AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Headphone Mania => Topic started by: GentleBender on 11 Nov 2015, 11:04 pm
-
Pretty funny review of these headphones that "I" will probably never get to hear. :(
http://gizmodo.com/we-listened-to-sennheisers-absurd-55-000-orpheus-headp-1741947676?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
-
Holy Conspicuous Consumption, Batman!
Way out of my league.
-
The reviwver is right 55K sound ridiculous, if these phones sound quality was the best in the world, it does no more than their right duty because of the outrageous and senseless price.
The retractable buttons is a feature useless and unnecessary, engineers will love, its a typical german thing to impress new rich people and audiophools.
-
Wait....I think I've got enough money in the ashtray of my car for these. Donald
-
Pretty funny review of these headphones that "I" will probably never get to hear. :(
http://gizmodo.com/we-listened-to-sennheisers-absurd-55-000-orpheus-headp-1741947676?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews
Hi GentleBender,
may I post my opinion for what it's worth ?
That's exactly the kind of gadget for the (New Vietnamese) rich that want to impress friends,
to be the only one with such a gadget and at 55K$ to brag about the price.
I know what I am talking about, for twenty years I had some of those new rich in my showroom.
The first question they ask:
Is that new model ?
If I buy, will I be the first and only one to have such an items?
Then, how much. (They pay without asking for any discount.)
Yes, I am sure that the button and tube pop-up stuff will be a good gadget
to impress any visitors to their house.
For me, the first thing I think other than the price is:
Ho my God, what will happen when it breaks ???? Because, it will break,
let's not forget that pop in and out will go like up and down like motor car pistons.
Well, someone - somewhere will make money and laugh his head off
right up to the bank.
Guy 13
-
Not to mention the tubes w/no cooling, inside glass tubes. :duh:
-
Is this really any more absurd than any other luxury item with a luxury price? I just find it funny that we can look at $55k amps, and $55k speakers all day, and can sort of understand why they cost so much....even IF we wouldn't buy them, IF we had the money. But then this pair of $55k headphones comes along and we act like it's a foreign concept. :lol:
-
The retractable buttons is a feature useless and unnecessary, engineers will love, its a typical german thing to impress new rich people and audiophools.
Agreed, not to mention the retractable tubes. What is the point of that? Consider the wiring to the tube sockets, they have to flex every time the amp is turned on and off. To whom does that seem like a good idea? That adds needless complexity that has to detract from reliability. That is my biggest issue with these: Not so much the price as the fact that they are as much about conspicuous consumption as about sound- if not more. They are attracting attention for all the wrong reasons and feeding the public perception of audiophiles (to the extent that there is a public perception of audiophiles) as neurotic spendthrift idiots. We are NOT idiots :roll:
-
Agreed, not to mention the retractable tubes. What is the point of that? Consider the wiring to the tube sockets, they have to flex every time the amp is turned on and off. To whom does that seem like a good idea? That adds needless complexity that has to detract from reliability. That is my biggest issue with these: Not so much the price as the fact that they are as much about conspicuous consumption as about sound- if not more. They are attracting attention for all the wrong reasons and feeding the public perception of audiophiles (to the extent that there is a public perception of audiophiles) as neurotic spendthrift idiots. We are NOT idiots :roll:
To Whom does that seem like a good idea?
I think you want mean who in the factory had this ''brilliant'' idea of retractable parts on this unit.
My opinion this is a typical idea from the Marketing Department. :duh:
Of course the amp unit dont have Silver Hard Wire, it must use mass made PCBs IMO.
-
Is this really any more absurd than any other luxury item with a luxury price? I just find it funny that we can look at $55k amps, and $55k speakers all day, and can sort of understand why they cost so much....even IF we wouldn't buy them, IF we had the money. But then this pair of $55k headphones comes along and we act like it's a foreign concept. :lol:
From the already expensive plastic and alum $1500 HD800 from $55K there is a considerable gap.
-
Is this really any more absurd than any other luxury item with a luxury price? I just find it funny that we can look at $55k amps, and $55k speakers all day, and can sort of understand why they cost so much....even IF we wouldn't buy them, IF we had the money. But then this pair of $55k headphones comes along and we act like it's a foreign concept. :lol:
I get tired of people who dismiss or blow a gasket over a high-priced product just because it IS a high-priced product. Is it due to a deep resentment of those who can afford whats other can't? An overwhelming feeling of insecurity? What's wrong with an all-out attempt to make a state-of-the-art set of headphones, an amplifier, a car? And why must that resentment seem to permeate the threads of some people?
:banghead:
-
I get tired of people who dismiss or blow a gasket over a high-priced product just because it IS a high-priced product. Is it due to a deep resentment of those who can afford whats other can't? An overwhelming feeling of insecurity? What's wrong with an all-out attempt to make a state-of-the-art set of headphones, an amplifier, a car? And why must that resentment seem to permeate the threads of some people?
:banghead:
Yeah but...they're headphones.
-
I get tired of people who dismiss or blow a gasket over a high-priced product just because it IS a high-priced product. Is it due to a deep resentment of those who can afford whats other can't? An overwhelming feeling of insecurity? What's wrong with an all-out attempt to make a state-of-the-art set of headphones, an amplifier, a car? And why must that resentment seem to permeate the threads of some people?
:banghead:
I haven't seen any resentment posted about these headphones (I'm sure it is posted somewhere since this is the Internet). There are questionable design factors posted above, but no hate. I would love to give them a listen to see what kind of euphoric sound they have. My cash flow would never allow an overly extravagant object, but that is me. :thumb: I'm not jealous at all. I could build a listening room onto my house and furnish it with decent gear for that price though, but I am not part of the market they are aiming for.
-
Yeah but...they're headphones.
I understand what you mean say, headphones dont have the full size sound, bass transients etc from a floor standing loudspeakers.
Also HiFiMan and Stax have tech conditions to made a capable competitor for much lower price.
This kind of obscene price are very bad to the custumers, as it may inflate prices of others headphones.
If the price of all the products increase as in this case, no one will buy.
-
This kind of obscene price are very bad to the custumers, as it may inflate prices of others headphones.
If the price of all the products increase as in this case, no one will buy.
On what do you base that assumption? Please give us a cause-and-effect example/case study. :scratch:
-
There is a story out there about how Infinity contacted Harry Pearson about paying for the speaker system that he had chosen as his Reference speaker system for any number of years. The price of that system was
about $20k at the time. Long story / short the speakers went back to Infinity & another speaker system became his Reference system. $20k back then probably equates to well over $100k now.
Plain & simple , life is about personal values. I think it's somewhat of a useless excercise to concern yourself about what the price of anything is ,unless it's mandatory that we buy that item in question. Too many people
seem to confuse cost & value . There's a saying that goes some people know the cost of everything but the value of little. It's ok to talk about how much things cost , just leave the talk about it's worth out.
If there is anyone, anywhere who finds worth in stratospherically priced audio equipment ,value exists.
That most people would disagree doesn't really matter. Is it that hard to understand ?
-
If there is anyone, anywhere who finds worth in stratospherically priced audio equipment ,value exists.
That most people would disagree doesn't really matter. Is it that hard to understand ?
Nope! Well said! :thumb:
-
The simple answer is, maybe someone has made a headphone that sounds just as good. But while I could try the Stax SR009 for example, I would need to know how good the Orpheus is first. Or afterward. Some of the press on this or the previous model suggested that it really had a superior sound, but to my knowledge it was never critically compared.
You could look at it that way or, while I could try the Senn, I would need to know how good the SR009 ($4.5K w/out amp) is first.
"Stax phones can be bought from Japanese sources at a lower price than US dealers. The US dealers include on-line sellers like Elusive Disc. The very top model, SR-009 costs about $4,500 from US sellers, and that is the price without an amp/energizer which is a necessary item. I heard the SR-009 in direct comparison with the SR-007 mk.1 phones that I own on a Blue Hawaii SE amp/energizer (the model I also own) at a recent audio show. The SR-009 has better bass, a more open and extended sounding top end and is considerably more efficient. But, to me, the upper midrange is a bit more strident sounding and there is more tendency toward sibilance. This might be a harder phone to match with upstream electronics, particularly with solid state gear. I liked the SR-009, but I also liked the SR-007 that I already own too.
I also heard a Sennheiser HE 60 outfitted with Stax-type plug in a direct comparison with both the SR-009 and SR-007. This phone was a little more dynamically laid back and not as extended in bass and treble response as either Stax phones, but, it sounded very natural and tonally well balanced (a better phone than either Stax if you think Stax is a bit too lean or bright sounding). All of these electrostatic phones sound considerably LESS bright and analytical than Sennheiser HD800 dynamic phones, but they are not even close to something like Audeze planar magnetic phones in terms of being warm sounding. There is a pretty wide range of sonic choices among top end phones and matching amps."
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/just-how-expensive-are-stax-headsets.348899/
I've read that Stax amps are contoured for their phones. I think the electrostatic elements are biased at 500V so a tube amp is indicated. Nothing can match the speed and delicacy of an electrostatic transducer. Depending on your source you could find the amp you like and use digital EQ ?
It's surprising how many people would spring for something like the Senn system with pop out controls and tubes that rise out of their silos. Those features alone will sell a bunch of these.
neo
-
I was about to place my order, but decided to wait on the deluxe version.
-
I guess now this makes the Audeze 4 at 4K a bargain.
-
I was about to place my order, but decided to wait on the deluxe version.
A wise decision if you can afford it. The Basic Deluxe version has gold plated front panel and controls. Also has custom gold tube shields, white ceramic tube sockets and piano black deck. It comes with mahogany side panels with optional finish and goes with any décor. The ear pads have a self fitting feature that molds to any head and/or is custom sized to large or small ears/brains. This is the sweet spot of the deluxe line at only $94K.
The Super Deluxe version gets a little more involved. All the features of Basic, plus servo controls are located behind the transducers and control the amp like a servo subwoofer. Sensors are implanted in your brain for wireless transmission to the servo system. The brain surgery is a little expensive unless your doctor says it's necessary. Then, your insurance should cover most of it.
(Hint: If your psychiatrist insists it's absolutely necessary....)
Super Deluxe is only $179K without the surgery.
I'd be a little cautious about the sensor implants. If this system was hacked, you might be hearing things even when you weren't wearing the phones. Next they'll be servo controlling your thoughts, sort of like they do now only with more precision.
neo
-
A wise decision if you can afford it. The Basic Deluxe version has gold plated front panel and controls. Also has custom gold tube shields, white ceramic tube sockets and piano black deck. It comes with mahogany side panels with optional finish and goes with any décor. The ear pads have a self fitting feature that molds to any head and/or is custom sized to large or small ears/brains. This is the sweet spot of the deluxe line at only $94K.
The Super Deluxe version gets a little more involved. All the features of Basic, plus servo controls are located behind the transducers and control the amp like a servo subwoofer. Sensors are implanted in your brain for wireless transmission to the servo system. The brain surgery is a little expensive unless your doctor says it's necessary. Then, your insurance should cover most of it.
(Hint: If your psychiatrist insists it's absolutely necessary....)
Super Deluxe is only $179K without the surgery.
I'd be a little cautious about the sensor implants. If this system was hacked, you might be hearing things even when you weren't wearing the phones. Next they'll be servo controlling your thoughts, sort of like they do now only with more precision.
neo
I think the Super Deluxe is the way to go. $100K is really the sweet spot for me, because that way I know I am getting into the good stuff. Although the Basic system might be good on the yacht.
-
They have made themselves a pretty easy target with a pricing strategy like this.
I do wonder how they sound.
I get that there is a TON of product in the high end aimed squarely at those that can afford not to ask "how much".
-
They have made themselves a pretty easy target with a pricing strategy like this.
I do wonder how they sound.
I get that there is a TON of product in the high end aimed squarely at those that can afford not to ask "how much".
They've also got a lot of free (well, cheap - the cost of the prototype) attention in the marketplace! Of course, they have done this successfully before with the HE90s in the early 90's and it must have worked!
-
They have made themselves a pretty easy target with a pricing strategy like this.
I do wonder how they sound.
I get that there is a TON of product in the high end aimed squarely at those that can afford not to ask "how much".
Stop !!!
You mean to tell me that Senn. considers (as does anyone who offers a $50 ~ $100k component) as not being separate offerings from their other product lines ?
Last time I looked even those with the financial means to spend this amount of $$$$$ take pause at actually
spend this amount on Audio equipment. While these ultra high price Audio components exist. They exist more
for the purpose of the Manufacturers need to be "Posers".
They will eventually sell a few of these products, but more realistically it's just another case of which Manufacturer is going to let another Manfacturer have the "biggest dog in the fight". Wealthy people sre much
more likely to use their "disposable income" on various types of vehicles or other luxury items.
The Manufacturers aren't delusional enough to think they'll make money hand over fist . They just want to be able to hang ther hats on how technologically more advanced they are than their competitors (even if that really isn't the case)
There's a saying about "making a mountain out of a mole hill" that fits pretty well here.
-
Stop !!!
You mean to tell me that Senn. considers (as does anyone who offers a $50 ~ $100k component) as not being separate offerings from their other product lines ?
Last time I looked even those with the financial means to spend this amount of $$$$$ take pause at actually
spend this amount on Audio equipment. While these ultra high price Audio components exist. They exist more
for the purpose of the Manufacturers need to be "Posers".
They will eventually sell a few of these products, but more realistically it's just another case of which Manufacturer is going to let another Manfacturer have the "biggest dog in the fight". Wealthy people sre much
more likely to use their "disposable income" on various types of vehicles or other luxury items.
The Manufacturers aren't delusional enough to think they'll make money hand over fist . They just want to be able to hang ther hats on how technologically more advanced they are than their competitors (even if that really isn't the case)
There's a saying about "making a mountain out of a mole hill" that fits pretty well here.
Not so sure you are correct here.
For example, Wilson has sold 600 pair of their top of the line Alexandria speakers in the 2 years they've been on the market.
And for sure, the people that are laying down $200,000 for speakers are matching them with amps, preamps, cables, DAC's, etc with similar top of the line, top of the market equipment.
And that is only considering one brand's speakers. Add in the hundreds of top of the line Magico, Perfect 8, MBL, Acapella, etc, and all the top line amps, preamps, DAC's, cables etc, being sold along with them, and that is a pretty big minority people purchasing equipment just, as you say, to prop these manufacturers up as 'posers'.
-
Yup. If you keep up with economic news, the income gap between the wealthy and the middle and lower class (in the US) is ENORMOUS ; Larger than ever. AND, there are more wealthy people now than ever...which is why luxury brands are doing just fine these days, while the rest of us sit in awe. If you have the means to do so, now is a great time to offer uber luxury items.
-
At least a $50K set of headphones are still headphones the next day. A $3K bottle of Chateau Petrus is just piss the day after.
Personally, I think the outrage over the super high end is rather silly. It boils down to how much of your life did you sell to put back a dollar, $100, or $100K. For the uber wealthy, it's less than the blink of an eye, so spending great amounts is no sacrifice. For the guy washing dishes at the local Denny's Restaurant, it may take a month to put back a solid $100- or he may never get ahead. If your daily income measures in the $5 000 range (less than a couple of Mill a year) enjoy that 1994 Petrus. Maybe one day you can afford the 1982. :thumb:
-
I could buy the Orpheus, but I ask why. I'm into premium sound, and I need to make sure my headphone of choice has the exact signature I need, i.e. if it doesn't have the perfect balance of bass, mids and treble, I make it happen. So if I buy the Orpheus, and I make the signature perfect (because I doubt that it is out of the box), then what? Will it then still sound superior to any other premium electrostatic? For one thing, they're using tubes, yes? How premium is that? It may round out the edges for greater smoothness, but is that better for accuracy and fidelity? Tubes wear out, and when I get "new" tubes it will likely sound slightly different. What then?
Small signal tubes, in a well designed circuit, can actually have VERY linear performance. It's typically the (larger type) output tubes that tend to struggle with distortion.
But you're right. What happens when you have to change tubes? Are these special tubes that are hand made to tight tolerances, so when you pay $10k (or whatever amount) to swap them, they'll perform just like the originals? I would hope so.
-
They just want to be able to hang ther hats on how technologically more advanced they are than their competitors (even if that really isn't the case)
Nothing new under the sun, I dont see any advance in this product since planar speakers is a old well established technology, I know Magnepan loudspeakers and Jeckling Electrostatic phones since the 1970s.
This price looks just marketing to shock people, I dont see any other reason.
-
Marketing just to "shock people" is pointless and may well backfire on the firm. If that's the only reason you see then you haven't been paying attention to this thread. If you are stone deaf to others' comments, how can you hear differences in equipment/recordings? :duh:
-
Food for thought and note to self;
Maybe they are all just ridiculous, pretty overpriced boxes of wires?!
-
Nothing new under the sun, I dont see any advance in this product since planar speakers is a old well established technology, I know Magnepan loudspeakers and Jeckling Electrostatic phones since the 1970s.
This price looks just marketing to shock people, I dont see any other reason.
This is pretty funny !!!
You succeeded in missing the points I made . I wasn't really talking about whatever actual advancements there might be, but the marketing copy . For as long as Sennheiser has been established (& pretty successful)
I'm pretty certain they aren't that interested in "shocking" the customers that they "know" aren't going to be
looking to buy something in this price range !
No, they are honestly looking for buyers who can swing spending this much. At least I don't think they're delusional enough to think their current customer base won't have any qualms about upgrading to this price
level ! (They have been exhibiting a pretty silly amount of Marketing Ego lately, though)
-
Hmmmm 55K headphones or 110K happy endings? At my age I'll take the headphones :lol:
charles
-
This is pretty funny !!!
You succeeded in missing the points I made . I wasn't really talking about whatever actual advancements there might be, but the marketing copy . For as long as Sennheiser has been established (& pretty successful)
I'm pretty certain they aren't that interested in "shocking" the customers that they "know" aren't going to be
looking to buy something in this price range !
No, they are honestly looking for buyers who can swing spending this much. At least I don't think they're delusional enough to think their current customer base won't have any qualms about upgrading to this price
level ! (They have been exhibiting a pretty silly amount of Marketing Ego lately, though)
OK sorry for it so.
I also can atest Senn are very firm on its prices, just like the HD800 which dont have price reduced so far.
Happen to me afew years ago the general manager from Senn Brasil said me in very firm words he want sell me a HD800 w/1year warranty for equivalent to $3000usd(even without a demo, just a blind online order), when in Lisboa it was priced equivalent $1450. :duh:
I said he was not in his perfect mind.
However the manager acted very quickly and communicated Senn Germany and the following week the Portugal shop pulled the price off the site and to this day the HD800 has never been priced on the site again.
This is the real Sennheiser.
-
So, one guy's actions paint an entire (and well respected) firm? I think I see the problem...
-
Price control is a pretty basic business practice. There are rules that retailers have to abide by, typically expressed in a contractual agreement of some sort. After all, the manfacturer of the product doesn't have to allow the retailer to sell any of its products. It is the retailer that wants to sell the product and thus entered a contractual agreement, which would include pricing agreements. So how is the manufacturer at fault for penalizing the retailer who was very likely breaching their contract?
-
The dealer was legal, every vendor inform the HD800 price, even Amazon.
On the other hand when I emailed the late HifiMan factory site-HeadDirect about the HE400 in October the man in charge of custumers inform me in advance that in the next black Friday in November this item would be on offer, so I waited for the black Friday.
The diligent man yet send me a friendly low invoice.
-
The dealer was legal, every vendor inform the HD800 price, even Amazon.
Just because a vendor is legal doesn't mean they can advertise a price of their choice at any given time. This is why you can typically get the best deals over the phone. That way the dealer can provide better pricing without advertising it to the public (which would undercut the vendor network). If all other vendors are following the pricing rules, but a vendor who decides not to (follow the rules) becomes wealthy from undercutting everyone else, this wouldn't be fair, right? That's the whole point of controlling the pricing and vendor agreements. Not to mention, this ensures the product being sold maintains a certain level of "perceived" value to the target consumer. This is important to the manufacturer of anything of relatively high value.
But, we're going way off on a tangent. The point is that Sennheiser is not an evil company as you were trying to say.
-
Of course the amp unit dont have Silver Hard Wire, it must use mass made PCBs IMO.
And from what do you deduce that critical piece of information? If you are convinced it is a worthless scam of mass-produced PCBs, and the price is outrageous and well beyond your limited means, why do you spend so much time and energy obsessing over it? :duh:
-
Agreed, not to mention the retractable tubes. What is the point of that? Consider the wiring to the tube sockets, they have to flex every time the amp is turned on and off. To whom does that seem like a good idea? That adds needless complexity that has to detract from reliability. That is my biggest issue with these: Not so much the price as the fact that they are as much about conspicuous consumption as about sound- if not more. They are attracting attention for all the wrong reasons and feeding the public perception of audiophiles (to the extent that there is a public perception of audiophiles) as neurotic spendthrift idiots. We are NOT idiots :roll:
This is all marketing from Sennheisser imo for their cheaper line of products. They know no one is going to buy it, but it will put their name on the map for the newer enthusiasts. It's like saying hey, we make stuff that are luxurious and costs so much, don't worry, we are sophisticated and engineering is excellent.
-
I was thinking about making the sacrifice of my possible future to get this thing, and what I would expect for my money. First, I wonder if the razor-sharp transients match well with the broad range of music in my collection, or whether I can find enough new music to make it worthwhile. I'm not at all enthusiastic about listening to ultra-resolution on a few titles, then switching back to mud to hear my existing favorites.
I would not be inclined to buy a Corvette or other high-performance car with an automatic transmission, and I'm not inclined to buy a desktop headphone system that doesn't allow me to grab the headphone NOW without intervening motors opening the box for me. The whole concept of sitting down and watching some automated gadget open doors and windows for me is offensive. An extremely well-made mechanical item is a rare pleasure to operate, whether an expensive Colt Python revolver or a made-in-Japan Honda circa 1997 with purely mechanical doors. Making it automatic like the newer Honda minivans is "soccer mom" stuff - not my kind of gear.
For $55k I want to feel closer to the music. Certain aspects of this design seem to push me further away.
First off, IME, the lower an overall system is in distortion and coloration, the better everything sounds. Of course, better recordings will sound better, but even the bad recordings will be very listenable, and if you enjoy the music, you'll enjoy the presentation.
Said another way, the more the system gets out of the way of the music, the better everything sounds.
Second, if you really have 55K to purchase this thing, I guarantee Sennheiser can accommodate around your issue with the tube and knob motors, by either presenting a switch to turn that function off, or removing it all together. These things are hand made, luxury, to order.
The dealer, and the company, will surely do all they can to get 55K from anyone.
-
I listened to a write up or video review of this product and it seems lots of research money was spent to bring this design to market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK6ilc1TMSo
Though with that said I will stick with my old HD420 possibly replacing the cord and ear speaker foam padding again one day.
-
Now even there is an new HD800 named HD800S which looks the same previous model ie ugly, but at even higher price:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZPj9F0y18
-
haaaaa, funny FullRangeMan
-
haaaaa, funny FullRangeMan
Not a joke, there is really a new HD800S.
This situation is absurdly Kafkaesque, the
thread the video mention reach 91 pages. :duh:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/785577/sennheiser-hd800s-unveiled
-
Yeah I agree that they don't expect to sell many, but I bet they sell quite a few. You wouldn't think there would be that many Wilson's, magico'so, MBL's.... On the market but yet there are. I think the headphone industry has realized that there is a market and they are capitalizing on it.
-
Now even there is an new HD800 named HD800S which looks the same previous model ie ugly, but at even higher price:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkZPj9F0y18
I don't mind the HD800 styling but even if I did, I can't see it while I'm wearing it so unless it's really hideous (like the ones from Blue), then WTF. Comfort and sound are equally important to me (if I don't find it comfortable, I don't care how it sounds) and styling is a distant fourth after build quality. I do tend to avoid bling-for-bling's-sake though, which unfortunately seems to be a growing trend in the headphone world.
-
I don't mind the HD800 styling but even if I did, I can't see it while I'm wearing it so unless it's really hideous (like the ones from Blue), then WTF. Comfort and sound are equally important to me (if I don't find it comfortable, I don't care how it sounds) and styling is a distant fourth after build quality. I do tend to avoid bling-for-bling's-sake though, which unfortunately seems to be a growing trend in the headphone world.
I agree and actually find the 800's to be one of the most comfortable phones