[jermmd]

To use a baseball analogy, the 5A is a five tool player with hall of fame credentials.  While it isn't the  Babe Ruth of speakers, it certainly could be Stan Musial, Ted Williams, or Lou Gerhig.

George

Off topic but what would be considered the Babe Ruth of speakers if not the 5A's? Obviously cost of the speaker doesn't always equate with quality.

[rollo]

 Jim the 5A is a classic design in every way. Using either Audio Research or Mac Intosh one can have two different resutling sounds. It depends on the character of the sound you desire.
  saying that the Maggie 20.1 comes to mind as well as the Rockport [ cannot remember model but it is round the same price]. I could live very happily with the 5A and AR gear but thats me.Then again same for the Maggies. You have to LISTEN to both. Go see John Ruttan [ No one is a better Vandy man then him IMO] in NJ and Lyric in NYC and have a listen.
   Me, for the price, the 5A and Maggies would be my choices. The Babe Ruth of speakers the Maggie 20.1 Go listen already


charles



charles

[tdangelo]

While no part of the 5A's performance is weak or even average, I would say that a tad more sparkle and air in the top end and maybe a slightly more spacious and open midrange (areas that are supposedly do be substantial improved upon with the Vandy 7's) would be my wish.
George

I agree with the assessment.  I had my 5a's for over a year and ultimately sold them for a more exciting sound(to my ears).  I do miss the bass adjustability though...

[Bob Wilcox]

I have heard George's Vandersteens on 2 occasions driven by his Atma-Sphere and his Bella? amps. The things that stand out to me (versus other nice sounding speakers) are the effectiveness of the multiband bass EQ, transparent crossover, the freedom from cabinet sound and the ability to maintain composure at high volumes. In many systems I have heard, the bass becomes overpowering after a certain volume level and the individual drivers make their presence known through out-of-band driver noise, crossover saturation or cabinet effects.

[jimdgoulding]

Indeed, no cabinet effects is one of the design goals of Vandy as Bob says along with crossoverless sound.  Their crossoverless sound is achieved in part by staggering the drivers for uniform time arrival of their output.  When guys say the top end lacks something, I can't help but wonder if they are comparing with live music as a reference or music as produced by speakers with tweeters physically forward (i.e. surface mounted) of the mid or mid/bass driver.

I lifted this post and link by Russell Dawkins from the Salk forum:

Under cover of the word "etc..." in the thread's subject line, I came across what I think is an outstanding sounding drumkit demonstration of a cheap home made microphone in a post in another forum. To see the rest of the thread, click in the upper right corner of this page:
http://tinyurl.com/ycpfo2b

The mics in question are used as overheads and in the first two samples are supplemented with close mics, but in the last two are heard alone.

There is no compression or EQ used and the sound is so much better than I am used to hearing I thought some of you would like to hear it.

This is also a testament to great mixing, mic placement and playing. This is one talented guy.

I have no doubt that on many speakers the sound may be more exciting (in the way I think the word is being used) than the 5A's, but keeping your critical faculties on, listening for placement may reveal more 3D acuity of the relationship of the instrument- a drum kit- in space and wholeness to the sound.  This isn't the province of Vandersteen exclusively (think SP Tech's, Audio Kinesis, and soforth).
 
Hard not to love the big expansive presentation of recordings by Maggie 20.1's and the price, relatively speaking.  They need lots of power, IME, and more space than I can give them, but remain a personal favorite.  The Mag 1.6's have to be one of the greatest values in audio for music lovers.

[zybar]

When I made my comments on "weak" parts of the 5A's, my comments were in comparison to the best out there.  I am very happy with the mid-range and highs with the 5A's, but I feel that it where there could be some improvement.  Clearly Richard Vandersteen feels that as well given that's where he made improvements for the 7's.

As for the mid-range, I really was spoiled by what the Emerald Physics CS2's (open baffle) and Omega Revolutions (single 8" hemp driver) could deliver.  The clarity, speed, and beauty that each possessed in this area was truly breathtaking when partnered with the Atma-Sphere MA-1's in my room.  Of course, neither speaker could match the 5A's from top to bottom, so they ultimately weren't the answer.

If I could combine their magic with capabilities of the 5A's, I would be an extremely happy camper.   

In the meantime, I'll just have to be really, really, satisfied.   

George

[zybar]

On the subject of looks...

When I first bought the 5A's, I thought they were ok to look at but nothing special (I was somewhat spoiled by Jim Salk and his magic).  Over time, the simple design and beautiful craftsmanship has really grown on me and I really do love the way they look.





George





 

[jimdgoulding]

George, did what I say make any sense to you?  VSA has a recessed cabinet for their mid and ribbon tweet on their Unifield 3 and are said to have polite highs (as compared to what is the question).  That's one I'd like to hear in my size room.  The cost is deterent to me, tho.  I'm intrigued by open baffle speakers, yessir.  Like to hear Danny's speaker and the highly aclaimed Orions.

[Nuance]

While I was a little overly excited when I wrote this, I posted a review of the 5A's just over two years ago on AVS Forum.  It was the second time I auditioned them, but this time at a nicer location that actually took the time to treat the room and properly set up the speakers.  They are still the finest loudspeaker I've had the pleasure with, and this includes Wilson, Revel, Dynaudio, etc.  Here is the link (last review, down at the bottom):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12136854&postcount=332

To summarize, the things that stood out were the wide and deep soundstage, superb imaging, great midrange clarity, near perfect HF's (as mentioned, a wee bit more air/sparkle would benefit), spot on timbre and the most impressive bass I've heard from two speakers. 

[jimdgoulding]

While I was a little overly excited when I wrote this, I posted a review of the 5A's just over two years ago on AVS Forum.  It was the second time I auditioned them, but this time at a nicer location that actually took the time to treat the room and properly set up the speakers.  They are still the finest loudspeaker I've had the pleasure with, and this includes Wilson, Revel, Dynaudio, etc.  Here is the link (last review, down at the bottom):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12136854&postcount=332

To summarize, the things that stood out were the wide and deep soundstage, superb imaging, great midrange clarity, near perfect HF's (as mentioned, a wee bit more air/sparkle would benefit), spot on timbre and the most impressive bass I've heard from two speakers.

Just redd this from AVS, twice.  It's now May.  Wow, brother Nu, nice work!  I can't think of being as impressed with a listener's evaluation on any forum this much before.  Everybody ought to have a read whether they are in the market or not.  I was almost there with you.

[Val]

The Vandersteen 5As are everything the posters say, and the new 7's even more. However, when I have listened to the original 5s, the 5As and the 7s, there always was one characteristic I didn't like: the soundstage was low to the ground, just above the top of the speakers. I remember comparing the 5s with the original EgglestonWorks Andras, a relatively short speaker that nevertheless threw a huge soundstage in all dimensions, including height.

[zybar]

The Vandersteen 5As are everything the posters say, and the new 7's even more. However, when I have listened to the original 5s, the 5As and the 7s, there always was one characteristic I didn't like: the soundstage was low to the ground, just above the top of the speakers. I remember comparing the 5s with the original EgglestonWorks Andras, a relatively short speaker that nevertheless threw a huge soundstage in all dimensions, including height.

Val,

You are correct in that 5A's won't produce a huge wall of sound like some speakers do.  However, if you sit far enough back from the speakers, they definitely can produce a deep and wide image that goes above the physical top of the speaker.

George

[jimdgoulding]

The breadth of and space in a stage is often the product of speaker placement.

[zybar]

I know this thread is about the 5A's, but here is very well written review on the new 7's:

http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/vandersteen_model_seven.htm

George

[drphoto]

At the risk of taking someone's thread in a new direction (again) how do Vandy's lower end models stack up? Some of them go for really low prices on AG. I really like what Vandy is doing from an engineering standpoint, but never heard any of them. thanks

[Wind Chaser]

The breadth of and space in a stage is often the product of speaker placement.

That's for sure.  I had the Hornshoppe Horns with the original FE 108 Sigma driver.  The diameter from one edge of the cone to the other was 2.5 inches, and a pair of those full range drivers in Ed's created a massive wall of sound as big as my front wall and as deep as out onto the front street.

However, in addition to room placement, the breadth of and space of the stage is also dependant on the size of the room and the ancillary equipment.  When it all comes together, it's a pretty trippy experience. 

[jeffreybehr]

Here's a blurb I wrote in the Speaker Asylum.

"They and I arrived home Saturday nite, I got them running Sunday, and got them positioned Monday.

My 5As are about 3 years old and were the 1st pair painted a color--Porsche Arctic Silver--different than black, my dealer tells me.



I put them in about the same positions previously occupied by the Avantis, installed carriage screws (instead of spikes) so the heavy boxes would be easier to move, and leveled them.  They’re toed in somewhat...10 degrees?...but intersect WAY behind me.

I again used a pinknoise generator and third-octave RTA to adjust the bass-system equalization; that went fairly quickly.  Still evident are the combined-bass-nodes peak at 28Hz and the broad notch centered around 80Hz, but they’re certainly lower in level.  Speakercable is 4 feet of inexpensive AQ Rocket88, one of their two-bundles ‘flatrock’-type cable.  I unzipped the 2 halves for most of the length and counter-spiraled some Neotec OCC-in-Teflon conductors around the 2--18g. Copper for the LF cable and 23g. Silver for the HF.

The systems have about 40 hours on them, and these are my first impressions.

Overall, these are the best-sounding speakersystems I’ve ever heard.  The sound is relaxed, natural, coherent top to bottom, etc.  In the MOST-important midrange (MR), they are highly transparent, more so than my highly improved Avanti IIIs--and MR was the Avantis’ best area.  The treble is smooth--that is, NOT course or rough sounding--clean and extended.  I can now listen to my brighter-balanced recordings at higher-overall levels because the treble is no longer slightly unattractive.  The transition from treble to MR...or MR to upperbass or upperbass to lowerbass, for that matter...is seamless as far as I can tell.  Instruments with fundamentals in the lower-MR to upperbass such as cellos and bassfiddles sound like one instrument instead of two.  Acoustic bass that’s well recorded, with some air around the instrument, etc., sounds excellent; one can hear the harmonics from the strings and the warm sound of a hollow wooden chamber resonating. (1)

The transition from upperbass to lowerbass is also not apparent to me.  The bass from the powered woofer is tight, authoritative, and goes down about forever.  The sounds of particularly-low-tuned orchestral bassdrums are reproduced with so much information that one can hear the initial impact and immediate fundamental and then the wave as it resonates thru the hall. (2)

Imaging and soundstaging are both as good as I’ve ever heard, even with my barely tweaked positioning.  The speakers are as dynamic as I’ll ever need, and my 160-into-8 Monarchy SE-160s drive them effortlessly.

I agree with others that the closeness of amplifier-heatsink fins prevents the use of typical audiofool powercords, but Pangea 14s fit finely and fairly tightly on the inlet prongs, so I’ve ordered a long-enough pair.

WOW what magnificent sound.  More later. 

BTW, anyone who wants more pics of the rather-busy crossovers...



...should e-mail me at jeffreybehr(at)cox(dot)net.


(1) For excellent-sounding acoustic bass, try Opus 3's ‘Knud Jorgensen Jazz Trio’, CD #CD 8401, recorded very naturally with, I believe, a single figure-8 stereo mic.  GREAT music too.
(2) My favorite recording of Holst’s ‘The Planets’ is Adrian Boult’s latest, LP #ASD 3649 and CD 0777 7 64748 2 3.  ‘Uranus’ contains that bassdrum strike at 2+ minutes in.

They're even better sounding a week later.  Everything I play sounds better than it ever has.  They have such extended and high-quality bass that I've relieved my SuperSubs from the duty of reinforcing the stereo-L/R channels; they're now driven only by the '.1' channel of my multichannel recordings and video discs.

Jim, save your hundred$ and then beg, borrow, or steal a pair; you won't be sorry.

BTW, 5s can be purchased much-less-expensively than 5As.  Based on the reviews I've read, they were excellent speakers and very close to the 5As in some respects.  I think the biggest improvement of the 5As were/are in transparency, and you can get some of that by upgrading parts in the crossover.  There was a $3700 pair of 5s in A'goN for 2 months before they sold for real.  Unfortunately, 5s are very expensive to have converted to 5As.

[kingdeezie]

Those are a beautiful finish.

However, are those pictures of the speaker crossover? What the heck is with the Duracells? Do those need to be replaced, and how often?

What purpose to the serve in the crossover network?

[jeffreybehr]

Those are a beautiful finish.

However, are those pictures of the speaker crossover? What the heck is with the Duracells? Do those need to be replaced, and how often?  What purpose do they serve in the crossover network?

TY.  I didn't know just how much I'd like them in my room, and I've come to really appreciate the charcoal-colored grilles with this color rather than black ones.

The 9v. batteries are wired in series; the 28VDC is used to bias the capacitors in series with the signal, to keep them broken-in.  Read V'steen's and Audioquest's literature on this; it works, altho it makes the x-over more complicated.  JBL at least used to use battery-biasing of x-over caps in its hi-end speakers.

[Slapshot]

Hoping I can revive this discussion to assist me with buying speakers. I have heard various Vandersteens, over the years, but almost always at large shows, which can be less then enlightening in terms of truly gauging the quality. A couple years back, at a high end local audio store, I did hear the Quattro Wood CT's, in a large, sound room, as set up by Richard Vandersteen himself, who was a special guest for the extended audition. I was extremely impressed by those speakers, but they were, and remain, simply out of my price range.

An affordable pair of 5a's has popped up, and I'm wondering if any of you Vandersteen guru's could compare what I should expect from the 5a's versus the Quattro Wood CT's, and any other current speakers you would place in the same class. My listening area is 20 wide by 15 feet to the listening position, with very high, vaulted ceilings, and an even larger area open, behind me. I expect the 5a's would do very well in such an environment?  Thanks, very much, for your thoughts on this. They are greatly appreciated. 

JC