Tube integrated for HT3s?

ChuckS · « **on:** 26 Jan 2009, 04:38 pm »

Any recommendations - based on a known successful marriage - of a tube integrated that would do my HT3s justice?
All tube - as opposed to a hybrid - is my preference.

Nuance · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jan 2009, 04:53 pm »

I am sure Zybar will be most helpful in answering that question, though he didn't like how the 10" woofer responded to tubes, which is ultimately why he sold the HT3's (I think).

carusoracer · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jan 2009, 05:07 pm »

You will need something in the 100 watt and above range. Very seductive and at the same time clear with tubes, but a Nuance mentioned you really need some *alls to control the big woofer. Unless you are only playing at moderate levels.
It will get pricey pretty quickly, the Top of mist list would be:
VAC,Lamm,Dodd 120,Jolida 100, Manley, BAT VK55,McAlister PP150

ChuckS · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jan 2009, 05:47 pm »

Does Manley make something manley enough in an integrated? (not that I know of)

I'll check out Lamm, and I know the Jolida 1000 would work - but I've heard many iffy comments about that integrated in particular.

BTW, having tried something is NOT the recommendation I'm hoping for - has anyone found a succesful pairing of tube integrated and HT3, and liked it enough to stay with it?

BikeWNC · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Jan 2009, 06:15 pm »

I haven't tried an integrated amp but I did use my tube pre and 50 watt tube amp and while it was fine for some music at moderate volume overall it just wasn't enough. If I wanted to use a tube amp I think it would be in a bi-amp setup with a ss or class D amp on the woofer. I know that doesn't help.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jan 2009, 01:27 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 26 Jan 2009, 04:53 pm

I am sure Zybar will be most helpful in answering that question, though he didn't like how the 10" woofer responded to tubes, which is ultimately why he sold the HT3's (I think).

I actually sold the speakers because I found a "better" (although significantly more expensive) product (Vandy 5A's) - not because of how tubes sounded with the HT3's. That being said, the best amp match in my system, to my tastes, was the BAT VK-600SE.

I have no doubt that some tubes amps can do a good job controlling the woofers, but I can't say I had great success. I don't think it is just about the watts, it is about the amp's comfort level driving a lower impedance load and dampening factor, size of room, type of music you listen to, volume you listen at, etc...

Carusoracer mentioned some brands above and out of them, I have owned the Dodd 120's and the McAlister PP-150. I know that the Dodd 120's didn't do it for me, especially when listening at higher volumes. You can read what I thought of the Dodd 120's (the previous, not the current shipping version) in comparison to the Moscode 401HR (hybrid amp) here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=32863.0

As for the PP-150, from the mid's up it would be an excellent match for the HT3's. If your room is on the smaller side and you listen to vocals, small jazz pieces, folk, etc...you can use it full range and be very happy. However, if you room is medium to large, and/or you listen at higher levels to a more diverse range of music, I don't feel that the PP-150 will be able to drive and control the woofers in an optimal fashion.

Chuck, I think it is going to be very hard to find a high powered tube integrated amp that really does the HT3's justice. Can you possibly go with just an amp? Can you provide a little more context around your room, listening preferences, associated gear, etc...? With a little more info, maybe we can come up with something.

George

HerculePirate · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jan 2009, 03:27 pm »

I am too looking for an Pre for my HT3 (soon to come..)
I have a Acoustic Reality eAR-1001 Ref Monoblocks.
They are said to be Warm sounding amps...John Potis on 6moons who reviewed Bel Canto 1000 monoblocks felt that they were warm sounding too.
I have a Tact 2.0 S which I can use as a Pre for a while.
Any advice on my next step or what Pre amps to look for...
I like to have a Warm detailed and Punchy presentation. I love Rock and some good Pop. Acoustic music thrills me.
Sorry for the thread Hi Jack,
Regards

HP

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Jan 2009, 03:40 pm »

First and foremost, you will not enjoy your HT3's unless you satisfactorily drive the woofers. The 10 incher, don't we all wish, is the driver for the inefficiency of the speaker. I believe Jim has stated you could very easily run the upper 2 speakers with as little as 35 watts all day long.

I think the prospect of an integrated with enough muscle to overcome the woofer is pretty hard to find. I have not played around very much with bi-amping these, but the few times I did it was dissapointing, moreso from my lame attempt. I think a sweet sounding tube integrated of modest wattage would be great if you could sister it with a mondo SS amp for the woofers. Obviously things like gain levels, etc. complicate that scenario.

So, oversimplifying, find a monster tubed integrated if the tube sound is your bag, or get a mondo SS amp. Mated with a tube preamp you'dd probably like the sound just as much and only invest a tad more in the end.

Preamps of the tube variety that I really liked were/are: my Bella Purity, Dodd battery, MW36.5. The Dodd, used, is an outstanding choice. I may try the new Wyred, fully balanced, solid state pre this spring (blasphemy!). it will also have a dead quiet volume attenuator designed by Rick Cullen himself. $1700 predicted list.

fsimms · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Jan 2009, 03:52 pm »

I also recommend the Dodd battery tube preamp. I think the best solid state preamp is Steve McCormack's SMC VRE-1. It is $10k and has only a manual volume control though

Bob

HerculePirate · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Jan 2009, 06:22 pm »

Those kinda Pricing just Puzzle me....makes me wonder where is the money off to....???
HELL....BEYOND REASONING...for me

HP

fsimms · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jan 2009, 09:22 pm »

Quote

Those kinda Pricing just Puzzle me....makes me wonder where is the money off to....???
HELL....BEYOND REASONING...for me

Although $10k is high and prices me out of the market, I can sympathize with Steve's pricing. I think Steve has a lot more development time in his preamp and the volume control is hand made. It blows away all the other similarly priced preamps.

Bob

ChuckS · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 02:36 am »

So, yeah - um.... back to my question.
I have had my HT3s hooked up to my Rogue Zeus, and it was glorious to my ears. I thought the woofers were moving fine - very fine. Yeah, tubes will work.
But that cannot be my setup in this room as DW has decreed. She's a great woman, and I ain't fighting.
This is my living room, and it's not that big: 14 x 19 x 8 1/2'.

Right now I'm running an AR LS25II into a Bryston, a well tested and fairly acclaimed partnering - but it's leaving me cold. I can't tell an ES125 from an ES175 or a K 17" custom dark crash from an A 16" thin crash. I know the HT3s are capable of doing this.

I'm gonna borrow a Rogue stereo 90 from my local dealer this weekend, and see what I think of 90 KT88 watts. I have no idea how it will partner with my LS25, but guess I'll find out.

Philistine · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 02:51 am »

Hi Chuck, those Rogue amps look interesting - who's the local dealer you're hooked up with?
Phil

Steidl Guitars · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 03:43 pm »

I was wondering how well 90-100 tube watts would drive the HT3s. I have a Rogue Tempest II integrated (KT88 based, 90 w in ultralinear) running as a dedicated amp (same as the Rogue 90) with a Rogue 99 preamp driving a pair of Dynaudio Contour 3.4s -- not an efficient speaker.

I wondered how much better a higher powered amp would do, so I tried a Bel Canto S300 which is rated at 300w into 4 ohms (the Dyns are a 4 ohm load). Although the BC sounded different to me than the Rogue (and very good), I don't think it offered any more "control" over the lower frequencies which was where I was expected the major difference.

So I can't speak to the HT3s, but the Rogue seems to do a respectable job with the Dyn 3.4s. And for what it is worth, the Rogue responds very well to tube rolling, so there's opportunity to tailor the sound a fair bit.

zybar · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 04:33 pm »

I can say that the Dodd 120's (which are supposed to be good out controlling woofers and producing good bass) were no match for the ss or hybrid amps (McCormack DNA-500, BAT VK 600SE, Moscode 401HR, CI Audio D-200's) that I compared them against on the HT3's.

I have no idea how the Dodd 120's would compare to the Rogue amps.

BTW, I am definitely not saying that tubes can't be a good match with the HT3's. I just couldn't come up with any tube integrated amps that would be a possible solution.

George

ChuckS · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Jan 2009, 05:57 pm »

Zybar-
"BTW, I am definitely not saying that tubes can't be a good match with the HT3's. I just couldn't come up with any tube integrated amps that would be a possible solution."
Gotcha, and thanks for the input!!

The Tempest II would be what I was really thinking of, my dealer doesn't have one - but offered the ST90. I'll give it a run this weekend.
Rogue is good stuff - I like the way they are made , I like the way they operate, I love the way they are supported, and yep - you can really tune them to your taste with tube rolling.

There are several Zeus (what's the plural of Zeus?) amps over on agon right now, if I brought one of THOSE into the living room I would be sleeping outside I'm afraid.

Philistine · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Jan 2009, 04:18 am »

Anyone heard the modded Jolida JD-1000RC?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1237862042

carusoracer · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Jan 2009, 04:41 pm »

Quote from: Philistine on 31 Jan 2009, 04:18 am

Anyone heard the modded Jolida JD-1000RC?

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1237862042

I have not heard the mod version, I was fortunate to be able to hear the Jolida unit demoed by Mike Allen in Annapolis Junction. Not sure why they call it that it is a pretty fair drive to Annapolis itself

The speakers it drove where the Dali Helicon 400's and Eggleston ,maybe Andra? Very nice Amps with some power.Can it handle the HT3's not sure. I think you would have to look up the efficiency and drop in Ohm's with both of those speakers to determine if suitable.
BW, Jim mentioned this Amp once I can not remember the context though maybe just a reference as my 302b could not adequately come close to driving the HT3's full range at volume. Maybe moving up the line to the 1000.
Looks like a lot of mods and Amp for the money.

Philistine · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 06:51 pm »

Quote from: ChuckS on 28 Jan 2009, 05:57 pm

Zybar-
"BTW, I am definitely not saying that tubes can't be a good match with the HT3's. I just couldn't come up with any tube integrated amps that would be a possible solution."
Gotcha, and thanks for the input!!

The Tempest II would be what I was really thinking of, my dealer doesn't have one - but offered the ST90. I'll give it a run this weekend.
Rogue is good stuff - I like the way they are made , I like the way they operate, I love the way they are supported, and yep - you can really tune them to your taste with tube rolling.

There are several Zeus (what's the plural of Zeus?) amps over on agon right now, if I brought one of THOSE into the living room I would be sleeping outside I'm afraid.

Chuck - did you get the chance to try the Rogue over the weekend, or was being in the heart of Steeler Nation to much of a distraction?
If you did get the chance it would be interesting to get your feedback as there's a lot of interest from HT3 owners, also Rogue is a brand that doesn't get mentioned on AC - I'm intrigued.

jsalk · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Feb 2009, 08:41 pm »

For what its worth, I modded a JD1000 for a customer and before it shipped, used it to drive a pair of HT3's. The customer who was there at the time really liked the HT3's (bought a pair). After the demo was over, just for fun we hooked up the JD1000. His reaction was "wow, I may have to look into getting one of those amps too!". My reaction was a little more reserved. I loved the sound of the EL34's for the mids and top end. But the bass was not as well controlled as it would be with solid state. It wasn't bad, mind you, but I like tight control over the woofer and thought that solid state did a better job in this regard.

I really do think that using solid state on the woofer and tubes on the mid/tweeter section is the best of both worlds.

- Jim