AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 28 Jun 2018, 06:29 pm
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I made this offer for free crossover design work for the month of June: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157533.0
I had quite a few people take me up on it and I really enjoyed it. I might just extend the offer for the rest of the summer. Here are a few interesting ones that I can share.
The Jordan Eikona.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/jordan%20driver.jpg)
And the popular Tang Band W8-1808.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/W8-1808.jpg)
I know some of you are thinking, filters for a full range (or wide band) driver? Yes! Almost all of them require a filter. Rarely do I ever see or hear one that doesn't need a filter to correct for a number if issues. There is no free lunch. You can't just hook a wide band driver up straight to a set of binding post and think nothing could be better than no crossover. No, they need filters. And if high quality parts are used throughout the filter can be very transparent. The problems that the filters correct are often a far greater detriment to the performance than anything a high quality filter can cause. In some cases the binding posts used are more of a detriment than the passive parts used in a filter.
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Okay the Jordan Eikona wasn't mounted in a sealed box. I was real excited about the way it was mounted, but it didn't have any effect on the response.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/Jordan%20driver.jpg)
Here is the on axis response. It has a couple of peaked areas and the drop off below 700Hz is mostly baffle step loss. The top half of the top octave drops like a rock too.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/J%20on%20axis%20response.jpg)
Here is the off axis response. It looses off axis response pretty quickly and predictably for a driver of its size.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/J%20off%20axis%20response.jpg)
The spectral decay shows some issues in that first humped up area.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/J%20csd.jpg)
So here it is after a correction filter. It is now much more balanced.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/J%20new%20response.jpg)
And by dropping the peaked area in the 700 to 1kHz range the stored energy there is much less offensive.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/J%20new%20csd.jpg)
Here is a before and after response.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/J%20response%20comparison%20with%20filter.jpg)
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Okay and now for the Tang Band W8-1808 driver.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/w8-1808.jpg)
The TB driver has a pretty aggressive rising response. This is one of those drivers that will sound pretty hot, and may reach fatigue levels pretty quickly. And it is compounded by the step loss below 500Hz.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/TB%20on%20axis%20response.jpg)
This is a pretty large diameter driver so it looses off axis response pretty quickly. You'll need to be parked in front of these with them aimed right at you or you'll loose the top end quickly.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/TB%20off%20axis%20response.jpg)
The spectral decay shows a little bit of stored energy across the board in all areas but no big issues anywhere. I had to raise it up 5db on the scale to get a good look at it down low, so the top end blew off the scale.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/TB%20CSD%202.jpg)
The impedance curve shows a resonance bump right at 900Hz. There is also a corresponding peak in the response right at that point. And there is a little stored energy in seen in the spectral decay in that area as well.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/TB%20impedance.jpg)
But check out the response with a correction filter. This is incredibly smooth. I left the top end up just a hair because these things drop off so sharply in the off axis. So the listen can play with towing them out a few degrees to get the top end response they want.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/TB%20new%20response%20with%20filter.jpg)
And the spectral decay with the filter. Nothing to get too excited about there, but not bad either.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/TB%20new%20csd.jpg)
Here's a before and after for comparison. This will be a lot easier to listen to.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/TB%20new%20response%20comparison.jpg)
Nice driver!
The huge drop off in the off axis could be supplemented by a rear mounted or up firing tweeter to add back some of the lost spacial ques to the room response. That will improve the imaging and sound stage layering a bit.
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Interesting Danny!
I use a 5 inch TB driver (W5-2143) in a 0.2 sealed box these days as a DIY adventure. Supported by biamped woofers in ported boxes that act as the stands for TB's.
It appears the trade off for balanced frequency response is lower efficiency. Fair trade I'd say.
How complex are the filters? Not asking for the recipe, just a comment on number of components?
Thanks. :thumb:
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Necely done :thumb:
Will be cool if the owner's post some impressions after they get them back and do some listening
jay
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Interesting Danny!
I use a 5 inch TB driver (W5-2143) in a 0.2 sealed box these days as a DIY adventure. Supported by biamped woofers in ported boxes that act as the stands for TB's.
It appears the trade off for balanced frequency response is lower efficiency. Fair trade I'd say.
How complex are the filters? Not asking for the recipe, just a comment on number of components?
Thanks. :thumb:
That driver has a little bit of a rising response as well, and with a cabinet that small you'll have some baffle step loss that will equate to a 5 or 6db drop that will start close to 900Hz. You could have a 10db spread or more from bottom to top. So some correction would help a lot. Looks like a couple of resonance issues in the impedance curve, but it is hard to say how much they are effecting the response without looking at a spectral decay.
Send it to me and I'll design it for you for free if you buy the parts from us. Shipping cost would be pretty low too for a small one like that.
Number of parts varies depending on the response and if there are response peaks or resonance issues to deal with.
The filter used in our LGK 1.0 kit is just three parts. http://gr-research.com/lgk10kit.aspx
The TB W8-1808 needed six parts.
The Jordan also needed six parts.
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Interesting. Would the filters depend on what sort enclosure you have the driver in?
I have the Eikona 2 drivers and was planning to put them in a MLTL enclosure. Would the filters still work, or would there need to be some tweaking done.
Were those the Eikona 1 drivers that you tested?
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Danny,
Given that the W8 1808 is made to work on open baffle, what about the V2 Bass section, plus W8 1808, plus the Neo3 all in open baffle? I almost contacted you about doing this build...
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Interesting. Would the filters depend on what sort enclosure you have the driver in?
I have the Eikona 2 drivers and was planning to put them in a MLTL enclosure. Would the filters still work, or would there need to be some tweaking done.
Were those the Eikona 1 drivers that you tested?
Change the baffle size and shape and the values needed for the compensation filter also change.
I am not sure about the model of the driver.
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Danny,
Given that the W8 1808 is made to work on open baffle, what about the V2 Bass section, plus W8 1808, plus the Neo3 all in open baffle? I almost contacted you about doing this build...
If you are going to use a Neo 3 with it then you'll want to let the Neo 3 do what it does best and let it play down low. But then if you are going to let the Neo 3 play down low then no need for a wide band driver to mate it with. A M165NQ would be a better choice.
But if someone wanted to add a couple of the 12" woofers used in the V2 with the TB driver then I have plenty of those 12's left in stock. That would be a good combo. http://gr-research.com/v-2.aspx
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Danny,
Given that the W8 1808 is made to work on open baffle, what about the V2 Bass section, plus W8 1808, plus the Neo3 all in open baffle? I almost contacted you about doing this build...
I have always liked the driver but it does weird things at higher volumes and at the top end. I have worked with it in many forms and I NEVER can get it to sound right no matter the application when comparing it to a neo3 combination. You IMO are better off just going straight to a Neo 3 combination with one of GR's applications. I have failed many times and know the pitfalls of this driver. A similar driver in the PE Dayton 208 PS has similar issues as it breaks up in the upper range easily and is hard to listen to.
As for the older V2 use of the Eminence Acoustinatior N2012 8 ohm drivers, I can say that I just recently helped a friend with a pair of Super V tops and since he was short on money, we put in four N2012 drivers in the bottoms. Are they servo NO, same NO, but for his application and about 250 watts of power per side, they sound really good. If someone was looking for a poor mans version, this would work well, as they did in the V2, just not angled in the Super V. I think Danny had said previously that he has a good set of these in stock and selling for 75 dollars per woofer. Would be easy to look at or call him.
JP
I have made every incarnation of the 1808 and never gotten it to work above avg.
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I have always liked the driver but it does weird things at higher volumes and at the top end. I have worked with it in many forms and I NEVER can get it to sound right no matter the application when comparing it to a neo3 combination. You IMO are better off just going straight to a Neo 3 combination with one of GR's applications. I have failed many times and know the pitfalls of this driver. A similar driver in the PE Dayton 208 PS has similar issues as it breaks up in the upper range easily and is hard to listen to.
As for the older V2 use of the Eminence Acoustinatior N2012 8 ohm drivers, I can say that I just recently helped a friend with a pair of Super V tops and since he was short on money, we put in four N2012 drivers in the bottoms. Are they servo NO, same NO, but for his application and about 250 watts of power per side, they sound really good. If someone was looking for a poor mans version, this would work well, as they did in the V2, just not angled in the Super V. I think Danny had said previously that he has a good set of these in stock and selling for 75 dollars per woofer. Would be easy to look at or call him.
JP
I have made every incarnation of the 1808 and never gotten it to work above avg.
What about using the 1808 with a Neo 3? I find many "full range" drivers work exceptionally well when used as "midrange only" drivers.
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Wow good thing I didn’t waste time on that idea!!!! I’ve also decided to go Hypex Fusion 253, so I’m now really far from where I grew up RS750 DR redo and Neo 3 towers.
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Wow good thing I didn’t waste time on that idea!!!!
HT OZ. you can go back and look at all my failures with in AC. Just use my user name.
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I’m leaning into the SB Accoustics camp, but had an itch. I trust you and have seen you posting for what 10 years now...
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What about using the 1808 with a Neo 3? I find many "full range" drivers work exceptionally well when used as "midrange only" drivers.
Tyson
You are right. I just don't want to pay 200 per 1808 driver when economically and most likely performance wise I could use a M165NQ driver or similar. I agree that that driver sounds good to my ears until the top end, but also, it is expensive on all parts.
I love the simplicity of FR drivers and what they offer, but for the last 12 years I keep going back to the Neo 3 and an accomplice driver. Rich Hollis is doing some interesting things and only if you could match with a good passive xo the Neo 3 and Neo 10 or 8. I think someone with spend some time on it and I do believe that it is currently making its rounds and will get to the public soon. It would be half of the Super 7 upper, and with flat packs, will be a great top end. Inexpensive for the most part too
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I’m leaning into the SB Accoustics camp, but had an itch. I trust you and have seen you posting for what 10 years now...
Either way, the Neo 3 or its equal is the way to start at the top. We all have personal perf, cost objectives and significant others to deal with. Or kids who smash your tube amps and think they can just vacuum it up and it will still work with wires hanging out of it. Hey, lets plug that in and see what happens. Smoke fire...death.. Oh, sorry, I have digressed in to berating my children... Errrrrrr
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Either way, the Neo 3 or its equal is the way to start at the top. We all have personal perf, cost objectives and significant others to deal with. Or kids who smash your tube amps and think they can just vacuum it up and it will still work with wires hanging out of it. Hey, lets plug that in and see what happens. Smoke fire...death.. Oh, sorry, I have digressed in to berating my children... Errrrrrr
Wow never had that happen but had to put all my stuff up for a few years and focus on work and young kids. For the next year I’m living in India without my family so it’s full on audio hobby to pass the time. Music helps keep my sanity and I’ll learn as much as I can. I’d take broken amp and kids vs leaving them in US and working abroad, even with lots of audio time.
I love the super 7 idea but jeeze it gets expensive for just the drivers. My uper limit for drivers is about $1,500. Fusion covers six channels of Ncore amp, dsp and dac for $1k.
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Either way, the Neo 3 or its equal is the way to start at the top. We all have personal perf, cost objectives and significant others to deal with. Or kids who smash your tube amps and think they can just vacuum it up and it will still work with wires hanging out of it. Hey, lets plug that in and see what happens. Smoke fire...death.. Oh, sorry, I have digressed in to berating my children... Errrrrrr
They can also do nasty things to turntables. One time I went to play a record and when I touched the turntable it literally fell apart. Turned out my son thought he would play a record (or just check out the turntable, who knows) and knocked it off the stand. When it hit the floor it self-disassembled. He carefully picked up all the pieces, put them back on the rack then left the room as if nothing happened.
I wasn't too happy about that. Then my parents reminded me of the time I was banished from my father's workshop for taking is watch apart to see how it worked :dunno:
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Danny we high jacked your thread. What would you do to solve this problem?
Wide band driver, with support at top and bottom? No crossover in the critical regions with good phase coherence? Perhaps V2 bass as all agree it works and is economical.
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Danny we high jacked your thread. What would you do to solve this problem?
Wide band driver, with support at top and bottom? No crossover in the critical regions with good phase coherence? Perhaps V2 bass as all agree it works and is economical.
This is going to be a bit of a complex answer.
Here is the way I look it speaker design. It really is about speed. Speed can mean two things. It can mean how fast a driver returns to rest or how fast it can move.
How fast a driver returns to rest is what people are referring to when they say the bass is fast. This can be achieved several ways. Multiple smaller drivers can be used like in a line source or an array like the NX-Treme. With many drivers handling the lower end they each move less so there is less inertia or stored energy to deal with. And smaller drivers means less moving mass. Less moving mass can also speed settling times up. And then for really low end duty there is servo control. :thumb:
Speed can also refer to how fast a driver can react or track an input signal. If you want to know how fast a driver is just look at how high it will play. If it will react fast enough to play the shorter wavelengths in the top octave then that's pretty fast. If it is not fast enough it simply won't play up very high.
Now I said all of that to get to another point.
Longer wavelengths (low bass) requires more surface area and longer exertions to maintain SPL levels down there. If a single driver is having to do everything (meaning play from 20Hz to 20kHz) then it is having to handle long exertions and everything else all at the same time. Imagine a driver having to handle the top octave while at the same time the cone movement is being dominated by the first two octaves. It becomes a compromise of everything. And the longer exertions mean longer settling times. So speed is hard to maintain down low.
The solution of coarse is to limit the lower end that the driver has to cover. If you just remove the first octave then you have relieved it of about half of the demand on it. Move up one more octave to 80Hz and now you are really taking a load off. The driver can now much more effectively handle everything else.
The upper end of the sweet spot tends to be just below 200Hz. If you take that part off of a driver then you have taken over 80 to 90 percent of the exertion requirements away from it. And along with that a lot of potential stored energy is gone. Setting times are much faster and cleaner and they can more effectively play everything else.
Now take that same line of thought and move it up the scale. Tweeters are much lighter and faster. They have a lot less moving mass as well. Smaller diameter also means better dispersion and off axis response.
No matter how great a full range driver really is it will still get clobbered by a good tweeter in the upper ranges.
So let the tweeter do what it can do. And the lower the tweeter can play the more speed you bring into the lower frequency ranges. This is why I like lower tweeter crossover points. And a Neo 3 in a waveguide crossing as low as 1.3kHz is hard to touch. Now the mid-bass driver doesn't have to be as fast.
And the real range to avoid a crossover is the mid-range. The heart of it is in the 300Hz to 500Hz region. I like to stay below 200Hz and just above 1kHz ideally.
Again it is all about speed and you can see it in the spectral decay.
And yes, drivers like the Neo 3 and Neo 10 are super fast. There' s nothing like them. The Wedgie design using four 3" LGK drivers and the Neo 3 is also super fast. The NX-Otica and NX-Treme models use the M165NQ drivers as mid-bass drivers and don't give up much speed in exchange for a little more body. All of those are favorites of mine.
So as for full range drivers. Some are really good. The LGK's are great as they are small (3" driver) and fast with decent off axis response for a full range driver due to its small size. The compromise is a limited SPL.
The TB has an incredibly smooth response after the filter. But again there are compromises. Off axis response is of coarse very limited. It can play up so high because of the smaller wizzer cone. The main cone is too heavy and damps out the upper ranges. If you had them already in use and wanted to take them up a notch then you could do so by properly implementing a rear firing or upward firing tweeter as a super tweeter. But if adding a tweeter you might as well configure a real crossover and let the tweeter do what it does best. Going at it from the beginning to add a tweeter would have me going for a better mid-bass driver.
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Would the 12" Eminence woofers work in the same H-frame as the 12" servos? $300 for 4 woofers is a lot more achievable than the $1500 for the servo woofers and amps, since I already have an amp that should work for the woofers and am already using DSP. How close do they get to the servos in the H-frames? Can they do 20-200 Hz like the servo amps?
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Would the 12" Eminence woofers work in the same H-frame as the 12" servos? $300 for 4 woofers is a lot more achievable than the $1500 for the servo woofers and amps, since I already have an amp that should work for the woofers and am already using DSP. How close do they get to the servos in the H-frames? Can they do 20-200 Hz like the servo amps?
WC. This is what I just did for a friend and it works perfect. See my above post.
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JP,
Because you just did this, and have done both to know for sure, are the driver hole cutouts and bolt spacing the same between the Eminence drivers and the servos? If so, it might make an even more attractive path for folks to get in on the action - get set up with the Eminence package now to meet the current budget and the servos become a bolt-in upgrade later if someone wants to go all in? This would also mean that folks could go with Jay and Don's flat packs if they don't have access to the woodworking stuff with the Eminence drivers.
(Aside, nice to know you are still (back?) into the speaker building hobby!)
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The Eminence woofers and the servo subs fit the same 11" through hole. The screw holes might be a little off, but they can always be rotated to a new set of screw holes.
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This is going to be a bit of a complex answer.
Here is the way I look it speaker design. It really is about speed. Speed can mean two things. It can mean how fast a driver returns to rest or how fast it can move.
How fast a driver returns to rest is what people are referring to when they say the bass is fast. This can be achieved several ways. Multiple smaller drivers can be used like in a line source or an array like the NX-Treme. With many drivers handling the lower end they each move less so there is less inertia or stored energy to deal with. And smaller drivers means less moving mass. Less moving mass can also speed settling times up. And then for really low end duty there is servo control. :thumb:
Speed can also refer to how fast a driver can react or track an input signal. If you want to know how fast a driver is just look at how high it will play. If it will react fast enough to play the shorter wavelengths in the top octave then that's pretty fast. If it is not fast enough it simply won't play up very high.
Now I said all of that to get to another point.
Longer wavelengths (low bass) requires more surface area and longer exertions to maintain SPL levels down there. If a single driver is having to do everything (meaning play from 20Hz to 20kHz) then it is having to handle long exertions and everything else all at the same time. Imagine a driver having to handle the top octave while at the same time the cone movement is being dominated by the first two octaves. It becomes a compromise of everything. And the longer exertions mean longer settling times. So speed is hard to maintain down low.
The solution of coarse is to limit the lower end that the driver has to cover. If you just remove the first octave then you have relieved it of about half of the demand on it. Move up one more octave to 80Hz and now you are really taking a load off. The driver can now much more effectively handle everything else.
The upper end of the sweet spot tends to be just below 200Hz. If you take that part off of a driver then you have taken over 80 to 90 percent of the exertion requirements away from it. And along with that a lot of potential stored energy is gone. Setting times are much faster and cleaner and they can more effectively play everything else.
Now take that same line of thought and move it up the scale. Tweeters are much lighter and faster. They have a lot less moving mass as well. Smaller diameter also means better dispersion and off axis response.
No matter how great a full range driver really is it will still get clobbered by a good tweeter in the upper ranges.
So let the tweeter do what it can do. And the lower the tweeter can play the more speed you bring into the lower frequency ranges. This is why I like lower tweeter crossover points. And a Neo 3 in a waveguide crossing as low as 1.3kHz is hard to touch. Now the mid-bass driver doesn't have to be as fast.
And the real range to avoid a crossover is the mid-range. The heart of it is in the 300Hz to 500Hz region. I like to stay below 200Hz and just above 1kHz ideally.
Again it is all about speed and you can see it in the spectral decay.
And yes, drivers like the Neo 3 and Neo 10 are super fast. There' s nothing like them. The Wedgie design using four 3" LGK drivers and the Neo 3 is also super fast. The NX-Otica and NX-Treme models use the M165NQ drivers as mid-bass drivers and don't give up much speed in exchange for a little more body. All of those are favorites of mine.
So as for full range drivers. Some are really good. The LGK's are great as they are small (3" driver) and fast with decent off axis response for a full range driver due to its small size. The compromise is a limited SPL.
The TB has an incredibly smooth response after the filter. But again there are compromises. Off axis response is of coarse very limited. It can play up so high because of the smaller wizzer cone. The main cone is too heavy and damps out the upper ranges. If you had them already in use and wanted to take them up a notch then you could do so by properly implementing a rear firing or upward firing tweeter as a super tweeter. But if adding a tweeter you might as well configure a real crossover and let the tweeter do what it does best. Going at it from the beginning to add a tweeter would have me going for a better mid-bass driver.
Bolded the part about the Neo10 and Neo3. Yes, this is true. Especially when used together. There's a "seamless" quality to the sound that just cannot be matched by drivers that have different shapes or that use different materials in construction. It's like the Martin Logan electrostatics, but with way better soundstage, dynamics and detail. Of course I'm speaking from my own experience with the Super 7s, where 4 Neo 10s are used per side.
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Yes it’s $1,700 for the BG Drivers. I understand it’s great speaker but the steep price of admission keeps many people away. What about T MM WW instead of MM T MM WW, especially for those of us who are going active?
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Yes it’s $1,700 for the BG Drivers. I understand it’s great speaker but the steep price of admission keeps many people away. What about T MM WW instead of MM T MM WW, especially for those of us who are going active?
Here is a link to just about exactly what you're looking for:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152039.msg1690550#msg1690550 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152039.msg1690550#msg1690550)
(the latest news from a thread right now two below this one in the GR circle - talked about passive by Danny and active by Rich)
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I spent little over a week listening to these speakers...
I can say It’s better with the crossover. I like the pace better, the speakers are more coherent and the high is more relax and easier to listen to.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183227)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183225)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183231)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183233)
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That's a pretty cool paint job on the TB drivers model.
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Morakot,
How do you like the Eikonas?
I have some Eikona 2s that I was going to try in a MLTL cabinet, but I now I was thinking of using it in an open baffle over a pair of 12” eminence woofers in H-Frames. If I like the open baffle presentation I can easily upgrade to the 12” servos subs. If I don’t like OB I can always put the Eikona 2 in a MLTL enclosure and use it in my home theater. I was looking for a not overly expensive way to try out OB to see if I like it like so many of you do.
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Regarding to what you do I would consider the filters.
My Eikona needs the filters more then the Tang band to sound good.
I like my Eikons it lacks bass and bloom. They sound like a very good mini monitor.
Seem like you want to build the open baffle with H-frame. I think that's the way to go.
It needs help with the bass. Even with MLTL there's so much air 5.5” Eikona can push out.
The Eikona is very good and worth the time and effort.
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I was going to start out using DSP so I should be able to add some filters digitally along with applying crossovers for the drivers. I am looking forward to hearing the Eikonas in a speaker soon.
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Danny, have you ever heard or measured the Mark Audio drivers? I had the Alpair12's in SuperPensil12 cabinets before and really enjoyed their involving nature. I'd be curious how the newer Generation 3 drivers measure and what could be done with them. They seem to be the cream of the (non-exotic) crop of full range drivers.
Scott
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Danny, have you ever heard or measured the Mark Audio drivers? I had the Alpair12's in SuperPensil12 cabinets before and really enjoyed their involving nature. I'd be curious how the newer Generation 3 drivers measure and what could be done with them. They seem to be the cream of the (non-exotic) crop of full range drivers.
Scott
I have had some of those sent to me as well. Someone sent me a popular model in a TL design cabinet with little dots painting on the cone.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/markaudio.jpg)
They measured pretty rough and had a lot of break up and ringing. This was the on axis response.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/mark%20audio%20on%20axis%20response.jpg)
And the spectral decay.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/mark%20audio%20csd.jpg)
I designed a filter for it to take care of those peaks.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/mark%20audio%20response%20with%20network.jpg)
I can reduce output in the range with the break up and ringing, but can't fix it. it's still there and it was pretty rough.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/mark%20audio%20csd%20with%20network.jpg)
I didn't think how it sounded was in the ballpark with other full range drivers that I have tested.
I haven't measured or tested the Alpair 12 but did find a manufactures response for it. It looks pretty choppy. That scale is a 20db scale so those peaks and dips are 8db or more.
(https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/images/products/alpair12p-resp.jpg)
The real key is to see what the the spectral decay looks like. But they don't post those.
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Danny, those look like some of the very old CHR series of drivers which are the most inexpensive ones. I'd be curious how the newer Alpair10.3 and 7.3 drivers measure on a 5db scale! The 5db measurement you took sure doesn't look good!
Is the picture next to a LGK? How did the sound compared to each other?
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Danny, those look like some of the very old CHR series of drivers which are the most inexpensive ones. I'd be curious how the newer Alpair10.3 and 7.3 drivers measure on a 5db scale! The 5db measurement you took sure doesn't look good!
Send them to me. I measure and test them for free.
Is the picture next to a LGK? How did the sound compared to each other?
Yes. No comparison. The LGK is smooth, relaxed, and natural sounding, with really good detail. No stored energy or break up either. They are really light weight and settle really fast. See the spectral decay.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/LGK%20csd%20final%20ported%20with%20plug.jpg)
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Send them to me. I measure and test them for free.
Yes. No comparison. The LGK is smooth, relaxed, and natural sounding, with really good detail. No stored energy or break up either. They are really light weight and settle really fast. See the spectral decay.
I don't currently have any on hand but was thinking of picking up a pair and building the Frugel Horn XL for fun (if I can find a local resource to build the cabinets). If I do, I'll send them your way!
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I made this offer for free crossover design work for the month of June: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157533.0
I had quite a few people take me up on it and I really enjoyed it. I might just extend the offer for the rest of the summer. Here are a few interesting ones that I can share.
The Jordan Eikona.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/jordan%20driver.jpg)
And the popular Tang Band W8-1808.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/W8-1808.jpg)
I know some of you are thinking, filters for a full range (or wide band) driver? Yes! Almost all of them require a filter. Rarely do I ever see or hear one that doesn't need a filter to correct for a number if issues. There is no free lunch. You can't just hook a wide band driver up straight to a set of binding post and think nothing could be better than no crossover. No, they need filters. And if high quality parts are used throughout the filter can be very transparent. The problems that the filters correct are often a far greater detriment to the performance than anything a high quality filter can cause. In some cases the binding posts used are more of a detriment than the passive parts used in a filter.
Hi Danny.
Could you send me a PM with a price for components and shipping to Denmark for the Tang Band w8-1808?
Think it could be a good upgrade for my OB’s.
BR
Alex
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Hi Danny.
Could you send me a PM with a price for components and shipping to Denmark for the Tang Band w8-1808?
Think it could be a good upgrade for my OB’s.
BR
Alex
I got your message and I'll e-mail you some information.