[tglove]

Hi Everyone, just wanted to introduce myself here as I'm new to Audiocircle.

From what I've been reading, looks like I'm in the right place for OB goodness

Here's my current lineup and hoping to switch out the LRS for either a Spatial M3 or M4.  If anyone has one I'm definitely interested, please do PM me.

Any other folks here move from LRS to Spatial?

Currently i'm running:

Naim Uniti Atom / Technics SL1200 mkII turntable / Roon Nucleus+
Bryston SP1.7 pre/pro
McCormack DNA HT3 power amp
Magnepan LRS
Rel T5x subwoofer

[musicdre]

liking the variety in your system: naim and technics etc.  welcome~!

[Daryl Zero]

I started with the LRS then quickly went to the .7s and then to the Spatial Audio Lab X5s. Partly because of luck of having some local sales of my equipment and buying equipment and partly because I found the LRS to be like a gateway drug. I loved the sound but wanted more. I find the OpenBaffle speakers give you a lot of the transparency that the Maggies had along with the dynamics that the Maggies don't have. I also found that by improving the equipment, I could get the midrange that the Maggies had as well.
My migration as described above occurred in about a year. A lot of luck in buying and selling. Now I am a slave to the X5s.

[tglove]

This is perfect thank you. Did you ever try the M3 or M4 triode master?  This is all I can afford at this time sadly 😭

I started with the LRS then quickly went to the .7s and then to the Spatial Audio Lab X5s. Partly because of luck of having some local sales of my equipment and buying equipment and partly because I found the LRS to be like a gateway drug. I loved the sound but wanted more. I find the OpenBaffle speakers give you a lot of the transparency that the Maggies had along with the dynamics that the Maggies don't have. I also found that by improving the equipment, I could get the midrange that the Maggies had as well.
My migration as described above occurred in about a year. A lot of luck in buying and selling. Now I am a slave to the X5s.

[Daryl Zero]

This is perfect thank you. Did you ever try the M3 or M4 triode master?  This is all I can afford at this time sadly 😭

I've bought everything used. I was slavishly looking at forums when I saw the topic of open baffle speakers come up. First there were European models and then some references to Spatial Audio Labs. You'll find that those who own these speakers, whatever model, are very loyal and outspoken about how much they love these speakers. As poster Tyson has posted a few times, the speakers do really well in lots of types of rooms. Heck, mine are in my current office and all I did was plop them down in some place and I've never tried to fine tune their location as I don't have the room to do it in and yet they sound better than any other speaker I've heard. That is despite a half-wall between my distant listening location and the speakers, a bunch of shelves behind the speakers with my files and a concrete floor with a few throw rugs.

I never tried any other model because I live in Tucson, Arizona where boutique audio stores are basically gone and there was little or no opportunity to hear anything. There was a YouTuber, Brent LeVasseur, who had X5s and posted several video samples of the X5s playing (he still has some videos up). Even though these videos are on YouTube and are being played back through my crappy computer speakers, I still felt the magic.

So I slobbered over the X5s and around then (or shortly before) discovered USAudioMart and someone was selling fairly new X5s about 130 miles away at a great price. I took a trip up and listened and bought. Again, mostly luck. I got the speakers for a significant discount from new and, to me, they are my endgame speakers.

I'm not one to buy $10,000 speakers or $12,000 DACs. I try to buy used and see if I can get the most out of what I can get.

One thing I will say, is that the speakers demand good equipment and, by saying previously that I am a slave to them, I mean that they give you so much when you add good stuff so they actually have made me spend more money on good equipment.

If you don't have a bunch of money to spend on stuff, stick with your LRS speakers. They are great. What I do is save money here and there and put it aside so I can strike if something comes up that I can afford.

As to the different models, there is some taste issues involved. The "M" models are totally passive and you need to drive the bass speakers with the amp equipment you have. What I really loved about the X5s is the active woofer which made the speakers really easy to drive meaning I could discover the world of tube amps including very low powered SET amps. With the Maggies, I was just looking for big clean solid state power. With the X5s, I could experiment and find shades of what I liked. Sometimes, it took me a while to figure that out but the journey is almost as good as the end result.

Finally, you've come to the right place to ask these questions. I am not a very experienced audio lover in terms of equipment. I have some knowledge of how things are supposed to sound because I played in a few amateur rock bands and I did some recording of music (home stuff) so I have some knowledge of mixing and trying to get things to sound certain ways. The posters here are generous with their knowledge and help.   

[VinceT]

Not sure about your budget, but this seller knows his stuff

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=184027.msg1931558#new

[tglove]

Thank you but my budget is definitely lower around $2k or below which is why I mentioned the older M4 (TS or TM) model which I think fits in that price range.

I'll probably be lusting after the X3 model now for a while but there's just no way I could do that without initiating divorce proceedings (plus she doesn't like red or white so black is my only option haha)!!!

Not sure about your budget, but this seller knows his stuff

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=184027.msg1931558#new

[tglove]

Thank you, Daryl, for taking the time to write about your experience.  I know this is a slippery slope in terms of spending $$$, I have enjoyed my time with LRS but for electric guitar, I just find I'm lacking way too much dynamism.  Someone recommended to me Klipsch Heresy or anothe speaker in their lineup for their horn based mids and highs. Maybe that's worth looking at but for the money, I think an older Spatial should do the trick just fine

I've bought everything used. I was slavishly looking at forums when I saw the topic of open baffle speakers come up. First there were European models and then some references to Spatial Audio Labs. You'll find that those who own these speakers, whatever model, are very loyal and outspoken about how much they love these speakers. As poster Tyson has posted a few times, the speakers do really well in lots of types of rooms. Heck, mine are in my current office and all I did was plop them down in some place and I've never tried to fine tune their location as I don't have the room to do it in and yet they sound better than any other speaker I've heard. That is despite a half-wall between my distant listening location and the speakers, a bunch of shelves behind the speakers with my files and a concrete floor with a few throw rugs.

I never tried any other model because I live in Tucson, Arizona where boutique audio stores are basically gone and there was little or no opportunity to hear anything. There was a YouTuber, Brent LeVasseur, who had X5s and posted several video samples of the X5s playing (he still has some videos up). Even though these videos are on YouTube and are being played back through my crappy computer speakers, I still felt the magic.

So I slobbered over the X5s and around then (or shortly before) discovered USAudioMart and someone was selling fairly new X5s about 130 miles away at a great price. I took a trip up and listened and bought. Again, mostly luck. I got the speakers for a significant discount from new and, to me, they are my endgame speakers.

I'm not one to buy $10,000 speakers or $12,000 DACs. I try to buy used and see if I can get the most out of what I can get.

One thing I will say, is that the speakers demand good equipment and, by saying previously that I am a slave to them, I mean that they give you so much when you add good stuff so they actually have made me spend more money on good equipment.

If you don't have a bunch of money to spend on stuff, stick with your LRS speakers. They are great. What I do is save money here and there and put it aside so I can strike if something comes up that I can afford.

As to the different models, there is some taste issues involved. The "M" models are totally passive and you need to drive the bass speakers with the amp equipment you have. What I really loved about the X5s is the active woofer which made the speakers really easy to drive meaning I could discover the world of tube amps including very low powered SET amps. With the Maggies, I was just looking for big clean solid state power. With the X5s, I could experiment and find shades of what I liked. Sometimes, it took me a while to figure that out but the journey is almost as good as the end result.

Finally, you've come to the right place to ask these questions. I am not a very experienced audio lover in terms of equipment. I have some knowledge of how things are supposed to sound because I played in a few amateur rock bands and I did some recording of music (home stuff) so I have some knowledge of mixing and trying to get things to sound certain ways. The posters here are generous with their knowledge and help.

[morganc]

I’ve owned the old TM and it’s a good speaker and have had the X5 and now I own the  X3. I don’t think the TM is the best in class for $2000-2500 used is my honest opinion.  If you can save up for any of the Current M Series, even the lowest and oldest one, it’s a massive upgrade over the TM and you will have a world class speaker with any front end. With the old TM I could not quite get it to where I wanted it with a much more expensive front end. Just my $.02.

[tglove]

Thanks for your insight. What's the oldest M series you're referring to? Is it the M3/M4 Sapphire?  What aspect of the TM could you not dial in?

I’ve owned the old TM and it’s a good speaker and have had the X5 and now I own the  X3. I don’t think the TM is the best in class for $2000-2500 used is my honest opinion.  If you can save up for any of the Current M Series, even the lowest and oldest one, it’s a massive upgrade over the TM and you will have a world class speaker with any front end. With the old TM I could not quite get it to where I wanted it with a much more expensive front end. Just my $.02.

[Tangram]

Hi Everyone, just wanted to introduce myself here as I'm new to Audiocircle.

From what I've been reading, looks like I'm in the right place for OB goodness

Here's my current lineup and hoping to switch out the LRS for either a Spatial M3 or M4.  If anyone has one I'm definitely interested, please do PM me.

Any other folks here move from LRS to Spatial?

Currently i'm running:

Naim Uniti Atom / Technics SL1200 mkII turntable / Roon Nucleus+
Bryston SP1.7 pre/pro
McCormack DNA HT3 power amp
Magnepan LRS
Rel T5x subwoofer

Hey tglove,

I am one of those guys who got hooked on dipoles with the LRS, then moved to Spatials, in my case M3 Sapphires. Dipoles work better than box speakers in my room, so the LRS's were a revelation. I ran them with a pair of SVS SB2000 Pros and used a big Parasound A21 amp. The imaging was just out of this world and they didn't excite the room at all. With the subs, they were full range and sounded very, very good.

But I really wanted to use my Pass Labs XA30.5, which is underpowered for the LRSs. Plus I yearned for a more dynamic presentation and liked the idea of getting rid of subs altogether. The M3 Sapphires ticked all the boxes. It took me a while to get the room and the speakers dialled in, but I am now in audio nirvana. Plus, a big surprise to me is that the LRS treble is nowhere near as refined as on the M3Ss. Until I heard the M3s, I thought the LRS treble was sublime.

[Mr. Big]

Hey tglove,

I am one of those guys who got hooked on dipoles with the LRS, then moved to Spatials, in my case M3 Sapphires. Dipoles work better than box speakers in my room, so the LRS's were a revelation. I ran them with a pair of SVS SB2000 Pros and used a big Parasound A21 amp. The imaging was just out of this world and they didn't excite the room at all. With the subs, they were full range and sounded very, very good.

But I really wanted to use my Pass Labs XA30.5, which is underpowered for the LRSs. Plus I yearned for a more dynamic presentation and liked the idea of getting rid of subs altogether. The M3 Sapphires ticked all the boxes. It took me a while to get the room and the speakers dialed in, but I am now in audio nirvana. Plus, a big surprise to me is that the LRS treble is nowhere near as refined as on the M3Ss. Until I heard the M3s, I thought the LRS treble was sublime.

Spot on! the M3s can be sublime with care in setup and room acoustics. They can sound as warm as 1950's recordings or as edgy and bright as newer pop recordings and with all the processing that goes into them, they tell the truth of what you feed them.

[Tarheel]

[/img]I had the  Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S for awhile and really liked them.  Later bought the Sapphire M4 since I have a smallish room 14x14x18.  That was the speaker Clayton recommended.

I sold the Turbos to a young guy in Raleigh who drove down....auditioned then and took them home for $1600.  He got a deal as they were minty.

I would love to A-B the two pairs.  I paid $1900 for the Turbos and $5000 for the Sapphires with Sapele baffles.  Don't know if I hear $3000 difference in sound.

Good luck with your search. 

[catluck]

Tglove - FWIW, I've owned M1's, a specially made uber-quality platform of SA's earlier models. The M1 sold for a very short time (2x15" woofers). They used the same drivers as the M3's & M4's but had a much more developed and sophisticated chassis and were the most expensive of the M series.  I did all the compression horn/x-over upgrades offered over the years (M27, M35 horn drivers plus x-over).  While I loved the midrange on these speaks (they presented horns in particular like no other), and they kept me entertained for about 3 years, they were substantially lacking in upper-frequency detail/air and their bass was limp, lumpy, and weak.  But they coupled with the room crazy good.  While you may find yourself sincerely enjoying them, they are nothing like the Sapphires. The Sapphire tweeter is extraordinary- exceptionally detailed, rich and utterly natural.  The bass is a wholly different animal compared to the earlier models - a lion compared to a water buffalo.  If you were able to, holding out for the Sapphires could prove to be your speaker solution, once and for all.  I can't say that for the earlier models.

[tglove]

I appreciate the benefit of your experience here.

I have not heard of the M1 at all, do you have any pictures? It sounds like it was the top of the line design for some time.  I'm surprised to hear that the highs were lacking? I have not heard that feedback from M3/M4 triode master owners (yet) although I do hear that a sub may be needed for the M4. 

Fair to say then that the Sapphire doesn't have any downsides except the cost?

Tglove - FWIW, I've owned M1's, a specially made uber-quality platform of SA's earlier models. The M1 sold for a very short time (2x15" woofers). They used the same drivers as the M3's & M4's but had a much more developed and sophisticated chassis and were the most expensive of the M series.  I did all the compression horn/x-over upgrades offered over the years (M27, M35 horn drivers plus x-over).  While I loved the midrange on these speaks (they presented horns in particular like no other), and they kept me entertained for about 3 years, they were substantially lacking in upper-frequency detail/air and their bass was limp, lumpy, and weak.  But they coupled with the room crazy good.  While you may find yourself sincerely enjoying them, they are nothing like the Sapphires. The Sapphire tweeter is extraordinary- exceptionally detailed, rich and utterly natural.  The bass is a wholly different animal compared to the earlier models - a lion compared to a water buffalo.  If you were able to, holding out for the Sapphires could prove to be your speaker solution, once and for all.  I can't say that for the earlier models.

[tglove]

Lovely pic, thank you.  Please post your Sapele finish Sapphires as well

While I do enjoy going up the ladder with speakers, this is my hesitation too: the diminishing returns as we keep throwing more $$ at it.

The LRS kept me satisfied (and still do for certain genres) for more than a year, particularly with a sub.  I do hope that the Hologram series lasts me longer!!

[/img]I had the  Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S for awhile and really liked them.  Later bought the Sapphire M4 since I have a smallish room 14x14x18.  That was the speaker Clayton recommended.

I sold the Turbos to a young guy in Raleigh who drove down....auditioned then and took them home for $1600.  He got a deal as they were minty.

I would love to A-B the two pairs.  I paid $1900 for the Turbos and $5000 for the Sapphires with Sapele baffles.  Don't know if I hear $3000 difference in sound.

Good luck with your search.

[Tarheel]

[catluck]

TG -  unfortunately no pics of the M1's.  Are the Sapphires worth the additional cost? To me, overwhelmingly "yes."  But, of course, the Sapphire tweeter, the original, is apparently no longer available. I haven't heard the current Beyma tweeter iteration so I cannot comment on the current model's sound.  But, if you could locate used Sapphires, with the peerless tweeter, and let's say you pay an additional $3,000 beyond what you'd pay for an M3/M4, to my mind it's well worth it. Why? First, amortizing the additional cost over, let's say 1,500 hours of listening time (2 hours day x 2 years of ownership) results in an additional $2/hr. (and I suspect you'd own the speaks for longer than that thereby reducing the cost per hour of listening time). For me, the additional cost is utterly inconsequential when I consider the vastly improved presentation of the Sapphires to the M1's.  Consider that the Eminence bass drivers in the Sapphires cost, at the OEM level, something like an additional $100/each over the M3/M4 versions. That's a HUGE increase in cost at the OEM level and it would mean little if the bass presentation weren't substantially superior in the Sapphires but as I've argued, it IS.  Likewise, the Peerless tweeter provides far greater detail and air than the latest compression horn driver, the M35 I think. Obviously, I can't quantify the improvements and maybe others who have owned both will weigh in.  But without question, it's been worth it to me. Every second of listening to the Sapphires confirms my purchase choice.  So, what's it worth to you is the ultimate question?  Yes, a comparative audition could prove definitive but that's unlikely.  So you're kind of reliant on the anecdotal reports provided here. There is an additional resource: Clayton.  Simply ask Clayton how he feels about the M3/M4 vs the Sapphire.  I think I know his answer because I previously inquired.  Clayton's advice: buy the Sapphires. Best "buy" advice I've received,  maybe, in all the decades I've been pursuing the holy grail of musical satisfaction.

[Mr. Big]

TG -  unfortunately no pics of the M1's.  Are the Sapphires worth the additional cost? To me, overwhelmingly "yes."  But, of course, the Sapphire tweeter, the original, is apparently no longer available. I haven't heard the current Beyma tweeter iteration so I cannot comment on the current model's sound.  But, if you could locate used Sapphires, with the peerless tweeter, and let's say you pay an additional $3,000 beyond what you'd pay for an M3/M4, to my mind it's well worth it. Why? First, amortizing the additional cost over, let's say 1,500 hours of listening time (2 hours day x 2 years of ownership) results in an additional $2/hr. (and I suspect you'd own the speaks for longer than that thereby reducing the cost per hour of listening time). For me, the additional cost is utterly inconsequential when I consider the vastly improved presentation of the Sapphires to the M1's.  Consider that the Eminence bass drivers in the Sapphires cost, at the OEM level, something like an additional $100/each over the M3/M4 versions. That's a HUGE increase in cost at the OEM level and it would mean little if the bass presentation weren't substantially superior in the Sapphires but as I've argued, it IS.  Likewise, the Peerless tweeter provides far greater detail and air than the latest compression horn driver, the M35 I think. Obviously, I can't quantify the improvements and maybe others who have owned both will weigh in.  But without question, it's been worth it to me. Every second of listening to the Sapphires confirms my purchase choice.  So, what's it worth to you is the ultimate question?  Yes, a comparative audition could prove definitive but that's unlikely.  So you're kind of reliant on the anecdotal reports provided here. There is an additional resource: Clayton.  Simply ask Clayton how he feels about the M3/M4 vs the Sapphire.  I think I know his answer because I previously inquired.  Clayton's advice: buy the Sapphires. Best "buy" advice I've received,  maybe, in all the decades I've been pursuing the holy grail of musical satisfaction.

Right on! The Sapphires are superb, the thing about them is they can sound so different on any change you make; I had a set of AQ William Tell Zero in storage and inserted them due to never hearing them on my Mark Levinson amp, was. Like a different speaker, so alive and fast. yet not bright at all. My Siltech double crown impacted the speakers with more weight and bass, while the AQ had more open and more defined bass, much like cooking each allowed the speaker to have a different spice to one's ear.

[lazbisme]

I have never heard the Sapphires but am overwhelmed by the Beyma AMT tweeter in the X3, X5 and X4Ultra. To my ears it comes closer to making a piano sound like a piano than ANY speaker I have ever heard.