Salk Subwoofer

sfox7076 · « **on:** 10 Mar 2009, 02:26 pm »

As some of you know, I have been enamored with my Songtowers and surrounds. However, I have not had an easy time getting my subwoofer to blend well with these speakers. I have been using a Hsu VTF-2 first generation. So I went into the market to look for a new sub. I looked at spending about $1000-1300 total. I looked into the usual suspects, including HSU, SVS, Rythmik and the SongSub. Well, after reading reviews, I thought that the answer for my space was the Rythmik or the Song. I do have to say that I had a bad experience with SVS in the past, so that weighed a bit on my decision. I was curious about the songsub, especially because it would match my speakers, but it had no reviews. I emailed back and forth with Jim, and he told me that he had planned on building a sub with Rythmik's design to evaluate their product design, etc. If I was interested he would order the internals from Rythmik based on the woofer size I wanted and build the sub in the cherry veneer of my speakers. Needless to say, i was floored. Jim is building a down firing 15" from the Rythmik design for me. Not sure if he will be tweaking it at all(though knowing how Jim operates, I am sure that the design will be reviewed and tweaked if he thinks it merits it), but I am floored to take delivery. Not sure when that will happen, but I cannot wait.

Shawn

OgOgilby · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Mar 2009, 06:37 pm »

That is very cool. Not many companies provide that kind of service

TJHUB · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 03:11 am »

That's really great for you!

Nothing like having Jim finish off what should be a really great sub.

I'm surprised to read you had issues with SVS. Granted, I've never had an issue for them to deal with, but I can't imagine they didn't take care of a customer. Just seems strange...

I'd like to comment on the subwoofer "blending" your having an issue with. It's my opinion that your real issue is not the sub, it's your room. A subwoofer is really a victim of the room it's in. If the sub's frequency response is not respectably flat, it most likely will not blend well with your main speakers. You may have a null or some sort of peak causing issues for you. Did you do any measurements? Experiment with placement?

I would NEVER run a subwoofer in my setup without some sort of EQ'ing. I run a Behringer Feedback Destroyer and I use Room EQ Wizard to measure and tune my sub. You would be amazed how well an EQ'd sub blends with your main speakers. Of course it's not the only factor in getting your sub blended with your main speakers, but it goes an incredibly long way to the goal.

HSU subs sound very good, but there is little doubt that the Rythmik will best it in sound quality. However, I doubt the Rythmik will naturally blend better with your main speakers. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Enjoy the Rythmik. It should sound incredible and look even better with Jim's help. You lucky bastage!

doug s. · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 02:00 pm »

shawn - before it's too late - get two subs. so much better than one sub, for so many different reasons. if size/budget is an issue, then get two 12" subs instead of one 15" subs. the results will be way worth it.

doug s.

sfox7076 · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 02:08 pm »

While I agree, SWMBO does not. We live in New York. Having one in my apartment is viewed as an accommodation by her. So I am stuck with 1.

Nuance · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 02:33 pm »

The Rythmik/Songsub will probably best the HSU in sound quality, sure, but you'll notice a much bigger difference if it's EQ'd.

I am with Terry on this one; do yourself a favor and pick up a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It'll cost you $100 or less and you'll be able to hear what a good subwoofer can really do. If your PC doesn't have a suitable soundcard and you want to run REW, you'll have to get an external soundcard with at least one input and output. You can find some decent and cheap ones online.

Do let us know how that sweet subwoofer sounds. Knowing Jim, he'll tweak it for ya. Enjoy!

doug s. · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: sfox7076 on 11 Mar 2009, 02:08 pm

While I agree, SWMBO does not. We live in New York. Having one in my apartment is viewed as an accommodation by her. So I am stuck with 1.

why does "swmbo" have such a similarity to "bimbo"? hmmmm....

two smaller subs may be more easily placed (hidden) in a room than a single large one.

doug s.

fluke242 · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 03:50 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 11 Mar 2009, 02:33 pm

The Rythmik/Songsub will probably best the HSU in sound quality, sure, but you'll notice a much bigger difference if it's EQ'd.

I am with Terry on this one; do yourself a favor and pick up a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It'll cost you $100 or less and you'll be able to hear what a good subwoofer can really do. If your PC doesn't have a suitable soundcard and you want to run REW, you'll have to get an external soundcard with at least one input and output. You can find some decent and cheap ones online.

Do let us know how that sweet subwoofer sounds. Knowing Jim, he'll tweak it for ya. Enjoy!

Only a $100?! Just read up quickly on the unit but had a couple Q's. Are you using this for subwoofer only or other purposes? And would this be active or passive installation?

Thanks, Nuance.

John

sfox7076 · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 05:24 pm »

My wife and I only have MacBooks, so I assume I would need a usb sound card. Also, the Rythmik has a PEQ in it. Not sure it is great though.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 07:15 pm »

Quote from: doug s. on 11 Mar 2009, 03:03 pm

why does "swmbo" have such a similarity to "bimbo"? hmmmm.... doug s.

SWMBO is She Who Must Be Obeyed. I thought SWMBO lived here with me, but she must commute to New York when I am not paying attention. (BTW, my SWMBO, a graduate of a top-tier law school, is not a bimbo, and she would rip the heart out, in a nice ladylike way, of course, of any man who called her such.)

sfox7076 · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 07:41 pm »

I am the law graduate in the family. I'm a corporate bankruptcy lawyer. She's an elementary school teacher. And she is fantastic, just doesn't love it if I do things like buy audio equipment to put all our living room... 1 sub is all I can have. But, there is plenty of other negotiating to do.

Nuance · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 08:00 pm »

Quote from: fluke242 on 11 Mar 2009, 03:50 pm

Quote from: Nuance on 11 Mar 2009, 02:33 pm
The Rythmik/Songsub will probably best the HSU in sound quality, sure, but you'll notice a much bigger difference if it's EQ'd.

I am with Terry on this one; do yourself a favor and pick up a Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It'll cost you $100 or less and you'll be able to hear what a good subwoofer can really do. If your PC doesn't have a suitable soundcard and you want to run REW, you'll have to get an external soundcard with at least one input and output. You can find some decent and cheap ones online.

Do let us know how that sweet subwoofer sounds. Knowing Jim, he'll tweak it for ya. Enjoy!

Only a $100?! Just read up quickly on the unit but had a couple Q's. Are you using this for subwoofer only or other purposes? And would this be active or passive installation?

Thanks, Nuance.

John

This is being used only on the subwoofer (I didn't get the more expensive unit, so I can't EQ my entire system with it...nor would I, but that's a different topic). The BFD is active and sets the filters which allow the sub to be EQ'd as flat as you can get it. You can do auto filters or manual filters if using REW (Room EQ Wizard).

Hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you do go this route, and I will try to help you through it (I just learned the whole process myself this week, and the sound difference is AMAZING).

doug s. · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 08:00 pm »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 11 Mar 2009, 07:15 pm

Quote from: doug s. on 11 Mar 2009, 03:03 pm
why does "swmbo" have such a similarity to "bimbo"? hmmmm.... doug s.

SWMBO is She Who Must Be Obeyed. I thought SWMBO lived here with me, but she must commute to New York when I am not paying attention. (BTW, my SWMBO, a graduate of a top-tier law school, is not a bimbo, and she would rip the heart out, in a nice ladylike way, of course, of any man who called her such.)

yes, i know what swmbo stands for; yust commenting on how close it is to bimbo.

i quit lie, uh, i mean law school in the middle of my second year, thank god.

doug s.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 08:23 pm »

Quote from: doug s. on 11 Mar 2009, 08:00 pm

i quit lie, uh, i mean law school in the middle of my second year, thank god. doug s.

You must have attended a different law school than the school that I attended and where I teach. I was taught that lying is forbidden and is grounds for disbarment. Obviously, your dropping out of law school was a good decision.

doug s. · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 08:52 pm »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 11 Mar 2009, 08:23 pm

Quote from: doug s. on 11 Mar 2009, 08:00 pm
i quit lie, uh, i mean law school in the middle of my second year, thank god. doug s.

You must have attended a different law school than the school that I attended and where I teach. I was taught that lying is forbidden and is grounds for disbarment. Obviously, your dropping out of law school was a good decision.

there is what is taught, and then, there is what is taught...

when i went to lie school, the entire freshman class of 1982 - nationwide - was surveyed; one of the questions was:

"what is the #1 main reason you wanted to go to law school?"

fully 92% answered... can you guess...?

"#1 reason i wanted to go to law school was to make a lot of money."

i went to law school cuz i wanted to actually help folks. being born & raised in dc gave me a political conscience. after a year and a half, i knew law wasn't the way to do it. it wasn't a local thing, either - at lewis & clark college of law, in portland, or; which had one of the pre-eminent enwironmental law programs in the nation at that time, the overwhelming desire - yust as it was in the rest of the nation's law school class of '82 - was to get rich, at any cost. personally, i felt i could deal heroin if i wanted to get rich; and at least i wouldn't be f**king people as badly...

interesting tidbit - in japan, there is one lawyer per capita, for every seventeen lawyers in the usa. and, there is not a shortage of lawyers in japan.

ymmv,

doug s.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Mar 2009, 09:06 pm »

Quote from: doug s. on 11 Mar 2009, 08:52 pm

ymmv, doug s.

My mileage varied. I was able to become a lawyer and help people.

I assume that this off-topic discussion is tiresome to the forum other members, and I won't impose upon them further.

doug s. · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Mar 2009, 12:51 am »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 11 Mar 2009, 09:06 pm

Quote from: doug s. on 11 Mar 2009, 08:52 pm
ymmv, doug s.

My mileage varied. I was able to become a lawyer and help people.

I assume that this off-topic discussion is tiresome to the forum other members, and I won't impose upon them further.

i am glad your mileage waried - seriously. i really wanted to do it, but i yust didn't have the stomach for it. the system made me so depressed.

i know this was off-topic for the thread, and i realize that you cannot generalize about all attorneys - i almost became one myself. but they are such a juicy target.

now - back to two subs, and getting aroound swmbo!

best,

doug s.

sfox7076 · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Mar 2009, 03:19 am »

I may take you up on that Nuance.

bahorn1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Mar 2009, 03:42 am »

Quote from: sfox7076 on 10 Mar 2009, 02:26 pm

As some of you know, I have been enamored with my Songtowers and surrounds. However, I have not had an easy time getting my subwoofer to blend well with these speakers. I have been using a Hsu VTF-2 first generation. So I went into the market to look for a new sub. I looked at spending about $1000-1300 total. I looked into the usual suspects, including HSU, SVS, Rythmik and the SongSub. Well, after reading reviews, I thought that the answer for my space was the Rythmik or the Song. I do have to say that I had a bad experience with SVS in the past, so that weighed a bit on my decision. I was curious about the songsub, especially because it would match my speakers, but it had no reviews. I emailed back and forth with Jim, and he told me that he had planned on building a sub with Rythmik's design to evaluate their product design, etc. If I was interested he would order the internals from Rythmik based on the woofer size I wanted and build the sub in the cherry veneer of my speakers. Needless to say, i was floored. Jim is building a down firing 15" from the Rythmik design for me. Not sure if he will be tweaking it at all(though knowing how Jim operates, I am sure that the design will be reviewed and tweaked if he thinks it merits it), but I am floored to take delivery. Not sure when that will happen, but I cannot wait.

Shawn

Congrats Shawn. I've been enjoying my SongTowers, SongCenter, and Song Surrounds (the STs for almost a year now). I've also been seriously thinking about getting a Rythmik sub. I don't really feel like I need a sub with the STs. But I am curious as to how it will sound with a decent sub in my system. I'm sure Jim will do a great job for you. Looking forward to your review once you get it.

--Doug

bahorn1 · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Mar 2009, 03:55 am »

Quote from: Nuance on 11 Mar 2009, 08:00 pm

This is being used only on the subwoofer (I didn't get the more expensive unit, so I can't EQ my entire system with it...nor would I, but that's a different topic). The BFD is active and sets the filters which allow the sub to be EQ'd as flat as you can get it. You can do auto filters or manual filters if using REW (Room EQ Wizard).

Hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you do go this route, and I will try to help you through it (I just learned the whole process myself this week, and the sound difference is AMAZING).

Hey Nuance. You may have just learned the whole sub EQ process. But you are still way ahead of me. I've been to the REW forum on Home Theater Shack. And it sounds like the following are recommended to use with REW:

- Behringer Feedback Destroyer
- sound card (e.g. Turtle Beach Audio Advantage SRM)
- microphone (e.g. Behringer ECM8000)
- mixer (e.g. Behringer XENYX 802)

Does that sound right based on what you have learned? Looks like the total will be about $300. I already have a RadioShack SPL meter.

Thanks,
Doug