[roscoeiii]

Guess what, I think its about time to send this entire thread to the garbage bin.

I also ask that cheap-Jack refrain from posting on any further Audio by Van Alstine threads.

I will give this a couple more hours to simmer before trashing it.

Frank Van Alstine, designer of phono preamplifiers that actually are real and actually do work quite well. 

Good call to end this Frank. There is some good discussion here, amongst the other mess. Maybe could we trim the thread to keep the useful POVs on preamps? And end this back-and-forth with c-J (who seems to still be posting despite being asked to not post any further on AVA threads)?

[avahifi]

I have taken the the time to sift out the garbage from this thread, let me know if I have missed something too offensive.

Frank

[medium jim]

I have taken the the time to sift out the garbage from this thread, let me know if I have missed something too offensive.

Frank

Frank, you did an excellent job....too bad that you had to. 

Jim

[JerryM]

Frank's preamps really do rock.

I would love to have an AVA passive line stage, though. 

[avahifi]

I could build a passive preamplifier (volume control in box) with four sets of inputs, one set of outputs, and a precision 100K ohm stepped volume control for $200.

It could use the same basic chassis as we have done for the HumDinger, just different holes for jacks and controls.

It would not sound good though, not expensive enough.   

Frank Van Alstine

[doug s.]

I could build a passive preamplifier (volume control in box) with four sets of inputs, one set of outputs, and a precision 100K ohm stepped volume control for $200.

It could use the same basic chassis as we have done for the HumDinger, just different holes for jacks and controls.

It would not sound good though, not expensive enough.   

Frank Van Alstine

c'mon, frank, you know the real reason is not its low cost, but that it's not active.   

doug s.

[G Georgopoulos]

Hi Frank,you forgot to put a BALANCE control...

[JerryM]

I could build a passive preamplifier (volume control in box) with four sets of inputs, one set of outputs, and a precision 100K ohm stepped volume control for $200.

It could use the same basic chassis as we have done for the HumDinger, just different holes for jacks and controls.

It would not sound good though, not expensive enough.   

Frank Van Alstine

I'll call tomorrow to place my order.

Thanks, Frank. 

[trackball02]

Frank, Just wrap the same circuit in a fancy heavy shiny metal box, add some battery powered LED lights that do nothing, wood trim, heavy lead weights, etc, and you can sell it for 10X the price 

[medium jim]

Frank, Just wrap the same circuit in a fancy heavy shiny metal box, add some battery powered LED lights that do nothing, wood trim, heavy lead weights, etc, and you can sell it for 10X the price 

and if you powder coat the chassis with a color, 20x....

Jim

[werd]

Hi Werd, this is a picture of a home made TVP volume control I made with a small article  out of AudioXpress. I used 10K Goldpoint pots and transformers from Electroprint (PVE-3) from Jack Elliano, Jan.05 issue. I used an old Dyna PAM-1 chassis,which has holes already drilled for more switchability later on, like when I get to it. I don't  own a DAC yet,but have had it hooked up to my Dyna-35 and it sounds pretty good to me using cd's. I got a better picture of the finished TVP, but I only know how to put a picture on one at a time. Cheap Jack, the way I interfaced my passive preamp with my subwoofer is without a crossover. I do have an old Ace 5000 and a Shadow Mark4 a Audiomart pen pal made,the prototype.Parts Express gave me the answer. Y-cables. From the outputs of my cd player I attached 2 Y-cables, Monster,not that exspensive. One pair goes to the Dyna-ST-35, and the other pair goes to my subs amp, a Canadian BASH sub,not much over 100 bucks. The BASH, Parts Express,has a built in low or high pass filter,I don't know which is correct, to cut out anything to the sub from 50 to 150 hz. It is adjustable. So the only thing in the path of the great sound of tubes is a nice clean extra Monster cable, not a exspensive crossover. My favorite cd for sub listening is the Wicked, the broadway hit. It explodes with music right from the start. Frank, when the economy gets a little better for me, save one of your preamps for me,your stuff always sounds stunning! I'm still trying to get those PAM's running and until,I got a PAS-2,the Last PAS mod version,to put in a good 250k volume pot and gold jacks for the back. Then I can make my own musical comparison with passive vs. active. Thanks you guys for all the info I'm learning. Now it's off to the boiled dinner. I have already consumed a loaf of Irish soda bread in 2 days. I feel like a human biscuit. After today it's back to Sparta, my roomate used to say that when he'd go back to the gym.Thanks loads....Mark K.

Right on

nicer homer. Mine is pro built with S&B toroidal transformers that hardwires every volume step  on the volume dial with the two transformers.  Its pretty nice and looks great. its also switchable between 6 and 12 db.

[werd]

Werd:  Not sure that's actually the case or the problem. Correct me if I am mistaken but it's basically a digital volume control, no ? I suspect that because a lot of the music I listen to is mastered "hot" and compressed, I can't really open the taps on the attenuator and keep listening volumes at a comfortable level.  Using the K-03 on its own running direct to the amps rather than putting my active pre into the chain doesn't sound bad, it just doesn't sound as good.  I'm going to have to try comparing using some less- compressed source material and see what I come up with. Again, I don't think it's a question of this pre adding an undue amount of colouration- I have a nice SS preamp here as well and the Manley with it's current tube configuration is more neutral-sounding by a healthy margin. You would be surprised at how little that unit resembles the stereotypical "tube" sound in this system. Perhaps the digital volume control, like a passive pre, doesn't bring some of the benefits to the table that Mr. Van Alstine has mentioned earlier in the thread in promoting the use of a quality active preamp.

c-J: No response required or requested. Thank you in advance for your consideration.

D.D.

Well the problem with them is they cant drive a power amp 20 to 20khz with authority.  They sound saggy compared to a good active pre. They do have excellent resolution though.  Using a TPV pre will fix this and maintain  the resolution due to its impedance buffering characteristics.

[medium jim]

Put it this way, if you like tube amplification, you will need some gain in your preamp...

Jim

[opnly bafld]

Put it this way, if you like tube amplification, you will need some gain in your preamp...

3 (out of 5) of my tube amps disagree. 

[Early B.]

The source will always be the most important component. The greatest preamp on the planet, active or passive, can't fix a mediocre source.

[G Georgopoulos]

Put it this way, if you like tube amplification, you will need some gain in your preamp...

Jim

I have seen few preamps using variable gain (1,2..etc),but my question Jim is why we need gain in tube
amplification?,can you please explain?

[roscoeiii]

I will take a guess that gain added to tube amplification will lead to less tube related noise. IME, the lower gain in a tube amp, the better. As long as your overall system has sufficient gain. 

[medium jim]

I will take a guess that gain added to tube amplification will lead to less tube related noise. IME, the lower gain in a tube amp, the better. As long as your overall system has sufficient gain.

True...I tried running directly from my amps (when I had monoblocks) to my CDP, and it was not so good.  My Bottlehead has 10db of gain and it is sufficient to do what I need.

Jim

[G Georgopoulos]

I will take a guess that gain added to tube amplification will lead to less tube related noise.

Hi roscoeiii, no!,the amplification will amplify the noise as well as the audio signal...

Have another guess 

[Diamond Dog]

Well the problem with them is they cant drive a power amp 20 to 20khz with authority.  They sound saggy compared to a good active pre.

Well, you got me curious enough to do some audio-guy stuff ie: disconnect my pre and run the K-03 direct into my monos using the on-board attenuator. I also checked the specs on this thing - 2.45 vRMS via either RCA or Balanced so I think it'll drive power amps without issue. Audiofool duty having been accomplished, now I'm listening to the new Bowie album ( it's very good BTW ) and now that it's run in a bit and warmed up, it actually sounds bloody good...I've owned a few SS preamps ( and still own one that's pretty cool ) and heard plenty more but this actually sounds better than what I remember. Not a bit of steeliness or brightness, really nice tight bass with mucho slam, excellent detail...the one area where the Manley has an obvious edge is that it conjures up a monstrous soundstage and a more 3-D presentation. It probably gives up a little on the bottom end, but with 300B's, well duh...not the first choice of bass-freaks, I would venture. Still, Werd, not too shabby and better than I recall. File this under " Things that make you go Hmmm..."
Gonna listen some more.    

D.D.