[77SunsetStrip]

Watched the first video about cables Danny posted to Youtube. 

I know a clean signal path makes a difference.  Ears told me there was a problem.  Multiple FR measurements alone did not help.  After some investigation found a signal path problem between amp and speakers.  Resolved that issue and clarity, detail and tone are so much better.  Investigated my REW measurements deeper and found before condition nearly 6% THD.  After measurements showed 0.6% THD.  FR plots before and after revealed nothing.  Waterfall and Decay similar enough I can not point to anything. 

THD is the only significant change.  Eager to see if Danny addresses THD with respect to cables.

[Early B.]

Not sure I understand -- was the reduction in THD a result of the signal path problem or an improvement due to the cables?   

[77SunsetStrip]

Not sure I understand -- was the reduction in THD a result of the signal path problem or an improvement due to the cables?

No change in cables, just eliminated bad connection points in the path.  Cables are stranded copper wire, nothing exotic.  THD of 0.6% seems like a good number.  Maybe someone more expert interpreting measurements can comment.

[mflaming]

Huge GR fan here, but I really wish the flat earther joke would go away now. It makes no sense. The tube connectors and cables are fine on their own merit and I plan to use both in a future project. No silly analogies or arguments needed.

If I observe the earth is flat it must be true. If I also observe my speakers sound better with tubes and DIY cables it must also be true. Aren't we GR fans the flat earthers?

Sorry, I don't want to start an argument here, but demanding to be right about everything is not productive. There's plenty of room for all viewpoints and opinions in this hobby.

A friend down the street is building a crossoverless full range project with DIY tube amp and I think that's awesome. Another good friend uses a Walmart Bluetooth turntable for her vinyl collection -that's great too. I really don't care how they approach things. No name calling or insults required.

I'm just a newb here and should probably shut up, but this has bothered me for a while.

[77SunsetStrip]

I take the flatearth label as lighthearted humor not intended as personal attack.  Yes, we can all be set in our ways, have different experience, and at times resistant to change.  Audio Circle is a great place to learn from knowledgeable and respectful people like Danny.  Check out some other forums level of respect shown differing approached to the audio hobby. 

[Early B.]

If I observe the earth is flat it must be true.

Just because you observe something doesn't make it true. Just ask any magician. Our interpretations of what we observe are often false.

I agree with you, however, in this regard -- it's a waste of time for Danny to try and convince anyone that cables matter. People only need to realize one thing -- the subjectivity aspect of audio will always outweigh the science because only YOUR ears matter. It becomes very personal to try and convince someone else that their components or cables aren't as good as they think they are, hence the vicious and nonsensical attacks. On the other hand, it may be a great marketing strategy for Danny to poke the pig.     

[Barryg443]

I am enjoying the cable video series.  Danny is just responding to the critics to his video.  I think the flat earth globe is hilarious. While some of these criticisms look good on paper, the main thing is to trust your ears.  If you don’t hear a difference, then do what you think is best.  For those of us who can hear a difference, again do what you think is best.  If you hear a significant difference, then cost vs improvement is the issue.  Which is where DIY cables come into focus!  A big thank you Danny for what you do.

Barry

[mlundy57]

I am enjoying the cable video series.  Danny is just responding to the critics to his video.  I think the flat earth globe is hilarious. While some of these criticisms look good on paper, the main thing is to trust your ears.  If you don’t hear a difference, then do what you think is best.  For those of us who can hear a difference, again do what you think is best.  If you hear a significant difference, then cost vs improvement is the issue.  Which is where DIY cables come into focus!  A big thank you Danny for what you do.

Barry

+1

If I hear a difference between two components in my system, but somebody else does not hear a difference between those same components in their system which one of us is right? If I like Pizza Hut best but someone else thinks Papa Johns is best while a third person says it's Dominos, who's right?

If something can't be quantified does that mean it doesn't exist? What about things we don't how to measure. Do they not exist just because we aren't smart enough at this point in time to know what to measure or how to measure it? Does my Easyracers titanium frame bicycle ride better than a steel frame bike from a big box store? What attribute(s) of the bikes can be measured to tell which one rides better? If you put together some objective, measurable criteria and, if those measurements were the same, would that mean there was no difference between the the two bikes and I only think there is? Even if that's the case, so what? When it comes to me choosing which bike to ride, my perceptions are the only thing that matters.

How does all that relate to cables? Over the years I've compared different cables more than once. Seven years ago I could hear differences between cables up to a point but not beyond. The system I have today is much more revealing and as such, the cables that represented the point where I could no longer hear any differences can no longer make that claim. One thing that happened as my system became more revealing was that I started to hear radio broadcasts in the background from my speakers and I don't have a radio tuner in my system. Changing to cables that better filtered out the RFI reduced the volume of the broadcast. Moving up to balanced components and cables greatly improved the problem.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I remember a video I watched a while back mentioned that a rather well known and respected reviewer had a system where their setup would often be playing several radio stations could be heard coming through their setup at any given time, & that's how they reviewed products...

Imagine if they had taken the time to better isolate/shield their setup/room, and reduce issues with RFI..

I'll need to see if I can find it again.

[Early B.]

I remember a video I watched a while back mentioned that a rather well known and respected reviewer had a system where their setup would often be playing several radio stations could be heard coming through their setup at any given time, & that's how they reviewed products...

Before I read any review, the first thing I want to know is the gear used for the review. If a reviewer is using cheap cables or low end gear, it's an absolute no read for me.

 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Found it!

It was the video of Danny & Tyson talking about reviewers & audioshows, about 17 minutes in:

https://youtu.be/nyiuQCD3sCA

[Danny Richie]

Hey guys, thanks for watching the video's.

The whole flat earth deal is really just a little lighthearted humor, and a little bit of a poke with a smile. 

The reason that the label fits is really ironic. It fits the guys that think they are scientist because they measure everything. But in reality nothing they measure answers the question of does it sound differently (or better). And with any real science once must observe any result. They never get that far. They never listen to confirm their theory. So no real science. So they are being likened to the guys that think the world is flat. They have a belief...

And it sure gets them going. I hope they stick around and watch the episodes to come.

[Tyson]

Whether or not someone can hear a difference between cables is partly a result of system transparency.  After all, if your system isn't very transparent, then it's a bottleneck to hearing these types of differences.

In addition, biology plays a factor too.  Back when I drank, I was really into Scotch and Bourbon.  You put a $20 bourbon up against a $80 bourbon and some people absolutely could not tell the difference.  But some people could. 

It's the same with audio.  Some people can hear differences and some people can't. 

[Early B.]

Whether or not someone can hear a difference between cables is partly a result of system transparency.  After all, if your system isn't very transparent, then it's a bottleneck to hearing these types of differences.

Even crappy systems can discern cable differences -- that's how I learned. I think it has more to do with one's belief system. There was a time when I didn't believe it, either. But behind that disbelief lurked my real concern - I didn't want to spend the money on better cables. It's weird, man -- at one point a few years ago, one pair of my interconnects cost the same as my 35 pound preamp. Cables can be a significant investment and some people are apprehensive about going down that road, so they convince themselves that they're using science to support their trepidations.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

In addition, biology plays a factor too.  Back when I drank, I was really into Scotch and Bourbon.  You put a $20 bourbon up against a $80 bourbon and some people absolutely could not tell the difference.  But some people could. 

It's the same with audio.  Some people can hear differences and some people can't.

This!

It's a lot to do with experience, just like alcohol, once you learn to get past the burn of alcohol it becomes easy to tell the difference between say a good vodka and a bad one, regardless of price.

Likewise, once you get to a point where you have some experience experience the difference with speakers/cables/hardware, etc and can compare them side by side and easily point out their strengths and weaknesses.

There's a lot that goes into understanding these concepts beyond just textbook definitions, but by actually experiencing them first hand it becomes more than just words in a book, and something to look for.

[Endo2112]

I have a good friend who is a wine consultant, he flys around the country helping folks dial in their wines with chemicals, wood, micro dosing etc. and he has a saying about wine;

how do You do if a wine is good??

If You like it!!

I'm lucky that I get to partake with him every now and then, and every time I do I learn something about different styles and the little subtleties that they possess and I've learned over time to appreciate these differences and except the fact that although I may not prefer one wine over another, it may infact be better to someone who is trained to experience these differences. The moral of this perhaps is that some folks are very content with some average belden cable, but perhaps, just maybe there is better if you have the willingness and system to appreciate the differences that some cables provide.

Unfortunately, most folks in this hobby are very attached to their gear and system ideals, and feel the need to protect them at all costs, at the end of the day, do what ever you think is right for your system and your ears!!

Don

[Endo2112]

Sorry,

How do you know,

Cheers,

Don

[mlundy57]

I have a good friend who is a wine consultant, he flys around the country helping folks dial in their wines with chemicals, wood, micro dosing etc. and he has a saying about wine;

how do You do if a wine is good??

If You like it!!

I'm lucky that I get to partake with him every now and then, and every time I do I learn something about different styles and the little subtleties that they possess and I've learned over time to appreciate these differences and except the fact that although I may not prefer one wine over another, it may infact be better to someone who is trained to experience these differences. The moral of this perhaps is that some folks are very content with some average belden cable, but perhaps, just maybe there is better if you have the willingness and system to appreciate the differences that some cables provide.

Unfortunately, most folks in this hobby are very attached to their gear and system ideals, and feel the need to protect them at all costs, at the end of the day, do what ever you think is right for your system and your ears!!

Don

Single malt too, don't forget the single malt 

Oh Yeah, Tyson did mention that earlier. 

[mflaming]

Ok, maybe I was being overly sensitive - sounds like I've misinterpreted and its all in good fun. Freezing my butt of here in TX with no power for the past few days has me a little frazzled.

The alcohol analogy is perfect. My friends and I used to debate qualities of our favorite craft beers endlessly, picking out different hop varieties, yeast strains, malts etc, etc. The Bud Light drinkers were my version of Danny's Flat Earthers. Its all just beer, right? Nope! There's a real difference in quality of ingredients used and how they are combined.

[jn316]

I'm no expert on the topic, but I'm guessing those that know their wine/bourbon/beer and make it, don't follow an exact formula in their INITIAL production of a product. They add the ingredients that they think will taste good, heat it at a certain temperature, store it in a particular material barrel for a certain length of time, etc... and ultimately...TASTE IT.  If the science were exact, you could just trust your initial formula/process, produce thousands of gallons, and ship it out without ever tasting it. In the infamous words of Dana Carvey/George H.W. Bush, "Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent." Might there also be variables in our sense of taste and the process of making alcoholic beverages that science has not mastered yet, or can't fully explain?

Now I'm thirsty!