Isolation materials

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floresjc

Isolation materials
« on: 1 May 2009, 10:30 am »
I've been checking out all kinds of racks stands and platforms, and one thing that I see continually is that maple wood is considered the best wood to have a rack or isolation platform made out of. Its supposed to be far better than cherry, walnut, or etc that you might buy. Is this a known truth, I have a hard time gathering the source of this info, both manufacturers and customers alike seem to propagate this. Just curious.

Photon46

Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #1 on: 1 May 2009, 04:02 pm »
If you care too, search the archives over at Audiogon about this subject. This subject has been the subject of much discussion & debate over the course of months & years. My take on it is this. Maple sounds good in many applications, it is easy to source, & relatively inexpensive. In other words, it meets the needs of manufacturers to balance cost & performance. I use maple platforms extensively in my system and like the results. I'd like to experiment with Sitka spruce as that also is reputed to sound excellent. But, it's expensive and easily dented, so manufacturers would be reluctant to use it. It's well known the folks at Mapleshade Audio insist that maple is vastly superior. Maybe, but you have to take proclamations like that with a grain of salt IMO.

JLM

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Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #2 on: 1 May 2009, 05:33 pm »
I'm old school, so have a hard time spending serious money on equipment racks (beyond the obvious applications for turntables on soft floors).  So I'd like to see an unbiased comparison test of racks to find out if any golden ear can tell the difference in racks made of maple, glass, steel, concrete, etc. 

The really stupid part is that we've all seen examples of audiophiles that have dumped money into the rack, but have it sitting on soft wooden floors in an awful room with the speakers vibrating back to the rack.

IMO stiff racks with floor points belong on concrete floors and "soft" equipment platforms/racks/footers belong on soft floors.  And that's about all I have to say about that.

If you're really serious about isolation, put the equipment in another room (or another building).

floresjc

Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #3 on: 1 May 2009, 05:46 pm »
I'm not really serious about isolation, but in just looking at racks, it seems many people are. And once exposed to that, I found the never ending stories and industry propaganda as maple as the end all be all of materials. Just a curiosity for me really. In terms of a rack, I'm looking for something sturdy and spacious, and my wife just has to like the look. I'm pretty intrigued with just a simple cherry shelf system from TimberNation, but that brouhaha was quite interesting and thought I'd get a take from some of the Salk owners.

JLM

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Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #4 on: 1 May 2009, 07:13 pm »
For my small/minimalistic system I use this $30 Ikea bedside table (without the wheels):

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90120545

Photon46

Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #5 on: 1 May 2009, 07:19 pm »
From the perspective of my set of ears, there's no doubt that different components react differently to what they sit on. My Aloia preamp, Music Reference preamp, Assemblage dac, and Marantz SA11S1 are all relatively little affected by what what they sit on. At least from what I've tried of stands and footers. But my VPI Scout and RAM modified PS Audio HCA-2 are affected dramatically by what they sit on. Not hard to understand the turntable, but the amp surprised me with it's sensitivity to racks & footers.

audiotom

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Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #6 on: 6 May 2009, 04:23 pm »
for major isolation for minimal money

try the Silent Running Audio VR series stands

made for your specific component

will take the stress right out of your system and let your components sing
better than a lot of major component upgrades


KS

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Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #7 on: 6 May 2009, 05:05 pm »
IMO stiff racks with floor points belong on concrete floors and "soft" equipment platforms/racks/footers belong on soft floors. 

Consider that resilient footers will conform better to imperfect contact with a rigid floor than most of us can adjust four hard points of contact.  Also consider whether one wishes to couple or isolate the equipment from the floor or rack.  Hard points couple to the structure.  Resilient contacts isolate.  I prefer isolation unless there is a reason to couple.  The sounding board quality of a hard maple plank might be a reason...or maybe not.

Zheeeem

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Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #8 on: 7 May 2009, 12:41 am »
To tell the truth, I never gave all that much thought to which wood sounds better for a rack.  I've been thinking that I didn't really want my rack to sound at all.

For my turntable, I built a 1 inch MDF shelf into the wall.  Then I put a cutting board on some sorbothane hemispheres, and the TT on the cutting board.  It works well, and the TT is isolated from everything except "airborne" vibration.

My equipment rack is made from fine imported French stone.  Well, actually I bought the stone while I lived in France, and it's a common building material for doorways, window frames, etc.  I ended up with enough stone cut to order for a rack for the big rig and another for the HT, all at about 1/2 the price of a single "audiophile" rack.  It looks good, is very inert, and, well, holds the gear.

avahifi

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Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #9 on: 7 May 2009, 10:14 pm »
My rule for damping and isolation materials:  meatballs don't bounce.

Franki Van Alstine

Christof

Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #10 on: 8 May 2009, 12:25 am »
My rule for damping and isolation materials:  meatballs don't bounce.

Franki Van Alstine

Neither do unhappy balls  :lol: 

floresjc,

Here is my take....
You can get all fancy pants or you can diy a simple rack with two platforms and a set of 4 unhappy balls between them.  My last TT rack was made from two solid wood panels, basically cutting boards, with 4 shallow holes(depressions) about 1/2" dia x 1/4" deep drilled in the bottom of the top cutting board, just inside the corners.  I placed an unhappy ball in each depression and set the cutting board on top of another cutting board.  The bottom cutting board had spikes to couple it to the floor.  I did a very simple experiment to see how well this worked.  I should preface and say that when you buy the unhappy balls from the science store for $4.00 they send one happy ball and one unhappy ball, together in the same package...kind of a yin yang thing.  After making my platforms I put the happy (bouncy) balls in position and placed a glass of water on top of the platform.  I then hit the hardwood floor next to the platform with my knuckles (lightly, like knocking on a door) and the water moved about.  I swapped the happy balls out for unhappy balls and tried the same thing...the water moved but much less.   I did the experiment over with very light knocking, which was much more vibration than my TT would ever experience during normal listening, no movement in the water glass.  The point is meatballs don't bounce and neither do unhappy balls.


brj

Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #11 on: 8 May 2009, 03:42 am »
If you call Arbor Scientific directly, you can order the "unhappy balls" (norbornene) alone - or at least you could a couple of years ago when I ordered a bunch.

AliG

Re: Isolation materials
« Reply #12 on: 8 May 2009, 06:47 am »
maple?! Been there, done that! I was just like you, reading all these 'hype' about maple, so I spent 1 grand on a 'maple' rack built by timbernation. It is the worst 1 grand I have ever spent. :o The sound it made on all my components (Turntable, CD players, amp, preamp) were simply aweful. Compare to my other DIY rack (built with Borneo Ironwood). On hindsight, I was stupid to ask Timbernation to color the rack black, because I have no means to tell whether it's a real 'maple' or not. :scratch:

You want to know my take on isolation material, read here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61341.0

I've been checking out all kinds of racks stands and platforms, and one thing that I see continually is that maple wood is considered the best wood to have a rack or isolation platform made out of. Its supposed to be far better than cherry, walnut, or etc that you might buy. Is this a known truth, I have a hard time gathering the source of this info, both manufacturers and customers alike seem to propagate this. Just curious.