AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: AvsFan on 7 May 2020, 11:59 pm
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Well I finally settled on an amp for my new Omega Super 3 HO's. The Alan Eaton 45 SET amp. I am VERY much looking forward to the combo. Thank you to Jan-Michael for the suggestion and answering all my questions. I am sure this will be the final frontier for my two channel music system. I am just going to do it right the first time and not think about it. But Alan is in the process of building it now and I will post pictures of the progress. My Omega's will be in next Wed! Initial picture.
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Here is what the final product will look like. I think it will be both audibly and visually stunning! What do you guys think?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208556)
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Here is a link to the information about the Eaton 45. Some nice reading!
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/alan-eaton-se45.html
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208558)
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Looking good!
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Very exciting! That vintage iron and 45 tube makes for mighty musical amp. The purple red combo looks sharp!
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Give them LOTS of time to break in. The amp will already be largely run in but will settle in after being used daily for a couple of weeks. The speakers are another story. They will need at least 100 hours before they become fun to listen to. If I were in your position - and I have been - I would try an accelerated break in for the speakers. The 45 SET will not be able to do this for you. I would place the speakers face to face connected to an amp that can play fairly loudly (80-90dB) for long periods of time. Throw a few blankets over the speakers and put some bass-heavy music on repeat every day when you go to work. Do this for two or three weeks and you’re well into the break in. Another trick is to hook them up to your HT or TV to run in when listening to the news or mindless TV.
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Luckily my speakers were well broken-in when I received the amp. When I first put the the omegas in service it was pretty unpleasant at times. Sure there were some wonderful you are there moments but it took them a solid month to start showing themselves. And continued to improve long after. As Roscoe mentioned, the amp will certainly need plenty of time too. At three weeks any bit of grain was gone and the highs became sublime. I suggest ordering toobs sooner than later, Brent Jesse or Vintage tube services. Run the amp direct from the source for a while to really get to know the sound. Then tinker away Jeff!
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I can't agree w/ JM more. I would have the new tubes on hand before the amp arrives.
I got my 45's from vintage tube services also. I got the new rectifiers and input tubes from ebay. It would be easier to just get all from vts, but I happy with how my tubes worked out. I went with some NOS 5692 (sylvania/rca I think) and holy crap are they fantastic. They were far better than the 6SN7's (sylvania I think) that I was able to audition.
I am betting the 45's sound better with the Omega's than with my Zu's. The Omega's will be easier to drive.
I'm exicted for your journey!
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Here is what the final product will look like. I think it will be both audibly and visually stunning! What do you guys think?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208556)
Hey! That's my amp! :icon_lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208587)
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^ that amp is groovy. Which speakers are you using JTF?
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^ that amp is groovy. Which speakers are you using JTF?
Yeah, can't wait, I pick it up Monday. I have Zu Omens and PBN monitors at the moment, and a pair of Spatial X5s on order. I'm not expecting this amp to pair well with the PBNs, and I'll only have a short time with the Zu's as I've got those listed for sale. So, if it doesn't play nice with the X5s I'll have to pick up something else.
I'm thinking about getting a black box adapter from ampsandsound, so I can use my headphones with it as well. Does anyone have any experience with that or something similar?
J
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Fun stuff! I went with the Emission Labs 45 solid-plates for my Korneff. They made a noticeable difference in high end, low end and even output compared to the admittedly very tired 45 tubes that came with the amp.
Love the colors you chose.
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Those spatials look great. I am not sure which ones I heard at a show but they did sound wonderful. Hopefully the little SET can get them to sing for ya. You picking it up from Alan?
Brad - neat on those EL 45’s. Do they change the sonic signature of the amp or still sounds like a 45 amp? Dang they are expensive :duh:
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Still sounds like a 45. They are light years better than the worn out pair I had, made it sound like a new amp.
I haven't heard the EML mesh plates. And I saw where Emission has a new version called the 45B, that can make more power if the amp is configured for it.
My 2 wpc are plenty.
Looking forward to your impressions when the full system is in place.
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I may JM, I'm only an hour away from him.
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Hey! That's my amp! :icon_lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208587)
Did you just get that amp? Alan said that was the first time he did that color.
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I requested that red and the style of knobs used. I'll have it early this coming week, he just finished it up on Wednesday. I'm either going to drive up to his place to pick it up or he's mailing it out Monday.
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I requested that red and the style of knobs used. I'll have it early this coming week, he just finished it up on Wednesday. I'm either going to drive up to his place to pick it up or he's mailing it out Monday.
Well that color is spectacular! I saw that and have to have it. I didn't think it was sold yet but I guess so! Nice buy! I have a feeling these amps are very special and once he stops making them, will be in high demand and the few of us lucky to own one will be happy campers. I don't know how long he has been building this specific amp, but he won't do it forever and I am sure prices will start to go up on them. He should be charging a lot more than he does.
I do wish he had a purple, that matched my speakers but the red will make for a very eye popping and colorful system. I think he will be painting mine this weekend. Here is my update. Chassis sanded.
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Looking good!
You're just down the road Kray. We will have to get together at some point and listen to each others systems. I still have my ZU's and once I have everything for the Omega system, will be moving my Magnepan system downstairs to the living room. It will be fun having 3 drastically different systems. And the thing is, well at least, so far, none of them are "better" than the others, just different.
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Hey! That's my amp! :icon_lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208587)
Did you get it yet?
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Wednesday
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Wednesday
So this Wed right?
And here is an update of mine.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208790)
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So this Wed right?
Yah, tomorrow
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Yah, tomorrow
Scratch that, it's here.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208808)
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That’s a lQQker!
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You're just down the road Kray. We will have to get together at some point and listen to each others systems. I still have my ZU's and once I have everything for the Omega system, will be moving my Magnepan system downstairs to the living room. It will be fun having 3 drastically different systems. And the thing is, well at least, so far, none of them are "better" than the others, just different.
For sure! Would love to get together and compare. Liked my Oliver Sayes 45 so much I’m having him build me a matching preamp, as my 45 is amp only.
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Scratch that, it's here.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208808)
Great for you - looks terrific!
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I run my Eaton 45’s w Zu DW. It sounds great. I think the low end suffers a little bit. They aren’t a super easy load. But they do sound good. I really want some x5’s but I wondered how they would do with the 1.5 watts. I will be excited to hear how they work out for you. I want to hear JM’s pairing. I bet these and Omegas are a match made I heaven.
I have a new first watt amp coming in. Next step is to track down a preamp for it. I am guessing the first watt amp would mate well with the spatials. I hope the 45’s do also. I am excited to hear your experience’
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Scratch that, it's here.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208808)
Nice! It is a looker! And I bet it’s quite the singer as well! Can’t wait to hear your impressions. Alan said my amp should be done by tomorrow.
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I run my Eaton 45’s w Zu DW. It sounds great. I think the low end suffers a little bit. They aren’t a super easy load. But they do sound good. I really want some x5’s but I wondered how they would do with the 1.5 watts. I will be excited to hear how they work out for you. I want to hear JM’s pairing. I bet these and Omegas are a match made I heaven.
I have a new first watt amp coming in. Next step is to track down a preamp for it. I am guessing the first watt amp would mate well with the spatials. I hope the 45’s do also. I am excited to hear your experience’
I bet it sounds great with the ZU's! I ran a Decware with my DW's, then a Volt+ then a NuForce STA-200 and then finally a Digital Amplifier Company STM. The nice thing about the ZU's, is that they play well with all kinds of amplifiers, they're not picky at all but more power for sure brought them to life. At the end, with that STM, I was giving them 125 watts per channel. They loved it and the bass was the best I ever heard from them.
It's quite the opposite with these new Omega's, low wattage and intimate, tube wattage is makes these things sing. I think the Omega's and Eaton 45 are a combination made for one another. I will soon find out. But systems are all about synergy
What type of pre-amp are you looking for?
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For sure! Would love to get together and compare. Liked my Oliver Sayes 45 so much I’m having him build me a matching preamp, as my 45 is amp only.
I am game! I think the low watt 45 and Omega's will be completely different from what I am used to with the ZU's and Maggie's.
When will the pre-amp be done? My custom pre-amp and cables shipped today! Did I show you the pre-amp that Jesse built me over at Pine Tree Audio?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208837)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208838)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208851)
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Updated photos.
Looking good. I like how they're all a little bit different from each other.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208841)
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I am game! I think the low watt 45 and Omega's will be completely different from what I am used to with the ZU's and Maggie's.
When will the pre-amp be done? My custom pre-amp and cables shipped today! Did I show you the pre-amp that Jesse built me over at Pine Tree Audio?
Nope. Let’s see that preamp!
Mine is about a month out
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All a little different. It’s pretty neat seeing your amp being personally built.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208843)
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Looking good. I like how they're all a little bit different from each other.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208841)
Unique and one of a kind although they all probably sound about the same. But I like something that different. Probably an amp I will keep for the rest of my life and pass it down to the kids.
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Nope. Let’s see that preamp!
Mine is about a month out
This pre-amp just shipped yesterday. It was initially built to go with my Magnepan and Digital Amplifier Company equipment, but change of plans on that as I will most likely use it in this Omega, Eaton 45 system.
The guy's name is Jesse and his company is Pine Tree Audio. He builds pre-amps and cables. Here is the amp and power cords he just shipped yesterday. He built me some XLR cables too.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208853)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208854)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208855)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208856)
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very Nice!! a 45 amp is my next tryout.
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^ looks like you have some wonderful amps sir!
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^ looks like you have some wonderful amps sir!
Well thanks to your suggestion! I appreciate the guidance. :D
It should sound superb.
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AVSFan
I have no clue on the preamp. One that sounds good and doesn't cost a fortune.
I want to hear a passive, a tube & a solid-state and just learn.
I know I am a fan of 12SL7/6SL7 for input tubes. That much I do know.
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AVSFan
I have no clue on the preamp. One that sounds good and doesn't cost a fortune.
I want to hear a passive, a tube & a solid-state and just learn.
I know I am a fan of 12SL7/6SL7 for input tubes. That much I do know.
I’m using a Khozmo Acoustic Passive pre with amp, while my tube based matching preamp is being built and pleasantly surprised.
One thing to learn is impedance and sensitively matching for your pre and amp. Example I had a great TAD-150 tube pre based on 12AT7/12AX7 and it caused too much hum with my amp. It worked beautifully with other amps but not my 45 Yamamoto based amp. Oliver said the Yamamoto doesn’t need much gain at all (if any) and 6db was about max he recommended. So going with a 6AH4 based preamp
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Very good point about sensitivity matching. Noise or hum that is barely audible on 90dB speakers may be objectionable with 96dB speakers. My Dennis Had amp both needs a preamp and is not 100% silent. Consequently it works better with medium-high efficiency speakers (20 wpc and 90dB is a good combo in my room). On the other hand, my Oliver Sayes/FI 421A SET has an input sensitivity of 0.65V and is D-E-A-D quiet. I only use a unity gain tube preamp for the remote control. My DAC puts out about 2.5V, so there is not only no need for gain there is no room for it.
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I have no clue on the preamp. One that sounds good and doesn't cost a fortune.
I want to hear a passive, a tube & a solid-state and just learn.
I know it's Schiit but the Freya+ does all of those things in a single unit. You can switch between passive, jfet and tube buffer. I just sold one, I had it for about 9 months. Really good for the price.
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Alan informed me that he is breaking in my amp all day today. Making sure that everything is working the way it's supposed to before shipping tomorrow.
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:D
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Last picture before shipping. I went with the round knobs.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208927)
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Looking good Jeff
These 45 amps are so beautifully simple. Especially when you see the guts and realize the beauty in the circuit.
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Last picture before shipping. I went with the round knobs.
Looks good AvsFan. I saw your amp in person this morning. I drove up to his workshop to get a nick in the paint touched up and to pick up a pair of KG4s. Incidently, he just sent me a video of your amp playing on another pair of Klipsch, I let him know he sent it to the wrong person.
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Looks good AvsFan. I saw your amp in person this morning. I drove up to his workshop to get a nick in the paint touched up and to pick up a pair of KG4s. Incidently, he just sent me a video of your amp playing on another pair of Klipsch, I let him know he sent it to the wrong person.
As long as it sounded good to you. :D
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I’m jumping back onto the 45 SET amp bandwagon. Years ago (ca. 1997 or so) I owned a direct coupled 45 amp and foolishly let it go. With all the talk about the Eaton 45 amp and Super 3 HO Monitors, I decided to jump back in.
I bought a Korneff-style 45 SET built by Oliver Sayes using the same iron set as Eaton. It is a two stage amp rather than the SRPP of Eaton so it needs a higher gain preamp which I can fortunately provide. It will be interesting to hear how this compares with memories of over 20 years ago.
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Do you guys have any complaints about stereo separation? Another amp builder has said that shared filament heater for his single chassis amps will only provide about 40db of separation. Any complaints or input?
BTW, mine is shipping from Alan today.
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That sounds interesting. Not sure if it is true.
I fired up the Korneff 45 clone. The Korneff uses a 6J5 driver (1/2 6SN7) instead of the SRPP 6SN7 of the Eaton amp. It has one less gain stage and it shows. My unity gain preamp could not drive it to anywhere near full power. I will need to go active.
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Do you guys have any complaints about stereo separation? Another amp builder has said that shared filament heater for his single chassis amps will only provide about 40db of separation. Any complaints or input?
BTW, mine is shipping from Alan today.
So, the heaters of for tubes in both channels are run off the same secondary winding. I don’t do that and have not compared to using separate windings. Remember that these are indirectly heated tubes... is it being suggested there is some coupling of signal between channels through the heaters? I suspect additional contributors...
Now, if tubes were sharing a local PS capacitor or, if memory serves, cathode circuit between channels that was popularised by some some builders a decade or so ago or mediocre grounding.
Anyway, some builders argue that stereo separation is over-rated or that extreme separation sounds artificial. I suspect it comes down to personal preference.
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Okay. I just saw the info given on the 'Haven. Armed with more info: yes, in directly heated tubes (like Type 45s), filaments sharing a single secondary winding would limit channel separation. Filaments in DHTs are part of the signal path.
Whether this is a feature or a mistake? Without hearing it, most will suggest the later. It is not typical and I'd not compromise a build over an extra secondary winding and pot - not many builders would (some cheap Chinese manufacturers excepted) - so perhaps the crafter has made a conscious choice based on his sonic preferences? Listen and decide for yourself.
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Being that none of the users who have one have complained I imagine it's not noticeable and may be a design preference of Alan's. His amps are selling well and continue to go for good money. He's built a heck of a following so he must be doing something right.
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Docere & StevenZ
The Eaton amps sound fantastic. I have heard them in mono block and single chassis form. No complaints over here. StevenZ. Did the local builder do a tear down? How did his commentary come about?
Roscoe. What is your unity gain preamp?
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I’m using the pre-out of a Red Wine Audio Signature 16. Unfortunately I can’t find a way to work it into my systems.
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Well unfortunately the end came sooner than I expected. The Eaton 45 had a major buzz issue in both channels. It increased with turning up the volume. It was bad. And I knew from the get go that it had to be a volume pot issue. I wasted a lot of time trying to see if it was other issues first just to rule out every possibility. But I knew it couldn't be system related because all my other electronics and amps have 0 noise. So sent it back to Alan and sure enough, it was mislabeled volume pots. That was the culprit. But I has already gotten a refund by then and had my Omega's hooked up to my Digital Amplifier Company amps. Which sounded spectacular! Golden Cherry Monoblocks. And at 6ohms, they are putting out around hefty 270 watts per channel. The Omega's love them. So the idea that only low watt tube amps make Omega's sing. Absolutely not true. Not arguing the fact that low powered tube amps sound good with Omega's, because they do, I am just simply stating a fact that it's not the only option. It all boils down to the QUALITY and design of the amp, not the wattage.
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Where does one contact Alan Eaton. Glow in the dark site ??
thanks
charles
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messaged ya
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So, here the latest Alan Eaton 45 SET -- That red one on the bottom is on the way to me-- Should play well with my CAMs:D
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223431)
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You will love it. Using RCA 45s and 6SN7s and a Tungsol. Enjoy !!!
charles
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The CAMs are loving it:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223477)
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What’s funny is that I had an Alan Eaton 45 amp. Sold it a few months ago, and to put it simply - I miss it. I emailed Alan and tried to buy the red one. You bought it just before I emailed him back to say I’ll take it. Well done. I plan to have him make me the same one. His amps for the price sound special - as does the 45 tube.
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great amp for omega's :D
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So, I’m having Alan build me another 45 amp. This time I will never sell it (most likely never sell it). I’m thinking I’ll sell my Tekton Lores and purchase the Tekton Perfect SET speakers. I’m thinking / hoping it’d be an upgrade in sound and maybe the impedance is a bit easier as well. I’d like a little more volume but not sure if I’d actually get more with the switch. The Lores say they’re 98 db but they’re really about 95...
In additional I’m going to have Pine Tree build me a switch (no volume) for my DAC and Phono. Seems like great work they do.
Finally I’m still debating on the best tubes. I LOVED the globes I bought from Brent Jessee. But I’m curious to hear the EML 45’s. They’re just not cheap. I’ve also considered getting the EML 45b and having Alan’s amp modded to bring up the watts with the 45b - which would solve the 96b issue with 1.5 watts becoming about 3.5. Just not sure how it’d play with the changes.
Decisions decisions.
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I just bought one of these 2nd hand and should receive it by EOW.
I've not found much to read regarding tube rolling on the AE amps.
Do owners of the amp here have fave tube combos?
The one I got has Tung-Sol 45s, Sylvania 6SN7GTB and National Union 6AX5.
I already ordered a RCA 6AX5GT.
In my other amps, I prefer RCA. So, am thinking about getting some RCA Radiotron 45s.
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Consider a pair of the older globe 45's (245/345) and do not underestimate the sonic changes that rolling the rectifier can make.
For the 6SN7 you might consider a 7N7 with the 7N7 to 6SN7 adaptor. A 7N7 is the predecessor of the 6SN7 and are electrically identical, just with a different base pinout. They are much cheaper and can compete with some of the best 6SN7s.
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Thanks for your feedback doggie.
After a few weeks with the amp...
I was really close to getting a pair of RCA globes but they are quite a bit more expensive than the ST types.
My fave combo right now is CBS 45, Sylvania Chome Dome 6SN7 and CBS 6AX5GT rectifier.
I am comparing it against my other amp and am preferring it over the AE atm.
My understanding is the 7N7 is Sylvania regardless of label.
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So, I got the Topping E30ii which has a pair of the new AKM 4493S Velvet chips. It's very smooth sounding and a very good match with the AE45. It's now very very close to my other anp that's being fed by a dac at 20 times the price.