Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker

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FullRangeMan

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #20 on: 28 Apr 2019, 03:02 pm »
I think there is no SET friendly speaker with xover, they are awful.

planet10

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #21 on: 28 Apr 2019, 04:40 pm »
There are certainly some that get the impedance flat… which is the key for any speaker used with any amp that has a hihish output impedance (most SETs). way more important than (often over-) rated efficiency.

dave

FullRangeMan

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #22 on: 29 Apr 2019, 02:13 pm »
The famous among tube lovers Klipsch RF7II by 101dB sensitivity and strong bass, has a similar impedance(black) and phase(green) chart, the 2 way xover are 1100kHz, seems the minimum impedance is under 4Ω at 150Hz due two parallel woofers, its beyond me why this speaker are rated 8Ω.
Wonder what is the 3kHz peak?


genjamon

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #23 on: 29 Apr 2019, 05:03 pm »
Dave,

Great point of course. Manufacturers state stuff like "nominal 8 ohm impedance." What in the world does that mean? Nuts. The fact is, unless the speaker is measured by Sphile, Soundstage!, etc...you will not know. Most manufacturers don't reveal it.

I measure all my speakers for both impedance and phase which gives me an extraordinary amount of information and suggestions for amplifier compatibility as phase angle and impedance are both important as is sensitivity over a given frequency range. In other words, I don't care if a speaker is 2 ohms at 20 Hz or 20khz but I do care about the impedance and phase curve over the region where most music is played, i.e. 40Hz to 10khz.

With the Tekton Double Impact Monitor measurements you have posted, a typical SET amplifier will sound excessively forward in the upper midrange (due to the high impedance), and lacking in the lower midrange and upper midbass. The frequency response curve will most definitely be affected in that range if using an SET to drive that speaker.

But honestly dave, most folks don't care about those details.

Best,
Anand.

Yeah, I've just recently had an illuminating experience along these lines with my Zu Omen Dirty Weekends.  Zu started offering resistors for sale to place across the binding posts to bring more uniformity to the impedance curve.  This led me to look into the impedance curve for the first time, and found this:


https://www.zuaudio.com/diy/loading25r

So while Zu gives the characteristic impedance, I thought I'd calculate the high and low impedances by hand based on that Superfly graph, since the main driver in the DW's is pretty much the same as the Superfly, with different cabinet loading.  I ended up going with two 25 ohm resistors, which my my calculations brought the high impedance down from 45 ohms to around 9 ohms.  And the low impedance only dropped to around 4 ohms.  So, a 4-9 ohm range from a 7-44 ohm range. 

But most crucially, it muted that gradually rising impedance from midbass to upper midrange by quite a lot.  And sure enough, the speakers don't sound nearly as uptight and constricted on my 845 SET amp, which would be the effect of a frequency response imbalance toward the upper midrange, but now have opened up and breathe nicely.  I used to need to use a solid state amp with these speakers to get a satisfying presentation.  No longer.

dburna

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #24 on: 29 Apr 2019, 05:19 pm »
Yeah, I've just recently had an illuminating experience along these lines with my Zu Omen Dirty Weekends.  Zu started offering resistors for sale to place across the binding posts to bring more uniformity to the impedance curve.  This led me to look into the impedance curve for the first time, and found this:

So while Zu gives the characteristic impedance, I thought I'd calculate the high and low impedances by hand based on that Superfly graph, since the main driver in the DW's is pretty much the same as the Superfly, with different cabinet loading.  I ended up going with two 25 ohm resistors, which my my calculations brought the high impedance down from 45 ohms to around 9 ohms.  And the low impedance only dropped to around 4 ohms.  So, a 4-9 ohm range from a 7-44 ohm range. 

But most crucially, it muted that gradually rising impedance from midbass to upper midrange by quite a lot.  And sure enough, the speakers don't sound nearly as uptight and constricted on my 845 SET amp, which would be the effect of a frequency response imbalance toward the upper midrange, but now have opened up and breathe nicely.  I used to need to use a solid state amp with these speakers to get a satisfying presentation.  No longer.

Which brings up a very relevant question: shouldn't the designers of said speaker have figured this out (and addressed it) prior to releasing this for sale? I wonder what happened to the concept of releasing a speaker when it is truly ready for prime-time, not before.   :duh:

-dGB

Wind Chaser

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #25 on: 29 Apr 2019, 05:58 pm »
There are certainly some (speakers with crossovers) that get the impedance flat… which is the key for any speaker used with any amp that has a hihish output impedance (most SETs) which is way more important than (often over-) rated efficiency.

Yes, that is very true. The curve below isn’t as bad as it looks, and despite having a crossover and a bump around 900 Hz, these speakers with a SET did the mids and top end better than FR single driver I’ve heard.



FullRangeMan

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #26 on: 29 Apr 2019, 06:39 pm »
Which brings up a very relevant question: shouldn't the designers of said speaker have figured this out (and addressed it) prior to releasing this for sale? I wonder what happened to the concept of releasing a speaker when it is truly ready for prime-time, not before.   :duh:

-dGB
This is the usual procedure in home audio, compact disc was made by 2 big corp and  hi freq sound quality are poor, the whole system barely works, this happen even in military jets, some models are famous by its design flaws.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #27 on: 29 Apr 2019, 06:44 pm »
Which brings up a very relevant question: shouldn't the designers of said speaker have figured this out (and addressed it) prior to releasing this for sale? I wonder what happened to the concept of releasing a speaker when it is truly ready for prime-time, not before.   :duh:

-dGB

Bingo. Which is why I am keeping my current speakers!

Best,
Anand.

Wind Chaser

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #28 on: 29 Apr 2019, 10:13 pm »
Bingo. Which is why I am keeping my current speakers!

Good idea, better to wait for the MK-II version.  :lol:

Stercom

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #29 on: 29 Apr 2019, 11:18 pm »
If anyone wants to hear this tweeter array let me know.  I use the Impact Monitors with a pair of Rythmik subs.  I’m in Charlotte, NC. 

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #30 on: 30 Apr 2019, 12:39 am »
If anyone wants to hear this tweeter array let me know.  I use the Impact Monitors with a pair of Rythmik subs.  I’m in Charlotte, NC.

I’m there!

We need to hang out anyway. I think I have your email too and I am curious about Eric Alexander’s designs and approach.

Best,
Anand.

Stercom

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #31 on: 30 Apr 2019, 02:46 am »
Great, Anand! Shoot me an email and let me know when's best for you.

bladesmith

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #32 on: 30 Apr 2019, 03:09 am »
I think there is no SET friendly speaker with xover, they are awful.

Would it be better to have a SET amp for your main driver, then a separate amp/woofer to handle the lows..?

V...

planet10

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #33 on: 30 Apr 2019, 03:36 am »
That would get rid of the passive XO which is most often the cause of ugly impedance above resonance.

This is the rational behind WAW (Woofer Assited Wideband / AKA FAST). XO at line level typically at 200-400 Hz, it also gets rid of the incoherence invoked by a tweeter + midbass.

dave

FullRangeMan

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #34 on: 30 Apr 2019, 09:07 am »
Would it be better to have a SET amp for your main driver, then a separate amp/woofer to handle the lows..?

V...
I believe most music lovers will like this approach.

hibuckhobby

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #35 on: 30 Apr 2019, 02:29 pm »
I tend to believe Eric Alexander knows what he's doing. At least far more than
most armchair experts that are often ready with an opinion.
Just my opinion :)
Hibuck...

bladesmith

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #36 on: 30 Apr 2019, 03:17 pm »
I believe most music lovers will like this approach.

Agreed...

Mojo Warrior

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Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #37 on: 1 May 2019, 04:05 pm »
I favor the approach of letting the loudspeakers to speak for themselves. The opinions of people who have never heard the speaker are worthless. The opinions of those who have are just that, opinions. Everyone's taste in loudspeakers are personal. Tekton's policy of a 60 day free trial is quite generous and uncommon in the audio industry.

Stercom

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #38 on: 1 May 2019, 04:58 pm »
I agree its always best to actually hear a stereo component before forming an opinion on sound quality but I've found the discussion here on the history of this type of speaker and its inherent strengths and/or shortcomings to be helpful. Especially since the discussion has been civil. They clearly know more about speaker design than I do and that's what these boards are for.

sunnydaze

Re: Tekton's The Perfect SET Speaker
« Reply #39 on: 1 May 2019, 05:36 pm »
...... Tekton's policy of a 60 day free trial is quite generous and uncommon in the audio industry.

It speaks to the mfr's confidence is his product.

Off the top of my head, Buchardt and Zu also offer generous risk-free audition periods.  I believe Buchardt even pays shipping in both directions.  Virtually unheard of in the industry.