Shuguang Treasure 'Black Bottle' 6CA7Z and Genalex KT-77's

cryoparts · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 07:32 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 11 Feb 2009, 03:10 pm

I did not see the "group buy" cryo mentions on your website, only a 300b deal ending yesterday. Maybe post details on discounts in the Industry Talk section? It can't go here.

I don't know if Ian offers these cryo'd yet. I need to get these burnt in and then cryo them to see how they respond before I even consider offering cryo on these tubes to end users.

Quote from: richidoo on 11 Feb 2009, 03:10 pm

I'm especially interested in the inner detail of these tubes.

Me too. Not quite there yet, but they are still basically "new".

I am am inner detail freak, that is why I love the Sonicweld speaker system so much as use it as my absolute reference as they are just phenomenal a laying a recording bare and allowing one to really see into the acoustic space.

If the M520 amp, fitted with these tubes, even approaches the same "universe" of detail retrieval as the Sonciweld system, I will be a happy camper as, in the grand scheme of things, the M520/Shuguang is a budget system.

Peace,

Lee

cryoparts · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 07:33 pm »

They are pricey, indeed. However, they are made incredibly well. I, for one, don't think they are overpriced. But, that's my opinion...

Peace,

Lee

Quote from: mcullinan on 11 Feb 2009, 03:20 pm

They are way overpriced. They arent NOS and I just dont see why they should be so expensive.
They better best the best NOS out there for the price.
Mike

cryoparts · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 07:38 pm »

Quote from: DavidS on 11 Feb 2009, 04:25 pm

2. I have read mixed reviews on cryoed tubes. Would be interesting to hear similarly broken in stock EL34s and cryoed EL34s. Will look forward to Lee's impressions as he reports on both.

Will do.

Please keep in mind when reading my opinions that I do cryo treating as part of my business, so I am sold on its efficacy. However, if it makes little or no difference with these tubes, I will report that. And, heaven forbid, it makes them worse, I will report that as well. I'm doing this as a fun project, a diversion if you will, to kick start my enthusiasm again for inexpensive gear and so I will try the best I can to keep my personal biases at bay.

Peace,

Lee

mcullinan · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 07:45 pm »

Ill be looking forward to your opinions, and if you can compare them to NOS youve heard and any currect production tubes. Thanks.
Mike

cryoparts · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 07:49 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 11 Feb 2009, 07:45 pm

Ill be looking forward to your opinions, and if you can compare them to NOS youve heard and any currect production tubes. Thanks.
Mike

You got it. I have some winged C's here, some Genalex KT77's on the way and I will order some new Mullards, Tung Sol's and JJ's in to compare.

I wish I had a set of NOS Mullard's, or the like, however, I don't. I'll contact Bill at Morningstar Audio to see what he has available, he always has the coolest tubes...

Peace,

Lee

Bill O'Connell · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 09:37 pm »

I would stay away from the JJ KT77's as they are a little to zippy on top for my liking, but the new Genelex re-issue KT77's seem to be a little sweeter on top plus I like their midrange and bottom end better.YMMV

Look forward to your impressions of the Shuang Treasures

cryoparts · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 12:51 am »

I have a set of the Genalex KT-77's on the way due to your recommendation. I figure I'll order the other sets in for grins, they are all very affordable.

Peace,

Lee

Quote from: Bill O'Connell on 11 Feb 2009, 09:37 pm

I would stay away from the JJ KT77's as they are a little to zippy on top for my liking, but the new Genelex re-issue KT77's seem to be a little sweeter on top plus I like their midrange and bottom end better.YMMV

Look forward to your impressions of the Shuang Treasures

cryoparts · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 12:52 am »

Oops...

iGrant · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 01:38 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 11 Feb 2009, 03:20 pm

They are way overpriced. They arent NOS and I just dont see why they should be so expensive.
They better best the best NOS out there for the price.
Mike

Hi Mike,

At the prices set by the factory, they expect a return on their investment in about 5 years, obviously in it for the long haul. It has taken years of development, retooling and testing to get these to market and there is more flavours coming, next is the 2A3. The concept is to have a new production high-quality tube that compares to the finest ever made in each flavour offered. These tubes are also the cream of the crop, internally matched then matched as pairs or quads and then will be checked again by GF with an AT-1000 tester. No expense is being spared except for the luxury case, which we dropped to keep the customers cost within reach.

IMO there is no such thing as a 'best' tube, great for your application/system/ears is all one can realistically hope for. I have suggested to others that have rightfully said, 'damn they are expensive' to think of the current market of tubes. EL-34 NOS that we lust after have gone over $200 each, with little or no warranty and ours yop can get with a one year warranty. If you happen to run NOS in your amp, wouldn't it be nice to have something that is at the same quality, readily available and keep your prized NOS for special occasions?. Guitar players are catching on with the ever increasing prices of NOS, run something else for practise and live and keep the NOS for the studio. EAT tubes are about twice the price of the new Shuguangs.

These tubes from Shuguang could help keep the price of NOS in check, it's getting to the point where I can't justify the cost of great NOS anymore, fortunately I've got options from both TJ Full Music and Shuguang now.

Cheers,
Ian

cryoparts · « **Reply #29 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 08:08 pm »

Tubes are still changing, opening up and smoothing out. Detail is really starting to come around!

In fact, the Eastern Electric M520 with the Shuguang Treasures is sounding so nice that I am going to hook it up to my set of custom passive Sonicweld speakers--these are a custom ultra high end passive monitor system that were built as a one off for me (although he may build more if someone wanted) so I that could use the amplification of my choice and compare amplifiers. These speakers are amazingly transparent and the finest passive monitor speakers I have heard. They will lay bare any changes and allow me to "really" hear what is going on with the new tubes...and anything else in the signal chain.

Seems strange to hook an $1800 amp with $600 worth of tubes into a $15k set of speakers (but I have a $5k power cable on the amp, so who ever said I was sane...), but I will report the results soon. I'll snap some pictures of the setup soon as well.

Peace,

Lee

mcullinan · « **Reply #30 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 08:14 pm »

Ill probably end up buying some when the wife isnt looking haha...
Mike

cryoparts · « **Reply #31 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 08:15 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 15 Feb 2009, 08:14 pm

Ill probably end up buying some when the wife isnt looking haha...
Mike

Ha! Tell GF to pack them discreetly in a "plain brown box"!

Peace,

Lee

cryoparts · « **Reply #32 on:** 18 Feb 2009, 02:03 am »

Was able to do a little listening today and the Treasure's are really starting to live up to their name. Very smooth, open and airy. Detail is coming around, there is much more inner detail than a couple of days ago.

Really looking up! Will update again in a few days.

Peace,

Lee

richidoo · « **Reply #33 on:** 18 Feb 2009, 04:15 am »

Nice Lee!
Hey, how's the bass?
Thanks

cryoparts · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 Feb 2009, 02:46 am »

Nice so far. Was a bit tubby the first 100-150 hours. Really tightening up now and has good pitch definition and depth. I'll make sure to mention the bass next update.

Peace,

Lee

Quote from: richidoo on 18 Feb 2009, 04:15 am

Nice Lee!
Hey, how's the bass?
Thanks

marvda1 · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Feb 2009, 02:57 am »

hello lee, how do they compare to the electro harmonix 6ca7's ?

cryoparts · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Feb 2009, 03:25 am »

Haven't compared them to the EH's yet.

I started out with the Winged C EL34's, which the Shuguang's are just beating up on (at least in this amp, to my ears), unmercifully--they are in a whole different league than the C's, which is a highly regarded set of tubes.

Next up, while I am cryo treating the Shuguangs's will be the Genalex KT-77's. However, I plan on leaving the Shuguang's in for another 200 hours, at least, before cryo'ing them.

Peace,

Lee

Quote from: marvda1 on 20 Feb 2009, 02:57 am

hello lee, how do they compare to the electro harmonix 6ca7's ?

cryoparts · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Feb 2009, 09:19 pm »

Quick update.

Tubes are really evening out now. Haven't heard a great deal of change over the last two days, so maybe they are finally run in. I will listen critically over the next few days and post some impressions soon.

Richidoo--bass is really nice now. Tight, controlled, good pitch definition and a minimum of overhang. The last 100 hours, or so, the bass has transformed.

Marvin--They are clearly better, to my ears (in this amp) than the winged C's.

That's all for now.

Peace,

Lee

cryoparts · « **Reply #38 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 03:33 am »

I'll post an update this weekend, or early next week on these tubes, they have really settled in nicely.

They are not going anywhere, I'll say that much! If the group buy is still going on, get in on it.

Lee

richidoo · « **Reply #39 on:** 28 Feb 2009, 04:06 am »

Thanks Lee

Glad you're enjoying them so much!!