Dealer Direct

SHV · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 06:21 pm »

" I would have to give it some thought but the internet has changed everything.So in my opinion the current model of most companies has to change or they will go out of business. I have a few ideas but they are just that. One would really have to think it through."
*******
Bryston made the decision to support their dealer network by essentially shutting down the Bryston "gray market" six years ago. I think that there is only one "approved" internet seller in the US.

Steve

Alpha10 · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 06:26 pm »

In the UK we have the issue of our equipment (in Bryston's case) going first through a distributer and then a dealer, each, rightly taking their pound of flesh, on top of government taxes. The result though is that we end up paying, for example with the SP3 the equivalent of $16,000 (US), which IMHO is not a viable price for the product, as brilliant as it is, in the UK. In reality I speak to me dealer, who phones PMC who talks to Brystons, the product arrives, PMC do not open the box they ship it straight to my dealer (no value added), who hands it to me when I hand over the money. It is now the 21st century, why can I not just phone/online portal one of your guys James and pay my money, sit back and wait for the mail man?

Steps off soapbox...

budt · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 06:26 pm »

Quote from: SHV on 10 Dec 2011, 06:21 pm

" I would have to give it some thought but the internet has changed everything.So in my opinion the current model of most companies has to change or they will go out of business. I have a few ideas but they are just that. One would really have to think it through."
*******
Bryston made the decision to support their dealer network by essentially shutting down the Bryston "gray market" six years ago. I think that there is only one "approved" internet seller in the US.

Steve

We can all use the internet to find dealers and then shop price. So even if it isn't an "interent dealer" we can still use it to get the best deal.So I really see little difference.

1ZIP · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 06:46 pm »

It might be something Bryston would want to consider in limited situations. For instance where there is no local dealer. For me to demo gear involves a 240 mile one way trip, next nearest is 280 miles one way. There is a distributor nearby, they have no gear onsite. But they are willing to order from Bryston and have the gear shipped directly to me. However, after that they step out of the picture and any problems are handled directly, by me, with Bryston.

I have no problem in buying this way because I know what to expect from Bryston gear and customer service so a demo is not that important. But for those unfamiliar with Bryston gear and in an area not served by a local dealer a demo program like Magnpan's might be a nice option.

James Tanner · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 06:47 pm »

Quote from: Alpha10 on 10 Dec 2011, 06:26 pm

In the UK we have the issue of our equipment (in Bryston's case) going first through a distributer and then a dealer, each, rightly taking their pound of flesh, on top of government taxes. The result though is that we end up paying, for example with the SP3 the equivalent of $16,000 (US), which IMHO is not a viable price for the product, as brilliant as it is, in the UK. In reality I speak to me dealer, who phones PMC who talks to Brystons, the product arrives, PMC do not open the box they ship it straight to my dealer (no value added), who hands it to me when I hand over the money. It is now the 21st century, why can I not just phone/online portal one of your guys James and pay my money, sit back and wait for the mail man?

Steps off soapbox...

Hi

I think the fear of losing a market base for their products prevents most manufacturers from going down that path. The duties and taxes would still need to be paid, service issues would be long distance, exposure and reviews in those countries, audio shows, etc. are all expenses that remain.

James

SHV · « **Reply #25 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 06:56 pm »

"The result though is that we end up paying, for example with the SP3 the equivalent of $16,000 (US),"
**********
If you fly to NYC, buy an SP3 for ~$9500, fly home and pay VAT, will Bryston honor warranty?

Steve

James Tanner · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 07:26 pm »

Quote from: SHV on 10 Dec 2011, 06:56 pm

"The result though is that we end up paying, for example with the SP3 the equivalent of $16,000 (US),"
**********
If you fly to NYC, buy an SP3 for ~$9500, fly home and pay VAT, will Bryston honor warranty?

Steve

Hi Steve,

Typically we would but the warranty is in the country purchased from because you can not expect the distributor in the country you take it to to be responsible for something they did not sell.

I have to say folks it is really a tough call these days. Bryston is in business because 'you the customer' purchase our products and the traditional access to market has always been for us through specialty dealers. I wrestle everyday with the question - what next

james

SHV · « **Reply #27 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 08:00 pm »

"I have to say folks it is really a tough call these days. Bryston is in business because 'you the customer' purchase our products and the traditional access to market has always been for us through specialty dealers. I wrestle everyday with the question - what next.."
******
I would assume that an "out of country purchase" would be handled they way that I deal with my rare Bryston repair issues. I contact Bryston, box it up and ship at my expense. Currently, in the US at least, Bryston has struck a fair balance supporting local dealers; having an internet seller with a 30 day return and selling at MSRP.

Steve

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #28 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 09:39 pm »

From the link:

"Adding mail-order houses is another way for manufacturers to split their product line and try to get more exposure. Again, a bad idea. Dealers resent being the showroom and doing the demo for someone operating out of a warehouse."

I got accosted a few months ago on this very circle for saying the exact same thing regarding Bryston's relationship with Audio Advisor. Is this good advice still falling on deaf ears here? This dealer-direct option is far better than what Bryston, and many other companies for that matter, is currently doing.

SHV · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 10:03 pm »

"I got accosted a few months ago on this very circle for saying the exact same thing regarding Bryston's relationship with Audio Advisor."
*******
What are the options for a consumer with no local dealer? I bought my BDA/BDP from Audioadvisor. I would have no problem buying online from a small dealer but which one? I have read online about how I got a good deal from dealer X or Y but how do I know about reliability, etc? With Audioadvisor, I pay full price but have 30 day return and no surprises.

Steve

James Tanner · « **Reply #30 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 12:20 am »

I really guess it comes down to what value the dealer/ditributor has in the purchasing loop in the eyes of the consumer.

james

budt · « **Reply #31 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 12:44 am »

Well, unless the dealer stocks a lot of different highend gear they don't really play much part any more. The consumer usually has to "take a chance" and order it from the dealer anyway. When this is the case( which it usually is) then what purpose do they really serve?
The only way the "brick and mortar" works is if the dealer has some serious gear. Those dealers are very few and far between.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 01:11 am »

Quote from: Phil A on 10 Dec 2011, 05:52 pm

Many custom installers are renting places in traditional non-retail locations like office buildings/industrial parks where the rent is a bit cheaper. Not just in the audio industry. You see people selling hot tubs and a variety of other goods that way. The internet is just a fact of life whether you like it or not. So I think as a dealer today, you have to take that into account. Make money on services, rent a cheaper place, etc. There may be some markets that support the old way of doing things but probably not the majority. Some dealers even work out of their houses. Many dealers just want to live in the past. If I am going to buy a $10k list amp that I can get on the internet for $7.5k, the dealer needs to recognize that $10k might have been OK if were were living in the world of 15 years ago, but not today. He doesn't have to do $7.5k, that would not be doing him justice. But he does need to recognize reality.

Here's some reality: re- rent a cheaper place
There are two Bryston dealers in my city. Neither is working out of particularly commodious surroundings. One's in an old house converted into retail space ( I believe at one time it used to be a pizza joint ) in my neighborhood. The other is in a light industrial area down the street from a cardboard factory. Neither is exactly a guilded palace of sinful decadence. Can't say what it's like elsewhere.
re - work out of your house
Some dealers who would gladly lower their overhead by working out of their houses are not allowed to by manufacturers who insist that the dealer maintain a storefront. Manley is one and James, correct me if I am wrong but does Bryston not make the same stipulation? I'm sure that there are others as well...

re - water in your wine
Some dealers who would trade volume for margin and drop their prices in order to shift more units can also get into hot water with manufacturers for cutting prices. That throttles competition in terms of pricing. So what do you do? Sell your service? It does not seem that people are willing to pay a premium for that either when the rubber actually hits the road. They expect it as part of the package.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's gotta be tough for dealers these days - caught in a squeeze between people who want rock-bottom pricing and manufacturers who increase prices to maintain their margins and leave it to the dealers to try and justify those increasing prices . I am aware of the arguments regarding R&D, engineering, warranty coverage etc. but if audio is anything like the industry I work in, manufacturers get their money no matter what - it's up to the distributers/dealers to find ways to work with that and it can be a real challenge. But then again, things are tough all over...One thing is clear though - if the high-end audio industry does shift to an Internet-based marketing model, it will make for interesting times for all involved.

D.D.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 01:14 am »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 10 Dec 2011, 09:39 pm

From the link:

"Adding mail-order houses is another way for manufacturers to split their product line and try to get more exposure. Again, a bad idea. Dealers resent being the showroom and doing the demo for someone operating out of a warehouse."

I got accosted a few months ago on this very circle for saying the exact same thing regarding Bryston's relationship with Audio Advisor. Is this good advice still falling on deaf ears here? This dealer-direct option is far better than what Bryston, and many other companies for that matter, is currently doing.

If you check with the Parasound website, The Audio Advisor is the only authorized internet dealer for them. Why would dealers sell anything that The Audio Advisor sells? Especially if they can ship the products you sell to your area? And to show you how greedy Audio Advisor is, not only are they selling through their name on Amazon, but they also are selling under Kraft Street Audio. Kraft street is the address of The Audio Advisor.

Since the 80's, I am sure every dealer in the US has lost customers because of them and have cussed them. Back in the 80's, Audio Advisor discounted most of their items by 20%.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #34 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 01:29 am »

The Audio Advisor also advertises themselves as the only authorized online Vincent Audio dealer. Do you see a internet monopoly going on here?

PRELUDE · « **Reply #35 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 02:04 am »

I do not think the dealer direct would be the best way to solve the problem.Some manufactures went direct and succeed and some think that is not thier way to do business.
After all this years being in different type of jobs I do understand that in order to stay in business must have or make a minimum of the profit.
Now, Who is under more pressure the dealer or manufacture? I think the manufacture is in more pressure because thy have to sell,build,research,cost of material,employee and etc....
Now, dealer wants everything out of nothing.How they ask for %40 up to %60 profit but they do not want to have at least one out of each model for demo for customer? we know the minimum of the profit to stay in business but what is the cost of doing the business?

James Tanner · « **Reply #36 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 02:10 am »

Quote from: PRELUDE on 11 Dec 2011, 02:04 am

I do not think the dealer direct would be the best way to solve the problem.Some manufactures went direct and succeed and some think that is not thier way to do business.
After all this years being in different type of jobs I do understand that in order to stay in business must have or make a minimum of the profit.
Now, Who is under more pressure the dealer or manufacture? I think the manufacture is in more pressure because thy have to sell,build,research,cost of material,employee and etc....
Now, dealer wants everything out of nothing.How they ask for %40 up to %60 profit but they do not want to have at least one out of each model for demo for customer? we know the minimum of the profit to stay in business but what is the cost of doing the business?

Yes I think in the past the selling relationship was between the 'Manufacturer and the Dealer' and then the 'Dealer and the Customer'. The internet has changed all that - now the customer is king and I spend much more time discussing audio with our customers than I do our dealers/distributors at this point.

james

budt · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 02:27 am »

Quote from: James Tanner on 11 Dec 2011, 02:10 am

Yes I think in the past the selling relationship was between the 'Manufacturer and the Dealer' and then the 'Dealer and the Customer'. The internet has changed all that - now the customer is king and I spend much more time discussing audio with our customers than I do our dealers/distributors at this point.

james

Yes, the key point is the internet has changed the way we do business. So business models must take the internet into account.
Also, since the big scare of 2008 many people are holding onto their money or paying off household debt etc. I predict things will pick up again in a few years( I think about 3). The key is to survive till then..

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #38 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 03:03 am »

Quote from: PRELUDE on 11 Dec 2011, 02:04 am

I do not think the dealer direct would be the best way to solve the problem.Some manufactures went direct and succeed and some think that is not thier way to do business.
After all this years being in different type of jobs I do understand that in order to stay in business must have or make a minimum of the profit.
Now, Who is under more pressure the dealer or manufacture? I think the manufacture is in more pressure because thy have to sell,build,research,cost of material,employee and etc....
Now, dealer wants everything out of nothing.How they ask for %40 up to %60 profit but they do not want to have at least one out of each model for demo for customer? we know the minimum of the profit to stay in business but what is the cost of doing the business?

OK, let's work that idea through of having one of everything on hand for prospects to have access to for demos. Here's my model:
My imaginary dealer sells Bryston. He will need to carry in stock: a) 2BSST2 b) 3BSST2 c) 4BSST2 d) 6BSST2 e) a pair of 7BSST2 f) 9BSST2 g) 14BSST2 h) a pair of 28BSST2 i) B60R j) B100 k) BCD-1 k) BDA-1 l) BDP-1 m) SP2 n) SP3 o) BP 1.5 p) BP6 q) BP16 r) BP26 s) MPS-2 t) BIT 5 u) BIT 15 v) BIT 20 w) 10B STD x) 10B SUB y) four different speaker switching boxes and of course, you'll want to see what everything looks like in black and in silver so everything times two . Plus all the cables in every available length and termination option , the handset and the internal DAC and phono stage. And there's a headphone amp coming ( in black and silver ). OK, easy as pie. Oh wait...better have the commercial stuff on hand too just in case someone wants to see it...
My dealer quickly realizes that not everyone appreciates how Bryston gear sounds and he doesn't want to lose sales so he takes on oh, say McIntosh as the alternate. I ain't typing all that so here's the website: http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Pages/Home.aspx#
and you want him to be able to offer the full line so he's gotta stock all that, too.
Now not everyone has Bryston or Mac in the budget so he'll need an entry-level line as well. NAD sounds good so he's putting in an order for all this:
http://nadelectronics.com/home
My imaginary dealer is starting to develop an anxiety disorder. He'll have to worry about that later though because he's gotta get some speakers into the shop - say PMC:
http://www.pmc-speakers.com/productCats.php?mode=productCats&cid=4
24 wonderful speakers, each in several wonderful finishes and he's gonna stock 'em all for you.
My imaginary dealer is developing a drinking problem. But he'll still need to take on another line of speakers because some folks won't see these as value for money or they'll want something that comes in purple or...And he still needs a couple of cable lines, stands, turntables for the vinyl people, maybe some audiophile music, tweaks...
What about tubes? Not everybody wants solid state,right ? Better take on Manley in case they don't like the Mac stuff...
http://www.manley.com/hifi_gear.php
My imaginary dealer is in therapy now. And on heroin...
He's getting calls from his suppliers telling him to get his numbers up and he's getting calls from his banker telling him to get his other numbers down...
And you're standing there asking why you can't get the Bryston for the price of the NAD...and threatening to shop it around on the Internet...

My imaginary dealer just burned the joint down for the insurance money.

D.D.

James Tanner · « **Reply #39 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 03:19 am »

DD -

James