may vary.

Double zip-lock bag filled w/ play sand - CDP - 3 Brass Pointed Cones (8th Nerve) - 2" thick maple block cutting board - 4 rubber/cork/rubber isolation pads (available on Agon $10/set of 4).

Herbie's Black Hole CD mats too!

NB

James Tanner

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #3 on: 25 Aug 2008, 11:47 am »
Hi All,

This is an interesting topic. 

What do the manufacturers of these types of products claim they do?
For instance how does an Isolation Platform solution differ from a Cone setup?  Is it energy storage and dissipation (platform) vs energy drain to a larger mass (cone)?

It kind of reminds me of turntable days when you had some manufactures extolling the benefits of large mass turntables while others supported sprung suspension low mass tables.

james
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2008, 05:44 pm by James Tanner »

ashtarul

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #4 on: 25 Aug 2008, 01:37 pm »
I have to say I'm a skeptic. Maybe they will make a difference on a turntable, where isolation from unwanted vibration is essential, but on a CD player, where a laser beam picks up ones and zeros from a disc, I fail to see the benefit. Unless you live in an earthquake prone area, I can't see isolation cones making the ones and the zeros more one-ish or more zero-ish. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe many professional recording studios have cones under their digital recording equipments. My two-cents worth.
Ash
« Last Edit: 30 Nov 2008, 04:46 pm by ashtarul »

predrag

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #5 on: 25 Aug 2008, 02:00 pm »
I agree with ashtarul. :thumb:
If it was something that important it would already be in seriously built components.
I would like to see unbiased lab measurements of such devices and not only rumours.
My gear is on a heavy purpose built 80kg rack that is pretty inert and I give up here.
 

 

launche

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #6 on: 25 Aug 2008, 04:05 pm »
I have tried and still use some of the various devices (Gingko, maple wood block, Symposium, Black Diamond cones etc...)  they do make an audible difference but not major in my case, just more fine tuning to taste I guess.  Whether they were making up for some negative somewhere else in the system or not, but I heard differences.  If I was using a purpose made rack or stands then I would be less likely to use such devices.  I have mostly moved to various forms of wood, granite and cork and use the other devices less now.

I have especially noticed differences under any component that has moving parts.
Now if I had issues with my system I would obviously look at room treatments and electrical delivery before using other tweaks as that's where my biggest non-component gains have come from.

Now given that one can likely find some granite for cheap or free, If just starting in this area, I'd happily go that route with granite and some of those cork/rubber footers and call it a day.  Everyday, I drive by a graveyard (creepy I know) and they have slaps of 5 inch+ granite that the groundskeeper was going to give me for free but I don't need it. 

Builder sites, local Habitat for Humanity, salvage yards etc... usually have granite remnants there as well, I can get granite easy in my area.  I've got chunks lying around that I collected.  Also concrete pavers from Home Depot may work if it fits your system, maybe not SOTA for the audiophile but if you want cheap and effective isolation, maybe not vibration draining or tuned isolation but good isolation none the less.  If I needed something under a big amp. or speakers I would go this route first, concrete atop inexpensive spikes or cork/rubber pads.  If you can find some 1/2 inch thick or more acrylic that's good too.

Try a big concrete paver (you can spray paint it or cover it in a fabric with spray adhesive) below (and atop) your subwoofer (mass loading I guess) made a nice difference to my ears.  Also Plasi-clay or mortite on components with moving/spinning parts works well too.  The better your system is put together, the less likley these devices will make substantial improvements IMO, unless we are talking about specific tuned devices in the more expensive isolation/vibration products.  In many cases I think these devices may be just lowering or changing the resonant freq. and that's the audible difference I heard and that may be achieved more economically with accessible off the shelf products, but I'm not even close to well educated on these matters, just my opinion.

thorman

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #7 on: 25 Aug 2008, 05:40 pm »
I found on Cd players the Audiopoints ( 1" ) brass cones work the best under my Meridian cd player...Tried Vibrapods ( yuk ) ..Wood Blocks         ( nope ) ...The Audiopoints are the only tweek that worked without negatives for me...........

rajacat

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #8 on: 25 Aug 2008, 06:24 pm »
Cork/neoprene pads for cheap!
http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/vibrationpads.htm

Actually there are some products here that you'll see on audiofool sites for a large premium price.

launche

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #9 on: 25 Aug 2008, 07:36 pm »
Cork/neoprene pads for cheap!
http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/vibrationpads.htm

Actually there are some products here that you'll see on audiofool sites for a large premium price.

Yes, these are what I use in my system.  a good place to start cheaply and may be all you need.  Have open ears, what may seem like a dulling of the top end may be a reduction of some top end distortion or highlighting. As always, YMMV.

Here's a review if it helps.  The site also has several reviews of similar products as well.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isolpads/isolpads.html

James Tanner

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #10 on: 25 Aug 2008, 07:56 pm »
Hi Joey (launche),

Love the picture (see above).

Is that you trying to listen in Mono? :lol:
I don't see any cork under your head? :lol:

james

THE_ANSWERS

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #11 on: 25 Aug 2008, 09:48 pm »
I have to say I'm a skeptic. Maybe they will make a difference on a turntable, where isolation from unwanted vibrations is essential, but on a CD player, where a laser beam picks up ones and zeros from a disc, I fail to see the benefit. Unless you live in an earthquake prone area, I can't see isolation cones making the ones and the zeros more one-ish or more zero-ish. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe many professional recording studios have cones under their digital recording equipments. My two-cents worth.
Ash

yeah    save your money and go to the local arts and crafts store  .     they have foam pads of any color thatll do the trick for less than two bucks

if you cant hear skipping or lots of data errors than the data is getting there ... people still think like cds are analog or something !!!!   data is either error free or not    you cant get the same data to sound any different unless there is a severe clocking problem and nothing has that since the eighties.

    there are so many companies with rip offs just waiting for the same kind of guy that would buy a piece of toast with jesus face on it    a sucker born every minute like pt barnum would say    remember the green marker to make your cds sound better ??????   does anyone remember that ??????  don't we learn from these lessons ???????

Tony1

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #12 on: 25 Aug 2008, 11:19 pm »
For anyone interested I found a site that reviews some isolation devices

http://www.gcaudio.com/products/reviews/infoisolationoverview_3.html

Thanks for the input.  I'll try some of the less expensive foam pads, cork etc to see how they work. I may try one of the better isolation devices as most companies give a 30 day money back guarantee.


KS

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #13 on: 25 Aug 2008, 11:56 pm »
I have to say I'm a skeptic. Maybe they will make a difference on a turntable, where isolation from unwanted vibrations is essential, but on a CD player, where a laser beam picks up ones and zeros from a disc, I fail to see the benefit. Unless you live in an earthquake prone area, I can't see isolation cones making the ones and the zeros more one-ish or more zero-ish. Ash

The problem isn't with the ones and zeros but with the timing between them.

Also note this item in Wikipedia (if true) about Microphonic vibrations.  Simply stated, microphonic vibration creates unwanted voltages in electronic parts by piezo electric action.  If the vibration is damped or decoupled these unwanted voltages in the signal path are lessened.

THE_ANSWERS

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #14 on: 26 Aug 2008, 01:37 pm »
I have to say I'm a skeptic. Maybe they will make a difference on a turntable, where isolation from unwanted vibrations is essential, but on a CD player, where a laser beam picks up ones and zeros from a disc, I fail to see the benefit. Unless you live in an earthquake prone area, I can't see isolation cones making the ones and the zeros more one-ish or more zero-ish. Ash

The problem isn't with the ones and zeros but with the timing between them.

Also note this item in Wikipedia (if true) about Microphonic vibrations.  Simply stated, microphonic vibration creates unwanted voltages in electronic parts by piezo electric action.  If the vibration is damped or decoupled these unwanted voltages in the signal path are lessened.

piezo electric action??????  cds are   d i g i t a l  not analog
the whole point of digital is noise immunity
you sound like a great target customer for th guys that sell audio snake oil

miklorsmith

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #15 on: 26 Aug 2008, 02:08 pm »
Boy, you sure have all THE_ANSWERS.  Where have we been all this time without you?

Occam

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #16 on: 26 Aug 2008, 03:34 pm »
Rather than responding to KS's comment -
Quote
The problem isn't with the ones and zeros but with the timing between them.
with THE_ANSWERS, you might consider A_QUESTION. You might actually learn something.

FWIW

THE_ANSWERS

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #17 on: 26 Aug 2008, 04:20 pm »
Rather than responding to KS's comment -
Quote
The problem isn't with the ones and zeros but with the timing between them.
with THE_ANSWERS, you might consider A_QUESTION. You might actually learn something.

FWIW

if you want to waste your money on smoke&mirrors go right ahead    watch out for all the scams out there   the are a-plenty here !!!!!!!!!

here are some:  cd damping pads    anti-vibration platforms except for record players    reclocking devices between cd transportand dac    directional audio cables with batteries in them     10 gage speaker cable      power reconditioners but not all of them    i can probably come up with more but may be wasting  my time on gullable people if they are outraged by my pointing these out

of course if youre selling this stuff the last thing you want is for people to be n to you

miklorsmith

Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #18 on: 26 Aug 2008, 04:27 pm »
I'm not against anybody making any point if they're willing to back their opinions with fact or reasoned conjecture.  Saying "X product is a scam" isn't stating fact or following logic, that's strictly opinion as clearly there are lots of folks that disagree.  Frankly, most of the folks that agree are on different forums but you probably wouldn't know that since you just showed up last week.

Making a reasoned opinion for serious discussion is great, whether in support or against some product or idea.  Calling entire sections of the industry "scams" without any support and intimating that customers of same are gullible falls cleanly within the modern phenomenon of thread crapping, IMO.

rajacat

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Re: Anit-vibration/isolation cones
« Reply #19 on: 26 Aug 2008, 05:36 pm »
Rather than responding to KS's comment -
Quote
The problem isn't with the ones and zeros but with the timing between them.
with THE_ANSWERS, you might consider A_QUESTION. You might actually learn something.

FWIW

if you want to waste your money on smoke&mirrors go right ahead    watch out for all the scams out there   the are a-plenty here !!!!!!!!!

here are some:  cd damping pads    anti-vibration platforms except for record players    reclocking devices between cd transportand dac    directional audio cables with batteries in them     10 gage speaker cable      power reconditioners but not all of them    i can probably come up with more but may be wasting  my time on gullable people if they are outraged by my pointing these out

of course if youre selling this stuff the last thing you want is for people to be n to you


Do you have something against complete sentences and proper punctuation? :scratch:

-Roy