MM de Capo i with SS amp/pre

BeeBop · « **on:** 9 Jan 2005, 02:37 pm »

I am interested in the de capo i and have an ss amp and pre setup (bryston 3BSST/BP25). I am seeing a lot of comment that these speakers should be used only with tube gear and I am wondering if anyone who is using them with ss gear can weigh in on their thoughts.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Jan 2005, 05:55 pm »

I think that combination would not be the best IMO. Very clean, neutral gear doesn't mesh that well with the MMDCI's. I tried a Plinius, which has far more liquidity and "tube-like" warmth than the Bryston gear, and I'd still say go fully tubed with the MMDCI.

Best,
Michael

Vikram · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Jan 2005, 07:59 pm »

Long ago I used to own the Bryston setup. Despite my present predilection for SET and high efficiency speakers, Bryston makes superb gear...just in a different flavor than I like now.

I would highly recommend the PSB Stratus series of speakers like the Mini, Bronze, Silver or even Gold if you have the room. If it were me I would do the Mini with a sub or the Silver.

If you want to spend more money I would also look to Dynaudio or Harbeth with my preference for the latter.

The de Capo's are wonderful speakers but not right for everyone or every system. Nothing wrong with Bryston, but with the de Capo's they are a terrible match.

Best,
Vik

BeeBop · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Jan 2005, 08:51 pm »

I was thinking Dynaudio too. Thanks for the feedback!

T-Dogg · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jan 2005, 02:17 pm »

I'm using a pair of 3a Midi Master's with a Copland CTA-301 and a Simaudio W-5. It sounds fantastic. I don't know how other solid state gear sounds with these speakers or their newer variants but not all solid state gear sounds bad with it. I used the 3a Midi Master's with a YBA Integre for about a year before I upgraded to the Copland / W-5 combo and the YBA and MM worked very, very nicely together.

Tyrone

uncontop · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jan 2005, 08:21 pm »

I am using the MM deCapo-i in the following system:
YBA Integre DT
Linn Sondek LP12, Ittok II, Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood,
Arcam Alpha 9
MIT Interconnects
Audioquest Power Cords
XLO Speaker Cable Shotgun Bi-wire
I have a PrimaLuna ProLogue Two on order (KT-88) because I desire the valve option, when the mood strikes. That aside, you could not go wrong with the YBA Integre DT, or the YBA Passion. Through the deCapos the Integre is detailed, transparent, yet very musical and non-fatigueing. Be sure to match the MM's to a good front end (trash in - trash out).

OwenMeany · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Jan 2005, 01:09 am »

Quote from: mcrespo71

I tried a Plinius, which has far more liquidity and "tube-like" warmth than the Bryston gear, and I'd still say go fully tubed with the MMDCI.

Best,
Michael

I was thinking of the Plinius Integrated, you did not like the match? Thoughts?

To answer the original question: I think the PB25 is a fantatic preamp, try and keep it and play with differnt amps. I do agree that the Bryston amps may not be the best match...but I have not heard newer SST amps. I sure loved my 3BST & PB25 from a few years ago...

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Jan 2005, 02:20 am »

Quote from: OwenMeany

Quote from: mcrespo71
I tried a Plinius, which has far more liquidity and "tube-like" warmth than the Bryston gear, and I'd still say go fully tubed with the MMDCI.

Best,
Michael

I was thinking of the Plinius Integrated, you did not like the match? Thoughts?

To answer the original question: I think the PB25 is a fantatic preamp, try and keep it and play with differnt amps. I do agree that the Bryston amps may not be the best match...but I have not heard newer SST amps. I sure loved my 3BST & PB25 from a few years ago...

No, I thought the match was very, very solid. Certainly the best SS integrated I've heard hooked up to the MMDCI, but really my ? is WHY? You don't need all the power the Plinius has and as good as it was, it was bettered by my own tube gear and literally every other fully tubed stuff I've heard with the MMDCI (think ASL SET monos, ASL SET integrated). My tube gear is push pull and has far more power than the MMDCI's need- even in triode. I can understand why people would think that the Plinius is a great match- (it's good- not great IMO), but I doubt they have really heard the MMDCI's with lots of tube options. If I were ever going to switch my stereo, it would be to go all Naim and as great as that stuff is, I'd never match it with the MMDCI's. The De Capo's would go- I'll only use them with tubes, but others have had good luck with SS, so it's not as though going Plinius would be a bad move; just not the best move for the MMDCI's IMO. On another note, though, I was completely impressed with the Plinius in it's own right- a very special integrated and does so many things very, very right. I only like one integrated more than it- Naim Nait 5, but I'd never use this with MMDCI's either.

Michael

OwenMeany · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Jan 2005, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: mcrespo71

No, I thought the match was very, very solid. Certainly the best SS integrated I've heard hooked up to the MMDCI, but really my ? is WHY?

I can only say "why" I was thinking of it:

I want the warmth of tubes and the slam of SS. Is that not what we are all after? I reviewed the ASL Integrated I thought it was a great value and sounded nice with the Dulcets (which I was also reviewing at the time). But honestly, it was just too big and ugly. I do not have a listening room so me stuff has to somwhat integrate with my living room.

It is funny that you mentioned Naim, I am currently reviewing the CDX2. I really like the way it pushes the speakers to be their best. Right now I am useing a Brendensen Integrated. It is pretty nice but the best match for the De Cappos...I am waiting the Bel Canto Gen II integrated, I'll let you know how that fits in..

jtb

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Jan 2005, 06:54 pm »

Quote from: OwenMeany

I can only say "why" I was thinking of it:

I want the warmth of tubes and the slam of SS. Is that not what we are all after? I reviewed the ASL Integrated I thought it was a great value and sounded nice with the Dulcets (which I was also reviewing at the time). But honestly, it was just too big and ugly. I do not have a listening room so me stuff has to somwhat integrate with my living room.

It is funny that you mentioned Naim, I am currently reviewing the CDX2. I really like the way it pushes the sp ...

Yeah, obviously everyone wants that, but IMO, it doesn't fully exist in the world of integrateds. You are going to give up something to the other technology- whether it be having a warm SS that gives up texture and dimensionality to Tubes or a quick sounding tube amp with slam, but tubes never have quite the slam or damping ability of SS amps- again, just my experience. The beauty of the DeCapo I is that it is super fast, transparent, articulate, and efficient, so one need not worry about having tons of watts on hand and can focus on quality. My VTL monoblocks clearly aren't as quick or have as much slam as competing SS, but the De Capo's don't really expose this weakness at all b/c they 1) are so damn efficient w/a benign impedance and 2) given proper placement are fast as shit, so there is no real slow down to the music when using a tube amp. Moreover, you get all the true qualities of the MMDCI's in spades, which is resolution, scale, texture, and speed. The Dulcet is less efficient and, as you said, can handle SS in a more benign manner than the MMDCI's.

If you find the great SS match for the MMDCI, I'd like to hear about it. So far, none of the supposed saviours that I've heard could cut it over the long run with this speaker.

Best,
Michael

catholic taste · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Feb 2005, 01:54 am »

I have found surprising results with an Arcam FMJ A22 (mosfet and not the bipolar of newer Arcams). I had packed the Arcam away as it made my B&W's seem slow...not so with the lightening quick Decapo's. The warmth of the Arcam make it less cable sensitive.

Vikram · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Feb 2005, 01:59 am »

Yeah it seems that amps like Arcam and Rega might do really well with the DeCapo. Great news since both companies make great products for the money!

Vik

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Feb 2005, 04:23 am »

The last set up I have heard was on Saturday and I felt that the SS amp, an AKSA that weighted in at 55-100 watts(I could not remember which was it) paired with a mini tubed preamp gave the DeCapos a nice, control and bass intense sound. Not what I was used to, but it was nevertheless decent, especially with a really great digital source.

Chuck · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Apr 2005, 01:42 pm »

I hope it is okay for me to add a question here...don't want to hijack this thread...

I am a relative newbie without technical knowledge. Of the many "flavors" of speakers I have had in my home over the past six years, I find my tastes tend toward a dynamic (even slighty bright), detailed (even analytical) presentation. I like fast speakers with lots of detail and a dynamic presentation. I like about as much detail and speed as I can get right up to the point of becoming harsh sounding. I have finally settled on SS gear after much experimenting and will be using an Odyssey Stratos Extreme amp and Odyssey Tempest pre.

I have been considering these speakers for some time now based solely on what I have been reading...haven't found any locally that I can audition.

My question is, can you guys elaborate as to WHY most of you agree that SS isn't the best match with these speakers? Can they become too analytical with SS? Can they get harsh? Please bear in mind my subjective tastes in speakers tends toward the analytical and bright presentation anyway?

I appreciate any help/advice/opinions you guys may have for me.

BTW, anybody heard these speakers with the Stratos or Stratos Extreme?

Thanks again.

Vikram · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Apr 2005, 03:50 pm »

Considering what your tastes are then the de Capo and your amps may work. The de Capo's are the most transparent box speaker I have ever heard and that includes the wonderful Merlin VSM. What you will hear is a very forward midrange especially on female vocals. Depending on your room the bass will be fairly full (if a small room) or very tight (large room) but always deep. I get reasonable output down to 30Hz in my room.

If you like really fast and really forward there are other speakers that may even be better than the De Capo though. Martin Logan speakers are right up there with the de Capo's in terms of transparency and speed and are much brighter.

Also use silver cable or Nordost if you can afford it. It is very fast and to my ears very bright, especially the Red Dawn stuff.

Best of luck!
Vik

Jonathan · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Apr 2005, 04:10 pm »

Quote

I find my tastes tend toward a dynamic (even slighty bright), detailed (even analytical) presentation. I like fast speakers with lots of detail and a dynamic presentation. I like about as much detail and speed as I can get right up to the point of becoming harsh sounding.

I say go for it. Your description of the sound you like is right up the DC's alley. I've heard them in my room with a few different ss integrateds, as well as a McIntosh 2100. I've also heard them driven by a couple of different SET amps. The SET experience (along with Vik's wonderful sounding AudioNote DAC) was pretty great, but even with the other amps in the rig, the DCs have never failed to captivate me (or others who have heard the system). And with the 105 watt ss Mac amp, they can really rock.

My current amusement has been using the little SonicT amp. In it's stock form using AA batteries, I'm flabbergasted at how clean and clear the sound is. Granted, it won't drive the speakers to ridiculously loud levels, but at moderate volume levels it's pretty darned amazing. I have a second one on order, and am looking forward to putting one on each channel and adding a better power source (still deciding whether to go with SLA batteries or a wall wart).

Anyway, again, if you want a fast, detailed, yet full sounding small(ish) monitor, go for the De Capos. Even with solid state amps, I think you'll be happy.

Chuck · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Apr 2005, 04:35 pm »

Thanks guys. I guess I just wanted some reassurance that these would work well with what I already have...understanding that for most, tubes are ideal with this speaker.

Now if I can just find these used...

I guess owners tend to hang on to these speakers...a good sign.

Thanks again.h

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Apr 2005, 05:07 am »

Quote from: Bemopti123

The last set up I have heard was on Saturday and I felt that the SS amp, an AKSA that weighted in at 55-100 watts(I could not remember which was it) paired with a mini tubed preamp gave the DeCapos a nice, control and bass intense sound. Not what I was used to, but it was nevertheless decent, especially with a really great digital source.

Just spotted this.....

.

The preamp....Philly Audio 7A.[/list:u]

drphoto · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Apr 2005, 03:01 pm »

Chuck,

I have a pair of mmDCi on extended loan. My system is a Stan Warren Aiwa/MSB digital source (a very smooth sounding rig) Odyssey Tempest and Odyssey Monos (not extreme version) IC's are Gronenburg and speaker cable is Kimber 8TC bi-wire. Room is 20x25x9 w/ some minor diffusor treatments.

With this setup, the sound is detailed and very dynamic, but there is an upper midrange glare and a certain 'sterility' to the sound I don't find enjoyable.

I've been wanting to try something like the Clari-T or a nice small tube integrated before I decide to buy these.

Anyone given the Clari-T a shot?

Jonathan · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Apr 2005, 04:07 pm »

Quote

Anyone given the Clari-T a shot?

I've not heard the ClariT, but I am using just a plain, stock SonicT with 8 AA batteries. The sound is great, irrespective of the fact that the amp costs $20. It won't play to ear shattering levels (with a lot of power the De Capos will play very loudly), but kept to a reasonable level, I hear clean and clear sound with wonderful imaging projected way behind the speakers, and a huge soundstage. The overall sound is an improvement over my Mac 2100 amp, which tends to be lacking in overall high end extension (however, the Mac will totally rock the DCs in a way that the SonicT cannot).

Quote

upper midrange glare and a certain 'sterility' to the sound I don't find enjoyable.

This is a common complaint from some DC owners, and I have had love/hate relationship with my De Capos for this very reason. Some say that this is simply a matter of finding the right SET amp and source, but I think it's a fundamental element of the sound of the speaker.