AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Open Baffle Speakers => Topic started by: renaudrenaud on 18 Apr 2023, 02:22 am
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Hello,
With my wife me moved in China in July 2022. We arrived with some little boxes and a pair of very neutral near field active studio monitors.
But now, I want some fun and try to build something. I don't want another regular box I used to listen the last 40 years...
Musing around here and there and looking for something different, I finally found some Open Baffle designs, with Chinese speakers. I found Lii Audio was providing components for Decware and here in China the cost for the speakers is cheaper than in Europe or USA.
For example I found the the 2022 Fast F-15 for around 120€ / 130$ on taobao, from the original shop
I was unable to find the old F15 from the shop, juste the new model is available.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252202)
Seller measurements:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252203)
Do you think this speaker is ok for a fun OB project?
Also, do you know were I can found some plans?
Thanks in advance.
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Do you have woodworking tools and a shop at your disposal? have you cut large circles before with a router & done glue-ups? if so, there are a bunch of fairly simple plans online or you can just experiment with some low-cost materials to test listen the results of different configurations before deciding on making yourself some (open baffles I suggest) for the F-15s in really pretty wood and finish them up nicely (that's what I did).
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252203)
This F15 chart is not the same sold by the Lii Audio.
It say F15 not Fast15. :scratch:
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This is the Lii Audio F15:
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
This is the Lii Audio F15/18 OB plans, but the Decware Barrel shape seems better sound IMO:
https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/F-18-design-english.jpg
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252203)
This F15 chart is not the same sold by the Lii Audio.
It say F15 not Fast15. :scratch:
I cannot find the F15 used by everybody in the official shop on taobao. For me, the one available is the "new" version, FAST-15 or F15 is the same thing. Well, not sure, but it is what I think.
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I cannot find the F15 used by everybody in the official shop on taobao. For me, the one available is the "new" version, FAST-15 or F15 is the same thing. Well, not sure, but it is what I think.
F15 and FAST15 are not the same driver and TS pars, and price not the same.
Forget Taobao, you can buy at Lii Audio site, still $399 pair.
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
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F15 and FAST15 are not the same driver and TS pars, and price not the same.
Forget Taobao, you can buy at Lii Audio site, still $399 pair.
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
I have send them a mail. It's easier for me to buy on taboao instead of their website, I can pay with my Chinese account in yuans.
There is a translation in english for the one on taobao:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252227)
Also, about this plan:
https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/F-18-design-english.jpg
Is it working with the F18 18 inches or is it also ok for the F15?
Thanks!
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I have send them a mail. It's easier for me to buy on taboao instead of their website, I can pay with my Chinese account in yuans.
There is a translation in english for the one on taobao:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252227)
Also, about this plan:
https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/F-18-design-english.jpg
Is it working with the F18 18 inches or is it also ok for the F15?
Thanks!
I will say again, this your TaoBao FR is not the Lii Audio FAST15 and neither the F15, the $128usd price is too low and it is a totally different driver.
This is the Lii Audio F15:
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
This is the Lii Audio FAST15 as the Qts = 0.528 is too low, this driver dont works for OB it will need a box.
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/one-pair-15-inch-full-range-speakers-optimized-detail-frequency-response-and-soundstage-fast-15/
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I will say again, this your TaoBao FR is not the Lii Audio FAST15 and neither the F15, the price is too low and it is a totally different driver.
This is the Lii Audio F15:
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
This is the Lii Audio FAST15 as the Qts = 0.528 is too low, this driver dont works for OB it will need a box.
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/one-pair-15-inch-full-range-speakers-optimized-detail-frequency-response-and-soundstage-fast-15/
Yes, undertood!
The fac is I am in China and I want to use taobao.
I send them a mail and they answered with the good link for the speaker in the app:
https://m.tb.cn/h.UGLZy6N?tk=mrJFdlwHDrZ
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252228)
Thanks for your help!
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Yes, undertood!
The fac is I am in China and I want to use taobao.
I send them a mail and they answered with the good link for the speaker in the app:
https://m.tb.cn/h.UGLZy6N?tk=mrJFdlwHDrZ
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252228)
Thanks for your help!
This is the Lii Audio FAST15 again, I have just told you the FAST15 dont works for OB, it need a BOX, the Qts is too low. You need the Lii Audio F15 Qts 0.71.
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
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This is the Lii Audio FAST15 again, I have just told you the FAST15 dont works for OB, it need a BOX, the Qts is too low. You need the Lii Audio F15 Qts 0.71.
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
ARGHAAAA!
It was close!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252229)
It's Lii Audio that send me the link to toabao... I have to ask the correct link...
I am feeling sooo stupid.
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If you like bass probably will want use 2 subs to boost the low freq.
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If you like bass probably will want use 2 subs to boost the low freq.
I would like, but we currently are in China and we will move again (and again) in short / medium term, so I have to wait until I retire.
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Ha, I have the choice between F15 and new FAST-15 for +/- 150USD.
What do you think about the difference between the 2 sepakers?
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Ha, I have the choice between F15 and new FAST-15 for +/- 150USD.
What do you think about the difference between the 2 sepakers?
Bro this is the third time I will tell you, the FAST-15 is not recommended for OB because the Qts is too low (0.528) it need a very huge box as Vas is 366 liters.
The F15 Qts 0.71 already not hi, it could be higher as 0.9 but
the F15 is used for OB with apparently success by audiophiles.
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Bro this is the third time I will tell you, the FAST-15 is not recommended for OB because the Qts is too low (0.528) it need a very huge box as Vas is 366 liters.
The F15 Qts 0.71 already not hi, it could be higher as 0.9 but
the F15 is used for OB with apparently success by audiophiles.
Ok, so I am unable to understand why Lii Audio give me the choice of the wood panel and the F15 OR the FAST-15, is it because 2022 FAST15 is QTS: 0.99?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252282)
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Ok, so I am unable to understand why Lii Audio give me the choice of the wood panel and the F15 OR the FAST-15, is it because 2022 FAST15 is QTS: 0.99?
The Lii Audio site show now Qts 0.528
I only know what is on the Lii Audio site.
I dont have the TaoBao link.
Could be useful if you could ask they why Lii Audio site show Qts=0.528 and if they will change this info.
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/one-pair-15-inch-full-range-speakers-optimized-detail-frequency-response-and-soundstage-fast-15/
Technical data:
Nominal impedance Z: 8 Ohms
Power：40-80W
Frequency response：fo-18khz
Fs: 36.5 Hz
Sd: 245.703 cm³
Qms: 7.583
Qes: 0.324
Qts: 0.528
Magnet：Y47
Mean Sound Pressure Level: 97.1dB （2.83V/1m）
Weight: 12 KG
Package dimension: 46*52*52 cm
Paper Cone Material: Compound Pulp
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Done, I asked few minutes ago.
Time will tell, 1000$ for F15 or 1200$ for FAST15 (finished, complete, with shipping).
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Their answer
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252287)
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Well, I finally understood what is wrong with this story. Really wrong.
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[
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This is not a question of ability for a driver to work in open baffle or not.
The question, for me, was the difference between the prices and the specs from taobao in a side, and the western website in the other side.
The explanation is here in this thread :
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-lii-audio-fast-15-anyone-hear-these-yet.391776/
Main explanation on page 2. How an employee stole the name and cheat with the products on the western market.
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Apparently both companies are solidly constituted technically.
In view of these unexpected probs I would not buy the F15 in
any way, much less the FAST-15, but only the F18 from
Lii Audio.com what have a good Qts and maybe dont need a sub
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/one-pair-18-inch-full-range-speakers-superb-scale-soundstage-with-new-imaging-f-18/
Technical Data:
Impedance: 8 ohm
Power: 40 – 80 W
Frequency response: Fu – 15k Hz
Fs: 38.7 Hz
Sd: 119.46 cm²
Qms: 18.656
Qes: 0.985
Qts: 0.935
Sensitivity: 97.8 dB （2.83V/1m）
Vas: 661.77 litres
Weight (a pair): 18 KG
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/lii-audio-f18.html
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Finally found how to upload an image.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252576)
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Looks great, lets us know how it sounds after the break-in.
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Ha... It is working since last Saturday and I am working at home, so it means it is from 08:00 to 23:00 each day.
I use a little amp, the FOSI BTA20 pro, paid 57€, so the total cost with the amp was less than 400€.
I am very happy with the results because it was a fun project shared with my wife. She helped a lot, in particular with the wood. She knows a lot in mechanic (and a lot of other topics, but mechanic knowledge is good for building a first Open Baffle). We continue to work on the project with a full toolbox of ideas.
Not sure to be qualified to describe the sound but I can try with my words and my own feeling
- sound is very soft, not tiring, comfortable
- on vocals, male or female, it is verry good
- nice 3D presentation
- lot of micro details
- dynamic is spectacular
I've ordered an Umik-1 and will take some measurements with REW and will see if we need some convolution.
I did not test BASTA! yet for simulation, it runs only on zindozs and I hate this OS, I do not like telemetry, adds and bloatware. I do not know how to manage that yet (a VM with WIndows 2000 maybe).
My wife designed the model, ordered the wood and cut it.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252578)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252580)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252581)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252582)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252583)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252584)
We plan to re-cut but I want some measurements before we cut the round shape.
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The driver in a low position near the floor will delivery more bass.
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Maybe more bass with the driver closer to the floor, but at the expense of imaging - not the right trade-off IMO. Keep the driver CL near your sitting ear height (I found that out the hard way).
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Yes, we are designing a support for the panel allowing us a fine tuning for the angle.
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Chances are you will dont like a too slanted angle.
This is your wife working for you in the wood working?
Incredible, you really are a locky man.
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Tried the F15 solo in a wide baffle but much prefer it in a smaller baffle bi-amped with bass woofer support.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=247747)
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My first experimental baffle using the F-15 was sort of a cross between the dimensions of the Decware and Mr. Glow-in-the-dark's version. Bass was weak but probably ok for some. Elevating the F-15 atop the H-frame supporting woofers proved to be a much better solution.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252706)
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Chances are you will dont like a too slanted angle.
This is your wife working for you in the wood working?
Incredible, you really are a locky man.
I built my F15 stands with adjustable tilt angle. I use a digital angle gauge to measure and ensure they are both the same. The optimum tilt angle is different for different listening distances from the speaker (obviously?)
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My first experimental baffle using the F-15 was sort of a cross between the dimensions of the Decware and Mr. Glow-in-the-dark's version. Bass was weak but probably ok for some. Elevating the F-15 atop the H-frame supporting woofers proved to be a much better solution.
Do you could stuffing inside the H Frame walls with 10mm car wood blanket to increase the bass and inform us the results?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102638)
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I use 3/4" MDF covered with heavy wallpaper. Filler between layers or thicker baffles may be required to reduce resonance if one plays at extreme SPL's but I don't.
I favor MDF for baffles as it tends to be deader that plywood. The objective with OB's is you don't want to hear the baffles.
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Cork also works well to combat baffle resonance. Here I used thick cork placemats from Ikea.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252755)
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To the OP, how is this driver working out for you? After reading the diyAudio thread you posted, got the impression that the Xizi morning glory / non-Lii Song drivers (like you used) were not available in the US. Then found this on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/AVPLAY-FAST-15-Frequency-Speaker-50-80W/dp/B0C3GRFJTK/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=lii%2Baudio&qid=1703523181&sr=8-3&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/AVPLAY-FAST-15-Frequency-Speaker-50-80W/dp/B0C3GRFJTK/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=lii%2Baudio&qid=1703523181&sr=8-3&th=1)
Like you posted, this driver claims to have a QTS of .99
Full disclosure, I'm interested in this driver instead of the Lii song model mainly due to the ability to buy it from Amazon (with my Store Card).
FYI, found their web site:
https://www.lii-audio-hifi.com/ (https://www.lii-audio-hifi.com/)
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Finally got my new Fast 15s in a test baffle....I know this is all wrong, but just temporary :D The plan is to do a PAP style modular OB. As of now, decided to have the Fii in the middle, and two Eminence Beta 15 bass drivers underneath and above. Tried the Fiis on the floor, a little higher up on some milk crates (for WMW), and then on my 24" stands (for MWW). Very happy with what I'm hearing so far.
Right now driving them with a W4S M-pre/ dual M-amps, will use Crown XLS1500s for the bass driver, and IB subs in the ceiling above, if needed...
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q70/922/jC7dQs.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q70/923/tP6UzC.jpg)
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Just came across these on FB,
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261064)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261065)
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Is that dynamat on the back? I have a bunch of that stuff left over from my Maggie modding days.
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I believe it similar