Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 2320 times.

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« on: 9 Jul 2021, 05:13 am »
Greetings!

This is my first post on Audio Circle, so bare with me.  You guys have been a wealth of knowledge to me concerning just about every topic on the Spatial Audio M and X Series.  I owned a pair of Paradigm Signature 6 speakers for several years and I wanted to upgrade to something different that had excellent sound and they had to look good!  I have two family members that used to own B&W Matrix Series and they currently own a pair of Wilson Watt/Puppy 8S and Sabrina’s.  So, I know the B&W and Wilson sound pretty good.  I loved them all, but I just wanted to try something different.

In early 2020, I came across a few speaker forums on AudiogoN and open baffle design (OBD) speakers were mentioned.  I had never heard or seen a pair of OBD speakers like Spatial Audio.  I had only seen Martin Logan and Magnepan OBD.  The forums mentioned Spatial Audio and Pure Audio Project (PAP).  I found the Spatial Audio and PAP websites and starting researching and  finally spoke with Clayton and also Ze’ev from PAP.  Both of them were super nice and informative, but in the end, I ordered the Spatial Audio X5S in June 2020 and took delivery of them in September 2020.

Clayton advised me not to pursue instant gratification as the human instinct is hard to control.  Of course, I didn’t listen to him and was disappointed with the sound at first.  Clayton advised me to keep playing music and allow them to break in without concern for perfect placement.  I let them play and play and they finally started to sing!  I made a big mistake that I said i would never do, which is to buy all new components and cables within a few months, which left me unable to determine which upgrade was creating the weak link or strong link in the chain.  That being said, the system is smoking, but I still don’t always get the bass slam on certain tunes that I know well and have heard the bass as it should sound.  I listen to 90% traditional jazz and they do well when these tunes are in the signal path.  But, there are a few R&B, contemporary jazz and classical tunes that cause the plate amp to start clipping with the red light flashing when the bass digs deep.  My room is definitely a problem as it is a 17’x18’ square, 2-story family room that’s open to the kitchen and hallway area, with big windows covered by wooden blinds.  The room is terrible and very live.  I had no room treatments and Clayton advised me to add room treatments, which I did and that helped a lot.  Also, I was struggling with some vocals and brass that would get shouty and in your face, so when I turned it down to an acceptable level, the rest of the instruments were too low and it caused me to avoid playing a lot of tunes that I really like. So, I recently purchased an Audioquest Niagara 3000 with several Audioquest power cables and it lowered the noise floor which created a huge improvement by removing the harshness I was hearing.  Unbelievable!  Spatial Audio is the truth and Clayton has excellent customer service!  I will be finishing my basement sometime in 2022 and I will have a dedicated listening room, 14’x22’ with 8’ ceilings and no windows.

See photos below of how my current room setup evolved.

Thanks all for sharing your experiences with the Spatial Audio OBD!
















Mr. Big

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 633
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #1 on: 9 Jul 2021, 01:41 pm »
DBT, nice post. You really have a lot of issues with the room and s story with an open floor plan so you have a lot of music bouncing around all that open space. I am glad you upgraded your power cords, I use AQ Tornados on all my gear with the William tell speaker cables and fire interconnects. I went from Quads to the Sapphires M3's. Which was a huge change, speaker wires that worked so well with Quad speakers was a no go with the M3's, Quad our electrostatics so they have a different need in speakers cables they dynamic speakers, so I purchased some Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9 and they transformed the speaker, now the speaker had weight and body without the forward highs, bass clean fast and detailed and now dynamic and deep, such so that I pulled the 2 subs I had at 1st. @nd thing was what Clayton told me, relax and let them break-in, that is hard when you're been listening to a speaker like he Quad for 10 years, and then putting a new speaker in its place and you expect it to sound great, well that was dumb of me.  For the past few months the speakers have settled in, and now daily consistent sound quality, I also learned about the speakers during those 8 months, moved them in out and wider, closer, apart, and then toe-in. Each room is different, my music room is a loft in my 2nd level which overlooks the family room below. So where I sit there is no wall behind me, just a rail. So the speaker faces no wall till 40' where the family room sidewall is.

Ideally you do not want anything between your speaker it kills imaging causes bounce off, and of course the perception of real people playing music in front of you, I only have my amp on its stand between my speakers. I put my stand there once it was a waster of an hour or so, 1st tune and got up shut the system down and removed the stand back to its old spot on the other side of the room away from the speakers, I use 5 meters XLR interconnects to run from my preamp to the amp.

Toe-in by little as 1/4" can make a big difference, so I started with the speaker tweeter crossing in front of me and then over time toed them out 1/2" at a time and when I thought I nailed it with bass, detail, and dynamics, I then moved them in 1/4" listened to see if it improved or went backward if so I returned them to where then listened again and then toed them out 1/4" and see if the sound improved, once I learned the speaker I then had a reference from experience to know when I nailed the positioning. Even my window behind the speakers with blinds the sound is different with them titled down or much better titled up a bit, then they are acting as a diffuser. I have ASR 8 x 48 panel running behind the blind dead center between the speaker and that even improves the sound imaging and depth. This tells you how much your room impacts the quality of the sound we all hear. 

I can tell you the speaker speaks the truth I have recordings where the bass shakes the room, then others where you think the woofers died, unlike box speakers where you have bass all the time, due to the room and speaker interaction issues, OB speakers do not, your hearing a much more accurate bottom end. I think when you finish your audio room and you get that setup and so acoustic panels on the walls, bass traps in the corners, 1st refection points, and then the wall behind where you sit some defusion. Carpet the floor, I think you will be so happy with your purchase. Your room is a major part of the sound of your system, so it needs love and attention also. Clap your hands in a room, and listen for echo and slap back, that how your music is from your system is sounding also.

GIK Acoustics makes great products and affordable to boot, plus they offer good support in helping you choose what will work for your style of the speaker and the room.
https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/acoustic-panels/#scroll-to-products

You got great speakers so hang in, you have not heard them at their best yet.




« Last Edit: 10 Jul 2021, 01:48 pm by Mr. Big »

g_rogers

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #2 on: 9 Jul 2021, 01:58 pm »
Your room looks awesome!
Is the X5 still missing bass slam on some tunes?

bbybaudio

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 148
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #3 on: 9 Jul 2021, 02:28 pm »
Welcome DBT. I own X5s and love the sound more than any speakers I have owned or auditioned. I notice that your room treatments behind the speakers seem to low. Clayton suggested that I have mine up on the wall to where the AMT driver is about in the middle of a 2 X 4 ft panel. Below my diffuser panels, also against the wall and directly behind the subwoofers, are GIK 2 x 2 ft bass traps. I have two more 2 X 4 ft sound diffuser panels mounted directly behind my listening area. I then cover my flatscreen when listening. Sound is fantastic and if anything I needed to dial the bass back.  Nothing shouty or out of place. 3 Dimensional presentation and horns, cymbals, triangles, guitars and vocals sound very natural. With some live tracks it is like you are at the venue.

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #4 on: 10 Jul 2021, 06:40 am »

I can tell you the speaker speaks the truth I have recordings where the bass shakes the room, then others where you think the woofers died, unlike box speakers where you have bass all the time, due to the room and speaker interaction issues, OB speakers do not, your hearing a much more accurate bottom end. I think when you finish your audio room and you get that set up and so acoustic panels on the walls, bass traps in the corners, 1st refection points, and then the wall behind where you sit some defusion. Carpet the floor, I think you will be so happy with your purchase. Your room is a major part of the sound of your system, so it needs love and attention also. Clap your hands in a room, and listen for echo and slap back, that how your music is from your system is sounding also.


Mr. Big, you are correct concerning the speakers speak the truth.  I have clearly heard unbelievable resolution, details, incredible bass and sound staging on many tunes.  Then, I listen to another tune and it’s like I’m listening to a totally different system.  I finally understand that it tends to be the recordings and my speakers are simply giving the facts.  I’m confident when I am setup in my dedicated room, the speakers will go to greater heights in fidelity.  Plus I have the huge Salamander stand in the middle of my speakers.  Not a good idea, but I don’t have the flexibility to move it around in that room.  The GIK treatments I have on the wall are the best I can do in this shared living space without my wife telling me to pack up my gear and go.  Lol…. So, I’m doing the best I can at the moment.  I’ve done the clap test, toe in/toe out, switched from AQ speaker and interconnect cables to Cardas cables, Shunyata Venom AC cables to AQ Monsoon to Blizzard and Thunder AC cables with Niagara 1200 & 3000, Benchmark DAC to Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE DAC with Intona USB isolator & Intona USB cables, PS Audio Gain Cell DAC and M700 mono blocks to PrimaLuna EVO400 preamp and EVO400 amp, and the room is clearly my biggest issue.  The speakers are sounding the best I have ever heard them in the room with all that I mentioned above, so I’m still breaking them in!

So, you replaced your AQ speaker cables for the Analysis Plus?  Lastly, where do you aim your AMT drivers; over your shoulders, directly at your ears, etc.?

Thanks for the feedback!

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #5 on: 10 Jul 2021, 07:15 am »
Your room looks awesome!
Is the X5 still missing bass slam on some tunes?

I’ve determined that I am missing some bass slam after listening to some tunes using my Sennheiser HD800 headphones.  These headphones are very accurate and don’t have a lot of bass, so they give me the facts on any tunes I play through them.  Headphones are placed directly on your ears, so they eliminate any room interaction, so they help me to determine what I should be hearing in the music when listening to my speakers.  I can’t make a final critique on my X5s at this time due to my room situation and they are still breaking in.  When I move the system to my dedicated room when it’s finished, I will be able to give a better assessment and the X5s are still breaking in.

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #6 on: 10 Jul 2021, 07:22 am »
Welcome DBT. I own X5s and love the sound more than any speakers I have owned or auditioned. I notice that your room treatments behind the speakers seem to low. Clayton suggested that I have mine up on the wall to where the AMT driver is about in the middle of a 2 X 4 ft panel. Below my diffuser panels, also against the wall and directly behind the subwoofers, are GIK 2 x 2 ft bass traps. I have two more 2 X 4 ft sound diffuser panels mounted directly behind my listening area. I then cover my flatscreen when listening. Sound is fantastic and if anything I needed to dial the bass back.  Nothing shouty or out of place. 3 Dimensional presentation and horns, cymbals, triangles, guitars and vocals sound very natural. With some live tracks it is like you are at the venue.

Don’t get me wrong, my system is incredible and it sounds the best I have heard it in my room. The live music does sound unbelievable! I’m trying to maintain the decor in the room by keeping the pencil drawings above the 6” art panels at eye level.  GIK advised me to just hang the panels directly behind the speakers at my ear level.  I can experiment more when I finish my dedicated room.

Thanks for your insight!

ric

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 362
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #7 on: 10 Jul 2021, 01:39 pm »
I had been watching (name escapes me) some YT videos on acoustics and I decided to try covering my tv with a foam pad from a patio chair. It works! As he says in the video, glass sounds like glass, which in my case was tizzy and bright and I see you have glass all over the front between the speakers. Try a comforter, heavy blanket, wool, insulation that you can throw in there and see if that affects your sound. For bass, check your listening position or try moving the speakers away from the corners an inch or so. Good luck!
Name is Acoustic Fields on YouTube!

doggie

Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #8 on: 10 Jul 2021, 04:23 pm »
I had been watching (name escapes me) some YT videos on acoustics and I decided to try covering my tv with a foam pad from a patio chair. It works! As he says in the video, glass sounds like glass, which in my case was tizzy and bright and I see you have glass all over the front between the speakers. Try a comforter, heavy blanket, wool, insulation that you can throw in there and see if that affects your sound. For bass, check your listening position or try moving the speakers away from the corners an inch or so. Good luck!
Name is Acoustic Fields on YouTube!

The blanket helped some but that room treatment square in front of the TV has helped a lot.

Those are GIK Acoustics "244 Bass Trap with FlexRange Technology" panels behind the X5's


DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #9 on: 10 Jul 2021, 09:08 pm »
I had been watching (name escapes me) some YT videos on acoustics and I decided to try covering my tv with a foam pad from a patio chair. It works! As he says in the video, glass sounds like glass, which in my case was tizzy and bright and I see you have glass all over the front between the speakers. Try a comforter, heavy blanket, wool, insulation that you can throw in there and see if that affects your sound. For bass, check your listening position or try moving the speakers away from the corners an inch or so. Good luck!
Name is Acoustic Fields on YouTube!

My speakers are 5.5 feet away from the left corner and the right speaker is open to the hallway areas, (See zoomed out pic).I placed a fleece blanket over my tv during one listening session and it did seem to help.  My teenage son likes to have jazz listening sessions with me and he loves the visuals of Roon on the tv screen, so I don’t cover the tv.

Thanks for the advice!



The blanket helped some but that room treatment square in front of the TV has helped a lot.

Those are GIK Acoustics "244 Bass Trap with FlexRange Technology" panels behind the X5's



The stained finish on your X5s are nice!  That GIK 244 is a good idea to place in front of the tv.  I can always remove it after listening sessions.

Thanks!

doggie

Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #10 on: 10 Jul 2021, 11:25 pm »
My speakers are 5.5 feet away from the left corner and the right speaker is open to the hallway areas, (See zoomed out pic).I placed a fleece blanket over my tv during one listening session and it did seem to help.  My teenage son likes to have jazz listening sessions with me and he loves the visuals of Roon on the tv screen, so I don’t cover the tv.

The stained finish on your X5s are nice!  That GIK 244 is a good idea to place in front of the tv.  I can always remove it after listening sessions.

The GIK panels are the large tans ones immediately behind the speakers. Not sure of the brand or specs of the smaller one in front of the TV. It was gifted to me by my daughter-in-law. I also have a couple of panels at the first reflection point on the ceiling above the couch-listening position.

My X5's only have a few hours on them. Once they break in I may also try some diffusors behind them rather than the bass traps.

The X5's already sound good!

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #11 on: 11 Jul 2021, 12:07 pm »
The GIK panels are the large tans ones immediately behind the speakers. Not sure of the brand or specs of the smaller one in front of the TV. It was gifted to me by my daughter-in-law. I also have a couple of panels at the first reflection point on the ceiling above the couch-listening position.

My X5's only have a few hours on them. Once they break in I may also try some diffusors behind them rather than the bass traps.

The X5's already sound good!

That’s a nice gift!  I had the GIK Alpha Series bass trap/diffuser panels hanging directly behind my speakers and replaced them with the 6” bass trap acoustic art panels.  I wanted to dampen the room as much as I could due to the 2-story ceilings, etc.  It really helped. 

Mr. Big

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 633
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #12 on: 11 Jul 2021, 03:23 pm »
Mr. Big, you are correct concerning the speakers to speak the truth.  I have clearly heard unbelievable resolution, details, incredible bass and sound staging on many tunes.  Then, I listen to another tune and it’s like I’m listening to a totally different system.  I finally understand that it tends to be the recordings and my speakers are simply giving the facts.  I’m confident when I am setup in my dedicated room, the speakers will go to greater heights infidelity.  Plus I have the huge Salamander stand in the middle of my speakers.  Not a good idea, but I don’t have the flexibility to move it around in that room.  The GIK treatments I have on the wall are the best I can do in this shared living space without my wife telling me to pack up my gear and go.  Lol…. So, I’m doing the best I can at the moment.  I’ve done the clap test, toe-in/toe-out, switched from AQ speaker and interconnect cables to Cardas cables, Shunyata Venom AC cables to AQ Monsoon to Blizzard and Thunder AC cables with Niagara 1200 & 3000, Benchmark DAC to Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE DAC with Intona USB isolator & Intona USB cables, PS Audio Gain Cell DAC and M700 monoblocks to PrimaLuna EVO400 preamp and EVO400 amp, and the room is clearly my biggest issue.  The speakers are sounding the best I have ever heard in the room with all that I mentioned above, so I’m still breaking them in!

So, you replaced your AQ speaker cables for the Analysis Plus?  Lastly, where do you aim your AMT drivers; over your shoulders, directly at your ears, etc.?

No, I used Analysis Plus speaker cables for a while. I went to all AQ Tornado's HC on my gear, so I decided to add the William Tell so I will be consistent. Was nothing wrong with AP Black Mesh, in fact, they had more weight to the bottomend. I don't own your speakers I own the Sapphires M3's. I have them toed in so the tweeter goes in between my neck and shoulders. I am happy with the sound of a very good balance. Toes-in is important and each room is different. With my use of my system, it took a good few months to break the speakers in, and yes, Clayton is right to leave the house turn up the system, and get those woofers to work. I have a test disc with bass burn-in and the bass on that track moves ait where I feel it on my chest the pressure, when I heard that I knew if the bass is lacking it is not the speakers but the recordings.


Thanks for the feedback!

Desertpilot

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 530
  • Retired
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #13 on: 11 Jul 2021, 05:49 pm »
That’s a nice gift!  I had the GIK Alpha Series bass trap/diffuser panels hanging directly behind my speakers and replaced them with the 6” bass trap acoustic art panels.  I wanted to dampen the room as much as I could due to the 2-story ceilings, etc.  It really helped.

I was wondering why you made the change.  I have the 6A diffusor/absorbers behind my speakers like your original photo.

Marcus

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #14 on: 11 Jul 2021, 10:41 pm »
Mr Big, I understand now.  I misunderstood which brand of speaker cables you were currently using after reading your initial post.  I used AQ cables for years and always loved them.  I’ve played with speaker placement quite a bit and decided to let the system break in some more before I settle on the best positioning.

Thanks for clarifying.

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #15 on: 11 Jul 2021, 10:58 pm »
I was wondering why you made the change.  I have the 6A diffusor/absorbers behind my speakers like your original photo.

Marcus

Marcus, I had the 4A diffuser/absorber panels that you saw in my picture and the room was still too live.  I wanted to dampen the big open room as best I could without ruining the decor by hanging panels all over the place, so I went with the 6” acoustic art absorbers.  I definitely heard the difference, but I’m curious how the 6Alpha diffuser/absorbers would have changed the sound?  I think your 6” diffuser/absorbers may have sufficed for my setup because the thicker absorber would help with more dampening and the diffuser creates a nice balance in the mid to high frequency range.

By the way, I’ve enjoyed reading your original post and additional dialogue you’ve created about the Spatial Audio X series!  Great information has been shared as a result.  Keep us posted on the evolution of your new X3’s.

Thanks

Desertpilot

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 530
  • Retired
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #16 on: 12 Jul 2021, 01:26 am »
Marcus, I had the 4A diffuser/absorber panels that you saw in my picture and the room was still too live.  I wanted to dampen the big open room as best I could without ruining the decor by hanging panels all over the place, so I went with the 6” acoustic art absorbers.  I definitely heard the difference, but I’m curious how the 6Alpha diffuser/absorbers would have changed the sound?  I think your 6” diffuser/absorbers may have sufficed for my setup because the thicker absorber would help with more dampening and the diffuser creates a nice balance in the mid to high frequency range.

GIK is very fuzzy about how the diffusor works and at what frequencies.  Based on their specs, I think there is good absorption between 125 Hz and 1,000 Hz (mid range on the X3).  Above 1,000 Hz is the AMT driver so I assume diffusion in this area.  Not much help below 125 Hz so it doesn't work for the bass driver which is crossed over at 90 Hz and below.  You have me curious as I have 14 foot vaulted ceilings.  I'll consider your solution.  But, for me, the sound is great so I may not mess with it.

By the way, I’ve enjoyed reading your original post and additional dialogue you’ve created about the Spatial Audio X series!  Great information has been shared as a result.  Keep us posted on the evolution of your new X3’s.

Thanks

Thank you so much for your positive comment.  I'm learning too and I super appreciate everyone's input.  Anyone who is serious about this hobby has to feel somewhat overwhelmed by all the variables.  My posts are intended to help give all of us a "playbook" of actions so we can set up our gear and enjoy superb music reproduction.

Marcus

DBT AUDIO

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 261
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #17 on: 13 Jul 2021, 07:31 pm »
GIK is very fuzzy about how the diffusor works and at what frequencies.  Based on their specs, I think there is good absorption between 125 Hz and 1,000 Hz (mid range on the X3).  Above 1,000 Hz is the AMT driver so I assume diffusion in this area.  Not much help below 125 Hz so it doesn't work for the bass driver which is crossed over at 90 Hz and below.  You have me curious as I have 14 foot vaulted ceilings.  I'll consider your solution.  But, for me, the sound is great so I may not mess with it.

Marcus

GIK’s product features comparison page claims the 6” Acoustic Art Panel and 6” Alpha Pro Series lowest frequency is 70Hz.  It appears GIK’s lowest frequency management panel is the Scopus Tuned Membrane Bass Trap (T40) which handles a range from 30Hz - 60Hz.  Not sure how to deal with lower bass frequencies?  If you like your sound, be content and don’t spend the extra money on the 6” absorbers unless you can use them somewhere else if you like the 6 Alphas better.

Thanks!

529proaudio

Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #18 on: 16 Jul 2021, 01:12 pm »
To the OP...I have yet to get my hands on a set of Spatials, so take this with a grain of salt, but I had the exact same challenges you describe with an overly large and reflective listening room that happened to be a shared living room and no WAF for acoustic treatment. 

Like an idiot, I spent a fortune upgrading components to try and get the sound I expected, to no avail.  Then one day I moved my system into my master bedroom and was instantly rewarded with vastly superior results.  I sold off the "big" system costing $15k and am getting considerably better sound out of a $3k system in a better room.  This has also been my experience as a recording engineer...the room trumps the equipment 100% of the time.  The best microphone in the world is going to sound poor in a bad room, whereas an "okay" microphone in a great room will typically sound great. 

I know that the Spatials should have far less room interaction than conventional box speakers, but even Clayton seems to stress the importance of acoustic treatment in conjunction with his speakers.  It is my humble opinion that if you are trying to fix the sound via tweaks like power cables, then you need to STOP and either fix the room or move to a different one entirely.  I know in my old room, the reflections were so bad there is no way I could even hear the subtle impact of switching cables.     

I would love to try the Spatials, but I just don't have the space to pull them the requisite 3'+ from the wall in my small-ish room.  Good luck on getting your dedicated room built-out.  I expect it will make a world of difference when it comes to realizing the full potential of your X5s.

   

Mr. Big

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 633
Re: Greetings from Spatial Audio X5 Owner!
« Reply #19 on: 16 Jul 2021, 01:44 pm »
You have nailed it, and you are 100% dead-on right 100K in equipment will sound horrible in a room left untreated and a system costing 1/10 the cost would kill it in a room built around an audio system and treated. The room is your sound, so take the time a treat it, because you spent good money on your gear so why sell it short putting it in a bad room not fit for any audio system 2-channel or Video multi-channel.