AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Vinyl Circle => Topic started by: Guy 13 on 15 Apr 2014, 09:30 am
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Hi all.
On last Friday I got my re-tipped Rega Exact MM cartridge (Re-tipped by Soundsmith) and today I decided to install it on my Rega RB301 arm with my Rega P3 turntable.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97766)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97767)
I had to remove the arm from the table to have more finger room.
A third screw to the center of the cartridge is a brilliant invention from Rega, it makes the alignment of a cartridge a breeze or a child play.
However, they still have those microscopic nuts and bolts that are the size of a human hair, (Yes, I know, I exaggerate again or as usual) plus you almost need a microscope if you are old with a weak vision like me to see what you are doing.
I did the calibration of the weight with my No Name
Stylus Force Gauge (Made in Taiwan) for 70 USD.
Set at 1.75g as per Rega recommendation.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97768)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97769)
I check my set up with a vinyl from Adele
and I’ve got a terrible interference noise.
I can hear a FM radio station on both of my speakers
and it’s loud, very loud.
I would say it’s 40% of the loudness of the music.
I did not have that problem with my same set up on the ground floor of my previous house, now I am on the fourth floor.
I have a Rega P3 turntable which works on 230V.
A Rega Exact MM cartridge.
A Bellari VP-129 powered by a walwart 120V. in and 12VAC out.
A Decware SE84C+ SET amplifier on 120V.
All the above (Except the Rega P3) are connected on my 120V.
Majik Buss line filter/conditioner.
The Majik Buss is connected to an auto transformer on 230V, with stabilized 120V. output.
Everything is on a common ground going to the 230V. dedicated wall outlet.
The Rega P3 turntable does not have any ground except for the cartridge interconnects.
My problem is the following: I can hear from both of my speakers a radio station, probably FM and its loud enough that I can’t really hear the music from my vinyl.
I would say that 40% radio and 60% music and it proportional the the volume control position.
No hum, only the FM station on both speakers.
I’ve double check all my ground wires.
Any suggestions?
Guy 13
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Guy 13,
your wires look like they are in knots. Could that be the problem?
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Guy 13,
your wires look like they are in knots. Could that be the problem?
Hi NIGHTFALL1970
They might look like that, but they are not.
Several times I've I've re-route them
and made sure they don't cross 120V wires.
Any other suggestions ?
Guy 13
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Nightfall is talking about the wires to your cartridge. You can see from your photo that they are all inter-woven and in a mess. While untangeling that mess may not eliminate your radio station, it may improve your channel separation.
I'd like to inquire what kind of RCA interconnects you are using from your phono preamp to your line preamp. I suspect that there is some poor shielding going on. Unshielded interconnects are a radio antenna, and would explain your reception of a local station.
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Hi Guy
I don't know that phono stage but I think it has a mute. Try that and see if the FM disappears. If so, then you've narrowed down the source. From there check the gain settings on the phono stage to see if that impacts 'reception'. If nothing else works, try moving the arm around like an antenna and you might at least pick up a channel you can enjoy (just kidding!).
Keep us posted
Patrick
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Nightfall is talking about the wires to your cartridge. You can see from your photo that they are all inter-woven and in a mess. While untangeling that mess may not eliminate your radio station, it may improve your channel separation.
I'd like to inquire what kind of RCA interconnects you are using from your phono preamp to your line preamp. I suspect that there is some poor shielding going on. Unshielded interconnects are a radio antenna, and would explain your reception of a local station.
Hi Wayner.
Yes, I know, the cartridge's wires look like a spaghetti junction.
I will fix that later, but I will fix it, promise.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97776)
The interconnects come out directly from the Rega arm shaft and they are Rega stock and they are shielded.
Then, they go to the Bellari VP-129 phono stage.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97777)
Then from the Bellari it goes directly to the input of the Decware SE84C+ SET amplifier via a pair of Interconnects from Signal Cable OFC shielded.
The red wire (Should be green) is the ground that goes directly to the wall’s ground.
That set up is exactly the same I had in my previous house and it worked fine, no interference what so ever.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97778)
Any ideas before I put the axe in that stuff ?
Guy 13
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Hi Guy
I don't know that phono stage but I think it has a mute. Try that and see if the FM disappears. If so, then you've narrowed down the source. From there check the gain settings on the phono stage to see if that impacts 'reception'. If nothing else works, try moving the arm around like an antenna and you might at least pick up a channel you can enjoy (just kidding!).
Keep us posted
Patrick
Hi Patrick.
Yes, if I push the mute button, it goes quiet, dead, nothing, zilt.
If I turn down the gain knob, the FM radio goes down,
but also the music from the turntable.
Even if I move the arm around to get another FM station,
I am always stuck with the same boring FM station.
I suspect that there is something going on in/within the arm,
because the arm is not grounded in any way.
I even tried a ground jumper wire with an alligator clip,
but nothing, zilt, rien, khong, nenine...
Draken double drak, come up with something, otherwise I will do something I might regret.
(The axe is not far or withing an arm length...)
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97782)
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Boy, correct me if im wrong but i always thought that ground lug was for the turntable not for the wall outlet.
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Boy, correct me if im wrong but i always thought that ground lug was for the turntable not for the wall outlet.
Hi Nick77
My Rega turntable has no ground lug what so ever.
All the ground wires from the phono, amplifier, CDPlayer, etc...
will all end up at the wall outlet ground.
Does that makes sense the way I put it ?
Guy 13
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Boy, correct me if im wrong but i always thought that ground lug was for the turntable not for the wall outlet.
You're not wrong. :)
Guy, I think you should change your grounding scheme and remove the red (earth) wire you have connected to your phono preamp and connect the ground wire from your RB301 arm interconnect cable to that lug. If your RB301 cable doesn't have a ground lead then you should get a cable that does.
Your phono preamp should not have a direct earth ground connection to the wall outlet.
Dave.
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You're not wrong. :)
Guy, I think you should change your grounding scheme and remove the red (earth) wire you have connected to your phono preamp and connect the ground wire from your RB301 arm interconnect cable to that lug. If your RB301 cable doesn't have a ground lead then you should get a cable that does.
Your phono preamp should not have a direct earth ground connection to the wall outlet.
Dave.
Hi Dave.
I will check that tomorrow,
because my wife just called me to join her in the bed
and I don't think it's for sleeping,
it's too early for that.
Guy 13
What you said make sense...
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:o
TMI
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You're not wrong. :)
Guy, I think you should change your grounding scheme and remove the red (earth) wire you have connected to your phono preamp and connect the ground wire from your RB301 arm interconnect cable to that lug. If your RB301 cable doesn't have a ground lead then you should get a cable that does.
Your phono preamp should not have a direct earth ground connection to the wall outlet.
Dave.
It appears the tonearm is not grounded. You could also try some aluminum foil rapped around the phono ICs. An old recording studio trick when FM signals were heard.
charles
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:o
TMI
+10
Guy13 is quite a character
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Agree with a couple of posters. Ground wire should not go to house-hold system ground, and tonearm/turntable ground should go to the Bellari ground. Problem should go away.
The shield of the RCA interconnect will carry the Ballarie ground to your line preamp.
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Hi Guy,
Unshielded wires at the headshell can pick up noise or RF. Braiding those wires tends to reject noise, but you don't want to stress the connections. Probably nothing to worry about, but I can't tell how tight it is.
So, you hooked up an antenna ground wire from your phono stage ground to the AC outlet and now you're listening to the radio and a record at the same time? I suspect the reason it wasn't a problem in the last house is due to chance. You know what they say, "Location, Location, Location".
Chances are, if you get rid of that wire you'll be fine. There is no easy way to connect a ground wire to your Rega arm AFAIK. The ground is in one of the channel grounds and it, in turn should be connect to the ground inside your phono preamp.
neo
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:o
TMI
+10
Guy13 is quite a character
TMI but implicitly. I will let it slide. I mean she may have called him because the TV remote was stuck. :dunno:
Guy, we don't need to know anymore about what goes on in your bedroom. :shh:
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I hate to say this but I used to own a Soundcraftsman pre-amp that picked up radio signals through the phono section. Tried several turntables and, always, in the background was the local Christian broadcasting station. Faint but audible. I moved 13 miles, and no difference. Apparently Soundcraftsman didn't use blocking caps in the circuit. Finally sold it to a guy at work. He has three turntables and it still gets radio. I has to come through the jacks, as there are no vents in the cabinet. He also has a Bellari that is dead quiet.
Hope it is your ground arrangement causing the problem.
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You're not wrong. :)
Guy, I think you should change your grounding scheme and remove the red (earth) wire you have connected to your phono preamp and connect the ground wire from your RB301 arm interconnect cable to that lug. If your RB301 cable doesn't have a ground lead then you should get a cable that does.
Your phono preamp should not have a direct earth ground connection to the wall outlet.
Dave.
Hi Dave.
I am back and I have removed the red/ground wire.
An Interconnect cable with a ground,
then the ground wire of the interconnect should be connected at both ends.
Correct ?
On the phono no problem, I can use the lug,
however, on the arm, where can I put it ? ? ? :scratch:
In addition, that means I have to go inside the arm or in the pivot and do some delicate soldering, which I am not to brave to do.
Guy 13
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:o
TMI
Hi jtwrace.
You american guys with all your abbreviations.
What's the meaning of TMI ? ? ? :scratch:
Guy 13
I hope it's a compliment.
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:o
TMI
+10
Guy13 is quite a character
Hi Hank.
Yes, you are right, I am quite a character and that's good for Audio Circle and all it's members.
Humor, jokes, funny situations and a guy like me, that's what makes this forum so much fun.
Anyone wants me to stop and be serious?
I hope not...
Guy 13
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: and more...
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Hi Guy,
Unshielded wires at the headshell can pick up noise or RF. Braiding those wires tends to reject noise, but you don't want to stress the connections. Probably nothing to worry about, but I can't tell how tight it is.
So, you hooked up an antenna ground wire from your phono stage ground to the AC outlet and now you're listening to the radio and a record at the same time? I suspect the reason it wasn't a problem in the last house is due to chance. You know what they say, "Location, Location, Location".
Chances are, if you get rid of that wire you'll be fine. There is no easy way to connect a ground wire to your Rega arm AFAIK. The ground is in one of the channel grounds and it, in turn should be connect to the ground inside your phono preamp.
neo
Hi neo.
I just finish doing more tests.
The problem must come from the cartridge/arm, because if I disconnect the interconnect cables from the phono the music, the FM music that is, stop.
With a jumper wire with alligator clips at both ends I connect them to the ground lug of the phono and I tried to clip it to different parts of the arm and nothing happen.
I have to conclude that the Bellari phono is O.K. and that the Rega arm is not O.K.
I will leave it like that for now... :(
Guy 13
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TMI but implicitly. I will let it slide. I mean she may have called him because the TV remote was stuck. :dunno:
Guy, we don't need to know anymore about what goes on in your bedroom. :shh:
Hi woodsyi
To whom it may concern:
You all twisted minds,
my wife only wanted me to help her with the remote control.
And don't expect me to share with any of you what's going on in our bedroom,
because I don't want my post to end up in the Galactic Waste Bin
or worst, the Vietnamese communist censorship bureau to throw me in jail
with only three bowls of rice a day...
Guy 13
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I hate to say this but I used to own a Soundcraftsman pre-amp that picked up radio signals through the phono section. Tried several turntables and, always, in the background was the local Christian broadcasting station. Faint but audible. I moved 13 miles, and no difference. Apparently Soundcraftsman didn't use blocking caps in the circuit. Finally sold it to a guy at work. He has three turntables and it still gets radio. I has to come through the jacks, as there are no vents in the cabinet. He also has a Bellari that is dead quiet.
Hope it is your ground arrangement causing the problem.
Hi veldarb
As mentioned in other posts, the ground is the problem, but in the arm ? ? ?
By the way, I never really liked that Regar P3 turntable and in addition, the same goes for the Rega Apollo CD player.
Rega is on my black list.
There it is, I said it and what is said, is kept that way for ever or until I die, which ever comes first.
Guy 13
aka: The frustrated guy. :duh:
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TMI = Too Much Information
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Hi jtwrace.
You american guys with all your abbreviations.
What's the meaning of TMI ? ? ? :scratch:
Guy 13
I hope it's a compliment.
TMI = Too Much Information
Guy13
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/playboy/playboy.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
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TMI = Too Much Information
Hi Ericus Rex.
Thanks.
Today I've learned something,
therefore, this evening I will go to bed (With my wife) less ignorant.
Guy 13
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Guy13
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/playboy/playboy.gif) (http://www.sherv.net/)
Hi jtwrace
I may sound like a playboy, :thumb:
but I sure don't look like one. :cry:
Guy 13
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Hi jtwrace
I may sound like a playboy, :thumb:
but I sure don't look like one. :cry:
Guy 13
That's not for me to decide. ;)
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Hi neo.
I just finish doing more tests.
The problem must come from the cartridge/arm, because if I disconnect the interconnect cables from the phono the music, the FM music that is, stop.
With a jumper wire with alligator clips at both ends I connect them to the ground lug of the phono and I tried to clip it to different parts of the arm and nothing happen.
I have to conclude that the Bellari phono is O.K. and that the Rega arm is not O.K.
I will leave it like that for now... :(
Guy 13
Hi Guy,
Did you get rid of that red ground wire going from your Bellari to the wall outlet? If not, try disconnecting it and see what happens. It's worth a shot anyway.
It could be that the arm is the problem and the red wire is making it worse. I'd rather not elaborate on your options until you try this.
neo
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Hi Guy,
Did you get rid of that red ground wire going from your Bellari to the wall outlet? If not, try disconnecting it and see what happens. It's worth a shot anyway.
It could be that the arm is the problem and the red wire is making it worse. I'd rather not elaborate on your options until you try this.
neo
Hi neo.
Yes, that's the first thing I did,
that red ground wire is a thing of the past.
That did no change anything.
Please have a look above at what I wrote to other members.
If you have any suggestions now it's the time, ]
before I kill the Rega arm or kill myself,
which ever is the easiest.
Guy 13
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Killing the arm might be a tempting release of frustration, but life goes on and the Rega still has value. The obvious solution is to rewire or replace the arm/table.
Do you have a friend nearby with a functioning record player you could borrow to test your system? Chances are, the arm wiring is the problem but it would be nice to know beforehand if that is a satisfactory solution.
There's a cottage industry for modifying Rega arms. Rewiring kits are sold on the net. If that's not an option, then you could sell the table and replace it.
Sorry there's no easy solution. Don't you have a tech that can do the job? If so, that might be the least expensive fix. It would be good if you could test the system first.
neo
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Killing the arm might be a tempting release of frustration, but life goes on and the Rega still has value. The obvious solution is to rewire or replace the arm/table.
Do you have a friend nearby with a functioning record player you could borrow to test your system? Chances are, the arm wiring is the problem but it would be nice to know beforehand if that is a satisfactory solution.
There's a cottage industry for modifying Rega arms. Rewiring kits are sold on the net. If that's not an option, then you could sell the table and replace it.
Sorry there's no easy solution. Don't you have a tech that can do the job? If so, that might be the least expensive fix. It would be good if you could test the system first.
neo
Hi (Again) neo.
Yes, smashing into zillion of pieces my Rega arm would be a great release of frustration, but like you wrote the Rega turntable is worth something,
right now, not much to my eyes, but maybe a little to others.
Two good suggestions:
Rewired the arm or replace the arm/turntable.
I have no (Audiophile) friends here in Vietnam, as a matter of fact,
I have no friend here, period.
I have a brand new (Bought 11 years ago, hardly used, still in it's original box)
)175 USD Sony automatic turntable, but is has a built in phono stage,
therefore feeding the Bellari phono stage with the Sony would overload
the Bellari phono stage, I think.
Getting a re-wiring kit from another country is risky, can easily get swapt by someone working at the post office or if I use FedEx it will cost me an arm
and a leg.
If I would sell the turntable here in Vietnam, I would get very little for it,
maybe just a few hundred $.
That's a too big lost for me, I've already lost lots of $ $ $ with this system.
Enough is enough.
I could always find a technician with small fingers to do the re-wiring,
but I have to choose it very carefully,
so that he does not make it worst than it is now.
Being here for the past 18 years, I know what I am talking about. We get electronic flashes repaired often by Vietnamese and until you find the right guy,
it's always risky.
I will see what road I will take, but for now,
I will calm down and try to release some steam from this frustrating experience.
There is a consolation,
I can still listen to my CDs with no overlapping FM station.
Guy 13
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Get a volt/ohm meter and do a continuity check on all the wires, from cartridge to RCAs. If you find one of the shield wires is bad, you can "share" the shield wire that is good for both channels by making a bridge between the two wires at the cartridge. In other words, sum up both (-) terminals on the cartridge.
Almost all preamps sum these 2 leads anyway.
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Get a volt/ohm meter and do a continuity check on all the wires, from cartridge to RCAs. If you find one of the shield wires is bad, you can "share" the shield wire that is good for both channels by making a bridge between the two wires at the cartridge. In other words, sum up both (-) terminals on the cartridge.
Almost all preamps sum these 2 leads anyway.
Hi Wayner.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I think I saw on Bellari instruction manual that the L + R channels cannot be jumped together to make it mono, but I think there were talking about the signal/positive wires, not the negative or ground wires.
I will have to double check on that.
I will get back to you on that, because again,
my wife is calling me from the bed room.
She must have again problem with the remote control.
What's so complicated with a remote control.
You don't need to be a computer programmer to figure how it woks.
What would she do if I was not here.
Hummm, yes the neighbor is a computer programmer.
I better stick around and stop complaining. :lol:
Guy 13
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Those blue pills is alot cheaper then here :D
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Guy 13, even in Vietnam you always must look on the bright side. You might have lost a turntable but you have gained a FM receiver. :thumb:
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The rca connectors on your Bellari, from the turntable appear to be very large. If the Rega has a rca jack block that allows swapping cables, then try a different cable. Or has the Rega previously been rewired?
I had a hum with the Technics I'm using now. It was a bad cartridge. If you get desperate, you can try rewiring the arm yourself. I think the wires in the typical computer mouse cable might be small enough. Lots of dead mouses to dissect. As twisted as the connections to your cartridge appear, you could have a break in the wiring. Hence the test meter. I have also had temporary losses of ground with my headshells, as they are detachable. I know yours is not, that is why I would suspect the wiring.
I assume Soundsmith checked the cartridge body before re-tipping. If all else fails, get your local computer guy to bypass the preamp in the Sony and wire up two RCA jacks.
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Hang in there Guy, sometimes these things take a long time to track down. Don't give up. Keep trying stuff even though you believe the problem is within the arm. You never know.
You mentioned that your interconnect is "Signal Cables" coming out of the Bellari phono stage and going into the Decware amp. If that particular Signal Cables interconnect has an arrow on one end, make sure that both arrows point in the same direction. Listen for the FM station, then flip the two cables the opposite direction to see if the radio station goes away. Sometimes the arrow needs to go in the opposite direction of the signal flow, or from the Decware to the Bellari in your case. It's worth a try anyway. (Process of elimination = Don't give up.)
Also, have you tried flipping the Bellari wall wart upside down (inverting the AC polarity)? Just a thought.
How about wrapping a few loops of the AC power cable of the phono stage and attaching a big ferrite? Just to see if you can make it go away?
Your turntable runs on 230V but everything else runs on 120V. I would be suspicious about that situation (since you have an RF problem) and try to get everything to run from the same AC source if possible. Sometimes two different AC sources, such as two different dedicated lines or two different power conditioners can cause weird problems. Sometimes the grounds are not the same, and sometimes the AC phase is not the same. You can actually get shocked when running two dedicated lines on two different phases. (More process of elimination = keep on trying.)
Last but not least, sometimes a phono stage is just not designed correctly and it picks up a strong RF no matter what you do. I had the same radio station problem when auditioning a "Whest" phono stage a few years ago. The designer said, "Yeah, that is a problem with my phono stage in a few different locations." I decided not to buy it for that reason.
Keep trying, don't give up...... :thumb:
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Get a volt/ohm meter and do a continuity check on all the wires, from cartridge to RCAs. If you find one of the shield wires is bad, you can "share" the shield wire that is good for both channels by making a bridge between the two wires at the cartridge. In other words, sum up both (-) terminals on the cartridge.
Almost all preamps sum these 2 leads anyway.
Hi Wayner.
I've used my ohm/meter and I have checked the continuity
of all the interconnect wires.
No open wire and no shorts.
I have also checked to see if the two ground wires (Negatives) of the
interconnect were connected/grounded to the arm, but they are not.
I even connected a jumper wire from the ground lug of the Bellari
and touched with it several metal parts of the arm and nothing,
I still hear that wonderful Vietnamese FM music.
I have noticed that if I touch with my finger any part of the arm, the signal is stronger, the wonderful Vietnamese music is louder, like if my finger was an antenna.
Any more ideas before I @#$%^&*(*&^%$
Guy 13
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Those blue pills is alot cheaper then here :D
Hi orientalexpress.
What blue pills ? ? ?
Sorry, I don't get it.
Please explain.
Guy 13
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Guy 13, even in Vietnam you always must look on the bright side. You might have lost a turntable but you have gained a FM receiver. :thumb:
Hi bearman2
I don't need an FM receiver,
I already have a good one.
:lol:
Guy 13
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The rca connectors on your Bellari, from the turntable appear to be very large. If the Rega has a rca jack block that allows swapping cables, then try a different cable. Or has the Rega previously been rewired?
I had a hum with the Technics I'm using now. It was a bad cartridge. If you get desperate, you can try rewiring the arm yourself. I think the wires in the typical computer mouse cable might be small enough. Lots of dead mouses to dissect. As twisted as the connections to your cartridge appear, you could have a break in the wiring. Hence the test meter. I have also had temporary losses of ground with my headshells, as they are detachable. I know yours is not, that is why I would suspect the wiring.
I assume Soundsmith checked the cartridge body before re-tipping. If all else fails, get your local computer guy to bypass the preamp in the Sony and wire up two RCA jacks.
Hi yeldrab.
The Rega was never re-sired and there are no RCA jack block. The interconnects go directly in the arm and I am afraid to take it apart to see what's inside.
I had temporally installed as AT3600L super cheap cartridge and had the same problem with it. With the Rega Exact cartridge it's even worst.
For now, I don't want to dig inside the arm to investigate about the hair size wires.
That's another thing I am not ready to do right now, to go inside the Sony T/T
I am sure that Soundsmith did check the cartridge, the AT3600L cartridge was doing the same thing, that's why I think the problem comes from the Rega arm.
Well, I think I will leave it alone for a while or until my blood pressure has gone back to normal.
Guy 13
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Hi orientalexpress.
What blue pills ? ? ?
Sorry, I don't get it.
Please explain.
Guy 13
Viagra :thumb:
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Viagra :thumb:
Hi orientalexpress.
Does superman needs those little blue pills?
No, well the same here.
That's why until just now,
I did not know what the little blue pills were.
Maybe in 30 years from now, I will need half of a pills,
but not now. :lol:
Guy 13
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Hang in there Guy, sometimes these things take a long time to track down. Don't give up. Keep trying stuff even though you believe the problem is within the arm. You never know.
You mentioned that your interconnect is "Signal Cables" coming out of the Bellari phono stage and going into the Decware amp. If that particular Signal Cables interconnect has an arrow on one end, make sure that both arrows point in the same direction. Listen for the FM station, then flip the two cables the opposite direction to see if the radio station goes away. Sometimes the arrow needs to go in the opposite direction of the signal flow, or from the Decware to the Bellari in your case. It's worth a try anyway. (Process of elimination = Don't give up.)
Also, have you tried flipping the Bellari wall wart upside down (inverting the AC polarity)? Just a thought.
How about wrapping a few loops of the AC power cable of the phono stage and attaching a big ferrite? Just to see if you can make it go away?
Your turntable runs on 230V but everything else runs on 120V. I would be suspicious about that situation (since you have an RF problem) and try to get everything to run from the same AC source if possible. Sometimes two different AC sources, such as two different dedicated lines or two different power conditioners can cause weird problems. Sometimes the grounds are not the same, and sometimes the AC phase is not the same. You can actually get shocked when running two dedicated lines on two different phases. (More process of elimination = keep on trying.)
Last but not least, sometimes a phono stage is just not designed correctly and it picks up a strong RF no matter what you do. I had the same radio station problem when auditioning a "Whest" phono stage a few years ago. The designer said, "Yeah, that is a problem with my phono stage in a few different locations." I decided not to buy it for that reason.
Keep trying, don't give up...... :thumb:
Hi Quiet Earth.
I am not giving up, but I a definitely slowing down in my search for the problem.
The Signal Cables I have don't have that arrow on them, I had another pair with arrows but can't find them.
However, I did change them from end to end, with out any improvement.
My 230V turntable get it power from the same source which is the auto transformer, but now that you mention that, I will rotate the 230V. AC source for the turntable, even if I think it's not polarized and then, should not make any difference, but I will try.
I don't know were I could find the ferrite you mentioned, any suggestions?
The Bellari works from the walwart 12VAC output, which as a 120V primary
and I did try to rotate it without any success.
Now that I think of it, I will plug the walwart directly into my Majik Buss line conditioner. Might do that this evening, since it's only 8.45pm and my wife don't need me to help her with the remote.
The more I try things, the more I circle around the audio stuff, the more I think the Rega arm is the problem.
I will try a few more things and get back to you later on or tomorrow.
I am not giving up yet, but if something don't happen, I will.
Guy 13
.
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Hi Quiet Earth.
One last post before I go hit the sack.
I tried to plug the walwart directly into the Majik Buss power conditioner and nothing,
I mean, the same, FM music.
I even reverse the polarity, even if a walwart is not polarized.
I've changed the 12AX7 from NOS Sylvania to the original 12AX7 Ruby.
So, that's it for today.
I will gop to bed now and wont let the bed bugs bite,
if they bite, I will bite them back. :lol:
Guy 13
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Hey Guy, I just thought of this.... your speaker wires can also act as an antenna. Do you have any problems with that on other sources?
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Hey Guy, I just thought of this.... your speaker wires can also act as an antenna. Do you have any problems with that on other sources?
Hi Wayner.
With my CD player it's dead quiet.
Today I will see what other ideas I can come up with. :scratch:
Guy 13
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Hi Guy,
Did you experience this problem with a previous cartridge? I can't really offer much help at all apart from my comment.
Good luck
Regards Rod
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I just started reading this thread and I have no suggestions. However, I have a Rega RB600 and the tonearm grounding is through the two RCA jacks, there is no separate ground wire.
Paul
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It sure sounds like a wire is picking up the FM. It will not take much - there is so much amplification on a phono signal that any spurious signal becomes objectionable.
Maybe the shield (ground) lead on one of the tonearm wires has become disconnected, allowing the wire to behave as an antenna. Suggest you check continuity of the four tonearm wires, from the cartridge connection straight through to the far end that plugs into the phono stage, with a meter on the x1 range. 0 or pretty darn close to 0 ohms is the only correct indication. Disconnect the cart first - and also, untangle the cart leads and dress them cleanly in place.
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Hi Guy,
Did you experience this problem with a previous cartridge? I can't really offer much help at all apart from my comment.
Good luck
Regards Rod
Hi Rod.
I had a AT3600L cheap 20 USD mm cartridge, because my Rega Exact was being re-tipped by Soundsmith
and I had the same problem, maybe a little loud, well, I think?
Guy 13
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I just started reading this thread and I have no suggestions. However, I have a Rega RB600 and the tonearm grounding is through the two RCA jacks, there is no separate ground wire.
Paul
Bonjour Paul.
I think it's the same for all Rega turntable products.
If you have no suggestions, I have no clue on what to do to solve the problem.
Yesterday, my wife found in a junk box the original walwart that came with the Bellari,
it as the Technic name on it and it's 230VAC in and 12VAC out with 1,000ma.
I've tried it and guess what, still the same problem.
Right now, after all the switching, changing, swapping, disconnecting, re-connecting, replacing
I am out of ideas.
I think the guilty part is the Rega arm/interconnect.
Guy 13
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It sure sounds like a wire is picking up the FM. It will not take much - there is so much amplification on a phono signal that any spurious signal becomes objectionable.
Maybe the shield (ground) lead on one of the tonearm wires has become disconnected, allowing the wire to behave as an antenna. Suggest you check continuity of the four tonearm wires, from the cartridge connection straight through to the far end that plugs into the phono stage, with a meter on the x1 range. 0 or pretty darn close to 0 ohms is the only correct indication. Disconnect the cart first - and also, untangle the cart leads and dress them cleanly in place.
Hi YoungDave
If I want to do a good job at checking the arm's wiring, I have to remove the arm from the turntable
and that's something I did already three times.
O.K. then, I will do it a fourth time, but that's gona be the very last time.
The next time I will touch that arm is with a sledge hammer.
Get back to you tomorrow with 99% sure bad news.
Old Guy 13.
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Just for the heck of it, try backing the cables off the rca jacks just enough that the metal is NOT contacting the Bellari. Not enough to break the connection, just get it off the case.
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Just for the heck of it, try backing the cables off the rca jacks just enough that the metal is NOT contacting the Bellari. Not enough to break the connection, just get it off the case.
Hi yeldrab.
As soon as I get back from work, yes, at 66 years old, I still have to work,
I will try your suggestion.
That should/will disconnect the ground connection of the are RCA interconnect.
Am I right ?
Makes more or less sense to me, but at this point in my desperation,
I am ready to try anything and everything.
Thanks for that weird suggestion, if it works, I will be the first want to thanks you
and your biggest fan. :lol:
Guy 13
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Hi yeldrab
Sorry for my late rpost, no valid excuse.
I tried to plug the RCA connectors half way in the input of the Bellari phono and
I could only get a faith sound with plenty of hummm.
Therefore, what's next ?
Well, I will tell you what's next.
I've decided to take apart the interconnect that goes into the pivot of the Rega RB301 arm.
It wasn't easy, everything was very tight.
And clumbsy me, I manage to break off all four wires when I pull out the intercennect assembly.
(See the pictures)
Tomorrow, I will bring the arm and interconnect to a repair man
with a small solding iron and with tiny agile little fingers.
Hopefully, he will do a good job and won't make it worst that it is now.
To be continued...
Guy 13
On the bottom picture look you can see that there is a small flat copper part that makes contact with the arm then the pasrt is inserted in the arm's shaft.
There, I do have a grounded arm. If the thing is making a good contact, of course.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98000)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98001)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98002)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98001)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98002)
Hi Guy,
Of the 5 wires the black is the ground. The connector at the bottom has 5 connections. The bottom one for the black ground wire is strapped to one of the channel grounds to the right of it. That would be either the green or blue wire. That strap should be defeated. You should make it so those two aren't connected. A separate ground wire should be run along with your tonearm wire, from that bottom connector to your preamp ground lug.
That brown piece on the bottom is part of the ground. It should contact the mating arm part when you reassemble. The wire code is:
red - right (+)
green - right (-)
white - left (+)
blue - left (-)
Good luck,
neo
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Hi neobop
and all AC members that are interested in my Rega RB301 interference saga.
With my ohm meter, I did some intensive and careful wires identification, because I wanted to know what is what
and what goes where.
You will find all my results/findings on the hand sketch below.
Now I know more where I am going.
Interesting is the fact the only one side of the interconnect is grounded to the arm via the little brown metal tab that is supposed to make contact with the arm shaft or tube to ground the arm, but that round thick tube is made of plastic, yes, plastic, and plastic is not conductive, I’ve check carefully with my ohm meter.
Therefore I can conclude without being erroneous, that the arm is not grounded and that’s why I have interference.
Rega, how can you do so much STUPID ?
Now, separating that double connected terminal B might be good, but I don’t think it will make anything better.
There is no way I can add a ground wire other than externally.
Which I tried already, but I will try again after I have separated the ground soldering posts.
Ho my God, no wonder I was born on a Friday 13th.
Are any of you are having as much problems as me with your
Rega ?
Anyway, on Monday the technician will re-solder all the wires according to my hand sketch and then, I will see what I can do about the ground.
I already have an idea, but the technician will tell me if he can do it.
If I had money, long time ago I would have thrown the Rega into an incinerator, so that nobody would have it with all the problems that comes with it.
Stay tuned, more interesting stuff coming.
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98011)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97776)
The interconnects come out directly from the Rega arm shaft and they are Rega stock and they are shielded.
Then, they go to the Bellari VP-129 phono stage.
Guy,
Looks like you have a bigger problem. Unless those wires change color in the arm tube, you shouldn't be getting those results. The black wire should not be making contact with the left positive (black positive?). That should be the white wire only. The color scheme is as I posted above. Maybe you wrote it down wrong?
The right channel is red and green. The left is white and blue. Did you untangle those wires at the cartridge?
If that ground strap only contacts plastic, you'll have to create a ground inside the arm. Maybe that's why Rega has it connected to the channel ground in the first place. I'll see if I can find out how aftermarket kits are configured.
neo
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Hi neobop.
Here is a revised and more complete wiring sketch of everything,
including the cartridge.
I am pretty sure that every wire is at the right place.
Have a look at my pictures and please comment.
Adding a ground wire going i the tube, that's a titanesk job, well for me.
Re-wiring the tube is also a big job, but might be easier ? ? ?
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98017)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98018)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98019)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98021)
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Forgot this hand sketch of the Rega Exact.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98022)
I don't know why, but the image won't download.
Therefore, here is the correct wiring of the cartridge.
Red = Right +
Green = Right -
White = Left +
Blue = Left -
Guy 13
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I'm sorry for jumping in late, but the pictures that were shown of the broken tonearm wires also show some suspect soldering. In my opinion all of the solder connections look 'cold'. At least two of those 'joints' would be marginal at best. I think if your guy is any good with the soldering iron, your problem might just go away with the re-soldering.
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I'm sorry for jumping in late, but the pictures that were shown of the broken tonearm wires also show some suspect soldering. In my opinion all of the solder connections look 'cold'. At least two of those 'joints' would be marginal at best. I think if your guy is any good with the soldering iron, your problem might just go away with the re-soldering.
Hi Don,
I think Guy just heated the joints removing the wires. A couple look a little overheated, but that's not the problem. The arm worked fine in the previous location. Those joints will be redone anyway.
neo
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Hi all.
I was thinking about something; it’s been turning in circles in my head for some time.
When I bought the turntable from the local Rega authorized dealer here in Ho Chi Minh City they told me that they had to import it and that someone will bring it as personal belonging.
When I got the table, I did what I do all the time, I went under the hood to see what’s under the hood and I was surprised to see that the motor had some kind of rust or oxidation on it’s housing, that was supposed to be a brand new table from the manufacturer.
I always had some doubt about that, I would not be surprised if this turntable was a Chinese copy ?
Anyway, I am stuck with it, I can’t spend many $ $ $ to buy another one and I cannot either spend mucho $ $ $ to replace something expensive or to afford expensive repairs.
I am still thinking on how I will add the ground wire and where I will connect it.
11 years ago I had a Limn LP12 with an Itok arm… I sold it for 500 USD am I kicking my ass today ?
Guy 13
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Guy,
It's probably just a little older than advertised. Do you think it would be worthwhile for them to copy the entire table? It's a shame you sold the Linn, but all you can do now is move on.
Okay, that looks better. Now, the question is, where does that black ground wire go to inside the arm, and is it still connected in there? It should be connected to a ground inside the arm, if it wasn't pulled out. If that black wire is disconnected inside, then you would have to make a ground connection on the aluminum part of the arm tube or pillar. Lets assume (at least for now) that it's still connected inside.
Now, what you have to do is disconnect that bridge between the bottom ground connector for the black wire, and connector for the left channel ground (blue). Don't worry about that brown strap. It shouldn't matter.
Here are instructions for a complete DIY rewire job, including making a new ground connection inside the arm. Hopefully, you won't need it:
http://www.vinylengine.com/hotwiredrega.pdf
neo
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Hi neobop.
It's Sunday 10.30pm
and I am tired (Long vinyl cleaning day today)
and tomorrow I have to get up at 6am and go to work.
Therefore, I will re-read your post and see...
Guy 13
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Hey Neo!
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Hi neobop.
This morning (Monday) I was to bring my Rega arm to the technician,
but I thought of something.
The black wire (Ground) will be soldered to the rubber plug with all the other cartridge wires,
but where will it exit from that plug ?
I think I will make a slot/groove along the plug and make another ground wire coming out
and then going to the ground lug of the Bellari phono stage.
I still have to check for the continuity of the black pig tail to the housing of the arm.
All that work and frustration because Mr. Rega did not do his homework.
Bad, bad, bad design.
Shame on you Rega.
Never again Rega.
You are on my black list Mr. rega.
Guy 13
I will be back with my findings, if I don't get run over by a 40 tons truck.
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Hi neobop
and I am sure other as well followers of my misadventures.
I have checked with my ohm/meter to see if the tiny black ground wire
was really making ground/connection with the arm and... and...
Yes, thank God it is.
There is at least one good news in this storm of bad news/surprises.
Now, the tiny black ground wire that as to go out of the arm assembly, I will get some kind of slot, gutter so that it can come out, because everything is super tight.
Tomorrow I will explain up to three times to the Vietnamese technician
that will do the modifications and repair to make sure he does not screw up the whole thing.
I am very anxious to put this bad luck adventure behind me and start enjoying the 80+ vinyl that I have just cleaned with my Spin Clean machine.
Guy 13
You may ask why I did not go to see the Rega authorized dealer from who I bought the Rega turntable.
Well, I did go see them for something else
and they more or less with a zillion excuses that they were not interested in
after sales business and I did contact Rega UK directly,
they are even worst, they told me:
Do business with our authorized dealer in Vietnam,
that's why we have authorized dealers.
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Now, the tiny black ground wire that as to go out of the arm assembly, I will get some kind of slot, gutter so that it can come out, because everything is super tight.
Guy,
The black wire was connected to the round junction at the bottom of the arm along with all the other wires. On the other side of that junction your tonearm interconnect wires are soldered. That junction is also strain relief. It prevents the wires getting pulled out and disconnected inside. I suggest using that connection and running a separate wire for ground, along with your interconnect. The only thing you have to do in order to use it, is disconnect that bridge between the ground connection and the one next to it (left channel ground).
You can run the black wire out some slot, but you'll have to secure it to the bottom of the arm so it doesn't get disconnected. If that bridge on the connector can be severed, it will make a neater more secure job.
neo
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Guy,
The black wire was connected to the round junction at the bottom of the arm along with all the other wires. On the other side of that junction your tonearm interconnect wires are soldered. That junction is also strain relief. It prevents the wires getting pulled out and disconnected inside. I suggest using that connection and running a separate wire for ground, along with your interconnect. The only thing you have to do in order to use it, is disconnect that bridge between the ground connection and the one next to it (left channel ground).
You can run the black wire out some slot, but you'll have to secure it to the bottom of the arm so it doesn't get disconnected. If that bridge on the connector can be severed, it will make a neater more secure job.
neo
Hi neobop.
Thanks for your comments/advices.
The above is exactly what I wanted to do
and what I will do as soon as possible.
I have figured out everything, well, I hope I did.
Thanks again.
Guy 13
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...and that black ground wire will go to the ground lug on your phono preamp.
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I was looking at the Bellari phono schematic and it appears that there is no capacitor located at the RCA input jack. It seems to me like there should be a 220pF cap, or at the very least a 100pF cap to limit the bandwidth and to match the high frequency peak found on most MM cartridges. After you get your arm wiring sorted out you should add a 220pF capacitor to the L & R input jacks and see if that helps. Even if it does not cure the FM problem, the sound quality should improve as the typical MM resonant peak will not be as prominent. (Less sibilant sounds, and more controlled, natural sounding.)
If you don't want to solder a 220 pF cap at the input of each RCA jack (or across R1 and R18), you can solder the capacitors to a cheap RCA plug, and use a good RCA Y connector to attach the capacitor plugs in parallel with your tone arm RCA cable ends. (Similar to cartridge resistance loading, but in this case capacitance loading.)
Edit, having trouble loading the image. Trying again......
(http://[img]http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98095)
[/img]
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Here is the schematic :
http://elektrotanya.com/PREVIEWS/63463243/23432455/egyeb/bellari_vp-129_sch.pdf_1.png (http://elektrotanya.com/PREVIEWS/63463243/23432455/egyeb/bellari_vp-129_sch.pdf_1.png)
(Waiting for SRB to pop in and make it all better as he normally does.)
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I was looking at the Bellari phono schematic and it appears that there is no capacitor located at the RCA input jack. It seems to me like there should be a 220pF cap, or at the very least a 100pF cap to limit the bandwidth and to match the high frequency peak found on most MM cartridges. After you get your arm wiring sorted out you should add a 220pF capacitor to the L & R input jacks and see if that helps. Even if it does not cure the FM problem, the sound quality should improve as the typical MM resonant peak will not be as prominent. (Less sibilant sounds, and more controlled, natural sounding.)
If you don't want to solder a 220 pF cap at the input of each RCA jack (or across R1 and R18), you can solder the capacitors to a cheap RCA plug, and use a good RCA Y connector to attach the capacitor plugs in parallel with your tone arm RCA cable ends. (Similar to cartridge resistance loading, but in this case capacitance loading.)
Hi Q E,
Soldering in 220pF caps is not a good idea. Depending on the cart it could have the opposite affect as intended. HO carts have inductance, and combined with shunt capacitance lowers electrical resonance. Most carts have recommended capacitance load of 150 to 300pF. That's total shunt capacitance including tonearm internal wire + interconnect. When that recommended capacitance is exceeded, the cart usually gets brighter and extreme high end is rolled off.
Capacitance loading plugs should work, but with most arm wire/interconnect being 125 to 150pF, I'd think 100pF would be around the maximum. With many carts no additional capacitance is needed. 50pF is a better idea IMO if adding caps internally. It depends on the cart and interconnect.
neo
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Well, we have a radio station interference problem here and I think that all of the variables must be considered. The open loop gain of the first gain stage (tube) plus the open loop gain of the second gain stage (op amp) need to be bandwidth limited and electrically under control. Otherwise, if they are left wide open you are only asking for trouble. That is a fact that cannot be denied.
This is the primary reason why I brought it up, because there is an RF issue. We must look at the entire system - not just the antenna (the arm wires).
But beyond that I also believe the rule of limiting capacitance to 220 pF for a MM cartridge is more of an urban myth than a hard and fast truth. The modeling for that 220pF capacitance situation is theoretical and static. It does not represent what will actually happen when the cartridge is playing music into the load. In other words, it's an approximation or a starting place. A base line.
Removing all of the capacitance that the cartridge sees will not get rid of its natural characteristic impedance, and it will not improve the high frequency performance as a whole. Sure, it might extend the bandwidth beyond 15kHz, but there will be a lot of fingernails-on-the-chalkboard pain and a lot of excess sibilance to pay for that effect.
For example, my own MM Cartridge sounds way better (i.e., more correct) when the load capacitance is set to 470pF, not 220pF. That is 470pF plus the high capacitance of the 1meter long litz cable connected to the end of the tone arm (which is also wired with high capacitance litz). So it is probably around 660pF total, give or take. If I set the load capacitance to 100pF or zero it sounds bright, shrill, and edgy as all get out (by comparison).
Anyway try. At least try to add some capacitance to the front end because you will never know until you hear it for yourself. You might tame a sibilant record (like every pop record ever made), and you might even get rid of a radio station. It's pretty cheap to make a few capacitance plugs and experiment for yourself.
Hope you get things sorted Guy. Sorry for the diversion.
:thumb:
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If Guy still has a problem after rewiring, maybe some caps will help. It could be a good suggestion.
As far as urban myth - you couldn't be more wrong. This has been documented, measured, many times. Here is an article by Werner Ogiers EE about loading the M97. The goal here is different, to brighten a dull cart. But look what happens to response when recommended 250pF is changed to 370pF.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/load_the_magnets_e.html
neo
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Hi Neo,
I respect your opinion and your experience too. How could I be "more wrong" by actually selecting the input capacitance value of my phono stage, and then listening to decide which sounds more correct? That is what I do at home in real time and real space. Listening is not a simulation. I choose the value of C that sounds best while I am playing the record, not what the math tells me to choose. In my case either 470 or 220 pF sounds the best, with 470 being the most often used. If I go by theory alone then I cannot stand to listen to most of my pop/rock collection.
Thanks for the link. I have read that article before (and many others) and I know what you are getting at. Those are nice simulations and calculations but they don't tell the whole story. Did you notice that they also play with the input resistance as well as the capacitance? Not that it matters ....... the proof is in the listening, not the simulations. The calculations are good for getting a general understanding of how the load might react, but they do not really represent what is actually happening while the cartridge is talking to the load, and the load talking back. You have to play the record to get that data. (You have to listen to it.)
Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I know that I am way outnumbered on this topic, (which should be another thread anyway) and I can only speak for my own cartridge and system, and what I hear at home. 8)
But to recap, the main reason I brought up the capacitance is that I noticed there was none (zero) in the front end of the Bellari. I think there should be some, especially if you are picking up a radio station. Or perhaps if you hear way too much sibilance in those Paul Simon records. It's just one more thing to explore and you can decide for yourself if it helps or it hurts. I think experimenting is ok, isn't it? Sure it is.
Cheers everyone! :D
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Hi neobp and Quiet Earth.
Thanks for that exchange of opinion and knowledge, interesting it is, however,
I am very happy with the sound of my Rega Exact mm cartridge
with the Bellari VP-129,
well before it started to play unwanted FM Vietnamese music.
It's not what some would call hi-end or the best or the best,
but it's enough for me.
You can keep arguing, exchange, fight if you want,
that's O.K. with me, even if it's MY topic. :lol:
Guy 13
The Rega RB301 arm and the interconnect should be right now
in the hands of the Vietnamese technician.
I am crossing my finger that he does not screw up the whole thing.
If he does, after I will take care of him,
he will not be sleeping in his bed, but in a coffin. :lol:
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Hi Neo,
I respect your opinion and your experience too. How could I be "more wrong" by actually selecting the input capacitance value of my phono stage, and then listening to decide which sounds more correct? That is what I do at home in real time and real space. Listening is not a simulation. I choose the value of C that sounds best while I am playing the record, not what the math tells me to choose. In my case either 470 or 220 pF sounds the best, with 470 being the most often used. If I go by theory alone then I cannot stand to listen to most of my pop/rock collection.
Thanks for the link. I have read that article before (and many others) and I know what you are getting at. Those are nice simulations and calculations but they don't tell the whole story. Did you notice that they also play with the input resistance as well as the capacitance? Not that it matters ....... the proof is in the listening, not the simulations. The calculations are good for getting a general understanding of how the load might react, but they do not really represent what is actually happening while the cartridge is talking to the load, and the load talking back. You have to play the record to get that data. (You have to listen to it.)
Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I know that I am way outnumbered on this topic, (which should be another thread anyway) and I can only speak for my own cartridge and system, and what I hear at home. 8)
But to recap, the main reason I brought up the capacitance is that I noticed there was none (zero) in the front end of the Bellari. I think there should be some, especially if you are picking up a radio station. Or perhaps if you hear way too much sibilance in those Paul Simon records. It's just one more thing to explore and you can decide for yourself if it helps or it hurts. I think experimenting is ok, isn't it? Sure it is.
Cheers everyone! :D
Curious what cart and phono stage sounds best with > 600pF ? It's possible. I had a MI cart where recommended capacitance was > 400pF, but no modern MM/MI cart comes with such recommendation.
As I said in my post, you couldn't be more wrong refers to the following:
"But beyond that I also believe the rule of limiting capacitance to 220 pF for a MM cartridge is more of an urban myth than a hard and fast truth. The modeling for that 220pF capacitance situation is theoretical and static. It does not represent what will actually happen when the cartridge is playing music into the load. In other words, it's an approximation or a starting place. A base line."
There is no such rule. Capacitance is loaded to compliment the output of the cart. 220pF was used as default capacitance in many phono sections in yesteryear, but it was never a standard and not total capacitance. I stated in my initial post on this subject, that it depends on the cart and phono stage. HO cart resistance loading can be very beneficial, but you're right, that's a subject for another thread. If you're really interested you are welcome to join in here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88878.msg1317722#new
The TNT article wasn't just theoretical. Along with the calculations there were actual response plots with the cart playing a record. Those findings have been verified by hundreds of end users. We had a thread on this here on Vinyl Circle. With that cart 250pF (total) had to be maintained to keep treble from drooping, but increasing to 370pF caused a pronounced peak (the thing you're trying to avoid) and sharp roll-off at 14KHz. That's a relatively high inductance cart, but it's about the same as the Ortofon 2M series which has rather different response. Yes, by all means tune by ear, but watch those "characterization" statements. I use HO carts often, and capacitance can make a dramatic difference. Hopefully, Guy won't need excessive capacitance to block RF.
neo
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Guy,
If your arm comes back and it works but you still get radio interference, Quiet Earth's suggestion might fix it. Lets hope it goes away.
neo
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I was wondering about the self capacitance or miller capacitance of the tube and op amp. Wouldn't that tend to limit bandwidth and help block RF ?
Guess it wasn't enough to stop that local radio station.
neo
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I was wondering about the self capacitance or miller capacitance of the tube and op amp. Wouldn't that tend to limit bandwidth and help block RF ?
Guess it wasn't enough to stop that local radio station.
neo
Hi neobop.
As I mentioned in an earlier post,
when the system was in our other house,
it was on the ground floor and with exactly the same components,
I had no interference what so ever.
Now, I am on the forth floor and I have nice musical interference.
I guess it's because I am now at the same level as the FM emitting antenna
of the Vietnamese FM station.
What else could it be ? ? ? :scratch:
In about a week or so, I will know if the problem was with the black tiny ground wire, if that was not the problem, then I am back up the creek without a paddle and my turntable/phono stage will be as useless as a pair of tits on a leg horn.
(I like to use those expression, for me they fit well the situation, but if they don't please suggest something better.
Guy 13
The French Canadian that likes to use some English expressions.
By the way: I am not sure if I want to modify my Bellari ? ? ?
I hope I won't have to.
-
Guy,
You don't have to modify your phono stage to see if a little more capacitance helps (or hurts). Put a RCA barrel type adapter on the input of your Bellari. Now you have two inputs. Plug your regular phono cable into one of the RCA jacks. You can solder a small capacitor on a RCA plug and plug it into the other end of the RCA adapter.
You can get inexpensive 100 220 330 pF capacitors and make your own capacitor loading plugs to play around and listen for yourself. If you don't like it or it doesn't help your phono stage is still like new.
Hopefully the rewire will fix your problem and you won't have to try it.
Here is a picture of the style of adapter : http://aphroditecu29.com/ViaBlue/Image/XS%20Series/xs_cinch_adapter_y_2.jpg (http://aphroditecu29.com/ViaBlue/Image/XS%20Series/xs_cinch_adapter_y_2.jpg)
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Guy,
You don't have to modify your phono stage to see if a little more capacitance helps (or hurts). Put a RCA barrel type adapter on the input of your Bellari. Now you have two inputs. Plug your regular phono cable into one of the RCA jacks. You can solder a small capacitor on a RCA plug and plug it into the other end of the RCA adapter.
You can get inexpensive 100 220 330 pF capacitors and make your own capacitor loading plugs to play around and listen for yourself. If you don't like it or it doesn't help your phono stage is still like new.
Hopefully the rewire will fix your problem and you won't have to try it.
Here is a picture of the style of adapter : http://aphroditecu29.com/ViaBlue/Image/XS%20Series/xs_cinch_adapter_y_2.jpg (http://aphroditecu29.com/ViaBlue/Image/XS%20Series/xs_cinch_adapter_y_2.jpg)
Hi Quiet Earth.
Thanks for the info.
I will only do it, if I still have interference.
I don't have any 100 - 220 - 330uf capacitors,
therefore I will have to go the electronic flea market to buy some,
which is only 10 minute drive from my work.
Thanks again.
Guy 13
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Hi Guy;
I read through your thread and was wondering if you have successfully resolved your problem? You've received some excellent suggestions from other helpful members...In the event you're still experiencing the radio interference issues with your analog setup, perhaps these tips may be helpful to you...
Generally speaking the majority of RF broadcast interference usually affects analog audio circuits in the longer wavelength lower frequency AM bands but RF interference in the VHF and UHF frequencies of FM broadcast transmitters can also be problematic, especially if the FM transmitter is line of site or in close proximity to your location. In your instance the length of wires and/or interconnects may not always be the cause. As I understand, your components are the same as you had set up previously with no issues. In this case another area which could be causing your RFI problem is with the 12AX7 tube or with the low voltage wall power supply module. If it's not the cartridge or tonearm causing the problem, it sounds like you have a connection or component which is acting as a diode detector and/or overloading in the input grid circuit of the 12AX7 tube in your phono pre.
Ideally it would be nice to simply borrow another phono preamp and see if that exhibits the same problem. Perhaps you've done that. If you haven't done this...pull the tube from your phono pre and either try another new 12AX7 or clean the tube pins and the tube socket very thoroughly with something like "DEOXIT" or a quality contact cleaner using a Qtip. Insert the tube a few times to clean the socket contacts. Do the same with all of your interconnect plugs. Slight corrosion or dirty contacts of the tube and socket can cause a very high resistance point which can act as a diode rectifying the RF from the FM station. Another area would be the low voltage power module (wall wart) with your phono pre. These units can also act as a diode detector picking up the FM interference. Either replace that unit or you can use a small toroidal choke core and wrap as much of the low voltage power cord around the toroid core. I would start with a #43 core material ferrite toroid. You don't have to cut any wires, simple wind the power cord around the toroid on the wire end that plugs into your Bellari. Amazon or ebay are sources for the ferrite toroid if you can't find them local. I hope your interference is gone so you can enjoy the music. Take care.
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Hey Guy,
:banghead:
:hyper:
:?: :?:
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Now theoretically a phono pre-amp can't pick-up FM transmission. But real world FM transmitters also have an AM component that can be de-modulated by nearby sensitive circuits.
This Jim Brown paper has more about EMC (EMI/RFI interference) than most need to know.
Don't let the title fool you.
"A Ham's Guide to RFI, Ferrites, Baluns, and Audio Interfacing"
by Jim Brown K9YC
Audio Systems Group, Inc.
http://audiosystemsgroup.com
The basis of this tutorial is a combination of my engineering education, 55 years in ham radio, my
work as vice-chair of the AES Standards Committee working group on EMC, and extensive research
on RFI in the pro audio world where I’ve made my living.
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf
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Hi MightyG, neobop and Speedskater
and whoever is interested in my (Let's call it) FM problem.
I just got my Rega RB-301 tone arm from the operating room
and it's sitting on my office desk waiting for me to remove the bandages.
(Packing bubble wrap.)
I've been a little busy this week, but tomorrow (Sunday)
I will put it back on his final resting place which is the Rega P3 turntable.
The doctor has installed a grounding wire that is supposed to be welded to the tone arm interior body.
We will see what will happen and if the interference (Unwanted Vietnamese boring music) will be gone,
certainly hope so, otherwise I will kill myself or kill that turntable which ever is the easiest.
Will get back to you as soon as possible.
Thanks for inquiring about my #$$%^&*(&^%$#@$% problem.
Guy 13
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Now theoretically a phono pre-amp can't pick-up FM transmission. But real world FM transmitters also have an AM component that can be de-modulated by nearby sensitive circuits.
This Jim Brown paper has more about EMC (EMI/RFI interference) than most need to know.
Don't let the title fool you.
"A Ham's Guide to RFI, Ferrites, Baluns, and Audio Interfacing"
by Jim Brown K9YC
Audio Systems Group, Inc.
http://audiosystemsgroup.com
The basis of this tutorial is a combination of my engineering education, 55 years in ham radio, my
work as vice-chair of the AES Standards Committee working group on EMC, and extensive research
on RFI in the pro audio world where I’ve made my living.
http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf
Hi Speedskater.
Wow... That's over 60 pages of reading...
Holy smoke, that's a lot of reading.
I had to practice my fast reading skill, which was very rusted.
I will read again what I have misted in my first reading.
Very interesting, but a little too technical for me, even with my basic in electronic diploma.
Thanks.
Guy 13
I might try to install mt tone arm this evening.
(Saturday night... live...)
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Hi all.
I've installed my Rega RB301/Exact mm combo on my Rega P3 turntable,
I've connected the interconnects and the new ground wire to the Bellari VP-129 and guess what?
Keep in mind that my name is Guy 13, therefore, thirteen means bad luck, well...
The FM interference is almost gone, I have to turn the volume control to maximum and put my hear against the speaker to hear it, but it's still there.
However, there is a fairly loud hummm... At maximum level, which is not where I set it to listen to music.
And, the sound is a little thin and the output level of the cartridge is not what it use to be.
I suspect the the re-tipping by Soundsmith as changed something to the output of the cartridge, that don't seams to be possible/logical, but that's what I hear.
I did a switcharoo between my Rega and my cheap automatic Sony turntable and guess what ?
No interference whatsoever, no hummm with my 175 USD Sony,
but a very cheap sound, almost none listenable...
For now, I will listen to CDs and try not to look at my turntable until I come up with a solution...
At 66 years old, I don't need frustrations like that, I have enough frustrations living in Vietnam. Do I need more from my audio stuff.
I think not.
Guy 13
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"The FM interference is almost gone, I have to turn the volume control to maximum and put my hear against the speaker to hear it, but it's still there.
However, there is a fairly loud hummm... At maximum level, which is not where I set it to listen to music."
What about that hum at normal listening levels, can you hear it?
If you had the cartridge rebuilt with a new tip and cantilever, it might take a few hours or more for the suspension to settle in.
neo
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"The FM interference is almost gone, I have to turn the volume control to maximum and put my hear against the speaker to hear it, but it's still there.
However, there is a fairly loud hummm... At maximum level, which is not where I set it to listen to music."
What about that hum at normal listening levels, can you hear it?
If you had the cartridge rebuilt with a new tip and cantilever, it might take a few hours or more for the suspension to settle in.
neo
Hi neo.
I was so upset that I forgot to see/hear if the humm was present
at mid setting volume.
I will do that later on this morning.
I had a good night sleep to calm down,
because yesterday I was really, super up-set.
Yes, you are right, I will have to put some millage on the re-tipped cartridge
before I can appreciate the work of Soundsmith re-tipping.
(With my Sony automatic cheap turntable I have not FM and no humm...)
I have a few more things to try before I put to sale or throw in a corner my Rega/Bellari combo.
Guy 13
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Hi Guy13
if you have such problems it's got to do with the phono preamp...not the tt...
good luck in finding the fault... :thumb:
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Hi Guy13
if you have such problems it's got to do with the phono preamp...not the tt...
good luck in finding the fault... :thumb:
Hi Georgopoulos.
The more I circle around the combo (Rega RB301 arm + Bellari VP129 phono stage) the more I think the problem might be the Bellari, because the Rega arm is sheilded properly and connected to the Bellari grounding lug.
I will do more investigation, even if it makes me more aggressive... :duh:
Guy 13
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Hi Georgopoulos.
The more I circle around the combo (Rega RB301 arm + Bellari VP129 phono stage) the more I think the problem might be the Bellari, because the Rega arm is sheilded properly and connected to the Bellari grounding lug.
I will do more investigation, even if it makes me more aggressive... :duh:
Guy 13
Guy,
This doesn't make sense. Unless I misunderstood, you substituted an old Sony and it was dead quiet? Did you plug the Sony into the Bellari?
Without an antenna the RF isn't a problem with the Sony, and now with Rega you have to crank it all the way and put your ear next to the speaker?
" I think the problem might be the Bellari, because the Rega arm is sheilded properly and connected to the Bellari grounding lug."
Really? Why are you getting hum?
I can tell you right now, either
1) you have a ground loop - the tech didn't disconnect the the arm ground from the channel ground, OR,
2) the "welded" ground connection inside the arm doesn't make a good enough connection.
It's unlikely the wire itself is bad, so where does that leave us? You can install a couple of small caps inside Bellari like Quiet Earth suggested, to deal with radio remnants. It might make it sound better anyway, but the problem is still with the arm.
If you want to test for a ground loop, disconnect the arm from preamp. With your meter check at minimum resistance setting between the end of the ground wire and the outside of each channel plug. Move it around and make sure you have good contact. You should get nothing.
To make a proper ground connection inside the arm pillar the area must be sanded down first. The anodized finish has to be removed. Instructions were in an earlier post.
neo
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Guy,
It's probably just a little older than advertised. Do you think it would be worthwhile for them to copy the entire table? It's a shame you sold the Linn, but all you can do now is move on.
Okay, that looks better. Now, the question is, where does that black ground wire go to inside the arm, and is it still connected in there? It should be connected to a ground inside the arm, if it wasn't pulled out. If that black wire is disconnected inside, then you would have to make a ground connection on the aluminum part of the arm tube or pillar. Lets assume (at least for now) that it's still connected inside.
Now, what you have to do is disconnect that bridge between the bottom ground connector for the black wire, and connector for the left channel ground (blue). Don't worry about that brown strap. It shouldn't matter.
Here are instructions for a complete DIY rewire job, including making a new ground connection inside the arm. Hopefully, you won't need it:
http://www.vinylengine.com/hotwiredrega.pdf
neo
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If you have a spare tube, roll it into the Bellari.
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If you have a spare tube, roll it into the Bellari.
Hi yeldrab.
Did that already more than one time.
This morning I took my Rega turntable with my Bellari phono and plugged it on my mini Sony receiver on another outlet.
Still some interference, not much, but still there and still quite a bit of humm...
I've by passed the Bellari (Took the Rega interconnects and plugged them directly in the aux. in of the Sony, of course with a mm cartridge not much was coming out, therefore I cranked up to volume to maximum and there was no interference and no humm, so I must conclude that the Bellari is the trouble maker.
I am not wrecking my brain or what's left of it, to see where I could borrow a (Tube) phono stage?
Maybe a AC member as one that he's not using and would be generous enough to land it to me for a test and if I like it I could buy it something like 1$ per week for life... :lol:
I am not spinning CDs until I find a solution.
Guy 13
Thanks for posting.
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Hi yeldrab.
Did that already more than one time.
This morning I took my Rega turntable with my Bellari phono and plugged it on my mini Sony receiver on another outlet.
Still some interference, not much, but still there and still quite a bit of humm...
I've by passed the Bellari (Took the Rega interconnects and plugged them directly in the aux. in of the Sony, of course with a mm cartridge not much was coming out, therefore I cranked up to volume to maximum and there was no interference and no humm, so I must conclude that the Bellari is the trouble maker.
I am not wrecking my brain or what's left of it, to see where I could borrow a (Tube) phono stage?
Maybe a AC member as one that he's not using and would be generous enough to land it to me for a test and if I like it I could buy it something like 1$ per week for life... :lol:
I am not spinning CDs until I find a solution.
Sorry, wrong again, or maybe I should say not necessarily. A MM phono stage has 20dB more gain than a high level input. It might be more than 20dB, so any phono stage is much more likely to amplify interference, hum, RF. This isn't a valid test.
Why don't you answer my questions?
Did you plug an old Sony turntable into the Bellari and it was dead quiet, or did I misunderstand?
"With my Sony automatic cheap turntable I have not FM and no humm..."
neo
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Sorry, wrong again, or maybe I should say not necessarily. A MM phono stage has 20dB more gain than a high level input. It might be more than 20dB, so any phono stage is much more likely to amplify interference, hum, RF. This isn't a valid test.
Why don't you answer my questions?
Did you plug an old Sony turntable into the Bellari and it was dead quiet, or did I misunderstand?
"With my Sony automatic cheap turntable I have not FM and no humm..."
neo
Hi neo.
I did try my Sony cheap automatic turntable,
but not connected to my Bellari because the Sony as a ss built in phono stage,
I could only connect the Sony to my Sony receiver on the auxiliary input
and had no interference and hum.
I did connect my Rega output without the Bellari directly on the auxiliary input of the Sony receiver,
no.... Wait, I did so many tests tht I don't remember.
I will do the same test again to make double sure.
I am trying to find a way to borrow a tube phono unit and see/hear if I still have the same problem,
but that won't be easy, who would trust a crazy guy like me.
I don't know if that makes sense or if this is a crazy idea,
but how about wrapping the Bellari completely in aluminum sheet, those same type of sheet you use to cook food and ground the whole thing to the ground of a wall outlet.
Yes, I know that's crazy,
but I am desperate to find a solution to my problem.
I have 80 freshly washed vinyl waiting to be spin.
I wonder if I connect the Sony turntable with built in phono to the Bellari
and put the Bellari volume control to or near minimum, that might work
and confirm where the problem is.
With what I did, I am pretty sure that the problem comes from the Bellari
and no the Rega turntable arm.
Guy 13
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You can plug the Sony into Bellari only if you can bypass the Sony phono stage. Can you do that with Sony?
What's the hum like on the Rega/Bellari at normal loud listening levels?
Because you have to turn it up all the way and put your ear next to the speaker to hear any RF means we can probably fix that.
Bellari is already in an aluminum case isn't it? The hum indicates a grounding problem.
I think the rewire job was a failure. Sorry, but why else hum?
Could you test the Rega wires like I asked? Do you have a meter or continuity tester? Either the ground wire is still connected to the channel ground, or the new internal ground connection is bad, or both.
You can get a couple of silver mica capacitors for Bellari. They're cheap - only a couple of dollars. It's that damn Rega arm that's the problem. Why couldn't they do it right in the first place?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99232)
This is the cap:
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-100pF/dp/B004RPPCMU/ref=pd_sim_indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z3VNTA19Z17X6JAGANB
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-150pF/dp/B004RPPCNY
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-220pF/dp/B004RPMUUC/ref=pd_sim_indust_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DZ5VMK4198D36G8Z8PS
neo
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Hi Guy13
here is a cheap phono stage you can try to test your equipment..
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AC1649
all the best,and good luck.. :thumb:
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You can plug the Sony into Bellari only if you can bypass the Sony phono stage. Can you do that with Sony?
What's the hum like on the Rega/Bellari at normal loud listening levels?
Because you have to turn it up all the way and put your ear next to the speaker to hear any RF means we can probably fix that.
Bellari is already in an aluminum case isn't it? The hum indicates a grounding problem.
I think the rewire job was a failure. Sorry, but why else hum?
Could you test the Rega wires like I asked? Do you have a meter or continuity tester? Either the ground wire is still connected to the channel ground, or the new internal ground connection is bad, or both.
You can get a couple of silver mica capacitors for Bellari. They're cheap - only a couple of dollars. It's that damn Rega arm that's the problem. Why couldn't they do it right in the first place?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=99232)
This is the cap:
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-100pF/dp/B004RPPCMU/ref=pd_sim_indust_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z3VNTA19Z17X6JAGANB
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-150pF/dp/B004RPPCNY
http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Mica-Capacitor-Guitar-220pF/dp/B004RPMUUC/ref=pd_sim_indust_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DZ5VMK4198D36G8Z8PS
neo
Hi neo.
I will get back to you with answers to all your questions.
I am busy packing/preparing for a 4 days trip to Dalat city with my wife,
her aunt from Chicago (She paying for the trip, thanks auntie.)
and two sisters in law.
4 days for 2 years of hard work, that little, but better than nothing.
It's a 6 hours drive (Average speed here is 50 mph) but the view is fantastic:
Mountains, lakes, pine trees and most important a much cooler temperature, because the month of May is the hottest of the whole year with the thermometer circling around 95F.
I might be able to find time to do some test and write up my findings.
Thanks for your help, highly appreciated from a desperate Rega/Bellari owner.
Maybe I should get a Mickey Mouse player?
Does it play 33RPM vinyl?
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Hi Guy13
here is a cheap phono stage you can try to test your equipment..
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AC1649
all the best,and good luck.. :thumb:
Hi Georgopoulos.
Thanks for the link.
First I must find the problem,
as I want to keep the Bellari that is paid for.
I have more tests to do and then,
I will post my findings.
Thanks again.
Guy 13
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Hi neo and all.
I’ve just finish doing a zillion tests of my Rega/Bellari
and here is what I did:
By the way, now my problem is more the Hmmm than the interference, it’s not loud enough to stop me to listen to music, but it’s definitely there.
The recently added ground wire is really making contact with the inside of the arm’s tube; I’ve checked it with my Ohm meter.
It’s now connected to the ground lug of the Bellari.
I’ve tried to position the Bellari at different locations, within the length of the 1M interconnects.
I tried to relocate the 12VAC wallwart adaptor; I even tried the 230V adaptor that came with the unit.
I switch from a Ruby 12AX7 to a NOS Sylvania and back to the original Ruby tube that came with the unit.
I could not try to bypass the built-in phono pre-amp in the Sony
Automatic turntable. (Too delicate job of unsoldering hair size wires.
I tried to connect the arm interconnects directly in the Decware amplifier, by passing completely the Bellari and of course, I had no humm no interference, if I put my ear against the driver I can hear something but it very faith, almost inaudible.
Well, I know that test does not mean much, but I had to try it.
I did the same thing with my Sony receiver plugging the arm interconnects into the auxiliary input.
I even try to wrap the tube only, then the whole Bellari in aluminum sheet and ground it to the Bellari, I also grounded the Bellari to the Decware.
I’ve notice something while doing all those tests, when I put my hand near the Bellari (Especially the tube) the humm increase; I also put my hand on the arm and the cartridge, but no increase of humm.
Look as if the 12VAC cable from the wallwart adaptor is sensible to induction from the amplifier and turntable motor.
What I cannot understand is why in my other house I did not have any of those crazy problems ? ? ? ?
I did one last test.
I took my wife’s Pioneer ss receiver/amplifier with her permission, I don’t want to die.
It as a phono input with a grounding lug.
So I plugged everything and guess what?
No more humm, zero humm, no interference, zero interference and plenty of power, of course, it’s a ss 100wpc.
So, is it too early to conclude that the Bellari is the trouble maker?
I think so.
Question: What am I gona do about it?
Answer: Nothing for now.
No, I cannot keep the Pioneer, my wife don’t want, I was luck enough that she gave me permission to do my test, I won’t push my luck further, I want to live.
I would like to buy another phono pre-amplifier, but like they say:
No money, no candy.
In my case it’s no phono pre-amp.
I will not buy one of those El-Cheapo 50 USD phono stage,
Because that 50 USD could be more useful somewhere else.
Well, that’s it for now and for a long time.
Guy 13
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Try plugging in the wallwart on another circuit without turntable. Or if its a different circuit already try plugging into same circuit. Ive had a few issues with not being on the same circuit and producing hmm.
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Try plugging in the wallwart on another circuit without turntable. Or if its a different circuit already try plugging into same circuit. Ive had a few issues with not being on the same circuit and producing hmm.
Hi Nick77
Already tried all that.
(In the other house,
everything was on the same circuit,
without any problem.)
Thanks for the suggestion.
Guy 13
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Guy,
Wrapping Bellari in tin foil might help with RF. It won't do anything for hum.
Did you check the ground wire from Rega to see if there's any connection left with the RCA grounds?
Maybe it is fixed, but you won't be 100% sure until you check.
The AC wiring in one house might be different from another. There's something else you could try. Hook Rega to Bellari in the usual manner. Then run an additional ground wire from Bellari to your linestage or integrated amp. Hook it up to the same ground post on Bellari and to a chassis screw on your amp. This must make a good connection and not contact a painted surface.
It often helps to have your amps connected to the same power line.
neo
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Guy,
Wrapping Bellari in tin foil might help with RF. It won't do anything for hum.
Did you check the ground wire from Rega to see if there's any connection left with the RCA grounds?
Maybe it is fixed, but you won't be 100% sure until you check.
The AC wiring in one house might be different from another. There's something else you could try. Hook Rega to Bellari in the usual manner. Then run an additional ground wire from Bellari to your linestage or integrated amp. Hook it up to the same ground post on Bellari and to a chassis screw on your amp. This must make a good connection and not contact a painted surface.
It often helps to have your amps connected to the same power line.
neo
Hi neo.
Wrapping the Bellari with aluminium sheet is a move from a desperate person.
I had to do it.
As clearly stated in a previous post, (Sorry, don't want to be rude or impolite)
but I did check with my Ohm-meter to make sure that the ground wire installed by the Vietnamese technician was making good contact from the inside of the arm's tube and it was making good contact.
The interconnects left and right common/ground does not make contact with the earth ground connected to the arm tube.
I am sure (Without any solid proof) that the house wiring is different from my previous house.
Here they have no electrical law when it comes to house wiring and if they have laws they are for sure not applied.
I tried to connect the ground from the Bellari to the Decware, to the main ground of the Majik Buss line filter, to two different wall outlets, no improvement, no difference.
I know how to make a good ground connection to a painted metal chassis, for many years I designed and built large industrial electrical control for gas burner management.
I think I have a few notions about electricity and ground.
I sure don't want to sound pretentious, sorry if I put that in a way that look like that.
I am always open to suggestions, comments or anything that can help me, regardless from whom it comes, younger or older person. You always have
something to learn from other, even in your own field of work.
All my audio components are connected to my Majik Buss line filter and all the power cords are grounded and polarity have been checked.
For now, I have put away the Bellari with accessories in a box on a shelve.
I will calm down and let my relief valve relief the pressure.
For now, I listen to CDs and I enjoy the music on my SET amplifier and my extended range OB Dipole speakers.
Thanks all for your help.
Guy 13
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Best of luck with the repair or replacement.
neo
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Best of luck with the repair or replacement.
neo
Thanks neo.
Guy 13
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If I remember, lots of folks had noise from the stock Bellari wall wart. A friend has one and bought a substitute wall wart from Radio Shack within a week of purchase. It makes no noise, now.
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If I remember, lots of folks had noise from the stock Bellari wall wart. A friend has one and bought a substitute wall wart from Radio Shack within a week of purchase. It makes no noise, now.
Hi yelarb.
I have two Bellari PS-12 (Output 12VAC) one is 220V and the other 120V.
I even bought a small transformer 220V - 12VAC Made in China from the local electronic flea market, they are all the same, in the sense that they make no difference on the interference.
I don't think the Bellari wall wart have any built in filtration.
The Bellari 120V. is plugged on my Majik Buss line filter - conditioner.
I will try to plug them on a wall outlet on another circuit in another room
via an extension cord.
I will also find a way to shield the 12VAC wire going to the Bellari
and find a new ground line from the wall outlet.
As you can see, I have some experimenting to do.
I will get back to you with the results,
if you don't hear from me,
it's because I would not have succeeded in my experimenting
and decided that life without my turntable was not worth living,
therefore I would have jumped from the 13th floor.
Why the 13th floor you might ask? Well, 13 is my lucky number.
Guy 13
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google Bellari noise problems and read about the noise from the wall wart.
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google Bellari noise problems and read about the noise from the wall wart.
Hi yeldrab.
Thanks for the idea.
Sometime simple idea just don't pop up in my head.
Browsing true all the comments from many Bellari owners,
gave me a few idea to try to solve the problem.
I will probably concentrate my efforts on grounding the body
and shielding the tube.
I've tried three different wall wart, in three different wall outlet
and also via my Majik Buss.
I will try to shield the 12VAC cord from the wall wart to the Bellari.
Even if my ideas/trials don't make sense, I try them anyway, who knows, by trying, I might unexpectedly discover the problem.
Thanks.
Guy 13
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If you want to try a completely different phono preamp to see if this eliminates all of your noise issues, I would be happy to lend you one of ours.
Give me a call at 651-330-9871 if you are interested.
Sincerely,
Frank Van Alstine
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If you want to try a completely different phono preamp to see if this eliminates all of your noise issues, I would be happy to lend you one of ours.
Give me a call at 651-330-9871 if you are interested.
Sincerely,
Frank Van Alstine
Hi Frank.
Thanks for the offer,
but unfortunately, I have to turn down your offer, sorry
(Thanks for offering, that's nice of you.)
because you might not be aware that I am living (Stuck) on (Planet) Vietnam.
Therefore the cost of bringing your unit to Vietnam (Transport + custom tax),
would be what I want to pay for a new unit and to return it, in case I don't like it,
would be also very expensive and I would not get a reimbursement for the duty tax paid.
Thanks again for your nice offer.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
Soon I will be installing a PDR linear arm (Ball bearing + glass tubes) to replace my Rega RB301 on my Rega P3 turntable.
The PDR linear arm is a gift from a generous AC member.
With this new set up, I will not be using my Bellari VP-129 because of the interference and hum problems I had before.
Therefore, I did my homework and search on the web what would be the best buy for 150 USD or less, preferably 100 USD.
I usually whenever possible, try to buy Made in USA.
My first choices were the Vista at 300 USD and the Hagerman Bugle 2 at 189 USD, despite their very good reputation,
I have now a maximum budget of 150 USD (+ transport + custom tax.)
Many candidates fall into the 150 USD less category.
I went on Amazon and Crutchfield, but I have to pay for transport and custom tax or wait for a long time for a relative to bring it over to planet Vietnam.
However, on the first week of September I will be in Hong Kong on a business trip and I will take advantage of that trip to pay a visit to the ProJect authorized dealer to have a look at the ProJect Phono Box MM or DC.
Any opinions or advices on my choice.
Minds you, this is not final yet.
I am trying to stay away from 50 USD less and Made in China units.
Guy 13
One more thing.
My criteria are:
Same or better specs than the Bellari VP129
Walwart and DC from batteries.
Tube, but for 150 USD less, forget it.
Good reviews, minds you, I don't know why I am writing this,
reviews sometime are misleading.
-
e.
Therefore, I did my homework and search on the web what would be the best buy for 150 USD or less, preferably 100 USD.
I usually whenever possible, try to buy Made in USA.
My first choices were the Vista at 300 USD and the Hagerman Bugle 2 at 189 USD, despite their very good reputation,
I have now a maximum budget of 150 USD (+ transport + custom tax.)
Many candidates fall into the 150 USD less category.
Guy 13
For 150 usd you can buy second hand... :lol:
-
For 150 usd you can buy second hand... :lol:
Hi Georgopoulos.
I rarely buy second hand,
maybe that's why my pockets are empty.
Second hand from another country is asking for trouble...
Thanks anyway.
Guy 13
-
I recently purchased an Emotiva phono pre. It is solid state, but it does both MM and MC. Don't know if they ship to you, but for $150, I have been very pleased.
-
I recently purchased an Emotiva phono pre. It is solid state, but it does both MM and MC. Don't know if they ship to you, but for $150, I have been very pleased.
Hi yeldarb.
I went on Emotiva's website
and the unit looks good, seems to be well built,
but, I will have to pay for transport an custom tax which might amount to as much as 50%
of the price of the unit.
If I buy from Hong Kong, I can hand carry and pay nothing other than the price of the unit,
plus, I have to go to Hong Kong every three months anyway,
which increase my chances of being able to take advantage of the warranty.
Thanks anyway for the recommendation.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
My PDR linear arm is now at the post office and I am waiting to get the release of the custom to pick-it up.
In the mean time, I am so anxious that I have already started to take the Rega RB301 arm of the Rega P3 turntable.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104424)
The RB301 is for sales, but only for local pick-up, if I don`t get a good price for it, I might keep it in my museum of Rega horror.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104425)
I have also made from scratch a junction box for the interconnects and the tiny weeny little wires that will go the the cartridge, they have to be very small so that they don't interfere with the movement of the linear arm and cartridge.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104426)
Stay tuned, more interesting stuff to come.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
My PDR linear arm is now at the post office and I am waiting to get the release of the custom to pick-it up.
In the mean time, I am so anxious that I have already started to take the Rega RB301 arm of the Rega P3 turntable.
The RB301 is for sales, but only for local pick-up, if I don`t get a good price for it, I might keep it in my museum of Rega horror.
I have also made from scratch a junction box for the interconnects and the tiny weeny little wires that will go the the cartridge, they have to be very small so that they don't interfere with the movement of the linear arm and cartridge.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104426)
Stay tuned, more interesting stuff to come.
Guy 13
Hi Guy,
You might want to hold on to that 301, at least for now. It looks like you have a couple of feet of unshielded wire going to your junction box from the arm?
Assuming you still live in the same place, you might have a problem with those wires and RFI. If you braid those wires it should help.
Good luck with the project,
neo
-
Hi Guy,
You might want to hold on to that 301, at least for now. It looks like you have a couple of feet of unshielded wire going to your junction box from the arm?
Assuming you still live in the same place, you might have a problem with those wires and RFI. If you braid those wires it should help.
Good luck with the project,
neo
Hi neo.
Of course the tiny wires going from the cartridge to the junction box are not shielded,
how can such small wires like that be shielded?
As far as I know, no linear arm wires are shielded.
(I hope the way I wrote the above is not too rude,
because from previous experience, I know a lot of sensitive AC members would take that as a rude behavior from my part.)
I did try that set-up with my wife’s home theater Pioneer amplifier with a phono input and no hum at all.
So far, so good.
Of course I will keep the Rega RB301 arm, at least until I know the new set up works 100% hum and interference free.
However, after that, I will say: Farewell RB301 trouble maker.
Please don’t assume that I still live in the same place, because I do live in the same house, remember, I am stuck here.
To braid the wires, I presume that’s the same as twisting them together, so that’s what I will do, but I have to be careful not to make the bundle too stiff.
Thanks for the good luck, because with that project, there is still a lot of unknown factors.
Thanks for your concern about my set up.
By the way, the PDR linear arm is still at the post office, because they want an official letter from my wife for the quantity of unit in the box, they have no idea what a linear arm is, especially that it’s in a kit and the value, again, they haven’t got the slightest idea of the value of those odd bit and pieces, separate parts in a sealed packaging.
Stay tuned, more to come and what’s coming will be a lot more interesting than the boring stuff you already read.
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104453)
-
Often the tone arm has at least a thin layer of metal to act as a shield. And each channels tw wires should be a twisted pair.
-
Often the tone arm has at least a thin layer of metal to act as a shield. And each channels tw wires should be a twisted pair.
Hi Speedskater.
I will surf the Internet to find some pictures of how they do it.
My reference is often Needle Doctor.
Thanks.
Guy 13
-
Hey Guy13, I read most of this thread late last night before I went to bed.. I’m sorry I don’t have the type of knowledge to help you like other members have.
You must have the patience of a saint because I remember thinking as I went to bed at 2am groggy from reading …. if that was my turntable and phono preamp.. The Rega would have been flying out of my third floor window, closely followed by (and probably still attached Bellari)
I do hope you can figure out a way to correct this extremely annoying problem.
Best of luck,
Brooklyn
-
Hey Guy13, I read most of this thread late last night before I went to bed.. I’m sorry I don’t have the type of knowledge to help you like other members have.
You must have the patience of a saint because I remember thinking as I went to bed at 2am groggy from reading …. if that was my turntable and phono preamp.. The Rega would have been flying out of my third floor window, closely followed by (and probably still attached Bellari)
I do hope you can figure out a way to correct this extremely annoying problem.
Best of luck,
Brooklyn
Hi Brooklyn.
For my patience, it’s like a roller coaster, up and down.
Many times I wanted to throw out of the window from the fourth floor the Rega and Bellari, but I did not do it, because at the last second I came back to my senses.
According to my wife that took care of the paper work for the post office, the PDR linear arm should be in my listening room no later then Sunday, if everything goes well, which is rarely the case here on planet Vietnam.
If I’m switching from the Rega RB301 to the PDR linear arm, it’s because it’s a gift from a generous AC member and at the same time, it’s to get out of my face the Rega RB301 cheap arm.
For the Bellari VP129 I gave up trying to solve the hum problem
and there is good chance that I will buy a ProJect Phono Box DC or MM with a walwart and compatible with battery to eliminate chances of 50Hz hum.
I hope the Rega/phono stage up-grade will eliminate all my problems, because I don’t need problems in my life, enough already.
Thanks for taking the time to write me.
Guy 13
-
Hey Guy did you mount that glass linear on your Rega?
Picts? Followup?
I think that is a real cool tonearm setup. Those wires cannot really be twisted so leave them hang separated that is all you can do.
Let us know.
-
Hey Guy,
Wondering if the tone arm made it as well.
Been longer than a goats gestation.....lol.
Remember the P3 I used to measure for your arm?
its seen better days, holes drilled in the plinth,
marked and scuffed. So I made a new one.
I'll start a thread, its different looking now.
I hope you get the bugs all worked out with your
phono pre problems, I really hope that new arm works for you.
Dont get rid of the 301 just yet....there are glass tubes in the package,
I hope they made it.
-
Hey Guy did you mount that glass linear on your Rega?
Picts? Followup?
I think that is a real cool tonearm setup. Those wires cannot really be twisted so leave them hang separated that is all you can do.
Let us know.
Hi bacobits1
After a long space shuttle trip from the US of A to planet Vietnam,
the PDR arm landed safely on this planet,
planet Vietnam that is.
Then the PDR arm was taken hostage by the Vietnamese post office
because they did'nt have the slightest idea what that device was,
they probably thought it was some world war I destructing device.
My wife filled in tons of paper work and whent thru lots of red tape,
but at last, at long, lonmg last, the hostage was release
and landed in my listening room.
And because the Vietnamese custom people did not know what it was,
even after my wife sent them a picture of it and it did not look even close
to a flying saucer, they came up with a hefty bill of:
26,800 Dollars, Vietnamese dollars of course, which are called Dongs here
and in real money that's the huge amount of 1.25 USD.
(One dollar and twenty five cent)
I really don't know how I will be able to pay that,
I guess I will have to sell my turntable.
O.K. enough of my absurd jokes.
The PDR arm arived in a zillion tiny pieces...
Joking again.
It was really well packed, nothing was broken and no parts were missing.
Thanks Mr. PDR (Perry) the mysterious man that gave me such a nice gift.
For a few days, I will try to recover from my yesterday business trip
to Hong Kong (23 hours without sleep) and then I will start assembling the puzzle, the audio lego, the kit.
Look forward to have fun and frustrations.
Will get back to you all interested AC members
with pictures and comments,
including the frustrations as they put some spice into my writings.
Guy 13
For the tiny hair size wires, I will see how I can make them stick together
when I have reached that point.
By the way.
I need to buy a phono pre-amplifier to replace my Bellari VP-129 the unfamous trouble maker.
I wanted to buy the Pro-Ject Phono Box MM from the Hong Kong authorized dealer while I was in Hong Kong, but he did even know what the Phono Box MM was, therefore, I will buy the unit from Cructhfied USA and get it shipped to my wife's nephew in Seattle.
It's only 99 USD and if I want,
I can operate it on batteries (12V + 6V = 18VDC) or with the supplied walwart adaptor. Hopefully that will eliminate the interference and the hum.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105044)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105045)
-
Hey Guy,
Wondering if the tone arm made it as well.
Been longer than a goats gestation.....lol.
Remember the P3 I used to measure for your arm?
its seen better days, holes drilled in the plinth,
marked and scuffed. So I made a new one.
I'll start a thread, its different looking now.
I hope you get the bugs all worked out with your
phono pre problems, I really hope that new arm works for you.
Dont get rid of the 301 just yet....there are glass tubes in the package,
I hope they made it.
Hi there Canadian fellow.
Yes, I took forever for your gift to reach destination,
I don't know how long is a goat gestation,
but look to me like it was forever...
Anyway, it did reach destination unharmed.
Thanks for your super packing job.
Wow,
I am anxious to see you past about the new plinth you made
for your Rega P3.
Different looking is good.
I have good hope that in the end,
this new set-up will work fine
and I am sure, it won't sound worst that what I originally had
in the first place.
Thanks again and again.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
O.K. now it's phase one of the PDR linear arm puzzle.
I've put into the large hole, the large bolt that hold the glass tubes assembly
and that was easy.
I tighten by hand so I could aligned everything.
I've been told/warned that I would chase the ball bearings
and I did when they fell off from their glass tube gutter.
While adjusting the zillions allen screws the ball beraing
fell off a few more times.
I finally after a few draken double drak adjusted the arm itself and I temporally taped the cartridge so it would not bang on anything.
So here are a few pictures so that anyone that want to comment
can do it more easily with pictures.
One question.
Where should be located the ball bearing in relation to the arm's shaft?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105121)
The three little brass knobs are for adjusting the angle of the tube
for the tracking force.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105123)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105124)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105125)
Phase two is the adjustments and fine tuning.
Soon to come, don't go away.
Guy 13
-
Guy,
With the arm all the way over to the right, on the arm rest....
One bearing should be over the arm, the other should be all the way to the left against the rubber o ring.
You'll need to draw a line on a piece of paper, punch a hole on the line at one end and use it like a protractor on the platter.
You need to make the line on the paper and the glass arm parallel.... then the needle has to follow the line
Hope this helps...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105138)
-
Guy,
With the arm all the way over to the right, on the arm rest....
One bearing should be over the arm, the other should be all the way to the left against the rubber o ring.
You'll need to draw a line on a piece of paper, punch a hole on the line at one end and use it like a protractor on the platter.
You need to make the line on the paper and the glass arm parallel.... then the needle has to follow the line
Hope this helps...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105138)
Hi Perry.
Thanks for the info.
I have a protractor and I will use it.
However, my wife and I are in the middle of a large contract
that's giving us more trouble than we can handle.
I think next Sunday I will be able to complete the installation,
minus the phono stage.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
My wife's business keep me off the road chasing nice Vietnamese chicks
and since I'm in my office, I took a 5 minutes break and started to adjust my PDR linear arm.
I've use this angle ruller to make sure evrything is at 90 degree.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105350)
Then, I tighten the big bolt (I hope the larger washer goes on top ?)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105351)
Then I made the adjustment to make the glass tubes parallel to the plinth.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105352)
Then, I made sure the arm with the cartridge holder is parallel to the protractor.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105353)
and made sure that the ball bearing are at the right place.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105354)
Is everything O.K. ?
Please tell me know while I am in a good mood.
Tomorrow, I might be in a not so good mood or even worst.
Guy 13
Next step, mount the cartridge and connect the wires, that part might be more delicate and will need some agile and precise fingers, something I don't have...
-
Looking good!
Lets hear it.
-
Looks good Guy.
Dont forget to make the needle follow a straight
line that goes through the spindle.You may have to swing the
glass tube arm a bit to make them parallel to each other. You can adjust
the arms length a little to make it work if you have to,
but it should be very close.
-
Looking good!
Lets hear it.
Hi bacobits.
If you want to hear it, you will have to come on planet Vietnam. :lol:
I have ordered from Amazon a Pro-Ject phono box DC
that will be delivered to my wife's nephew in Seattle,
then his father will bring it on his trip to planet Vietnam in October,
therefore, I have to be patient and wait a little more,
that will give me time to complete the installation/adjustments
of my PDR linear arm.
So, you should buy your space shuttle ticket for planet Vietnam
for end of October to arrive just in time to have a listen to my super TT :lol:
Guy 13
-
Looks good Guy.
Dont forget to make the needle follow a straight
line that goes through the spindle.You may have to swing the
glass tube arm a bit to make them parallel to each other. You can adjust
the arms length a little to make it work if you have to,
but it should be very close.
Hi Perry,
O.K. got that.
Thanks.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
The set up is almost completed.
This is what I did:
With an aluminium coat hanger I did a support contraption for the (hair size)
wires from the junction box to the cartridge.
Hopefully the wires won't pull on the arm.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105516)
An over all view.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105517)
It was not easy to set the weight at 1.8Gr. I had to make sure the tiny wires did not pull or push on the cartridge to change the weight.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105518)
Nest step will be the Pro-Ject Phono Box MM pre-amplifier that I will get next month via a relative from the USA.
Patience.
Guy 13
Perry, I wonder how many times you dropped the ball bearing on the floor.
I must have dropped them a zillion times...
It's like they were alive and did not want to do their job.
-
A zillion and one..... :lol:
Now that you have it more or less set up, the ball
bearing chasing should stop.
Have you tried a record yet?
You wont hear anything with out the amp,
but you can see if it tracks without
interference from the wires.
Clean the tubes with a Q-tip and a little alcohol
if you have any.
-
A zillion and one..... :lol:
Now that you have it more or less set up, the ball
bearing chasing should stop.
Have you tried a record yet?
You wont hear anything with out the amp,
but you can see if it tracks without
interference from the wires.
Clean the tubes with a Q-tip and a little alcohol
if you have any.
Hi Perry.
You beat me on the BB chasing. :thumb:
I have not tried any LP yet,
because I did not see the use/purpose of doing it
if I can't hear anything,
but you brought up a good point,
I will try today or tomorrow depending on my busy schedule.
Q-Tip (Here it's called differently) my wife can supply to me,
without her, the Vietnamese Q-tip factory with close the doors.
Alcohol not sure, I might use instead acetone
which is more readily available here.
Will get back to you with more...
Thanks
Guy 13.
I really have to more the arm slowly and delicately,
otherwise, it fall off of the rail.
-
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105516)
Hi Guy,
Looks like a good antenna. Just kidding I know you don't plan on leaving it like that. I thought I'd show you an example of braided tonearm wire.
http://www.vpiindustries.com/tone-3d.htm
It might take a little experimentation to see how short you can make the wires and where to start braiding. Good luck with the project, it looks like a good one.
neo
-
Hi Guy,
Looks like a good antenna. Just kidding I know you don't plan on leaving it like that. I thought I'd show you an example of braided tonearm wire.
http://www.vpiindustries.com/tone-3d.htm
It might take a little experimentation to see how short you can make the wires and where to start braiding. Good luck with the project, it looks like a good one.
neo
Hi neo.
Of course that set up on the picture is only temporarily,
I will refine the set up as I made a few tweaks here and there
to improve the sound.
I did try that setup as is, but the cartridge's needle was jumping from
one sillon to the other.
But it did sound fairly good.
Now I am getting back to my man's cave, which I call my penthouse
and try to make the set up sound as good as I can.
I will report later on on my success :thumb: of failure :cry:
Guy 13
By the way, I did try my set up with my Bellari VP-129 phonopre-amplifier
and I had a little hum and a little interference when the volume control of my amplifier was at 3pm.
I will get my Pro-Ject phono box MM next month, therefore, the final results will only come next month.
Patience.
-
Hi all.
At last, at long, long last...
It's finish, completed and working fine.
That was something laborious for a guy like me with it's hands full of thumbs.
All the adjustment are made as per Perry and others.
THANKS ALL !
(Especially Perry for his wonderful gift. highly appreciated.)
It was time consuming
and needed a lot of patience for a guy like me.
But it's done and now rewarding.
I've played a few vinyl and it sounded good, why not excellent?
Because I had to still use my Bellari hummer and FM receiver unit.
Now I will not play anymore vinyl because of the BB (Bad Bellari)
and I will wait for my Pro-Ject phono pre-amplifier.
By the way, the Pro-Ject can operate on a walwart 120V input 18V DC output
or one 12VDC battery and one 6 VDC battery in series.
Therefore I should avoid at least the hum.
Thanks, thanks, and one more thanks.
Guy 13
Too bad I cannot use the plastic cover,
but I found a transparent plastic bag that will just rest over the table
and that's fine.
Each year that pass by, I am less demanding
and each year that pass by, I have less money to spend on audio stuff.
That's why I am satisfied with what I have now.
-
Good to hear you have it up and running Guy.
Its great feeling to see it float across the album isnt it.
Like a women, the longer your with her, the more you'll
get to know what she likes and doesnt like.... :wink:
Glad your happy....enjoy.
Perry
-
Good to hear you have it up and running Guy.
Its great feeling to see it float across the album isnt it.
Like a women, the longer your with her, the more you'll
get to know what she likes and doesnt like.... :wink:
Glad your happy....enjoy.
Perry
Hi Perry,
even if my PDR linear arm did not sound better than my Rega RB301,
which is not the case,
it sure look more impressive, very different and is definitely a subject of conversation
and maybe also jealousy.
Guy 13
-
Hi Perry,
even if my PDR linear arm did not sound better than my Rega RB301,
which is not the case,
it sure look more impressive, very different and is definitely a subject of conversation
and maybe also jealousy.
Guy 13
We dont believe you, need pics! :green:
-
We dont believe you, need pics! :green:
Hi Nick77
It's not:
We don't believe you,
it's more like: You don't believe me.
Well if you need picture(s) have a look at
Reply # 144
The only difference is that the tiny wires are now tied together
and I did some tune-up that cannot be seen on the picture.
Well, believe me or not... That's. what it is. :lol:
Guy 13
-
It will be fun to see it tracking in the middle of a record when you'll all setup. Hope your new pre arrive soon.
-
It will be fun to see it tracking in the middle of a record when you'll all setup. Hope your new pre arrive soon.
Hi Nick77
Why do you say it would be fun to see it tracking in the middle of the record?
How about the beginning or the end of the record?
Why especially in the middle of the record, what's so special about the middle???
By the way, my phono pre-amp should arrive in the second half of October.
Patience.
Guy 13
-
It will be fun to see it tracking in the middle of a record when you'll all setup. Hope your new pre arrive soon.
Hi Nick77 and all.
I will have my new Pro-Ject Phono Box DC purchased from Amazon this coming weekend via a relative that will leave Seattle on the 25th and if I am luck and his plane does not crash :nono:
I should have it during the weekend or early next week.
I am very anxious because it's been a long time since I did not play any vinyl
and that my PDR linear arm is been set up and ready to scratch my vintage collection of vinyl.
Little more patience.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
At last, at long long last...
I just go my Pro-Ject Phono Box DC that I've bought from Amazon for 149 USD and that was brought on planet Vietnam by a relative from Seattle.
(No custom tax - no transport fees.)
It's installed and running, however I still have a very faith hum,
but no FM interference, that an improvement over my previous Bellari VP-129
Sounds good, but I suspect that the output of the Pro-Ject is not 2 Volts,
my Decware SE84C+ need a minimum of two volts to give it's full 2wpc.
I will try to swap the walwart (18 VDC) for some batteries. (One 12V + one 6V should do the trick) and see if I still have a residula hum.
Other than that the PDR linear arm works good, I still need to make some fine adjustments, you need to do everything very slowly and carefully otherwise you have to run after the ball bearings that fall off of their glass tubes location.
Thanks to Perry for the PDR linear arm.
I will also have to find a way to protect the whole thing from dust, bceause planet Vietnam have so much dust that they could fill the Grand Canyon with it.
Will update of the final result.
Guy 13
I was surprized to see how small it is.
Could almost fit under the turntable.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107655)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107656)
-
Finally, nice enjoy!
Unshielded interconnects can cause some hum.
Wrap some aluminum foil carefully on the tone arm interconnects at the Pre end and interconnects
from the Pre to the Decware. See if it quiets down completely. Sometimes no ground helps too.
Some times here on a non polarized plug, turning the wall wort plug around in the outlet helps and sound better.
But you may be using something for 220v?
-
Finally, nice enjoy!
Unshielded interconnects can cause some hum.
Wrap some aluminum foil carefully on the tone arm interconnects at the Pre end and interconnects
from the Pre to the Decware. See if it quiets down completely. Sometimes no ground helps too.
Some times here on a non polarized plug, turning the wall wort plug around in the outlet helps and sound better.
But you may be using something for 220v?
Hi bacobits1.
Maybe you need new reading glasses. :lol:
I wrote several times that my interconnects are shielded Signal Cable.
I have to try to turn around the walwart,
I did it with my Bellari walwart
and did not have any improvement, but I will do it any way just in case
and because it cost nothing.
My Pro-Ject walwart is 120V. and it's plugged on my PI Audio Majik Buss.
Yesterday I was fooling around trying different things to try to illuminate completely the hum.
I will do more fooling around this evening.
Guy 13
-
I am sure that you have done this but just in case. Did you connect the ground?
Also, I have a Bellari phono preamp that had a hum until I hooked it into a different surge suppressor from the TT as I have 2 of the same circuit. You could try this too.
-
I am sure that you have done this but just in case. Did you connect the ground?
Also, I have a Bellari phono preamp that had a hum until I hooked it into a different surge suppressor from the TT as I have 2 of the same circuit. You could try this too.
Hi Greyhound.
Yes, I have connected the ground wire and disconnected and re-connected.
I even tried different location.
I've check t make sure I had a good ground on the 120V outlet and I did.
It's strange, because in my other house, the Bellari did have any hum at all and it did not have any ground wire between the Rega RB301 arm and the Bellari unit.
In the new house, next door, with the same set up and Bellari I had lots of hum, plus FM radio interference.
Now, I don't have anymore the FM interference, but I do have some residual hum.
I will try a few more things and report back my findings.
By the way, with my new set up, the PDR linear arm,
I have no ground wire. See the pictures in the earlier posts.
Guy 13
-
Hi all.
Just reverse the walwart without any success, still the same level of hum.
Any more suggestions other than scrap the whole vinyl rig... :lol:
Guy 13
-
Guy,
What did you do about this mess?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105516)
-
Guy,
What did you do about this mess?
Hi neobop.
What mess ???
Haaaa.... The mess with the tiny cartridge wires.
I tried to twist them together, but did not work,
even if their are small they are a little stiff.
I try to put them closer together and use little pieces of Scotch tape,
the result was so, so...
My next trial will be to lower the wires support
and then shorten the small wires.
Each new trial is done on my only free day, which is Sunday.
Therefore, probably by the end of this year,
I will have found an ideal way to route the wires so they look good
and don't interfere with the movement of the arm.
Does that make sense ???
Guy 13
-
"Does that make sense ???"
No, not really. It's not the look that concerns me. I suspect it's the source of your hum, RFI or whatever. Maybe you could shorten it and try an aluminum foil shield like Bacobits suggested.
I just saw this statement: "By the way, with my new set up, the PDR linear arm, I have no ground wire." Good grief. :duh:
C'mon now Guy, you can't break the rules all the time and get away with it. You need to solder or somehow attach a ground wire to the arm. It might be easier to use a ground post and a set of RCAs like the VPI set-up I posted earlier. You just need to leave enough slack so the arm can travel across the record unencumbered. I'm guessing you could lower that coat hanger about a foot or more.
Once you have a ground to the phono stage the hum might go away. If you still have some residual hum you could try an additional ground wire between the phono stage and (pre)amp, but that might not be necessary.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107723)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107724)
-
What Neobop said! You should have a ground wire unless the ground is built into the IC's of the TT like my old Thorens TD-145. With that being said, I would try a ground wire attached to the tone arm and your preamp and see if this fixes the problem.
Guy, what Bellari do you have? If it is the VP-130 it could be the crappy walwart as there is a known problem with the DC power supply. Radio Shack sells a DC power supply wall wart that has filtering and can fix the problem if that is the cause. I have the Bellari 129 and it uses an ac walwart.
The hum can also be due to appliances in your house. Try unplugging the AC, Refrigerator,etc and see if the hum goes away.
-
I've had at least 4 variants on this type of arm and have never ground it.....never had a hum.
The 195 page thread from Diy Audio has dozens of builds on this type of arm, or a close clone....metal bearings
rolling on glass tubes.
None have grounded the arm....http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/238027-diy-linear-tonearm.html
The arm that Guy has worked with no hum here with my AT13e cart on my P3, but my wires were shorter and
are set back in a tube like this pic of the Cantus Opus 3
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107764)
I've also had luck with longer wires hung overhead, this pic is of another I built.....no hum
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm170/PDRCanada/f3a98449-3ece-4997-9703-c872567f5f57_zpsb663f85e.jpg) (http://s296.photobucket.com/user/PDRCanada/media/f3a98449-3ece-4997-9703-c872567f5f57_zpsb663f85e.jpg.html)
Not that grounding the arm wouldnt help in Guys set up.....just havnt needed it before.
I hope you get this sorted Guy... :(
-
"Does that make sense ???"
No, not really. It's not the look that concerns me. I suspect it's the source of your hum, RFI or whatever. Maybe you could shorten it and try an aluminum foil shield like Bacobits suggested.
I just saw this statement: "By the way, with my new set up, the PDR linear arm, I have no ground wire." Good grief. :duh:
C'mon now Guy, you can't break the rules all the time and get away with it. You need to solder or somehow attach a ground wire to the arm. It might be easier to use a ground post and a set of RCAs like the VPI set-up I posted earlier. You just need to leave enough slack so the arm can travel across the record unencumbered. I'm guessing you could lower that coat hanger about a foot or more.
Once you have a ground to the phono stage the hum might go away. If you still have some residual hum you could try an additional ground wire between the phono stage and (pre)amp, but that might not be necessary.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107723)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107724)
Hi neobop.
Since I have replaced my Bellari with the Pro-Ject,
I have no more Radio Interference and a lot less hum.
I already tried s long time ago wrapping everything with aluminum foil
and tried different grounding scheme.
My problem with the grounding of the arm is that I need a tiny wire
and they are sold by sets of four, O.K. they are around 10USD,
no need to break my piggy bank. I will see if I can buy/find one only.
As for the coat hanger, I've already lower it and made the cartridge wires shorter.
I did try to ground different ways the phono and main amplifier, no change.
My last trial will be DC power supply with two batteries (12V + 6V)
Please give me some time to catch my breath...
Guy 13
-
What Neobop said! You should have a ground wire unless the ground is built into the IC's of the TT like my old Thorens TD-145. With that being said, I would try a ground wire attached to the tone arm and your preamp and see if this fixes the problem.
Guy, what Bellari do you have? If it is the VP-130 it could be the crappy walwart as there is a known problem with the DC power supply. Radio Shack sells a DC power supply wall wart that has filtering and can fix the problem if that is the cause. I have the Bellari 129 and it uses an ac walwart.
The hum can also be due to appliances in your house. Try unplugging the AC, Refrigerator,etc and see if the hum goes away.
Hi Greyhound.
My Rega P3 turntable has no ground what so ever.
Even the Rega RB301 arm did not have a ground wire, I had to add one myself.
I have put aside my Bellari VP-129 with Ruby and a spare Sylvania 12AX7.
I've tried two different walwart, the original 220V. and another original for 120V.
both of them did not change/improve anything. Both of them gives 15VAC output.
So, no change to power the VP-129 with DC power supply or batteries.
My listening room is on a separate/upper floor of the kitchen
and my listening room as it's own main breakers.
Guy 13
-
I've had at least 4 variants on this type of arm and have never ground it.....never had a hum.
The 195 page thread from Diy Audio has dozens of builds on this type of arm, or a close clone....metal bearings
rolling on glass tubes.
None have grounded the arm....http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/238027-diy-linear-tonearm.html
The arm that Guy has worked with no hum here with my AT13e cart on my P3, but my wires were shorter and
are set back in a tube like this pic of the Cantus Opus 3
I've also had luck with longer wires hung overhead, this pic is of another I built.....no hum
Not that grounding the arm wouldnt help in Guys set up.....just havnt needed it before.
I hope you get this sorted Guy... :(
Hi Perry.
Thanks for your comments.
The more I try things, the more I think your PDR linear arm is not responsible for the hum.
Like I mentioned earlier I will try a battery power supply with 18VDC battery set up and see.
Those (Lead/gel) batteries are motorcycle batteries and are available at each street corner
and are about 10 USD each.
This is not a life or death thing, therefore, I will look into it, when I have more free time,
because it not because I'm soon to be 67 that it means I am retired.
Thanks.
Guy 13
-
Guy, I would still tape a wire to the tone arm and ground it to the phono preamp just to see if it fixes the problem. It is something that will take 30 seconds.
-
Guy, I would still tape a wire to the tone arm and ground it to the phono preamp just to see if it fixes the problem. It is something that will take 30 seconds.
Hi Greyhound.
I found a jumper wire with alligator clips and I tried it and....
No difference. Perry was right.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestion.
If I try nothing, I cannot fix the problem.
If I try something and it does not work.
Well at least I know it does not work.
Thanks.
Guy 13
By the way:
I took me more than 30 seconds, more than 600 seconds. :lol:
I had to find that jumper wire, that took 95% of the 600 seconds.
-
Is this the same system you're using without hum with other sources?
What else is hooked up to the same AC line? You could try unplugging everything except the phono system and see if it goes away.
Reconnect the ground wire and connect another ground wire between the phono stage and amp. You can use an unpainted chassis screw on the amp. You need bare metal. If the hum goes away leave that wire on and disconnect the one from the arm and see what happens.
Even though you have a dedicated line it could be going to a mains box with other lines? That could be the source of the hum.
If nothing works after Halloween is past, call Ghostbusters.
Final suggestion - move back to the old place.
neo
-
Is this the same system you're using without hum with other sources?
What else is hooked up to the same AC line? You could try unplugging everything except the phono system and see if it goes away.
Reconnect the ground wire and connect another ground wire between the phono stage and amp. You can use an unpainted chassis screw on the amp. You need bare metal. If the hum goes away leave that wire on and disconnect the one from the arm and see what happens.
Even though you have a dedicated line it could be going to a mains box with other lines? That could be the source of the hum.
If nothing works after Halloween is past, call Ghostbusters.
Final suggestion - move back to the old place.
neo
Hi Neo.
My system is the following:
Rega P3 Turntable with (Now) PDR linear arm with Rega Exact MM cartridge.
Pro-Ject Phono Box DC (MM/MC compatible) walwart 120V. in 18VDC out.
Decware SE84C+ SET amplifier 120V.
Rega Apollo CD player 120V.
Bottlehead Crack headphone amplifier 120V.
Omega 7F Open Baffle Dipole.
GR Research SA-1 ss plate amplifier 120V.
PI Audio Majik Buss line filter/conditioner 120V.
All power cords are stock and as short as possible
and away from speakers and interconnects cables.
Interconnects are Signal Cable OFC and shielded.
All power cords are the grounded type.
Everything is 120V. and connected to the Majik Buss.
The wall outlet is dedicated to my system.
I just finish unplugging each item that is not related to vinyl playing.
I tried a ground wire from the arm and the phono stage to the amplifier inside ground buss bar (Cannot find more grounded than that.)
I've tried all kind of ground connection arrangement,
even the one you mention above.
I've switch off all the breaker in the house except the one for my system
and still hum...
Your final suggestion is not good, because the old place is now rented and pays for the mortgage of the new house and kick out the people would be asking for trouble, plus I like my new listening room, because it's on the forth floor, therefore away from the street noise and God knows how noise the streets of Vietnam are.
Tomorrow, I will ask to borrow 12 + 6 V batteries to replace the walwart and see/hear if the hum is gone.
Thanks anyway for the suggestions.
Two heads are better than one, with that hum problem, my head is like scrabble eggs.
Guy 13
-
What's this Majik Buss, a noise filter, a song by the Who? I don't know what it is, but AC filters are notorious for creating what they're supposed to prevent. You might want to try plugging only the components you're using, directly into the wall.
"I tried a ground wire from the arm and the phono stage to the amplifier inside ground buss bar "
Sounds like you made a ground loop. Did it get worse?
You have to connect the ground wire from the arm to the ground lug on the phono stage like you tried before. Then run another wire from the same ground lug on the phono, to a ground somewhere on the amp you're using. Are you biamping?
Here's how I see it. You're getting hum from one of two places, either AC hum or from your phono. It's unlikely you're getting both and if no other source hums, it's probably only your phono.
BTW, no preamp? How do you control the volume?
Sometimes you can get hum between a phono stage and a preamp or amp. It's possible that as many as 3 ground wires are needed to correct. The usual ground from arm to phono, another to preamp, then another to amp. This is hooked up like 1 continuous wire with a couple of stops along the way.
A phono cartridge requires much more gain than other sources to amplify the signal to useable levels. That makes it susceptible to noise and especially magnetic interference. Is it possible those unshielded wires run close to the turntable motor or some transformer? Maybe you can move the wires around, or the phono and get it to stop.
Finally, You already shortened the wires. They terminate in RCA plugs at the phono stage? Secure the wires to the crook in the coat hanger (short as possible) with a cable tie or plastic tie. Unplug the RCA jacks and twist the wires by turning the plugs. Cross your fingers for luck.
neo
-
Unshielded phono wires from the cartridge to anywhere hanging in mid-air are going to hum!
Frank Van Alstine
-
Did the hum start with the arrival of the phono cart? Is your tube amp hum free? Mine isn't, but bearable after installing a bigger choke. Twist the wires so that you have a cancellation effect of RFI. I use twisted pair interconnects homemade from plenum rated Cat 5E and they are dead quiet.
And the Bellari power supplies are known to be crap.
-
What's this Majik Buss, a noise filter, a song by the Who? I don't know what it is, but AC filters are notorious for creating what they're supposed to prevent. You might want to try plugging only the components you're using, directly into the wall.
"I tried a ground wire from the arm and the phono stage to the amplifier inside ground buss bar "
Sounds like you made a ground loop. Did it get worse?
You have to connect the ground wire from the arm to the ground lug on the phono stage like you tried before. Then run another wire from the same ground lug on the phono, to a ground somewhere on the amp you're using. Are you biamping?
Here's how I see it. You're getting hum from one of two places, either AC hum or from your phono. It's unlikely you're getting both and if no other source hums, it's probably only your phono.
BTW, no preamp? How do you control the volume?
Sometimes you can get hum between a phono stage and a preamp or amp. It's possible that as many as 3 ground wires are needed to correct. The usual ground from arm to phono, another to preamp, then another to amp. This is hooked up like 1 continuous wire with a couple of stops along the way.
A phono cartridge requires much more gain than other sources to amplify the signal to useable levels. That makes it susceptible to noise and especially magnetic interference. Is it possible those unshielded wires run close to the turntable motor or some transformer? Maybe you can move the wires around, or the phono and get it to stop.
Finally, You already shortened the wires. They terminate in RCA plugs at the phono stage? Secure the wires to the crook in the coat hanger (short as possible) with a cable tie or plastic tie. Unplug the RCA jacks and twist the wires by turning the plugs. Cross your fingers for luck.
neo
Hi neo.
This topic might end up in the Guinness worldwide record book under:
The longest search for an humless vinyl rig.
Majik Buss is made and sold by PI Audio by Dave.
He's a AC sponsor.
Anyway, I will try to by pass the Majik Buss.
Don't forget that I cannot plug my stuff directly in the wall outlet, because it's 220V.
I have to use a step down transformer to bring it to 120V
and I use the Majik Buss to filter any line interference.
Vietnamese don't care about CE requirement.
With the ground I did everything you mention above and no difference with the hum level.
I don't know if my GR Research SA-1 ss sub woofer plate amplifier is consider as bi-amplification,
but I also did un-plugged those too. Again, no difference.
The hum is present in the Omega and the sub woofer,
but with the sub-woofer disconnected, I get the hum in the Omega 7F.
No pre-amp, my Decware SE84C+ is an Integrated and with my CD player the Decware is death quiet,
even when you put your ear against the drivers.
I've tried:
Ground from arm to phono, phono to integrated amplifier and/or any combination you can think of.
I also tried shutting off the turntable motor, even disconnecting it from the wall, no transformer near by.
I have one last trial to do and that's to by pass the Majik Buss (No it's not a song...)
then the last test I will do, is to replace the walwart with two batteries to have 18V (12V + 6V) of pure DC voltage.
I will get back to you next week.
I hope it will work, otherwise my vinyl rig will gather dust for a very long time.
Guy 13
-
Unshielded phono wires from the cartridge to anywhere hanging in mid-air are going to hum!
Frank Van Alstine
Hi Frank.
I've connected my original Rega RB301 with it's ground wire connected to my Pro-Ject phono stage
and I've put the arm resting on top of the turntable platter temporarily connected
and even if the Rega arm was shielded I had the same hum,
therefore the bare wires are not the problem.
Guy 13
-
Did the hum start with the arrival of the phono cart? Is your tube amp hum free? Mine isn't, but bearable after installing a bigger choke. Twist the wires so that you have a cancellation effect of RFI. I use twisted pair interconnects homemade from plenum rated Cat 5E and they are dead quiet.
And the Bellari power supplies are known to be crap.
Hi yeldrab.
The hum started when I move to my new house with exactly the same set up.
At first with the Bellari VP-129 120V/220V walwart) then with the Pro-Ject
and both arms (Rega RB302 + PDR linear arm) have the same hum.
I had RFI un form of FM music, but that's gone now.
Now I only have 50Hz hum.
It must have something to do with the house,
since I did not have that problem in my previous house which is side by side with our new house.
As I mention earlier, I will try pure DC battery power.
Guy 13
By the way,
the original walwart of the Bellari, the one that came with it when I bought the Bellari,
did work fine in the other house.
-
Hi Frank.
I've connected my original Rega RB301 with it's ground wire connected to my Pro-Ject phono stage
and I've put the arm resting on top of the turntable platter temporarily connected
and even if the Rega arm was shielded I had the same hum,
therefore the bare wires are not the problem.
Guy 13
Not quite sure what this means. "and even if the Rega arm was shielded I had the same hum, therefore the bare wires are not the problem"
Was the Rega tonearm interconnect to the phono preamp shielded or not?
Was a cartridge hooked up?
A phono cart is like a microphone with its amplification requirements. Ever see an unshielded microphone cable? They're shielded because the signal is a very low voltage and prone to pick up hum and RFI. PDR says no one ever had a hum problem with this ungrounded arm even if the wires were hanging in the air. I don't believe him. I suspect plenty of the builders had problems which they were able to work out. Some people run unshielded wires from their arm to phono pre and get away with it. Most of those people braid the wires to help reject hum and noise. Some of them can't work that out. Our previous moderator John TCG lived near a radio tower and was one of those people.
With the ground I did everything you mention above and no difference with the hum level.
I don't know if my GR Research SA-1 ss sub woofer plate amplifier is consider as bi-amplification,
but I also did un-plugged those too. Again, no difference.
The hum is present in the Omega and the sub woofer,
but with the sub-woofer disconnected, I get the hum in the Omega 7F.
No pre-amp, my Decware SE84C+ is an Integrated and with my CD player the Decware is death quiet,
even when you put your ear against the drivers.
I've tried:
Ground from arm to phono, phono to integrated amplifier and/or any combination you can think of.
I also tried shutting off the turntable motor, even disconnecting it from the wall, no transformer near by.
I have one last trial to do and that's to by pass the Majik Buss (No it's not a song...)
then the last test I will do, is to replace the walwart with two batteries to have 18V (12V + 6V) of pure DC voltage.
I will get back to you next week.
I hope it will work, otherwise my vinyl rig will gather dust for a very long time.
Guy 13
First off, the Magic Bus is a song and the name is a play on words.
So, you retried the ground scheme exactly as I described (not through the Majik and w/no multiple connections) and got the same results? That tells me the problem is somewhere in the record player or phono pre.
"The hum is present in the Omega and the sub woofer,
but with the sub-woofer disconnected, I get the hum in the Omega 7F.
No pre-amp, my Decware SE84C+ is an Integrated and with my CD player the Decware is death quiet,
even when you put your ear against the drivers."
What makes you think this is 50Hz hum? Will the Omega play bass? Why does nothing else hum? I suspect it's plain old hum.
Do you have the Phono Box USB output hooked up?
Maybe it has something to do with your step down tranny and battery power will save the day, but it's unlikely.
neo
-
Do you get hum when you install shorting plugs into the phono inputs on your preamp?
Have you tried substituting an inexpensive turntable arm cartridge into your system? Maybe borrow one from a frined.
I know that some Rega turntables do hum with some Grado cartridges due to lack of electomagnetic shielding in both the TT motor and cartridge. Do you possibly have a similar issue?
Frank Van Alstine
-
Do you get hum when you install shorting plugs into the phono inputs on your preamp?
Have you tried substituting an inexpensive turntable arm cartridge into your system? Maybe borrow one from a frined.
I know that some Rega turntables do hum with some Grado cartridges due to lack of electomagnetic shielding in both the TT motor and cartridge. Do you possibly have a similar issue?
Frank Van Alstine
Hi Frank.
I did not try shorting the inputs on my preamp,
because I don't have a preamp.
I have the Project phono stage going directly to the inputs
of my Decware integrated.
Do you mean shorting the input of the ProJect phono stage ?
Could that damage the ProJect phono stage ?
I've tried already a AT3600B mm cartridge and still have the hum.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Guy 13
-
Not quite sure what this means. "and even if the Rega arm was shielded I had the same hum, therefore the bare wires are not the problem"
Was the Rega tonearm interconnect to the phono preamp shielded or not?
Was a cartridge hooked up?
A phono cart is like a microphone with its amplification requirements. Ever see an unshielded microphone cable? They're shielded because the signal is a very low voltage and prone to pick up hum and RFI. PDR says no one ever had a hum problem with this ungrounded arm even if the wires were hanging in the air. I don't believe him. I suspect plenty of the builders had problems which they were able to work out. Some people run unshielded wires from their arm to phono pre and get away with it. Most of those people braid the wires to help reject hum and noise. Some of them can't work that out. Our previous moderator John TCG lived near a radio tower and was one of those people.
First off, the Magic Bus is a song and the name is a play on words.
So, you retried the ground scheme exactly as I described (not through the Majik and w/no multiple connections) and got the same results? That tells me the problem is somewhere in the record player or phono pre.
"The hum is present in the Omega and the sub woofer,
but with the sub-woofer disconnected, I get the hum in the Omega 7F.
No pre-amp, my Decware SE84C+ is an Integrated and with my CD player the Decware is death quiet,
even when you put your ear against the drivers."
What makes you think this is 50Hz hum? Will the Omega play bass? Why does nothing else hum? I suspect it's plain old hum.
Do you have the Phono Box USB output hooked up?
Maybe it has something to do with your step down tranny and battery power will save the day, but it's unlikely.
neo
Hi neo,
it's Saturday 9pm I will soon share the queen bed with my wife,
therefore, I will do what you suggested tomorrow, Sunday my only day off in the whole week.
So, get back to you tomorrow.
Guy 13
A lot of good stuff in your post, anxious to try it.
-
Shorting plugs in the inputs of any AVA product won't hurt them and have not had that as an issue with any non-AVA equipment I have tested here.
I was suggesting first trying shorting plugs into the inputs of your phono preamp.
Frank
-
PDR says no one ever had a hum problem with this ungrounded arm even if the wires were hanging in the air. I don't believe him. I suspect plenty of the builders had problems which they were able to work out. Some people run unshielded wires from their arm to phono pre and get away with it. Most of those people braid the wires to help reject hum and noise....
Yes a lot of them braid...me included.
Read the thread, I've seen no one.....doesnt mean some dont..... ground their arm.
Grounding their arm is what I was referring to.
Read the thread
Neo, I realize your a respected member here, thats very nice for you.
Some one with your vast knowledge can be very helpful, sharing is a great thing to do.
Calling me a liar, makes you less.
I dont lie, never have.
I've posted for many years on Audio circle, made many friends, some
will even vouch for me......I'm a stand up guy.
I sent this arm to Guy FREE, there was no charge.
The parts I paid for, the time was mine to give putting it together.
I sent the the arm with shipping PAID, it was about $120.
That came out of my pocket, to help a fellow AC member.
Thats the type of person I am.
I have to give my head a shake...I guess no good deed really
does go unpunished. :roll:
Done here now, wont be back....carry on.
-
PDR,
Plain and simple, I didn't call you a liar. Maybe I could have worded that more diplomatically, but I made it clear I was referring to problems that were worked out, implying they were unreported. How does that make you a liar if you didn't know? Didn't you say dozens of builds with no ground and no hum and show a photo with wires hanging in the air? That doesn't seem to be the case here does it? So apologies for a poor choice of words or not explaining what I meant, but now that you know (if you read this) that's what I meant and I stand by it.
I know your generosity didn't go unnoticed. My comments have nothing to do with that or the functionality of the arm.
neo
-
Hi Perry, neobop and Frank and all.
O.K. it’s Sunday morning, I had a good night sleep, I’ve stayed put in the bed beside my sexy wife, therefore this morning my body and my mind was up to the task and the task was…
Find that freaking hum problem.
I tried all the grounding scheme that neobop suggested and…
Still humming like a humming bird.
I did what Frank had recommended.
First I’ve unplugged from the phono stage the interconnect from the PDR arm.
Dead quiet.
Then, I reconnected the RCA interconnect in the phono stage.
Hum again.
Then with a RCA bullet connector, I’ve shorted the left channel of the phono stage and kept the right channel connected to the interconnect of the arm.
Left channel quiet, right channel humming.
Then… I reconnected the arm interconnects into the phono stage and move the PDR arm to the center of the T/T platter with the motor running, to see if the motor was the guilty component.
Strange, I had a little less hum with the arm near the running motor.
Then, I’ve put back the arm to his resting place on the right side, which is closer to, closer to…
To the main power transformer of my Decware amplifier which is just beside the T/T.
The main transformer of the Decware is not more than 6” away from the arm/cartridge.
Interesting !
Could it be the 50Hz magnetic field of the Decware main transformer affecting/contaminating the PDR arm and originally the Rega RB-301 arm ? ??
I’ve decided to disconnect everything and move the Decware further away from the T/T.
I did a switcharoo, if you look at the picture of my set up from left to right you have the T/T, the Decware and the Bottlehead Crack.
Now it’s the T/T, the Bottlehead Crack and the Decware.
Now the main transformer of the Decware is about 18” away from the PDR arm.
No more hum. Alleluia, bravo, hourra, youppi…
I’ve fix the problem myself, well, O.K. I guess I was lucky, but come on, give me a little credit here, I’ve worked so hard to find that simple problem, simple, now that I’ve found it and knows what it is.
That could have been a lot easier, if I would have used my noggin.
Now, that I know what I know, I will try the Bellari VP-129 just to see if the problem is gone and I will let you know later on.
Why it never crossed my mind, that the set up in my other house was different. If I remember, the amplifier was not close to the turntable.
Well, now that I found the problem, I will be able to enjoy my vintage vinyl (Ventures, James Last and more…) and I will be able to sleep at night or do something else in the bed.
Anyway, thanks to all of you trying to help me with your experience and knowledge.
Its fun to see that AC members are ready to help another AC member in distress.
A special THANK YOU to Perry for his generous gift, the PDR Super linear arm.
Does the PDR linear arm sound better than the Rega RB301? Honestly, I can’t tell, but it does not sound worst that’s for sure and now my Rega turntable P3 with its awesome PDR linear glass tubes arm look SUPER COOL and will generate lots of interesting comments and make me proud to own such a nice vinyl spinner.
Thanks Perry and all.
Guy 13
I will be back with result of the test I will do with the original Bellari phono stage.
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Hi all.
In my previous post I mentioned that I wanted to try (Again) my Bellari VP-129
to see if I would have the same problem as before with the Decware amplifier main transformer moved away.
Well, I (Still) have a mix of hum and Radio Interference,
not as loud as before, but still loud enough to anoy me.
In addition, the ProJect Phono box DC sounds better than the Bellari,
the Bellari sound thin.
So, the Bellari is returning in it's box and in the corner
with other inferior audio stuff.
End of the story.
Guy 13
One last comment:
Many of my LPs are 40 years + old,
so I cannot expect the same quality as LPs bought recemtly.
Anyway, I still keep them because of nostalgia.
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guy 13,
One last comment:
Many of my LPs are 40 years + old,
so I cannot expect the same quality as LPs bought recemtly.
I have LPs from the '50's, '60's and newer. If you assemble a reasonably good system (you need not spend tens of thousands $$) you will definitely hear how great older LPs sound. I have some 78 rpm discs that will startle you how good they can be. A truthful system will also show you bad some new recorded LPs can be. SO fear not--hunt through the bargain bins, shop online, etc, etc. Old vinyl can be some of the best sound there is !
Cheers,
Mark
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guy 13,
I have LPs from the '50's, '60's and newer. If you assemble a reasonably good system (you need not spend tens of thousands $$) you will definitely hear how great older LPs sound. I have some 78 rpm discs that will startle you how good they can be. A truthful system will also show you bad some new recorded LPs can be. SO fear not--hunt through the bargain bins, shop online, etc, etc. Old vinyl can be some of the best sound there is !
Cheers,
Mark
Hi Mark.
Thanks for your recommendation.
Guy 13 on planet Vietnam.
Once, I went to a vinyl, Cd store and his used vinyl were all around 25 USD each.
No thanks.
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I’ve fix the problem myself, well, O.K. I guess I was lucky, but come on, give me a little credit here, I’ve worked so hard to find that simple problem, simple, now that I’ve found it and knows what it is.
Give you a little credit here? You were floundering, unable to deal with hum from an unknown source. Perhaps this helped a little?
A phono cartridge requires much more gain than other sources to amplify the signal to useable levels. That makes it susceptible to noise and especially magnetic interference. Is it possible those unshielded wires run close to the turntable motor or some transformer? Maybe you can move the wires around, or the phono and get it to stop.
The only reason I'm pointing this out is because it's exactly what I meant by "problems which they were able to work out" I think most DIY participants would have a better understanding of magnetic fields.
PDR,
Once again, sorry for not revising my post, but nowhere is the word liar used. It's also out of context and I think the greater meaning has been explained now, if not previously.
Good job Guy.
neo
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Good, glad it's fixed. Maybe we can lock this thread now. :green:
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Congratulations on your hum less audio system Guy, good job..
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Good, glad it's fixed. Maybe we can lock this thread now. :green:
Hi jtwrace.
O.K. lets wrap it and put that behind me/us.
However, let's not forget it, because that was a good experience
and could be useful one day.
Thanks all.
Guy 13