[bunky]

I had a pair of Dennis Murphy's affordable accuracy monitors delivered to me on Friday. I am currently using a Job 225 power amp and a Job Pre2 preamp in my system . Dennis's modifications make a decent speaker designed to meet a set price point sound fantastic.   

[adydula]

Hey thanks for the quick response!

Ok I understand now....I always check and double check when I do DIY stuff.

My parts should be on early next week and I hope to have them back up and running late next week.

Thanks again so much for putting this together, the Radio Shack pert board is a great way to do this!!

Np on the backside photo, I wanted to see how close you got to the gnd lands...

All the best
Alex

[MCM_Fan]

Np on the backside photo, I wanted to see how close you got to the gnd lands...

OK, that I can do.  When I drilled the Radio Shack perf boards, I did all four at once.  So, I still have two that have been drilled and had the red wires installed.  Here you go:



Notice, I shifted the two mounting holes to favor the A column over the F column.  Other than inductor L3, that is connected to F1,1, nothing else is connected to the F column.  So it doesn't matter if you completely sever this trace when drilling the mounting hole at E5.5,15.5.  As you can see in the photo, I barely nicked the trace when drilling the hole at A1.5,15.5.  This is the important trace to preserve.  And, as I said in the text, if you do accidentally sever this trace, you can always install a jumper wire around the mounting hole.

[adydula]

Thanks for the picture of the back side of the perf board.

I see the schematic has been updated as well... great!

I got a email from parts express and all the parts, tweeters etc have shipped!!!

Both speakers have been opened up, the 2.5 mm T-handle wrench worked easily to remove the speaker screws.

Just need to run up and get some of the #6 1/8" nylon spacers.

Can't wait to listen to these with Dennis' Crossover!

Alex

[MCM_Fan]

I had a pair of Dennis Murphy's affordable accuracy monitors delivered to me on Friday. I am currently using a Job 225 power amp and a Job Pre2 preamp in my system . Dennis's modifications make a decent speaker designed to meet a set price point sound fantastic.

Agreed!  I have been listening to my self-modified SP-BS22-LR speakers for almost 3 months now and absolutely love the sound.  I am very grateful to Dennis Murphy, Andrew Jones and Pioneer for providing me so much listening pleasure without significantly draining my bank account.  Fabulous bang for the buck!

[MCM_Fan]

Thanks for the picture of the back side of the perf board.

I see the schematic has been updated as well... great!

I got a email from parts express and all the parts, tweeters etc have shipped!!!

Both speakers have been opened up, the 2.5 mm T-handle wrench worked easily to remove the speaker screws.

Just need to run up and get some of the #6 1/8" nylon spacers.

Can't wait to listen to these with Dennis' Crossover!

Alex

No problem.  Thanks for the feedback on the schematic.  Anything that makes this mod easier to understand is welcome.  That was the motivation behind posting this DIY - to make these great sounding speakers available to as many people as possible.

Please keep us posted on your build progress and when you're done, let us know what you think of your new speakers.

[MCM_Fan]

It'll cost you a bit more $, but I'd use No-Rez from Danny at GR-Research. It always seems to make a significant difference. You'll probably have enough left over to do another pair or something, given how much you need. I like to put it on the binding posts cup backside.

What about bypassing C3 and C4 with some cheap and cheerful .1uf caps?

The No-Rez looks very similar to (only thicker than) the Sonic Barrier I used, but at about twice the cost.  1" thick would be pretty bulky in these small cabinets.  But, if you have the material and like it, give it a try and let us know what you think.  The one sheet of 1/2" Sonic Barrier I got from Parts Express for $9.95 gave me enough for two sets of speakers.  So, I'm all set.

Oh boy, bypassing caps are a subject of some controversy.  I don't really want to go down that rat hole in this thread (there are MANY, very long threads on this topic in other forums).  I did not design the crossover, so I'll refrain from commenting on this topic.  If Dennis wants to chime in, I'll leave that to him.  Again, I urge you to experiment.  Try the mods with and without the bypassing caps and let us know if you hear any differences.

[Folsom]

The No-Rez looks very similar to (only thicker than) the Sonic Barrier I used, but at about twice the cost.  1" thick would be pretty bulky in these small cabinets.  But, if you have the material and like it, give it a try and let us know what you think.  The one sheet of 1/2" Sonic Barrier I got from Parts Express for $9.95 gave me enough for two sets of speakers.  So, I'm all set.

Oh boy, bypassing caps are a subject of some controversy.  I don't really want to go down that rat hole in this thread (there are MANY, very long threads on this topic in other forums).  I did not design the crossover, so I'll refrain from commenting on this topic.  If Dennis wants to chime in, I'll leave that to him.  Again, I urge you to experiment.  Try the mods with and without the bypassing caps and let us know if you hear any differences.

With and without, love it! (capacitors, always fun)

Read up on people's implementation of the No-Rez. While it's not all together different looking, the results are pretty intensely different. Size is no concern "With No Rez the damping layer does take up air space. However, the foam layer slows down the air flow in the box making the woofer act as if it is in a larger air space. Usually the net effect is about a wash. " - Danny Richie

People report much improved midrange by removing other products like PE's!

[adydula]

Wow I just got the parts in from parets Express and was astounded at the size of the package!!
All this for 2 tweeters, a sheet of foam, screws, caps and inductors!!!



I chose the lowest cost shipping and it came in three days from Ohio to NC.

Should have the crossovers done by tomorrow afternoon, have company today...will post and let you know how it goes and how they sound to me!

Alex

[MCM_Fan]

Good luck with the build.  Once it's done, give them a good listen and let us know what you think

[adydula]

Well I just spent an three hours of listening and typing up my review and thoughts!!!
But I hit a delete key and lost it all!!!

&^%(^%(%(&^%

So here we go again!!

Well the project is completed and working very well.

My hats off to Dennis and MCM_Fan for all the great design and web work to allow is DIY'ers to do the upgrades to the Pioneer 22's!
I was emailing Dennis back in the beginning and was tempted to install them a few months back but never got around to it.
I listened to the speakers and thought they were indeed good for the price, but nothing I would want to listen to for any serious listening etc. I did post in the original 22 thread that mine were boomy on the bass end in my listening room and location.
So they were hung up behind one of my pcs I use for aircraft simulator stuff and gaming.

It wasn't until I saw your recent thread and your pictures, parts list etc...seemed easy enough to do I couldn't refuse doing the upgrade! My listening environment is a HT PC I built with all my ripped flacs to a HRT Music Streamer + DAC to a AVA Insight + preamp to a AVA UltraValve tube amp.

I really like Frank's stuff and his no-nonsense attitude, we are two peas in a pod there....my love for that old Dynaco stuff drove me to buying one of Franks UltraValves. I use it mainly with a pair of Jim Salks SongTowersa. Its a marriage made in audio heaven.
So I sat the little 22's on top of my SongTowers for listening....good stands!! LOL.

Before my listening results and review, the modding of the speakers deserves some attention! It took me about 8 hours of time all toll, 2 hrs here, and hr there etc...not all that bad. The instructions and pix on the site are very, very helpful and made it easy...just read the whole set to get and understanding of how MCM_Fan did the mod....you don't have to, but you should it will save you some time to get it right the first time.

The perf board is a great way to easily add the components Dennis has identified for the new tweeter etc....to be integrated with the 4" woofer. The holes in the original crossover PC boards did not match the perf board holed exactly and I had to do some "futzing" and enlarging to get to line up etc.

I did not use the 1/8" nylon spacers, I had a bunch of hard rubberized washers and used them....worked well etc. I made patterns for the new foam padding for the lower half and hot glued the original white insulation to the top half around the exhaust port.
I did burn my thumb with a hot drip of hot glue...gosh that was fun!! LOL.

It was easy to install the new crossover and the new tweeter...I did use a dremel tool as well with a round sanding disk, made this part quick and easy but "dusty". LOL. The hardest part to me was removing the rubberized foam gasket from the old tweeter to be used with the new tweeter...you have to be careful and work slowly, I used a #11 xacto Knife.

All in all this is really a simple DIY project, but its labor intensive, just have to slow down and think.....check and re-check. I almost put a scewdriver threw a woofer installing one back in!! That would have really ruined my day!!

When you start putting the speakers back in you get a little excited knowing that that they fruits of you labor are close to being "reaped"!! good or bad! I did attach the speakers to the completed crossover assembly and test to make sure sound came out both speakers and I didn't do anything really incorrect. I might say the new crossovers really look great and well layed out...if you like working with this stuff its "pretty"!!! LOL.

Ok so how do they sound now?

Well I listened for three solid hours....its that good to me now....

At the end of the three hours I hooked up my Salk SongTowers to see what I was missing..well the 22's are no SongTowers for sure.
The SongTowers provide more of everything...more presence, larger wall of sound, filling the listening room effortlessly etc....

But...

That said I could listen to the new re-vamped Pioneers for hours and really enjoy them....they are really nice compared to what I listened to before. I don'tt know what fixed the "boominness" I had before....but its totally tamed or gone....all during the three hours of listening I was constantly surprised at how well these 4 inch woofers were presenting bass. Now I wished I had done this mod earlier!!LOL.

Ok here is what I listened to:

Joshua Bell's At Home with Friends, Porgy and Bess. Trumpet, and violins...absolutely superb...5 Stars here.
Very realistic trumpet and violin sounds. like the real thing...well..close anyhow.

Larry Carlton...I have of his music, all sound fantastic, great details, easily discerned and well imaged. 4 Stars.

Also Known as Mary by Quincy, female voice..."I'm Crying" is A+ for imaging and clarity...5 Stars.
Johnny Cash American IV, Male Voice and plain old guitar...really really nice..5 Stars.
Natalie Cole/Diana Krall...."Ask A Woman Who Knows".....again excellent....imaging, separation, 4 Stars.
Blue by Double, 'Woman of the World"....Percussion shines 4 Stars.
Four Play.....This is one of Dennis demo cuts!!! LOL....Song is called "Chant". Great opening drum whacks. Usually play this over and over for sound accuracy and
attack...bite etc...but I found myself listening to the entire track for once, it was that great...5 Stars.
Acoustic Alchemy, "Blue Chip Bop"....This is a really "tight cut with "bite"....Very well articulated...5 Stars.
I forget where this one came from but its a female jazz singer singing "All that Jazz"....from one of my many demo cs....5+ Stars.
Jack McGuffey, Bringing it Home...."After Hours"...piano is 5 Stars.
Joni Mitchell's Don Juan's Reckless Daughter...."Overture- Cotten" 6 Stars!  Wonderful details, imaging etc.
Jimmy Smiths Dot Com Blues...."Tuition Blues: one of the demo standards....this is indeed 6 Stars to me...
Eva Casasidy Songbird from Eva by Heart.....Very 3 dimensional....really really good, like a well done live concert well recorded.
Kirk Whalum.....For You, "Anytime"5 Stars...Great Sax..
there were many others, like Dave Grusin stuff, Famous Blue Raincoat etc...

The net of it is the mod to me has mad a HUGE difference to me and is well, well worth it. I don't see how you can do better at this price point...if your on a budget this is a sure winner! The huge part for me is that the boomy stuff is gone and it makes these speakers listenable to me, the bass is now better and the new tweeter and the crossover makes these a really nice set of bookshelf speakers at a modest price.

I am now tempted to get a Pioneer center channel speaker and mod for my HT!! The longerI listened to them the more I liked what I was hearing. They are not perfect by any means...I played some deep organ music...well it is a 4 inch woofer.....LOL. I think their small size....that they have harder time filling up the room towards a more real presentation, but in their "size" they do a wonderful job at almost getting there!! (at least in my small listening room).

Thanks again for the help with this thread to getting me to do the upgrade!!

Dennis your truly a "rocket scientist"!!

All the best

Alex
 

[charmerci]

Well I just spent an three hours of listening and typing up my review and thoughts!!!
But I hit a delete key and lost it all!!!

Just hit Ctrl-Z. It comes back.

[adydula]

Ha!

I wish it did, tried that....oh well....its done....I have a new tablet "surface" and the portable keyboard isn't exactly the same size...I type too fast and am sloppy!!

Hey did I tell you the boomy side of the 22's has been tamed...

Don't know if the extra foam padding in the lower woofer half helped with this and or Dennis's low end part of the crossover update or the combination of the two....most likely that.

The bass that is there is done very well now....(that is the bass freq's these can actually reproduce..)

Great percussion etc...

When you have something for a long time it seems after awhile it becomes "standard" or "normal" then when something new like this speaker and mod...its once again "new" and you get to re-discover your music collection...

That alone is enough to do this upgrade!!!

Alex

[MCM_Fan]

Alex,

Congrats on completing the mods and thanks for posting your impressions of the modified speakers.  I love, love, love mine.  I've tried not to be too much of a cheerleader for these mods.  A great many people are quite happy with these speakers in their unmodified state, but I heard the difference immediately, and after 3 months of daily listening, I am still enjoying these inexpensive, modified Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers very, very much.  They sound so smooth and are so easy to listen to I could, and do, listen to them all day long.

Welcome to the club!  One of these weekends, I need to finish modifying my second pair.

[adydula]

Cool.... yes I understand not being a cheer leader, but in this case its one of those really neat things that really does make a real world difference... so cheer on my friend!!

I could not listen to them very much at all, and thought hey they will make good external gaming pc speakers!! Ha!!
Not now...

I have a set of polkas I will now use for that duty!!..

The overall sound quality and resolving power is really outstanding now with these speakers. While listening to some Larry Carlton music I was amazed at the sound and timbre of the wire brushes and the percussion instruments.... amazing.

I need to look into the center channel is the schematic any where around for it??

Alex

[stevetuner]

Hello - new member here.

This project looks like far too much fun to pass up.  However, the Vifa BC25TG15 tweeters are out of stock.  I don't mind the extra $$ for the XT25BG60's, but not sure if these would work with the crossover as designed.  The specs are close, I'm just worried about the sensitivity.

http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-xt25bg60-04-1-shielded-dual-ring-radiator-tweeter--264-1012

Thanks!

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Has anyone compared these to the GR Research-modded Insignia NS-B2111? I have a stock set of the Insignias I was considering modding, but if the modded Pioneer SP-BS22-LR sounds way better, maybe I'll buy some of those pre-modded.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Has anyone compared these to the GR Research-modded Insignia NS-B2111? I have a stock set of the Insignias I was considering modding, but if the modded Pioneer SP-BS22-LR sounds way better, maybe I'll buy some of those pre-modded.

Anybody? 

[JLG440]

Hello Steveturner, I don't have the Insignias but I did mod the sp-bs22 and they sound incredible, they're outstanding jaw dropping cheap speakers. I read someone in this same forum tested  the Insignias and he said they sound better than the pioneers. 

[MLS]

I have some Insignia's with better caps and resistors from PE and a pair of stock Pioneer's.  IMHO the Pioneer's sound better and are very easy and enjoyable to listen to.  I have used the Insignia's in a near field application and the image very well.  A friend of mine has done the Dennis Murphy mods with Sonicaps, Mills resistors and other minor mods, We want to compare the two before I do the same mods to my Pioneer's.  My friend said the results are very promising, they are still burning in as of the last time I talked to him.