A phono preamplifier is not a FM receiver !

Guy 13 · « **Reply #100 on:** 11 May 2014, 05:11 am »

Quote from: yeldarb on 11 May 2014, 04:09 am

If you have a spare tube, roll it into the Bellari.

Hi yeldrab.
Did that already more than one time.
This morning I took my Rega turntable with my Bellari phono and plugged it on my mini Sony receiver on another outlet.
Still some interference, not much, but still there and still quite a bit of humm...
I've by passed the Bellari (Took the Rega interconnects and plugged them directly in the aux. in of the Sony, of course with a mm cartridge not much was coming out, therefore I cranked up to volume to maximum and there was no interference and no humm, so I must conclude that the Bellari is the trouble maker.
I am not wrecking my brain or what's left of it, to see where I could borrow a (Tube) phono stage?
Maybe a AC member as one that he's not using and would be generous enough to land it to me for a test and if I like it I could buy it something like 1$ per week for life...

I am not spinning CDs until I find a solution.

Guy 13
Thanks for posting.

neobop · « **Reply #101 on:** 11 May 2014, 11:30 am »

Quote from: Guy 13 on 11 May 2014, 05:11 am

Hi yeldrab.
Did that already more than one time.
This morning I took my Rega turntable with my Bellari phono and plugged it on my mini Sony receiver on another outlet.
Still some interference, not much, but still there and still quite a bit of humm...
I've by passed the Bellari (Took the Rega interconnects and plugged them directly in the aux. in of the Sony, of course with a mm cartridge not much was coming out, therefore I cranked up to volume to maximum and there was no interference and no humm, so I must conclude that the Bellari is the trouble maker.
I am not wrecking my brain or what's left of it, to see where I could borrow a (Tube) phono stage?
Maybe a AC member as one that he's not using and would be generous enough to land it to me for a test and if I like it I could buy it something like 1$ per week for life...
I am not spinning CDs until I find a solution.

Sorry, wrong again, or maybe I should say not necessarily. A MM phono stage has 20dB more gain than a high level input. It might be more than 20dB, so any phono stage is much more likely to amplify interference, hum, RF. This isn't a valid test.

Why don't you answer my questions?
Did you plug an old Sony turntable into the Bellari and it was dead quiet, or did I misunderstand?
"With my Sony automatic cheap turntable I have not FM and no humm..."
neo

Guy 13 · « **Reply #102 on:** 11 May 2014, 12:28 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 11 May 2014, 11:30 am

Sorry, wrong again, or maybe I should say not necessarily. A MM phono stage has 20dB more gain than a high level input. It might be more than 20dB, so any phono stage is much more likely to amplify interference, hum, RF. This isn't a valid test.

Why don't you answer my questions?
Did you plug an old Sony turntable into the Bellari and it was dead quiet, or did I misunderstand?
"With my Sony automatic cheap turntable I have not FM and no humm..."
neo

Hi neo.
I did try my Sony cheap automatic turntable,
but not connected to my Bellari because the Sony as a ss built in phono stage,
I could only connect the Sony to my Sony receiver on the auxiliary input
and had no interference and hum.
I did connect my Rega output without the Bellari directly on the auxiliary input of the Sony receiver,
no.... Wait, I did so many tests tht I don't remember.
I will do the same test again to make double sure.
I am trying to find a way to borrow a tube phono unit and see/hear if I still have the same problem,
but that won't be easy, who would trust a crazy guy like me.
I don't know if that makes sense or if this is a crazy idea,
but how about wrapping the Bellari completely in aluminum sheet, those same type of sheet you use to cook food and ground the whole thing to the ground of a wall outlet.
Yes, I know that's crazy,
but I am desperate to find a solution to my problem.
I have 80 freshly washed vinyl waiting to be spin.
I wonder if I connect the Sony turntable with built in phono to the Bellari
and put the Bellari volume control to or near minimum, that might work
and confirm where the problem is.
With what I did, I am pretty sure that the problem comes from the Bellari
and no the Rega turntable arm.

Guy 13

neobop · « **Reply #103 on:** 11 May 2014, 02:22 pm »

You can plug the Sony into Bellari only if you can bypass the Sony phono stage. Can you do that with Sony?

What's the hum like on the Rega/Bellari at normal loud listening levels?

Because you have to turn it up all the way and put your ear next to the speaker to hear any RF means we can probably fix that.
Bellari is already in an aluminum case isn't it? The hum indicates a grounding problem.

I think the rewire job was a failure. Sorry, but why else hum?
Could you test the Rega wires like I asked? Do you have a meter or continuity tester? Either the ground wire is still connected to the channel ground, or the new internal ground connection is bad, or both.

You can get a couple of silver mica capacitors for Bellari. They're cheap - only a couple of dollars. It's that damn Rega arm that's the problem. Why couldn't they do it right in the first place?

This is the cap:
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-100pF/dp/B004RPPCMU/ref=pd_sim_indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z3VNTA19Z17X6JAGANB

http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-150pF/dp/B004RPPCNY

http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-220pF/dp/B004RPMUUC/ref=pd_sim_indust_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DZ5VMK4198D36G8Z8PS

neo

G Georgopoulos · « **Reply #104 on:** 12 May 2014, 05:04 am »

Hi Guy13

here is a cheap phono stage you can try to test your equipment..

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AC1649

all the best,and good luck..

Guy 13 · « **Reply #105 on:** 12 May 2014, 12:34 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 11 May 2014, 02:22 pm

You can plug the Sony into Bellari only if you can bypass the Sony phono stage. Can you do that with Sony?

What's the hum like on the Rega/Bellari at normal loud listening levels?

Because you have to turn it up all the way and put your ear next to the speaker to hear any RF means we can probably fix that.
Bellari is already in an aluminum case isn't it? The hum indicates a grounding problem.

I think the rewire job was a failure. Sorry, but why else hum?
Could you test the Rega wires like I asked? Do you have a meter or continuity tester? Either the ground wire is still connected to the channel ground, or the new internal ground connection is bad, or both.

You can get a couple of silver mica capacitors for Bellari. They're cheap - only a couple of dollars. It's that damn Rega arm that's the problem. Why couldn't they do it right in the first place?

This is the cap:
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-100pF/dp/B004RPPCMU/ref=pd_sim_indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z3VNTA19Z17X6JAGANB

http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-150pF/dp/B004RPPCNY

http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-220pF/dp/B004RPMUUC/ref=pd_sim_indust_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DZ5VMK4198D36G8Z8PS

neo

Hi neo.
I will get back to you with answers to all your questions.
I am busy packing/preparing for a 4 days trip to Dalat city with my wife,
her aunt from Chicago (She paying for the trip, thanks auntie.)
and two sisters in law.
4 days for 2 years of hard work, that little, but better than nothing.
It's a 6 hours drive (Average speed here is 50 mph) but the view is fantastic:
Mountains, lakes, pine trees and most important a much cooler temperature, because the month of May is the hottest of the whole year with the thermometer circling around 95F.
I might be able to find time to do some test and write up my findings.
Thanks for your help, highly appreciated from a desperate Rega/Bellari owner.

Maybe I should get a Mickey Mouse player?
Does it play 33RPM vinyl?

Guy 13 · « **Reply #106 on:** 12 May 2014, 12:39 pm »

Quote from: G Georgopoulos on 12 May 2014, 05:04 am

Hi Guy13

here is a cheap phono stage you can try to test your equipment..

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AC1649

all the best,and good luck..

Hi Georgopoulos.
Thanks for the link.
First I must find the problem,
as I want to keep the Bellari that is paid for.
I have more tests to do and then,
I will post my findings.
Thanks again.

Guy 13

Guy 13 · « **Reply #107 on:** 13 May 2014, 11:57 am »

Hi neo and all.
I’ve just finish doing a zillion tests of my Rega/Bellari
and here is what I did:
By the way, now my problem is more the Hmmm than the interference, it’s not loud enough to stop me to listen to music, but it’s definitely there.
The recently added ground wire is really making contact with the inside of the arm’s tube; I’ve checked it with my Ohm meter.
It’s now connected to the ground lug of the Bellari.
I’ve tried to position the Bellari at different locations, within the length of the 1M interconnects.
I tried to relocate the 12VAC wallwart adaptor; I even tried the 230V adaptor that came with the unit.
I switch from a Ruby 12AX7 to a NOS Sylvania and back to the original Ruby tube that came with the unit.
I could not try to bypass the built-in phono pre-amp in the Sony
Automatic turntable. (Too delicate job of unsoldering hair size wires.
I tried to connect the arm interconnects directly in the Decware amplifier, by passing completely the Bellari and of course, I had no humm no interference, if I put my ear against the driver I can hear something but it very faith, almost inaudible.
Well, I know that test does not mean much, but I had to try it.
I did the same thing with my Sony receiver plugging the arm interconnects into the auxiliary input.
I even try to wrap the tube only, then the whole Bellari in aluminum sheet and ground it to the Bellari, I also grounded the Bellari to the Decware.
I’ve notice something while doing all those tests, when I put my hand near the Bellari (Especially the tube) the humm increase; I also put my hand on the arm and the cartridge, but no increase of humm.
Look as if the 12VAC cable from the wallwart adaptor is sensible to induction from the amplifier and turntable motor.
What I cannot understand is why in my other house I did not have any of those crazy problems ? ? ? ?
I did one last test.
I took my wife’s Pioneer ss receiver/amplifier with her permission, I don’t want to die.
It as a phono input with a grounding lug.
So I plugged everything and guess what?
No more humm, zero humm, no interference, zero interference and plenty of power, of course, it’s a ss 100wpc.
So, is it too early to conclude that the Bellari is the trouble maker?
I think so.
Question: What am I gona do about it?
Answer: Nothing for now.
No, I cannot keep the Pioneer, my wife don’t want, I was luck enough that she gave me permission to do my test, I won’t push my luck further, I want to live.
I would like to buy another phono pre-amplifier, but like they say:
No money, no candy.
In my case it’s no phono pre-amp.
I will not buy one of those El-Cheapo 50 USD phono stage,
Because that 50 USD could be more useful somewhere else.
Well, that’s it for now and for a long time.

Guy 13

Nick77 · « **Reply #108 on:** 13 May 2014, 12:32 pm »

Try plugging in the wallwart on another circuit without turntable. Or if its a different circuit already try plugging into same circuit. Ive had a few issues with not being on the same circuit and producing hmm.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #109 on:** 13 May 2014, 01:47 pm »

Quote from: Nick77 on 13 May 2014, 12:32 pm

Try plugging in the wallwart on another circuit without turntable. Or if its a different circuit already try plugging into same circuit. Ive had a few issues with not being on the same circuit and producing hmm.

Hi Nick77
Already tried all that.
(In the other house,
everything was on the same circuit,
without any problem.)
Thanks for the suggestion.

Guy 13

neobop · « **Reply #110 on:** 13 May 2014, 05:20 pm »

Guy,
Wrapping Bellari in tin foil might help with RF. It won't do anything for hum.

Did you check the ground wire from Rega to see if there's any connection left with the RCA grounds?
Maybe it is fixed, but you won't be 100% sure until you check.

The AC wiring in one house might be different from another. There's something else you could try. Hook Rega to Bellari in the usual manner. Then run an additional ground wire from Bellari to your linestage or integrated amp. Hook it up to the same ground post on Bellari and to a chassis screw on your amp. This must make a good connection and not contact a painted surface.
It often helps to have your amps connected to the same power line.
neo

Guy 13 · « **Reply #111 on:** 14 May 2014, 10:49 am »

Quote from: neobop on 13 May 2014, 05:20 pm

Guy,
Wrapping Bellari in tin foil might help with RF. It won't do anything for hum.

Did you check the ground wire from Rega to see if there's any connection left with the RCA grounds?
Maybe it is fixed, but you won't be 100% sure until you check.

The AC wiring in one house might be different from another. There's something else you could try. Hook Rega to Bellari in the usual manner. Then run an additional ground wire from Bellari to your linestage or integrated amp. Hook it up to the same ground post on Bellari and to a chassis screw on your amp. This must make a good connection and not contact a painted surface.
It often helps to have your amps connected to the same power line.
neo

Hi neo.
Wrapping the Bellari with aluminium sheet is a move from a desperate person.
I had to do it.
As clearly stated in a previous post, (Sorry, don't want to be rude or impolite)
but I did check with my Ohm-meter to make sure that the ground wire installed by the Vietnamese technician was making good contact from the inside of the arm's tube and it was making good contact.
The interconnects left and right common/ground does not make contact with the earth ground connected to the arm tube.
I am sure (Without any solid proof) that the house wiring is different from my previous house.
Here they have no electrical law when it comes to house wiring and if they have laws they are for sure not applied.
I tried to connect the ground from the Bellari to the Decware, to the main ground of the Majik Buss line filter, to two different wall outlets, no improvement, no difference.
I know how to make a good ground connection to a painted metal chassis, for many years I designed and built large industrial electrical control for gas burner management.
I think I have a few notions about electricity and ground.
I sure don't want to sound pretentious, sorry if I put that in a way that look like that.
I am always open to suggestions, comments or anything that can help me, regardless from whom it comes, younger or older person. You always have
something to learn from other, even in your own field of work.
All my audio components are connected to my Majik Buss line filter and all the power cords are grounded and polarity have been checked.
For now, I have put away the Bellari with accessories in a box on a shelve.
I will calm down and let my relief valve relief the pressure.
For now, I listen to CDs and I enjoy the music on my SET amplifier and my extended range OB Dipole speakers.
Thanks all for your help.

Guy 13

neobop · « **Reply #112 on:** 14 May 2014, 12:11 pm »

Best of luck with the repair or replacement.
neo

Guy 13 · « **Reply #113 on:** 14 May 2014, 12:16 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 14 May 2014, 12:11 pm

Best of luck with the repair or replacement.
neo

Thanks neo.

Guy 13

yeldarb · « **Reply #114 on:** 15 May 2014, 08:54 pm »

If I remember, lots of folks had noise from the stock Bellari wall wart. A friend has one and bought a substitute wall wart from Radio Shack within a week of purchase. It makes no noise, now.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #115 on:** 20 May 2014, 08:39 am »

Quote from: yeldarb on 15 May 2014, 08:54 pm

If I remember, lots of folks had noise from the stock Bellari wall wart. A friend has one and bought a substitute wall wart from Radio Shack within a week of purchase. It makes no noise, now.

Hi yelarb.
I have two Bellari PS-12 (Output 12VAC) one is 220V and the other 120V.
I even bought a small transformer 220V - 12VAC Made in China from the local electronic flea market, they are all the same, in the sense that they make no difference on the interference.
I don't think the Bellari wall wart have any built in filtration.
The Bellari 120V. is plugged on my Majik Buss line filter - conditioner.
I will try to plug them on a wall outlet on another circuit in another room
via an extension cord.
I will also find a way to shield the 12VAC wire going to the Bellari
and find a new ground line from the wall outlet.
As you can see, I have some experimenting to do.
I will get back to you with the results,
if you don't hear from me,
it's because I would not have succeeded in my experimenting
and decided that life without my turntable was not worth living,
therefore I would have jumped from the 13th floor.
Why the 13th floor you might ask? Well, 13 is my lucky number.

Guy 13

yeldarb · « **Reply #116 on:** 22 May 2014, 06:40 pm »

google Bellari noise problems and read about the noise from the wall wart.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #117 on:** 23 May 2014, 09:56 am »

Quote from: yeldarb on 22 May 2014, 06:40 pm

google Bellari noise problems and read about the noise from the wall wart.

Hi yeldrab.
Thanks for the idea.
Sometime simple idea just don't pop up in my head.
Browsing true all the comments from many Bellari owners,
gave me a few idea to try to solve the problem.
I will probably concentrate my efforts on grounding the body
and shielding the tube.
I've tried three different wall wart, in three different wall outlet
and also via my Majik Buss.
I will try to shield the 12VAC cord from the wall wart to the Bellari.
Even if my ideas/trials don't make sense, I try them anyway, who knows, by trying, I might unexpectedly discover the problem.
Thanks.

Guy 13

avahifi · « **Reply #118 on:** 23 May 2014, 09:00 pm »

If you want to try a completely different phono preamp to see if this eliminates all of your noise issues, I would be happy to lend you one of ours.

Give me a call at 651-330-9871 if you are interested.

Sincerely,

Frank Van Alstine

Guy 13 · « **Reply #119 on:** 24 May 2014, 03:07 am »

Quote from: avahifi on 23 May 2014, 09:00 pm

If you want to try a completely different phono preamp to see if this eliminates all of your noise issues, I would be happy to lend you one of ours.

Give me a call at 651-330-9871 if you are interested.

Sincerely,

Frank Van Alstine

Hi Frank.

Thanks for the offer,
but unfortunately, I have to turn down your offer, sorry
(Thanks for offering, that's nice of you.)
because you might not be aware that I am living (Stuck) on (Planet) Vietnam.
Therefore the cost of bringing your unit to Vietnam (Transport + custom tax),
would be what I want to pay for a new unit and to return it, in case I don't like it,
would be also very expensive and I would not get a reimbursement for the duty tax paid.
Thanks again for your nice offer.

Guy 13