AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: wushuliu on 11 Sep 2017, 07:29 pm

Title: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 11 Sep 2017, 07:29 pm
The DAC turnaround cycle is nuts. Check this out:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168437)

SMSL Idea: Sabre ES9018Q2C USB DAC/head amp with XMOS XU208. 32bit/768khz. Up to DSD 512.

https://www.amazon.com/SMSL-IDEA-SABRE9018Q2C-DSD512-Black/dp/B06Y1WFT4W

Cost? $86
How does it sound? Very, VERY good. Bye Bye Dragonfly Red.
I'm indifferent to Archimago, but he has a good post about it here: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html

Then just 2 months ago, same factory, different company releases the same DAC for $63!!!

https://www.amazon.com/Sabaj-Da2-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0719FMRKH

Okay, that's nuts but THEN a month ago that company releases THIS:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168438)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073SSNMKK

DUAL ES9018 DAC with Balanced output. Cost? $97

That's. Just. Nuts.

Yes, I got the dual one. Had to. Curiosity was too much. It sounds the same as the single version, however I'm positive the noise floor is lower and the amount of inner
detail is impressive. I have a heavily modded PC and power supply chain so that helps a lot I'm sure, but this level of performance for this price is crazy. The key here IMO is the XU208. The XU208 and 216 XMOS had to be bought as a separate add-on just a year ago like the Singxer F1, etc. It raises the performance of a usb dac considerably and became very popular. A year later you can find it on a $63 DAC. Crazy.

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jtwrace on 11 Sep 2017, 07:42 pm
Have you ever seen any DSD with preamp for those costs? 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 11 Sep 2017, 08:17 pm
Have you ever seen any DSD with preamp for those costs?

Not that I know of (but then I don't really use DSD).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Odal3 on 12 Sep 2017, 02:46 am
Thanks for sharing! How does it compare to your other DACs?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JLM on 12 Sep 2017, 10:09 am
But are you buying features and specifications or sound quality? 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Sep 2017, 01:40 pm
Thanks for sharing! How does it compare to your other DACs?

The Sabaj DA3 is better than the dragonfly red no question. It is an audiophile dac that almost makes lossy Google Play tracks sound hi res. And that's just with unbalanced output.

Compared to my modded Signstek, the Sabaj/SMSL single chip sabre dacs are not as warm and magical in the mids. But overall fidelity goes to sabre dac. I don't know not really comparable. Just different presentations. But I will never get rid of the signstek. So good.

The dual chip Sabaj however, man, it does some things really well. The signstek I can understand folks being skeptical about. But the dual chip Sabaj I think any audiophile would be impressed.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Sep 2017, 01:50 pm
But are you buying features and specifications or sound quality?

Always sound quality first. That's what I'm trying to say. What you get for $100 is incredible. Maybe the benefit of the newer xmos is not as familiar here as elsewhere. I've brought it up before. They elevate performance. Instrument separation, clarity, micro details are improved. Plus they allow more flexibility with playback software like Jplay so you can squeeze out even more. It is not a minor addition.

I don't know any  other dacs with xu208 or 216 for this price much less dual sabre chips. And can fit in Palm of your hand. All this would have cost 500 or more easily two years ago.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 12 Sep 2017, 03:55 pm
Always sound quality first. That's what I'm trying to say. What you get for $100 is incredible. Maybe the benefit of the newer xmos is not as familiar here as elsewhere. I've brought it up before. They elevate performance. Instrument separation, clarity, micro details are improved. Plus they allow more flexibility with playback software like Jplay so you can squeeze out even more. It is not a minor addition.



But what's your system that you are using/comparing with? I don't see it.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Sep 2017, 04:22 pm

But what's your system that you are using/comparing with? I don't see it.

Hm, show me your papers eh? Been here a while but that's okay. My system changes a lot as I try out different things and it leans heavily to diy. At present:

Headphones: Sennheiser 599
AMP: 3-eaudio TPA3251 Class D Amplifier
Pre: Just passive right now
Speakers: SB Acoustics SB17NAC/TW29R MTM (diy)

PC: i5 Kaby Lake Quad Core, SSD drives powered by linear power supply
USB: IFI iDefender 3.0, iSilencer 3.0, LT3045 .8uV linear power supply to iDefender so USB Dacs are powered by that supply
Software: Jplay, Minimserver, Fidelizer (critical), Tidal, Google Play (casual)

Recent DACs I've owned/listened to include last 12 mos: Soekris R2R (modded), Peachtree DacIT, Dragonfly Red, iDAC2, IFI Micro, Signstek. Probably some more I can't remember.

I am using headphones more and more these days and the Sennheisers most closely mirror the presentation of my MTMs. Haven't played the Sabaj DA3 yet with the MTMs.

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Sep 2017, 04:28 pm
Let me add there's also been a lot of DAC-based diy including synchronous clocking boards and using the aforementioned XU208 and XU216 Xmos USB/SPDIF converters like the Singxer F-1 and related boards, etc.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Odal3 on 12 Sep 2017, 04:28 pm
Thanks for the comparisons! I appreciate that you share info on these type of products and I always read it with great interest. I agree there are some amazing bang for the buck DAC out there and it is tempting to try many.

I have lately been into raspberry pi hat DACs and am getting curious about this future and hopefully affordable ess9028q2m offering from Allo :

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/310338-dac-allo-ess9028q2m-rpi.html

Back to the Sabaj: Are you only using it with a computer and stereo amp  or also for portable and or headphones?
Do you know if it would be easy to mod it to power it separately?
What about drivers - do you need special drivers for windows,linux, android?

Here are some manufacturer (so take with grain of salt) provided pictures of the internals and some measurements
http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=74
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Sep 2017, 04:52 pm
Thanks for the comparisons! I appreciate that you share info on these type of products and I always read it with great interest. I agree there are some amazing bang for the buck DAC out there and it is tempting to try many.

I have lately been into raspberry pi hat DACs and am getting curious about this future and hopefully affordable ess9028q2m offering from Allo :

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/310338-dac-allo-ess9028q2m-rpi.html

Back to the Sabaj: Are you only using it with a computer and stereo amp  or also for portable and or headphones?
Do you know if it would be easy to mod it to power it separately?
What about drivers - do you need special drivers for windows,linux, android?

Here are some manufacturer (so take with grain of salt) provided pictures of the internals and some measurements
http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=74

I'm excited about the RPi/Allo developments. Hearing great things recently. I'm going to wait a  little bit longer and then give their stuff a go. I'll check out the thread, thanks.

I use these dacs for desktop only, not portable.

Easiest way to power it separately would be to get an iDefender and then use power supply of your choice. Just need to make sure you use the appropriate usb connector for the iDefender power port.

I have read there may be some minor driver playback issues for Android/Linux users. So that's something to look out for. Windows 10 has new USB 2 drivers with the recent Creator's update so you can either let those automatically install or you can download the Xmos Drivers from the SMSL or Sabaj website.

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 12 Sep 2017, 05:18 pm
Hm, show me your papers eh? Been here a while but that's okay.



Here you go!


 (http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168429)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Sep 2017, 05:20 pm

Here you go!


 :lol:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Sep 2017, 06:21 pm
Don't need the Idea anymore so I'm happy to loan it out for an informal tour (stateside) if anyone's interested.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 12 Sep 2017, 10:23 pm
Have you tried the balanced output? 

How about 44.1khz upsampled to DSD512?

Any clicks / other sounds at the end of / between tracks?

Finally (sorry for all the Qs), how long did it take to get it here in the States?

Thanks,
Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Sep 2017, 01:15 am
Have you tried the balanced output? 

How about 44.1khz upsampled to DSD512?

Any clicks / other sounds at the end of / between tracks?

Finally (sorry for all the Qs), how long did it take to get it here in the States?

Thanks,
Jim

Hi Jim. I don't use DSD. Getting 512 playback may involve extra steps with Foobar. I'd recommend reading the Archimago post on the SMSL Idea. Someone posted this regarding DSD 512 playback:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html?showComment=1496879168283#c6035919678852419577

Haven't tried the balanced output yet on the Sabaj DA3. No noises between tracks with either dac, but I use Windows. I think a couple Android users mentioned something about noises related to new firmware. The only issues I've read so far are related to Android.

Two weeks via Amazon.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Odal3 on 13 Sep 2017, 01:27 am
Thanks for the additional info. Testing all the latest is fun but I have learned that when it comes to firmware and drivers (regardless if computer audio or network related such as routers) it is often much less headache to have a little bit patience and buy when most of the bugs have been sorted out.  The having patience bit is the hard part :D
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Sep 2017, 01:59 am
Thanks for the additional info. Testing all the latest is fun but I have learned that when it comes to firmware and drivers (regardless if computer audio or network related such as routers) it is often much less headache to have a little bit patience and buy when most of the bugs have been sorted out.  The having patience bit is the hard part :D

I think that's one of the trade offs for what you pay. Android users may have to wait a while for the issues to get sorted, if they get sorted at all, and by the time they do there may be another newer better product. These companies tend to use the stock drivers and that's it. Not much custom development. So Android/Linux folks should avoid.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: danabunner on 13 Sep 2017, 04:19 am
That $97 Sabaj Da3 is very tempting.  I don't have anything with the ESS DACs and do have a preamp with balanced inputs.  If it's crap, I could do without burning a C-note, but would be fun to check out.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Sep 2017, 04:26 am
That $97 Sabaj Da3 is very tempting.  I don't have anything with the ESS DACs and do have a preamp with balanced inputs.  If it's crap, I could do without burning a C-note, but would be fun to check out.

If you're stateside you can borrow mine for a week. Be curious to hear someone else's thoughts, especially re: balanced.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 13 Sep 2017, 01:57 pm
The issue on the balanced front is getting a cable that'll work with that connection.  Found this on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5mm-Balanced-TRRS-to-Dual-XLR-3-pin-Female-Adapter-Cable-/172753487932?var=&hash=item2838e9083c:m:manKIBgAPFAlDTlUM0xO7fg

I have a balanced preamp, too, and am very much considering trying out that Da3.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 13 Sep 2017, 01:58 pm
Hi Jim. I don't use DSD. Getting 512 playback may involve extra steps with Foobar. I'd recommend reading the Archimago post on the SMSL Idea. Someone posted this regarding DSD 512 playback:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html?showComment=1496879168283#c6035919678852419577

Haven't tried the balanced output yet on the Sabaj DA3. No noises between tracks with either dac, but I use Windows. I think a couple Android users mentioned something about noises related to new firmware. The only issues I've read so far are related to Android.

Two weeks via Amazon.

Cool - thank you!

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: danabunner on 13 Sep 2017, 03:27 pm
The issue on the balanced front is getting a cable that'll work with that connection.  Found this on ebay:


Oh, so it uses that odd mini-jack balanced output?  Is that really balanced?

Where's a good place to go to see a photo of it's inputs/outputs?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Sep 2017, 03:33 pm
Oh, so it uses that odd mini-jack balanced output?  Is that really balanced?

Where's a good place to go to see a photo of it's inputs/outputs?

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168454)


Sabaj has a web site:

http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=74
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Sep 2017, 03:50 pm
I've looked inside and there are definitely two DACs and two clocks, a 45 and a 49mhz. Haven't figured out more than that yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't be truly balanced.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 13 Sep 2017, 05:13 pm
Oh, so it uses that odd mini-jack balanced output?  Is that really balanced?

Where's a good place to go to see a photo of it's inputs/outputs?

Weird, right?  4 conductors....I guess the ground floats?

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ccklone on 13 Sep 2017, 05:14 pm
Oh, so it uses that odd mini-jack balanced output?  Is that really balanced? . . . . . .

Hey Now,

It is probably the 4 pole 2.5mm TRRS balanced plug.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0381/4337/products/Oyaide_2.5mm_4_pole_-_03_grande.jpg?v=1483345255)

I use a 3.5 TRRS balanced plug with my Sony ZX2 Walkman.
--
Finest kind,
Chris
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Sep 2017, 05:31 pm
Hey Now,

It is probably the 4 pole 2.5mm TRRS balanced plug.


Correct.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 13 Sep 2017, 10:43 pm
wushuliu, do you know how the volume control works?  Does it cut bits or reduce voltage?

Thanks,
Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Sep 2017, 11:29 pm
wushuliu, do you know how the volume control works?  Does it cut bits or reduce voltage?

Thanks,
Jim


The es9018q2c includes the amplifier - it's an all in one package by ESS, so I am guessing voltage via the buttons. Archimago made no mention of reduced bits in his measurements. So that's another nice thing about these ESS mobile chips - you don't have to worry as much about some dodgy amp section being added since they take care of that for you. Here is the diagram from ESS below, I assume these dacs more or less adhere to it:

Quote
The SABRE9018Q2C SABRE32 Reference DAC is a high-performance 32-bit, 2-channel audio D/A converter with headphone amplifier and output switch.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168465)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 14 Sep 2017, 04:28 am
You can get the da3 for only $92.14 on aliexpress!  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SABAJ-Da3-Tiny-DAC-AmplifierHifi-HI-Res-Headphone-Amplifier-Portable-USB-DAC-OLED-Screen-Balanced-Output/32826030379.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.cjYzii

seems like a good deal, I might try it as a desktop dac with 3.5mm to dual rca cable with a preamp...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 14 Sep 2017, 05:04 pm
The DAC turnaround cycle is nuts. Check this out:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168437)

SMSL Idea: Sabre ES9018Q2C USB DAC/head amp with XMOS XU208. 32bit/768khz. Up to DSD 512.

https://www.amazon.com/SMSL-IDEA-SABRE9018Q2C-DSD512-Black/dp/B06Y1WFT4W

Cost? $86
How does it sound? Very, VERY good. Bye Bye Dragonfly Red.
I'm indifferent to Archimago, but he has a good post about it here: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html

Then just 2 months ago, same factory, different company releases the same DAC for $63!!!

https://www.amazon.com/Sabaj-Da2-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0719FMRKH

Okay, that's nuts but THEN a month ago that company releases THIS:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168438)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073SSNMKK

DUAL ES9018 DAC with Balanced output. Cost? $97

That's. Just. Nuts.

Yes, I got the dual one. Had to. Curiosity was too much. It sounds the same as the single version, however I'm positive the noise floor is lower and the amount of inner
detail is impressive. I have a heavily modded PC and power supply chain so that helps a lot I'm sure, but this level of performance for this price is crazy. The key here IMO is the XU208. The XU208 and 216 XMOS had to be bought as a separate add-on just a year ago like the Singxer F1, etc. It raises the performance of a usb dac considerably and became very popular. A year later you can find it on a $63 DAC. Crazy.
:o
I was going to buy Dragonfly Red than I saw your post.
Any power consumption difference? I know they both use more than Dragonfly Red.I want to use it with Galaxy Note 4.
How many grams is it? I will use it mostly with se215 while walking. I will use it a 3.5mm headphone cable modded 250 DT880 pro occasionally (with a laptop). Which one do you think would be better for me? Da2 or Da3?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 15 Sep 2017, 01:28 pm
:o
I was going to buy Dragonfly Red than I saw your post.
Any power consumption difference? I know they both use more than Dragonfly Red.I want to use it with Galaxy Note 4.
How many grams is it? I will use it mostly with se215 while walking. I will use it a 3.5mm headphone cable modded 250 DT880 pro occasionally (with a laptop). Which one do you think would be better for me? Da2 or Da3?

 Some people have issues using with android devices. Archimago has the power supply measurements for the idea/da2. Don't know what consumption is for DA3 but probably higher.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 15 Sep 2017, 01:35 pm
Bought Da3 anyways. I'm hoping for driver updates or a root android fix. Da2 and Da3 seems to have close power usage (0.8w). Will wait and see in two weeks...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 15 Sep 2017, 08:00 pm
I ordered one too, I like the fact that it has a usb-c port.  That's impressively up to date.  I love not having to worry about orientation when plugging stuff in
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 16 Sep 2017, 12:23 am
The aliexpress price went from 92 to 97 dollars.  We're singlehandedly affecting their dac market!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 16 Sep 2017, 03:04 am
Even better...up on Amazon Prime, shipping next week:

https://www.amazon.com/Sabaj-Da3-Headphone-Amplifiers-Resolution/dp/B073SSNMKK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505531071&sr=8-1&keywords=da3


Just bought one!

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: fredgarvin on 17 Sep 2017, 04:02 pm
Massdrop SMSL Idea- $69.99

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-iDea-dac-amp
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 17 Sep 2017, 07:19 pm
hmm anyone familiar with using dacs with phones?  my phone has a usb-c port, would I just use a usb-c to usb-c male cable?  or do I need a usb c-male to usb A female otg adapter?  then use the cable that comes with this daC
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jmc207 on 17 Sep 2017, 08:57 pm
Fred,

Thanks for posting this. I've joined the drop for this. I'll see if this device will help improve my opinion of ESS-based dacs. I'm one of those who generally finds them somewhat clinical, overdamped (?), and lifeless. I prefer the sound signature of the Signstek that started off this thread.

John

Massdrop SMSL Idea- $69.99

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-iDea-dac-amp
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 18 Sep 2017, 02:47 am
Fred,

Thanks for posting this. I've joined the drop for this. I'll see if this device will help improve my opinion of ESS-based dacs. I'm one of those who generally finds them somewhat clinical, overdamped (?), and lifeless. I prefer the sound signature of the Signstek that started off this thread.

John

ESS dacs have a signature and these dacs are no exception. So if you haven't like the ones you've heard til now, these won't change your mind.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jmc207 on 18 Sep 2017, 03:12 pm
Yeah, I'm not expecting miracles, but I still think this little thing will be interesting to play with at times. I like that is has a volume control.

ESS dacs have a signature and these dacs are no exception. So if you haven't like the ones you've heard til now, these won't change your mind.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: fredgarvin on 18 Sep 2017, 03:42 pm
Fred,

Thanks for posting this. I've joined the drop for this. I'll see if this device will help improve my opinion of ESS-based dacs. I'm one of those who generally finds them somewhat clinical, overdamped (?), and lifeless. I prefer the sound signature of the Signstek that started off this thread.

John

I'm in too, I've been doing without a dac on the desk and this will be a test. The last dac I used in my big rig wasn't any better than what the Marantz player presents. I've been looking at SMSL, and maybe now Sabaj products.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 19 Sep 2017, 04:30 am
Just noticed the DA3 allows you to select three different filters - Fast rolloff, slow, and Minimum phase. You can also have the display turn off. This isn't mentioned anywhere on their website or any product pages...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 23 Sep 2017, 05:01 am
da3 arrived!  so far I've just tested it with iems..  no hiss at max volume with my audio technica ckr9 ltd iems.  has an adjustable volume range of 1-37.  the bottom side has a clear sheet of grippy rubber.  I think this device is targeted at people who want to use it plugged into the side of their laptop to drive some nice iems or full size headphones that don't need too much power.  The screen is pretty nice and the volume ramps up and down smoothly.  It's actually a nicely polished device, no bugginess or bad english in the menus etc.  I'm using the minimum phase filter for now.  Will test it as a dac with my preamp/firstwatt tomorrow!  I have a 3.5mm to dual rca cable around here somewhere

obligatory media because millenials don't read

https://youtu.be/Rfm8tliphdc (https://youtu.be/Rfm8tliphdc)



Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jtwrace on 23 Sep 2017, 12:46 pm
wushuliu, do you know how the volume control works?  Does it cut bits or reduce voltage?

Thanks,
Jim
Is there a way to bypass the amp section at all?  Just use it as a dac? 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 23 Sep 2017, 01:49 pm
Is there a way to bypass the amp section at all?  Just use it as a dac?

All DACs have an amp section.  There's not nearly enough voltage coming of the chip itself to drive anything.

I've got the volume of mine maxed out, input into my preamp. 

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jtwrace on 23 Sep 2017, 01:51 pm
All DACs have an amp section.  There's not nearly enough voltage coming of the chip itself to drive anything.

I've got the volume of mine maxed out, input into my preamp. 

-Jim
How do you like it? 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 23 Sep 2017, 02:21 pm
How do you like it?

So far so good.  Holding off on more verbose impressions until I've had more time with it.

I'm using it with 44.1khz source material upsampled first to 352.8khz and then to dsd512.  All via Foobar. 

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Odal3 on 23 Sep 2017, 06:01 pm
I am curious to hear your impression vs the ifi micro to give a point of reference (didn't you have one for sell recently?)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 23 Sep 2017, 07:37 pm
Is there a way to bypass the amp section at all?  Just use it as a dac?

The amp section is embedded in the sabre mobile chips. Maybe at full volume it bypasses? Good question.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 23 Sep 2017, 11:38 pm
One frustration about usb dacs is how picky they can be. In this case, I don't know if the stock cable that came with the DA3 sucks, if it's a bottleneck because it's part of a USB 3 chain and its just a USB 2 cable or what but I replaced the stock cable with cheap USB 3 adapters from Amazon. It completely opens up the dac and it just sounds marvelous. Like I said, cheap adapters, nothing special. I am guessing the stock cable just isn't very good or maybe it was a bottleneck power-wise.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 24 Sep 2017, 03:37 pm
Does da3 only come with usb c to usb cable?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Sep 2017, 03:58 pm
Does da3 only come with usb c to usb cable?

Yes
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 25 Sep 2017, 12:01 am
The amp section is embedded in the sabre mobile chips. Maybe at full volume it bypasses? Good question.

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.  I think it sounds great - volume maxed out into my preamp.  So good, in fact, that I'm buying a balanced cable and a new power supply for it.

This has got to be one of the greatest deals going!!  Honestly, I find it hard to fault.  Flawless playback at all sample rates and it just sounds GOOD!  The drivers are perfect.  I love XMOS!!

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 25 Sep 2017, 12:02 am
I am curious to hear your impression vs the ifi micro to give a point of reference (didn't you have one for sell recently?)

Yes, I just sold it in fact.  The Micro is very good and hard to fault.  That said, I sold it and am keeping the Da3, so.....

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Odal3 on 25 Sep 2017, 12:53 am
 8)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: DSkip on 25 Sep 2017, 03:00 am
ESS dacs have a signature and these dacs are no exception. So if you haven't like the ones you've heard til now, these won't change your mind.

I'd challenge you to get your ears on the North Star Design DAC's if you haven't found a Sabre-based DAC you like yet.  I've heard several nice DAC's based off these chips and none have the ease of listening I've found with the NSD gear.  Unfortunately you won't find them for Peanuts - the Intenso starts at $1000.

The AURALiC gear also does well with the Sabre chips, but it does keep most of the 'signature' these chips have become known for.  It's just a much cleaner, quieter, and more refined version.


On topic, the SMSL stuff seems to be drawing a ton of interest as of late on several forums.  They have piqued my curiosity while at the same time I've been skeptical to try them given the mass of features they offer for 'Peanuts'.  The iFi stuff is solid for the money.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Sep 2017, 03:48 am
On topic, the SMSL stuff seems to be drawing a ton of interest as of late on several forums.  They have piqued my curiosity while at the same time I've been skeptical to try them given the mass of features they offer for 'Peanuts'.  The iFi stuff is solid for the money.

IFI makes great DACs no question. There are so many DACs out now and the product cycle is so fast that I certainly wouldn't say to someone to run out right now and grab a Sabaj/SMSL. I love it but I know in a year they'll probably have Es9028 chips instead. Six months after that you'll probably be able to get a decent ES9038 for not much more. Beginning of the year an ES9038 DAC started at $800. Now they are popping up at $400 on ebay already - $200 for bare boards...

At this point I am more invested in spending money on power supply solutions - these inexpensive dacs, like the signstek punch above their weight in my setup largely due to all the PS modifications I've done. If I had a $1000, I wouldn't spend more than half that on a retail dac and put the rest in power supply.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: randytsuch on 25 Sep 2017, 02:38 pm
At this point I am more invested in spending money on power supply solutions - these inexpensive dacs, like the signstek punch above their weight in my setup largely due to all the PS modifications I've done. If I had a $1000, I wouldn't spend more than half that on a retail dac and put the rest in power supply.

PS mods are almost always worthwhile, especially usb powered devices.  USB powered is cheap, but if you haven't made mods to it, dirty power.
IMHO, lifepo4 batteries are a fairly inexpensive, relatively easy way to get clean power.  5V is a little harder, you need to put two batteries in series, then use a power resistor to drain them until you get down to 5V before you connect them up.  3.3v you can just connect them up to it, through a switch so you don't drain the batteries.

Randy
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 25 Sep 2017, 05:25 pm
tried out the da3 connected to my preamp today.. it sounds great.  using volume set to max to bypass digital attenuation.

Think I'll try this balanced adapter for it https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ATAUDIO-Silver-Plated-Hifi-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-to-2-XLR-Male-Cable-For-Astell-Kern/32822840419.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.22hiCM
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: randytsuch on 25 Sep 2017, 07:41 pm
ESS dacs have an implementation of digital volume control that should not result in very little degradation.

This is pretty technical:
http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf (http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 27 Sep 2017, 12:57 pm
tried out the da3 connected to my preamp today.. it sounds great.  using volume set to max to bypass digital attenuation.

Think I'll try this balanced adapter for it https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ATAUDIO-Silver-Plated-Hifi-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-to-2-XLR-Male-Cable-For-Astell-Kern/32822840419.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.22hiCM

The problem with that cable is that it doesn't use a ground.  This isn't a problem on portable devices but when you connect the Da3 to a HOME preamp...you might get a hum.

This is the type of cable I'm picking up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dyson-Audio-Gotham-Astell-amp-Kern-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-XLR-Output-Cable-1-0M-/112479651224?nma=true&si=SlgTnGTTwThh7h2M3DbuyIyR8NI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Uses a common ground which isn't ideal, but better than none (and shouldn't hum).

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 27 Sep 2017, 01:05 pm
doh, hopefully no hum.  We'll see though, I already ordered it!  I've been using the da3 as my desktop dac and it's been working flawlessly and remembers to stay at max volume when I reboot my pc so I don't have to fiddle with it.  Definitely has good enough sound to be a desktop dac.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 27 Sep 2017, 01:15 pm
doh, hopefully no hum.  We'll see though, I already ordered it!  I've been using the da3 as my desktop dac and it's been working flawlessly and remembers to stay at max volume when I reboot my pc so I don't have to fiddle with it.  Definitely has good enough sound to be a desktop dac.

Fingers crossed!  Hum isn't a guarantee so hopefully you'll get lucky.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 27 Sep 2017, 01:31 pm
is it more likely than hum from the single ended output?  where are you going to plug the 3.5mm ground into on your preamp? does it have a 3.5mm ground plug?  tha'ts pretty high end..  or just like.. tape it to a chassis?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Sep 2017, 04:14 pm
Just a reminder for PC users: make sure you've spent time optimizing your PC. Go through your bios, check your control panel/Power options, format your drives properly (FAT sounds best), etc. If you have ASIO or similar drivers like XMOS etc., play with all the settings, doublecheck your Audio adapter settings (sometimes your PC will reset sample rates, you never know). Test different USB outputs. All of this is free.
 
I myself forgot to turn off C-States in Bios and some other settings and now I get another bump in sound quality. Cost me nothing.

Make sure to use Deoxit to clean contacts before using. All contacts actually in your chain. Another little bump in sq for very little money. Tested last night with SATA for instance, dac jack and usb inputs and it definitely helped. Easy to forget little things like that.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 27 Sep 2017, 04:16 pm
is it more likely than hum from the single ended output?  where are you going to plug the 3.5mm ground into on your preamp? does it have a 3.5mm ground plug?  tha'ts pretty high end..  or just like.. tape it to a chassis?

You won't get hum w/ the single-ended because it has the ground. 

The 3.5mm on the cable I bought is connected to the unbalanced / single-ended output on the DAC output section just to grab a ground.  Its wired to the ground pin of each of the XLR outputs.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 27 Sep 2017, 04:36 pm
Not affiliated with Moon Audio, but this is a pretty good write-up:

https://www.moon-audio.com/single-ended-versus-balanced-connection

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: OzarkTom on 27 Sep 2017, 05:09 pm
My buddy Rex ordered a D3, I will probably get one also. :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: TrungT on 27 Sep 2017, 11:25 pm
D3 sounds awesome with Android phone (OnePlus3)  :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 28 Sep 2017, 12:21 am
how did you get it to work trung?  I have a usb a female to usb c male cable and my oneplus2 didn't recognize the da3.  I'm waiting for a usb c to micro usb adapter to use with a microusb to usb a female cable
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 28 Sep 2017, 12:38 am
how did you get it to work trung?  I have a usb a female to usb c male cable and my oneplus2 didn't recognize the da3.  I'm waiting for a usb c to micro usb adapter to use with a microusb to usb a female cable

Why didn't you just get a usb c to usb a cable?

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 28 Sep 2017, 12:41 am
I have one, but it doesn't work.  Reading online it seems people only got usb otg to work with their oneplus 2 using a micro usb to a female cable and then an adapter for usb c to microusb so they could use the other cable.  something to do with the oneplus pinout
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: TrungT on 28 Sep 2017, 01:19 am
I have Anker OTG cable C to USB3, and I just hooked up to confirmed it still working great.
Will look into C to C cable next.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 28 Sep 2017, 01:53 am
this is the cable I'm trying with my oneplus 2 that doesn't work :(  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZWN64RS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Sep 2017, 02:11 am
this is the cable I'm trying with my oneplus 2 that doesn't work :(  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZWN64RS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Gotta read those one star reviews. I never buy something with more than 8% one star unless absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 28 Sep 2017, 09:26 am
D3 sounds awesome with Android phone (OnePlus3)  :thumb:
Are there any noise problems?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: TrungT on 28 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm
No noise, working perfectly with OnePlus3. :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: fredgarvin on 28 Sep 2017, 03:28 pm
Gotta read those one star reviews. I never buy something with more than 8% one star unless absolutely necessary.

I hold out for 7%. Much more reliable.  :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 28 Sep 2017, 03:50 pm
I have one, but it doesn't work.  Reading online it seems people only got usb otg to work with their oneplus 2 using a micro usb to a female cable and then an adapter for usb c to microusb so they could use the other cable.  something to do with the oneplus pinout

Your problem might be related to your phones Android version.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 28 Sep 2017, 04:01 pm
android 6 :(
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 28 Sep 2017, 06:19 pm
The problem with that cable is that it doesn't use a ground.  This isn't a problem on portable devices but when you connect the Da3 to a HOME preamp...you might get a hum.

This is the type of cable I'm picking up:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dyson-Audio-Gotham-Astell-amp-Kern-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-XLR-Output-Cable-1-0M-/112479651224?nma=true&si=SlgTnGTTwThh7h2M3DbuyIyR8NI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Uses a common ground which isn't ideal, but better than none (and shouldn't hum).

-Jim

Ok, got the Dyson cable and it works perfectly well!  Just tried it out, but so far so good.

$50 shipped.  Great deal.

-Jim

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 29 Sep 2017, 12:25 am
Here's the actual one I bought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gotham-Astell-Kern-Opus-DP-X1-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-XLR-Output-Cable-1-0M/112579597019?_trkparms=aid%3D777003%26algo%3DDISCL.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D47507%26meid%3D9b4af562653e434380989a6baf015471%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112479651224&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985

Sounding great!!  This is the balanced design you want.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ksbruce on 29 Sep 2017, 07:56 am
Here's the actual one I bought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gotham-Astell-Kern-Opus-DP-X1-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-XLR-Output-Cable-1-0M/112579597019?_trkparms=aid%3D777003%26algo%3DDISCL.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D47507%26meid%3D9b4af562653e434380989a6baf015471%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112479651224&_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985

Sounding great!!  This is the balanced design you want.

-Jim


So you plug in both the 2.5 and the 3.5mm?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 29 Sep 2017, 01:36 pm

So you plug in both the 2.5 and the 3.5mm?

Yep.  The only purposes of the 3.5mm is to grab its ground.  There's no ground on that 2.5mm output.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ksbruce on 29 Sep 2017, 08:16 pm
Yep.  The only purposes of the 3.5mm is to grab its ground.  There's no ground on that 2.5mm output.

-Jim



Interesting.. Thanks!!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Sebilion on 30 Sep 2017, 02:11 pm
I switched from lg v20 to samsung galaxy note 8 and I am very disappointed with the new audio quality. I use some cheap 3 driver earphones the uiisii t8s. They are good but I need more. I need better mids and more bsss, I listen to metal and rock music so the sound I need is hard to find. Anyway, I was looking to get the LZ a4 and combine it with the sabaj da2. The problem is that I can't find emoiaze reviews for either product so all is speculation. My main concern is the sabaj da2, is it the same build quality as the smsl idea? Because it's quite cheaper. I want to be sure I'll buy something that'll last. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: *Scotty* on 30 Sep 2017, 04:34 pm
Go to the Google play store and download USB Audio Player Pro.
It may solve a lot of your problems. It is the best audio player for Android that I have found.
See link for more information.
http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-player-pro
Scotty
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 3 Oct 2017, 01:57 am
Curious what folks are using for power.  I picked up an iDefender and an iPower 5v. Unfortunately, the combo didn't work for me.  I mean, they both worked fine separately, but the Sabaj wouldn't power on with the iPower connected.  I tested the output voltage and it was right at 5.2v....so maybe the Sabaj didn't like the voltage that high.

Anyway, I returned the iPower and am looking for another solution (that's closer to right at 5v).

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 4 Oct 2017, 02:08 pm
I got my new phone with android 7.1.1 and micro-usb and a micro-usb to usb A female otg cable and the da3 works perfectly!
I even have dsd working.  It's definitely a big improvement in quality and loudness headroom over the built in headphone
jack.
here's a video showing it
https://youtu.be/cRS9AcaE7es
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 7 Oct 2017, 06:43 am
my balanced 2.5mm to dual 3pin xlr cable arrived and it looks great, but there's some kind of weird treble distortion or something..  I'll have to test further
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 8 Oct 2017, 03:17 am
I have a Paul Hynes 5v SR3 power supply coming to me.  I also found a Paul Pang USB card that I can "inject" the 5v from this power supply into.  I'll try this method as well as via the iFi iDefender.

Will be reporting back.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 8 Oct 2017, 04:08 pm
I got my new phone with android 7.1.1 and micro-usb and a micro-usb to usb A female otg cable and the da3 works perfectly!
I even have dsd working.  It's definitely a big improvement in quality and loudness headroom over the built in headphone
jack.
here's a video showing it
https://youtu.be/cRS9AcaE7es
No issue when changing to other apps? Youtube etc? If that's true than Da3 is a true winner. Still waiting for mine as an upgrade from fiio e6.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 8 Oct 2017, 08:25 pm
Couple of questions:
1) What do I need to order for Da3 if I want to hook it up to desktop computer and speakers?  I am assuming it comes standard with USB cable.  Will I need anything else?
2) Any one aware of any cheap dac based on AKM chip with similar specs?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 14 Oct 2017, 11:24 pm
Is the DA-3 any better sounding than the Fiio K-1?

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 16 Oct 2017, 11:54 pm
shadowlight if your desktop speakers use rca input you'll need a 3.5mm trs to dual rca cable like this http://ghentaudio.com/part/b01.html
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 17 Oct 2017, 05:15 am
2) Any one aware of any cheap dac based on AKM chip with similar specs?

Why?

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 17 Oct 2017, 03:49 pm
shadowlight if your desktop speakers use rca input you'll need a 3.5mm trs to dual rca cable like this http://ghentaudio.com/part/b01.html

Thank you, I was planning to use it with AudioEngine speakers.

Why?

-Jim

Two reason.  One is that I have yet to listen to an AKM based implementation and other is that so far all of the ESS based DAC I have heard I have found them to be bit bright
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 17 Oct 2017, 04:09 pm
Thank you, I was planning to use it with AudioEngine speakers.

Two reason.  One is that I have yet to listen to an AKM based implementation and other is that so far all of the ESS based DAC I have heard I have found them to be bit bright

There is no AKM equivalent of the SMSL IDEA or Sabaj DA3. SMSL does have an AKM desktop-type dac, I think it's called Sanskrit or something like that. I am not familiar with its specs.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: LesterSleepsIn on 17 Oct 2017, 05:44 pm
There is no AKM equivalent of the SMSL IDEA or Sabaj DA3. SMSL does have an AKM desktop-type dac, I think it's called Sanskrit or something like that. I am not familiar with its specs.

What about his comment "all of the ESS based DAC I have heard I have found them to be bit bright".

Have others found this to be the case?

Cheers,
Lester
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 17 Oct 2017, 05:52 pm
What about his comment "all of the ESS based DAC I have heard I have found them to be bit bright".

Have others found this to be the case?

Cheers,
Lester

I have a tendency to get earache when I listen to bright sound so I try to avoid it as much as possible.  I am still likely to end up purchasing the DAC if they do not work out I am not out a lot of cash, if I am unable to find alternate solution.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 17 Oct 2017, 06:01 pm
What about his comment "all of the ESS based DAC I have heard I have found them to be bit bright".

Have others found this to be the case?

Cheers,
Lester

Although I am partial to ESS, I have listened to plenty of other budget dacs and most importantly from a broad range of companies. In that spectrum I find ESS to be neutral/cool, but not bright. AD1955 Dacs like the Emotiva, THAT is bright and has a reputation for it. I'm not a fan. But a lot depends on implementation. The worst ESS dacs I've heard were the ODAC and Hifimediy - those were definitely bright and edgy. Otherwise, I'd say there is a reason ESS has such a big following - they hit a nice balance.

If you're partial to warm/smooth, these will not be a great fit.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: LesterSleepsIn on 17 Oct 2017, 06:48 pm
Although I am partial to ESS, I have listened to plenty of other budget dacs and most importantly from a broad range of companies. In that spectrum I find ESS to be neutral/cool, but not bright. AD1955 Dacs like the Emotiva, THAT is bright and has a reputation for it. I'm not a fan. But a lot depends on implementation. The worst ESS dacs I've heard were the ODAC and Hifimediy - those were definitely bright and edgy. Otherwise, I'd say there is a reason ESS has such a big following - they hit a nice balance.

If you're partial to warm/smooth, these will not be a great fit.

Thanks for that .. and for this thread. Yes, in fact, I am patial to warm/smooth but if these are neutral they might work. Not a big investment, as shadowlight mentioned. Anyone have thoughts on an affordable warm/smooth dac?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: fredgarvin on 18 Oct 2017, 04:37 am
Couple of questions:
1) What do I need to order for Da3 if I want to hook it up to desktop computer and speakers?  I am assuming it comes standard with USB cable.  Will I need anything else?
2) Any one aware of any cheap dac based on AKM chip with similar specs?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BREEZE-AUDIO-SU0-XMOS-U8-USB-DAC-AK4490-Headphone-amp-schiit-modi-killer-/182807654428?hash=item2a902f701c:g:4DgAAOSwrFJZ1V1l
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 18 Oct 2017, 03:00 pm
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BREEZE-AUDIO-SU0-XMOS-U8-USB-DAC-AK4490-Headphone-amp-schiit-modi-killer-/182807654428?hash=item2a902f701c:g:4DgAAOSwrFJZ1V1l

Just a note: that DAC uses the older U8 Xmos, not the newer 208 in the Idea and Sabaj. The newer XMOS play an important part in the sound quality.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 18 Oct 2017, 03:15 pm
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BREEZE-AUDIO-SU0-XMOS-U8-USB-DAC-AK4490-Headphone-amp-schiit-modi-killer-/182807654428?hash=item2a902f701c:g:4DgAAOSwrFJZ1V1l

Thx.  I will check it out.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 25 Oct 2017, 12:12 am
I purchased the Sabaj DA3 and received it today.  Installed the ASIO drivers from Sabaj's website and able to play PCM up sampled to 768 no issues, but DSD I get nothing but static, with very faint music in the background.  I am using HQPlayer on Win10 system, with unbalanced jack connected to AE 5 speakers.  I tried 44.1k x 512, 48k x 512 and couple of other lower settings.

If you have DSD working can you let me know your settings.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 25 Oct 2017, 01:34 am
I purchased the Sabaj DA3 and received it today.  Installed the ASIO drivers from Sabaj's website and able to play PCM up sampled to 768 no issues, but DSD I get nothing but static, with very faint music in the background.  I am using HQPlayer on Win10 system, with unbalanced jack connected to AE 5 speakers.  I tried 44.1k x 512, 48k x 512 and couple of other lower settings.

If you have DSD working can you let me know your settings.

Does the correct sample rate show up on the Sabaj and / or the driver icon in the tray?

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 25 Oct 2017, 01:58 am
Does the correct sample rate show up on the Sabaj and / or the driver icon in the tray?

-Jim

It sure does.  I restarted everything now it is playing 256 dsd fine and at 512 I get stuttering (my pc does not have enough power to convert).  Let's see what happens tomorrow when I try again.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 25 Oct 2017, 02:43 am
It sure does.  I restarted everything now it is playing 256 dsd fine and at 512 I get stuttering (my pc does not have enough power to convert).  Let's see what happens tomorrow when I try again.

Ok, so it sounds like the DAC is working fine.

Btw, for DSD upsampling you might want to try a different program.  I've found that foo_input_sacd (in either Foobar or JRiver) sounds VERY close to HQPlayer and is super light weight in term of system resource usage.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 25 Oct 2017, 07:44 am
Is the DA-3 any better sounding than the Fiio K-1?
Definitely sounding better than Fiio E6  :lol:
 I got my da3 yesterday and loving it. I was expecting the decrease in noise level but the increase in detail exceeded my expectations. :o
It was picky with OTG cable, I don't know why. Works without any driver problem on my Note 4 and Windows pc.
Da3 uses x2 - x3 times more battery of my Note 4 so I may make a OTG cable with charging hack following here:
https://sites.google.com/site/sonicboomworld/my-projects/otg-diagrams

Since it has no driver or noise issues with android this will be the DAC I use until I can buy a Chord Mojo. :P
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 25 Oct 2017, 01:28 pm
Ok, so it sounds like the DAC is working fine.

Btw, for DSD upsampling you might want to try a different program.  I've found that foo_input_sacd (in either Foobar or JRiver) sounds VERY close to HQPlayer and is super light weight in term of system resource usage.

-Jim

Thx Jim.  I will look into it.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 25 Oct 2017, 11:22 pm
Thx Jim.  I will look into it.

Cool - let me know if you need any help.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 26 Oct 2017, 11:14 am
Cool - let me know if you need any help.

-Jim
Will do.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 28 Nov 2017, 06:51 am
Can anyone compare sabaj da3 to chord mojo? :D
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Nov 2017, 11:23 am
this is not peanuts cheap but has anyone heard it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMSL-M9-32bit-768kHz-DSD512-AK4490x2-XMOS-HiFi-Digital-Decoder-DAC-Headphone-amp/122786069524?rt=nc&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41376%26meid%3Dc7fb771744554a4e881e13538860073a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D322861563528&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m2219
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Nov 2017, 11:27 am
andd this one?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Nov 2017, 11:28 am
i started looking atthese because i am hoping to get Xmox 208 and RCA outputs and also headphone output and also stay away from ESS
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 28 Nov 2017, 01:00 pm
andd this one?

Which one? :roll:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 28 Nov 2017, 05:39 pm
psst, best dac I have had in my headphone system in years!  No noted faults so far.  Topping D30
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 06:24 pm
psst, best dac I have had in my headphone system in years!  No noted faults so far.  Topping D30

The Topping uses the CS4398, which I agree is a great sounding chip and deserves more love. It's got a 'lively' presence to it and an engaging midrange.

Not a fan of the OPA2134 opamps the Topping uses though. Are you able to swap them?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 06:32 pm
i started looking atthese because i am hoping to get Xmox 208 and RCA outputs and also headphone output and also stay away from ESS

For greatest flexibility my thought is get one of the many XMOS 208 cards available and then you can use whatever dac you want.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Assembled-XU208-XMOS-USB-Audio-Digital-Interface-XLR-AES-fiber-coaxial/112402255126?hash=item1a2bb24d16:g:sugAAOSwR29ZEqA5

(just one of many at different price points).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 06:36 pm
Current update: still loving my DA3. Will try to make a balanced output cable for my amp and try that out. My setup sounds gorgeous, but it's really the emphasis on power supplies that took it over the top (lot of LT3045s in this case). If it's a choice between a cheap dac and a great PS vs a pricey DAC w/ stock, I'll take the former every time.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: maty on 28 Nov 2017, 06:39 pm
Master Index for Audio Hardware Reviews

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-index-for-audio-hardware-reviews.2079/

-> Topping D30 DAC Measurement and Review

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d30-dac-measurement-and-review.2016/
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jmc207 on 28 Nov 2017, 06:41 pm
The Topping uses the CS4398, which I agree is a great sounding chip and deserves more love. It's got a 'lively' presence to it and an engaging midrange.

Not a fan of the OPA2134 opamps the Topping uses though. Are you able to swap them?


The pictures I've seen of the D30 circuit board show a soldered OPA2134, though there is someone who unsoldered it and replaced it with a socket.
Title: opamp CM Impedance Distortion
Post by: maty on 28 Nov 2017, 06:46 pm
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/opamp-CM-Impedance-Distortion.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/opamp-CM-Impedance-Distortion.png)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 06:46 pm
Master Index for Audio Hardware Reviews

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-index-for-audio-hardware-reviews.2079/

-> Topping D30 DAC Measurement and Review

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d30-dac-measurement-and-review.2016/

Mmm, yeah, Amir. Whatever.

He does like the Topping though. Sounds like its headamp is the key here based on bixby's statement above.
Title: Re: opamp CM Impedance Distortion
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 06:47 pm
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/opamp-CM-Impedance-Distortion.png) (http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/opamp-CM-Impedance-Distortion.png)

m'kay.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Nov 2017, 06:49 pm
Which one? :roll:

this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/263051265833?var=562053792431

im checkling out Topping d30 right now. i dont know anythiong about that DAC chip. so far between the ones that i have heard i prefer AK4490 to any ESS but really the only sound that i really like has only been from philips good old NOS DACS. the only  reason that i am not going for another one of those is only that i want a good headphone amp and cutting edge USB right now.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: maty on 28 Nov 2017, 06:49 pm
More:

Attached measures the buffer designed by us using different operational amplifiers:

http://www.atmstore.es/en/buffer-nc500-3/

My conclusion: do not buy Burson Audio V5
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Nov 2017, 06:51 pm
D30 does not have a head amp it seems. i 1st prioraity is a decent headamp with (ideally) half watt or something like that . i want to drive some planars with it. i think im done with dynamic headphones.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Nov 2017, 06:53 pm
i dont care about DSD much at the moment, i want the XMOS usb for the fidelity it supposedly provides. i have like 5 DSD albums but i dont really care about any of them. i want something that makes my radiohead, portishead, pink floyd and leonard cohen sound good.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 06:57 pm
D30 does not have a head amp it seems. i 1st prioraity is a decent headamp with (ideally) half watt or something like that . i want to drive some planars with it. i think im done with dynamic headphones.

Ah, I misunderstood bixby's post. Thought it did. If a headamp is important, you should just buy a separate headamp. Can start with a good old CMOY mint tin on ebay if you're cash strapped.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Nov 2017, 07:00 pm
More:

Attached measures the buffer designed by us using different operational amplifiers:

http://www.atmstore.es/en/buffer-nc500-3/

My conclusion: do not buy Burson Audio V5

edited: I also returned the LKS which proved that specs mean zero.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 07:04 pm
i bought V5i last year i tried it in my LKS DA003 and i sent it back for refund. i was one of the early adopters.
I also sent the returned the LKS which proved that specs mean zero.

I think opamps are best avoided in general. Kind of like tubes, you just ended up spending a lot of money trying out one after the other, chasing your own tail. At least tubes are cool. I just a built a tangensoft MINT headamp, so I shouldn't talk, but I also had a lot of opamps sitting around for years so I put them to use.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 28 Nov 2017, 07:28 pm
As mentioned no headamp in the Topping D30.  I run it into a Magni3.  This Aprox $200 combo gives me more satisfaction than a Schiit Modi 4490 and Lake People GS-109 at about
3 times the price.

As for chips, my experience is they can sound similar in lower cost implementations but they are not the biggest factor in some higher priced dacs ultimate sound, but do have a role.  My main speaker dac (Prism Lyra 1) also has 4398 chips but should not be lumped in the same league as the Topping.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: maty on 28 Nov 2017, 07:34 pm
Opamp, better a discrete opamp like Sonic Imagery SIL 994 Enh Ticha

http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/products/Model994DiscreteOpAmp-Ticha.html

(http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/products/product_images_docs/994Enh_Discrete_HD_OpAmp/994DiscreteOpAmp.jpg)

or someone of the new opamps.

It is very important how they have been implemented in the circuit.
Title: Second harmonic preminence
Post by: maty on 28 Nov 2017, 07:42 pm
A very clean system can sound "anechoic".

That is I am interested in preamps with second harmonic preminence + clean power amp + clean DAC.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153645.msg1646998#msg1646998

Quote
I am not Mike but my idea was a preamp with second harmonic preminence, very low third harmonic and nothing else. With clean DAC (maybe the RME ADI-2 Pro - I love RME AD hard used to make vinyl rips). The sound profile would be given by the preamp.

Look at the graphs of this new DIY preamp by xrk971 + AKSA.

AKSA's Lender Preamp with 40Vpp Output

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/314563-aksas-lender-preamp-40vpp-output.html

Well it is not balanced but... the measures are so beautiful aka very clean.

Oh, you need to be logged to see the pictures. Maybe I can upload one:

[IMG] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/AKSA-Lender-Preamp-SMT-Preamp-20vpp-7kohm-47R-degen-yes-matched-6k8carbon-FB.png
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Nov 2017, 07:53 pm
As mentioned no headamp in the Topping D30.  I run it into a Magni3.  This Aprox $200 combo gives me more satisfaction than a Schiit Modi 4490 and Lake People GS-109 at about
3 times the price.

As for chips, my experience is they can sound similar in lower cost implementations but they are not the biggest factor in some higher priced dacs ultimate sound, but do have a role.  My main speaker dac (Prism Lyra 1) also has 4398 chips but should not be lumped in the same league as the Topping.

Makes sense. I'd say that's because cheaper dacs lean harder on the chip to do the hard work whereas the pricier options can afford to use the components needed to tailor the design to their needs i.e output topologies, software optimization, etc. Given enough time and resources for sure you can many any chip sound however you want.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: murphy11 on 30 Nov 2017, 01:32 am
Received my Da3 today and am wondering whether Windows Playback Advanced settings have any effect on Spotify High-Quality streaming sound. 14/44, 24/48, 32/192 etc. Whatever I set in Windows shows up on the Sabaj display but not sure if any setting is optimal or makes any difference.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 30 Nov 2017, 02:08 am
Received my Da3 today and am wondering whether Windows Playback Advanced settings have any effect on Spotify High-Quality streaming sound. 14/44, 24/48, 32/192 etc. Whatever I set in Windows shows up on the Sabaj display but not sure if any setting is optimal or makes any difference.

May just have to play around and see. W10 Creator's update made big changes to the usb audio so whatever rate you choose I believe it does some funky resampling, but it sounds excellent.

More impactful would probably be the latency and asio buffer settings with the DA3 XMOS driver.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 30 Nov 2017, 02:11 am
Thx again wushuliu for drawing our attention to this dac..  I'm using it with an RCA adapter direct to my Folsom amp and it's a great pairing.  Waiting for my sonica dac to come back after it gets modded
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 30 Nov 2017, 02:14 am
Thx again wushuliu for drawing our attention to this dac..  I'm using it with an RCA adapter direct to my Folsom amp and it's a great pairing.  Waiting for my sonica dac to come back after it gets modded

 :thumb: :drums: :beer:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 30 Nov 2017, 07:03 pm
wushuliu, thank you for your input about SABAJ Da3.  :thumb:

How would you rate Da2 vs Da3 sound-wise? Is there any difference at all (clarity, soundstage, output power, etc)?

What are the advantages of Da3 vs Da2 aside the obvious balanced output and more informative OLED display?

Also how's power consumption of Da2 vs Da3 considering the later has 2 DACs and display (even though display shouldn't consume too much considering it's size and oled tech)?

And of course how's Da2 vs DF black/red sound-wise and power-consumption-wise?

My HPs are Ety's ER-4PT/S (mostly), Koss Porta Pro and good old BD DT990.

Thanks in advance!  :)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 30 Nov 2017, 07:10 pm
Bought Da3 anyways. I'm hoping for driver updates or a root android fix. Da2 and Da3 seems to have close power usage (0.8w). Will wait and see in two weeks...

How's your experience so far? How's power consumption vs DragonFly (if you had a chance to compare)?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 1 Dec 2017, 03:24 am
...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 1 Dec 2017, 09:52 am
How's your experience so far? How's power consumption vs DragonFly (if you had a chance to compare)?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152638.msg1639537#msg1639537

It's good, using it daily with note 4. Haven't tried dragonfly red but I think wushuliu knows what he is talking about. No issues whatsoever but I still want a chord mojo  :lol: What you have is detail and a lot of decrease in noise. Dragonfly red and black use about half of what this uses in power consumption but is twice the price  8) (I know sabaj is 0.8W, dragonfly black uses <100ma at 5V, , I don't know about dragonfly red but people say it's same as black but I'm not so sure :oops:)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 1 Dec 2017, 01:31 pm
Murphy I believe Spotify just outputs sound via standard directsound driver so it will resample Spotify audio which is 16/44.1KHz to whatever you have set in advanced playback settings..  I leave mine set to 24/44.1
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 1 Dec 2017, 04:39 pm
Received my Da3 today and am wondering whether Windows Playback Advanced settings have any effect on Spotify High-Quality streaming sound. 14/44, 24/48, 32/192 etc. Whatever I set in Windows shows up on the Sabaj display but not sure if any setting is optimal or makes any difference.

Since Spotify is playing an MP3 file and since all mp3 files are 16/44k you should set the windows settings and your sound card to 16/44k.  There is no evidence I have found of any magic Windows 10 upsampling that would occur with those settings.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: murphy11 on 1 Dec 2017, 08:46 pm
Thx all for the recommendations - love this community.

Got Sinatra Christmas CD from Best Buy for $3.99 and 6 months free Tidal streaming. (expires today jump on it!)

Tidal seems to stream 16bit 44.1 CD quality which is what I will be using instead of Spotify premium. Should I stay at 16 or 24bit  44.1hz when streaming Tidal or set Windows settings higher?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 1 Dec 2017, 09:36 pm
I would set it at 16/44k.  No sense having windows do extra processing on the fly to add 8 zeros to the stream since it will not be heard anyway.  I think even if you have a 24 bit dac it will do the adding of zeros to the stream.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 1 Dec 2017, 09:50 pm
Thx all for the recommendations - love this community.

Got Sinatra Christmas CD from Best Buy for $3.99 and 6 months free Tidal streaming. (expires today jump on it!)

Tidal seems to stream 16bit 44.1 CD quality which is what I will be using instead of Spotify premium. Should I stay at 16 or 24bit  44.1hz when streaming Tidal or set Windows settings higher?

Dude try out whatever setting you want and just judge for yourself. That's the joy of the hobby. Have fun.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 2 Dec 2017, 12:42 am
Ah, I misunderstood bixby's post. Thought it did. If a headamp is important, you should just buy a separate headamp. Can start with a good old CMOY mint tin on ebay if you're cash strapped.

so it looks like that separate DAc and headamp is the way to go. i have heard CMOY and im not too excited about that prospect.
on the other hand little dot and dark voice head amps are lookiing promising. Im curuious how they would pair with planar phones
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 2 Dec 2017, 02:23 am
so it looks like that separate DAc and headamp is the way to go. i have heard CMOY and im not too excited about that prospect.
on the other hand little dot and dark voice head amps are lookiing promising. Im curuious how they would pair with planar phones

In that case, if that's the budget you have then I once again point you to XRK, since he sells fully built amps as well. Keep in mind his amps would go multiples times over if they were typical retail:

https://headfonics.com/2017/06/the-class-a-nhb-pocket-amp-by-xrk-audio/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pocket-Class-A-Headphone-Amplifier-Desktop-Amplifier-NHB-Edition/222479147739?hash=item33ccca62db:g:YVIAAOSwWWxY9YfA
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 2 Dec 2017, 04:04 am
so it looks like that separate DAc and headamp is the way to go. i have heard CMOY and im not too excited about that prospect.
on the other hand little dot and dark voice head amps are lookiing promising. Im curuious how they would pair with planar phones

Having owned a La Figaro (improved DV) and heard a DV SE, I would say not a great match with planars.  Actually not a great match with anything for the money you would spend, unless you want rolled off highs and wooly bass.  Lots better stuff now to power planars and other great cans.  Magni 3 for example.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 2 Dec 2017, 11:15 am
The es9018q2c includes the amplifier - it's an all in one package by ESS, so I am guessing voltage via the buttons. Archimago made no mention of reduced bits in his measurements. So that's another nice thing about these ESS mobile chips - you don't have to worry as much about some dodgy amp section being added since they take care of that for you...
I remember well how Fiio managed to screw up the beautiful sound of Cirrus Logic CS4398 chip in X3 2nd gen model with some ugly amp section (or custom tuning maybe). Plain line out was sounding so open clear and beautiful, while HP out completely destroyed all of that by scooping mid-range, adding some excessive low freq boost and some dirty coloring to the sound. Shame really.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 2 Dec 2017, 11:42 am
It's good, using it daily with note 4. Haven't tried dragonfly red but I think wushuliu knows what he is talking about. No issues whatsoever but I still want a chord mojo  :lol: What you have is detail and a lot of decrease in noise. Dragonfly red and black use about half of what this uses in power consumption but is twice the price  8) (I know sabaj is 0.8W, dragonfly black uses <100ma at 5V, , I don't know about dragonfly red but people say it's same as black but I'm not so sure :oops:)
How fast you battery percentage go down per average 3-4 min song? Also how fast your fully charge battery goes out of juice with nonstop listening vs regular use with no DAC attached? Some simple subjective statistics should be good enough to understand the power consumption impact of these DACs I guess. :)

Did you have a chance to compare Idea/Da2 to Da3 ?  Is there any real noticeable improvement in sound?

Da3 uses x2 - x3 times more battery of my Note 4 so I may make a OTG cable with charging hack following here:
https://sites.google.com/site/sonicboomworld/my-projects/otg-diagrams
Finding a suitable angled microUSB to microUSB OTG Y-cable with charging capabilities is a challenge on its own, but it's a must-have for long distance traveling in particular. Any idea where to get one?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 3 Dec 2017, 08:45 am
How fast you battery percentage go down per average 3-4 min song? Also how fast your fully charge battery goes out of juice with nonstop listening vs regular use with no DAC attached? Some simple subjective statistics should be good enough to understand the power consumption impact of these DACs I guess. :)

Did you have a chance to compare Idea/Da2 to Da3 ?  Is there any real noticeable improvement in sound?
Finding a suitable angled microUSB to microUSB OTG Y-cable with charging capabilities is a challenge on its own, but it's a must-have for long distance traveling in particular. Any idea where to get one?

I sort of compared it to normal listening (x2-x3 battery drain of da3) I will test the battery percentage out for you. Power saving helps too. Just buy a separate battery until you sort things out!

I looked around for angled micro usbs with or without usb-c's. I couldn't find any that won't ruin my note 4's micro usb socket while walking, running etc...

Long story short you have to make your own cables:

1. For otg + charging: DONT! ruin your OTG cable while trying to do it. OTG cables come 4 5 pins already shortcircuited.
What I bought 2 days ago is:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/IMC-Hot-10-Pcs-Micro-USB-Type-A-Male-5-Pin-Connectors-Plug/32438319581.html

and I already have 100k resistors (10 of them for 10 cents) and usb cables.

2. If you want to make your own usb c to micro usb cable just buy a couple of these and cut an otg cable and solder it:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-3-1-Connector-Type-C-Male-to-USB-3-0-Female-Converter-Data-Adapter-Convenience/32828660364.html

you can make any micro usb angled if you are willing to silicone it later : :cry:

This what I use: https://ibb.co/m8eLCw

I used more silicone on da3's part for the disconnects that randomly occur without it. I'm going to make a new one with otg charging hack with 100k resistor and also add a power socket using this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/IMC-Hot-20-Pcs-Micro-USB-Type-B-Female-Socket-180-Degree-5-Pin-SMD-SMT/32438682712.html

So I can add charging whenever I want without changing the cable  :D I hope that hack works. Will update on it if you want in a couple of weeks I think :/

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 3 Dec 2017, 09:34 am
I sort of compared it to normal listening (x2-x3 battery drain of da3) I will test the battery percentage out for you. Power saving helps too. Just buy a separate battery until you sort things out!

x2-x3 battery drain of da3 - that doesn't sound good at all, with Dragonfly it's just slightly more than regular usage (as I've read somewhere, not my personal experience).

I looked around for angled micro usbs with or without usb-c's. I couldn't find any that won't ruin my note 4's micro usb socket while walking, running etc...

Long story short you have to make your own cables...

I'm sort of ok with soldering, but that silicon just hurts my eyes and doesn't look solid at all. :roll:

Not sure if there's a factory OTG Y cable that we need at least there's this one (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51HKLkhS2ML._SL1000_.jpg) on amazon.

Product description:
High quality Original USB 2.0 Micro-B HOST OTG CABLE
It's a standard USB Micro-B HOST Cable , need your machine support usb host OTG function .
FOR : Samsung S2 i9100 S3 i9300 i9220 9250 XOOM A500 and more use.
Can use MOUSE KEYBOARD GPS USB DISK and more ......
The Micro-B plug is for OTG device.and also for Power charge.
There is Micro USB female power connector, Can charge the extral USB device , like usb flash disk, usb hard disk.
The disk format must be FAT32 if you connect the storage.
connector: USB 2.0 A female to micro 5 pin male left 90 degree angled + micro 5pin female

The question now is if it will charge the phone or just supply the DAC with power? Obviously most if not all of these Y OTG cables provide external power to an attached peripheral device (read: external HDD). Also quite few android kernels support charging in "Host mode".  Hence I'm not very optimistic about it all honestly.  :?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 3 Dec 2017, 11:48 am
x2-x3 battery drain of da3 - that doesn't sound good at all, with Dragonfly it's just slightly more than regular usage (as I've read somewhere, not my personal experience).

I'm sort of ok with soldering, but that silicon just hurts my eyes and doesn't look solid at all. :roll:

Not sure if there's a factory OTG Y cable that we need at least there's this one on amazon:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51HKLkhS2ML._SL1000_.jpg)
Product description:
High quality Original USB 2.0 Micro-B HOST OTG CABLE
It's a standard USB Micro-B HOST Cable , need your machine support usb host OTG function .
FOR : Samsung S2 i9100 S3 i9300 i9220 9250 XOOM A500 and more use.
Can use MOUSE KEYBOARD GPS USB DISK and more ......
The Micro-B plug is for OTG device.and also for Power charge.
There is Micro USB female power connector, Can charge the extral USB device , like usb flash disk, usb hard disk.
The disk format must be FAT32 if you connect the storage.
connector: USB 2.0 A female to micro 5 pin male left 90 degree angled + micro 5pin female

The question now is if it will charge the phone or just supply the DAC with power? Obviously most if not all of these Y OTG cables provide external power to an attached peripheral device (read: external HDD). Also quite few android kernels support charging in "Host mode".  Hence I'm not very optimistic about it all honestly.  :?
****************************
Note 4 from fully charged:
Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode
30 minute (5-minute repeats) full volume listening: 98% (very close to 99%)

Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode + sabaj  da3:
30 minute (5-minute repeats) equal volume listening: 93%
****************************

I think it definitely worth it but I always choose quality over quantity :D I had 0 driver issues with da3 you should consider the possibility of that too with other Chinese versions.

You can use black silicone for aesthetics or top it with cable heat shrink and cut unnecessary parts.
Try that cable but I doubt it will work. I tried not that one but very similar ones that just powered da3 or just charged wi otg.
I will probably plug one of these for power when I have to... to my soon-to-be cable :D :
(https://is.alicdn.com/img/pb/449/535/640/640535449_822.jpg)

Also you can buy thicker but bigger capacity battery for your cellphone that comes with its own cover.


Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 3 Dec 2017, 12:22 pm
Note 4 from fully charged:
Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode
30 minute (5-minute repeats) full volume listening: 98% (very close to 99%)

Note 4 battery averages:
Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode + sabaj  da3:
30 minute (5-minute repeats) equal volume listening: 93%

I think it definitely worth it but I always choose quality over quantity :D I had 0 driver issues with da3 you should consider the possibility of that too with other Chinese versions.
Thanks! It's almost the same level of consumption with or without Da3 attached (if i'm reading it right) which is weird. I guess you're using ViperFX at max quality, hence such a fast battery discharge.

Try that cable but I doubt it will work. I tried not that one but very similar ones that just powered da3 or just charged and no otg.
Yes, that's what it is. All of Y OTG cables are designed to provide external power to an attached peripheral device, not the host.

Meanwhile for Samsung phones there's SMARTDOCK mode (https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s3/general/hw-mod-usb-otg-charging-galaxy-s3-t1953061) that enables a Host mode + charging at around 900mA at the same time! Samsung Multimedia Dock (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WEQD2C6) is one of such devices proving that possibility. Also it's been proved to work with Note 4 and external DAC (https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61733021&postcount=17)!

Maybe there's an OTG cable out there based on the same logic for Samsung phones that needs to be found or made...  :wink:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 3 Dec 2017, 12:55 pm
Thanks! It's almost the same level of consumption with or without Da3 attached (if i'm reading it right) which is weird. I guess you're using ViperFX at max quality, hence such a fast battery discharge.
Yes, that's what it is. All of Y OTG cables are designed to provide external power to an attached peripheral device, not the host.

Meanwhile for Samsung phones there's SMARTDOCK mode (https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s3/general/hw-mod-usb-otg-charging-galaxy-s3-t1953061) that enables a Host mode + charging at around 900mA at the same time! Samsung Multimedia Dock (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WEQD2C6) is one of such devices proving that possibility. Also it's been proved to work with Note 4 and external DAC (https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=61733021&postcount=17)!

Maybe there's an OTG cable out there based on the same logic for Samsung phones that needs to be found or made...  :wink:

No. Without Da3 charge went down 100% to 98% in 30 minutes. With Da3 charge went down 100% to 93% in 30 minutes! :(

Let's see if resistor hack works :D It plays with that host mode (4th pin). For silicone aesthatics you can use heat shrink: https://ibb.co/fhpvUb
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 3 Dec 2017, 01:32 pm
No. Without Da3 charge went down 100% to 98% in 30 minutes. With Da3 charge went down 100% to 93% in 30 minutes! :(
Oh, yes, I've read it wrong. Well, not too bad still. Thank you! :thumb:

Let's see if resistor hack works :D It plays with that host mode (4th pin). For silicone aesthatics you can use heat shrink: https://ibb.co/fhpvUb
Best of luck with that hack, just don't burn your phone's motherboard, please! :roll: Also check the info about SMARTDOCK mode, I've provided in my previous post. It's a guaranteed to work option since it's official by Samsung, hence no hardware or software/kernel limitations.

Btw there's an adapter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MOQFUQM/) that does exactly what we need but for a hefty price and no guarantee of working with Samsung phones. Only several Samsung tablets are officially supported.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 3 Dec 2017, 07:01 pm
For that price I can buy a dock and destroy it to make it portable. The trick will be finding the right resistance to force it to dock mode :wink:
(https://srs-assist.com/NEW%20EBAY%20MOBILE%20RESPONSIVE%202017/images/emulator%20image%20hyperlinked/AIRBAG%20RESISTANCE%20FINDER%20TOOL%20SRS%20ASSIST%20RESISTANCE%20EMULATOR%20SIMULATOR%202%20%20BUTTON%20HORIZONTAL%20VERSION.jpg)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 5 Dec 2017, 08:20 pm
Just a reminder to those who may not have the thread all the way through but these dacs are finicky with portable and possibly Mac devices, especially the DSD. I use them strictly for desktop PC so no issues. But android/Mac folks may have problems.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 6 Dec 2017, 05:30 pm
Ok, I've got the smaller or shall I say the micro DAC Sabaj Da2 (http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=73)!  8)

This tiny piece of tech freaks me out, really! I couldn't believe how small it actually is! It sounds absolutely great for the price! Clean sound full of clarity, punch, wide soundstage, tonal neutrality, etc... Powerful enough to drive most HPs under 300 Ohm! And damn it! It really does play @ freaking 768000Hz 32bit resolution! :o :o :o Unbelievable!

I've briefly testes it using ASIO drivers (http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/services.asp?id=73) with foobar2000 1.3.17 (http://www.foobar2000.org/) on Win10 ultrabook with SoX Resampler 0.8.3 (https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,67373.0.html) for PCM upsamling and and SACD Decoder 1.0.11 (https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/) for DSD files - all perfect! The led is changing according to the stream type and sample rate. There are no glitches or other issues with the sound whatsoever under extreme max settings or any other settings! :thumb:

I'll test it later with Android and iPad and let you know the result. Stay tuned!  :lol:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 7 Dec 2017, 11:43 am
Alright, Da2 works almost flawlessly with my old Samsung Note 3 (Snapdragon 800) (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_3-5665.php) running a slightly modified stock Samsung ROM (https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-3/development/rom-qs-n9005-lp-t3037655) (Android 5.0). No noise, no glitches, all fine with the stock player and all others.

Here are some impressions about the ones with their own drivers:
Onkyo HF Player (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onkyo.jp.musicplayer) - fast and stable, has a real-time PCM to native DSD512 converter! No cue support, no gapless, no network features.
Neutron (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.neutroncode.mp) - supports almost all formats and network options, plays files with embedded cue, has gapless playback, no PCM to DSD conversion.
USB Audio Player PRO (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro) - works fine, but cannot fastseek 192kHz tracks for some reason, has network options, no PCM to DSD conversion.
Poweramp (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.audioplayer) - not bitperfect, always re-samples, way too much glitching, no network options.
HibyMusic (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music) - no sound, just endless clicking.

A bit more about the features and sound:
- this tiny DAC accepts native DSD stream (non-DoP) up to DSD512
- sounds beautiful in DSD mode, adds some kind of magical 3D effect and glow to the music
- comparing to laptop & smartphone - a major upgrade, comparing to the old Cowon iAudio7 (https://www.cnet.com/products/cowon-iaudio-7/review/) Wolfson WM8731L chip (https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/DataSheets/WM8731_8731L.pdf) - not that much but still an upgrade especially in DSD mode + all HiRes possibilities and output power.
- ESS SABRE (http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/products/sabre-digital-analog-converters/sabre-hifi-mobile-dacs/sabre-hifi-stereo-integrated-dacs/sabre9018q2c/) is one punchy beast! The sound is strait to your ears/face and it's razor sharp when it comes to details - every sound is very well defined and clear.
- this is not a warm-sounding DAC, be warned, but rather very well balanced. Wolfson WM8731L is quite midrangeee in comparison, hence a bit more open sounding and a bit warmer and less punchy, less extreme highs and lows.

The bad:
- the unit warms up quite well but nothing extreme here.
- switching from max resolution 768kHz to anything lower will produce nothing but clicking until re-plug. Might be foobar-related gotta check with JRiver (https://www.jriver.com/).
- supplied cables are very cheap and seem non-durable.

The worst:
- my unit has a hardware issue with the microUSB port. It gets disconnected easily by any slight movement. Hence not usable on the go and probably will die very soon. I've tried several USB cables to make sure it's a socket problem. Gotta return/replace it. Donno if I shall get Da3 instead, any suggestions anyone?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 7 Dec 2017, 03:35 pm
da3 uses usb-c port so you might like that.  it works fine with usb otb with my moto gs5 plus with android 7 and neutron
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 7 Dec 2017, 04:02 pm
Alright, Da2 works almost flawlessly with my old Samsung Note 3 (Snapdragon 800) (https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_3-5665.php) running a slightly modified stock Samsung ROM (https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-note-3/development/rom-qs-n9005-lp-t3037655) (Android 5.0). No noise, no glitches, all fine with the stock player and all others.

Here are some impressions about the ones with their own drivers:
Onkyo HF Player (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onkyo.jp.musicplayer) - fast and stable, has a real-time PCM to native DSD512 convertor! No cue support, no gapless, no network features.
Neutron (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.neutroncode.mp) - supports almost all formats and network options, plays files with embedded cue, has gapless playback, no PCM to DSD conversion.
USB Audio Player PRO (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro) - works fine, but cannot fastseek 192kHz tracks for some reason, has network options, no PCM to DSD conversion.
Poweramp (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.maxmpz.audioplayer) - not bitperfect, always re-samples, way too much glitching, no network options.
HibyMusic (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music) - no sound, just endless clicking.

A bit more about the features and sound:
- this tiny DAC accepts native DSD stream (non-DoP) up to DSD512
- sounds beautiful in DSD mode, adds some kind of magical 3D effect and glow to the music
- comparing to laptop & smartphone - a major upgrade, comparing to the old Cowon iAudio7 (https://www.cnet.com/products/cowon-iaudio-7/review/) Wolfson WM8731L chip (https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/pub/Main/DataSheets/WM8731_8731L.pdf) - not that much but still an upgrade especially in DSD mode + all HiRes possibilities and output power.
- ESS SABRE (http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/products/sabre-digital-analog-converters/sabre-hifi-mobile-dacs/sabre-hifi-stereo-integrated-dacs/sabre9018q2c/) is one punchy beast! The sound is strait to your ears/face and it's razor sharp when it comes to details - every sound is very well defined and clear.
- this is not a warm-sounding DAC, be warned, but rather very well balanced. Wolfson WM8731L is quite midrangeee in comparison, hence a bit more open sounding and a bit warmer and less punchy, less extreme highs and lows.

The bad:
- the unit warms up quite well but nothing extreme here.
- switching from max resolution 768kHz to anything lower will produce nothing but clicking until re-plug. Might be foobar-related gotta check with JRiver (https://www.jriver.com/).
- supplied cables are very cheap and seem non-durable.

The worst:
- my unit has a hardware issue with the microUSB port. It gets disconnected easily by any slight movement. Hence not usable on the go and probably will die very soon. I've tried several USB cables to make sure it's a socket problem. Gotta return/replace it. Donno if I shall get Da3 instead, any suggestions anyone?
If you cant return it and don't want to open it... Black Silicone it! (other colors get dirty very quickly) There is no other reliable way that I know of.  With Note 4 Android 6 Sabaj Da3:

Onkyo HF Player - works fine
Neutron - no problem :D
USB Audio Player PRO -  fine, can fast track 352.8k dsd,  I have no idea to pcm to Dsd convert :D
Poweramp - re-samples, no glitches
HibyMusic - works, downsamples (or up) to 192khz

da3 uses usb-c port so you might like that.  it works fine with usb otb with my moto gs5 plus with android 7 and neutron

Da3 can also have the port issue if your usb-C doesn't click. My micro usb to usb-c clicks but my usb to usb-c doesn't clicks into it:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172435)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 7 Dec 2017, 05:22 pm
Donno if I shall get Da3 instead, any suggestions anyone?

Thank you for the detailed feedback on the portables. VERY helpful. I do have a spare unopened new in box DA3 if you want one.

For those having trouble with DSD via phones/tablets, etc. there are some helpful tips in the comment section of Archimago's SMSL Idea review.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 7 Dec 2017, 07:31 pm
.... there are some helpful tips in the comment section of Archimago's SMSL Idea review.
Please for a link for us who are not following. :(
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 7 Dec 2017, 07:50 pm
Please for a link for us who are not following. :(

The link is in the very first post of this thread  :wink:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 8 Dec 2017, 05:58 pm
The link is in the very first post of this thread  :wink:
Ohh, I seeee :duh:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 8 Dec 2017, 09:36 pm
da3 uses usb-c port so you might like that.  it works fine with usb otb with my moto gs5 plus with android 7 and neutron
Da2 should be fine as well. I'm just being unlucky with a bad quality control of my unit...

If you cant return it and don't want to open it... Black Silicone it! (other colors get dirty very quickly) There is no other reliable way that I know of.
I can return/replace it (amazon prime). I will try to open it up to check what's inside... But I have to do something asap because the USB-issue affects my experience with the unit quite badly.
With Note 4 Android 6 Sabaj Da3:
Onkyo HF Player - works fine
Neutron - no problem :D
USB Audio Player PRO -  fine, can fast track 352.8k dsd,  I have no idea to pcm to Dsd convert :D
Poweramp - re-samples, no glitches
HibyMusic - works, downsamples (or up) to 192khz
Good!
In Onkyo check the DSD512 conversion/upscaling - no need to thank me... ;)
USB Audio Player PRO - try fastseeking any 192kHz 24 bit tracks and report pls.
Neutron - optimal choice indeed, but no upscaling/PCM2DSD
Poweramp - use the latest beta with HD support (http://forum.powerampapp.com/topic/8810-poweramp-alpha-build-703704/) and report.
HibyMusic - couldn't make it play a thing.
Da3 can also have the port issue if your usb-C doesn't click. My micro usb to usb-c clicks but my usb to usb-c doesn't clicks into it:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=172435)
In my case the port just not soldered well I guess or way too loose.
Thank you for the detailed feedback on the portables. VERY helpful. I do have a spare unopened new in box DA3 if you want one.
Thanks! I'm not sure if I really want one. I love how small Da2 is. Not sure if Da3 can prove its superiority in sound quality to justify the switch and additional 50% of Da2 price (I don't need the balance output).
Also please share your experience based on these questions (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152638.msg1647810#msg1647810)? Thanks.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 8 Dec 2017, 10:37 pm
Tried Da2 with my old iPad 3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_(3rd_generation)) running the latest (for that device) iOS 9.5.3 and an official Camera Connection Kit (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003RV3N1C) - all fine!

Stock Player - plays all officialy supported formats with no extra features.
foobar2000 (https://itunes.apple.com/app/id1072807669) - plays almost all formats including HiRes and DSD but resampled to 48kHz (I guess)
Onkyo HF Player (https://itunes.apple.com/app/id704139896) - uses its own driver (or whatever it is in iOS) and plays all files in native format or upscaled if you wish to.
HibyMusic (https://itunes.apple.com/app/id1048838844) - freeware HiRes player that does almost everything Onkyo HF Player does including DSD (DoP). And really works well in iOS.

Tried Samsung S7 (latest official Nougat ROM) with Da2 - all great as well, no issues, no clicking, no buzz, no noise etc...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 9 Dec 2017, 10:44 am
Da2 should be fine as well. I'm just being unlucky with a bad quality control of my unit...
I can return/replace it (amazon prime). I will try to open it up to check what's inside... But I have to do something asap because the USB-issue affects my experience with the unit quite badly.Good!
In Onkyo check the DSD512 conversion/upscaling - no need to thank me... ;)
USB Audio Player PRO - try fastseeking any 192kHz 24 bit tracks and report pls.
Neutron - optimal choice indeed, but no upscaling/PCM2DSD
Poweramp - use the latest beta with HD support (http://forum.powerampapp.com/topic/8810-poweramp-alpha-build-703704/) and report.
HibyMusic - couldn't make it play a thing.In my case the port just not soldered well I guess or way too loose.Thanks! I'm not sure if I really want one. I love how small Da2 is. Not sure if Da3 can prove its superiority in sound quality to justify the switch and additional 50% of Da2 price (I don't need the balance output).
Also please share your experience based on these questions (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152638.msg1647810#msg1647810)? Thanks.
Usb Audio Player PRO - Fast seeking 192kHz 24 bit works fine
Poweramp - Tried 703 works fine but upsamples :/
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: biriken0915 on 14 Dec 2017, 12:52 pm
Thank you for your suggestion.
Now I post my result.

SABJA DA3 + Shanling M1 + TMB4K + SE-MHR5(2.5mm BALANCED)
50g + 60g  + 100g
After 3hr start to play, M1 bat indicator is still full.
 



****************************
Note 4 from fully charged:
Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode
30 minute (5-minute repeats) full volume listening: 98% (very close to 99%)

Koss porta pro + airplane mode + power-saving + viper4android force mode + sabaj  da3:
30 minute (5-minute repeats) equal volume listening: 93%
****************************

I think it definitely worth it but I always choose quality over quantity :D I had 0 driver issues with da3 you should consider the possibility of that too with other Chinese versions.

You can use black silicone for aesthetics or top it with cable heat shrink and cut unnecessary parts.
Try that cable but I doubt it will work. I tried not that one but very similar ones that just powered da3 or just charged wi otg.
I will probably plug one of these for power when I have to... to my soon-to-be cable :D :
(https://is.alicdn.com/img/pb/449/535/640/640535449_822.jpg)

Also you can buy thicker but bigger capacity battery for your cellphone that comes with its own cover.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 15 Dec 2017, 09:01 am
Thank you for your suggestion.
Now I post my result.

SABJA DA3 + Shanling M1 + TMB4K + SE-MHR5(2.5mm BALANCED)
50g + 60g  + 100g
After 3hr start to play, M1 bat indicator is still full.

How's SE-MHR5 with Da3 balanced VS unbalanced? Is it possible for you to compare?

Why would you use Da3 with M1? Is it so noticeably better than AK4452+MAX97220 of M1?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 15 Dec 2017, 10:23 am
Some additional feedback about SQ of Sabaj Da2 in comparison to old Cowon iAudio 7 (Wolfson WM8731L) and Apple iPod Nano 4th Gen (Cirrus Logic CS42L58):

- unbelievably low background noise, actually I cannot spot any with my beloved and quite analytical Etymotic Research ER-4P (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004CXBJ6A/) unlike i7 and iPod, where the bg noise is very obvious.
- very detailed, clean, clear and punchy sound in comparison to both - a low-mid boosted WM8731L (warm and open, less detailed and refined) and an upper-mid boosted CS42L58 (lively Cirrus Logic sound signature midrange but a bit thin sounding)
- definitely sounds better in DSD mode probably due to SABRE9018Q2C not being a R-2R multi-bit DAC, hence constant in-DAC conversion and no real BitPerfect PCM playback as most DACs on the market. :roll:

also:
- HP output is much stronger than i7 and iPod.
- consumes less power than Da3 (0.5W vs 0.8W).
- volume always resets to around 50% on re-plug.
- matches Ety's ER-4P really well.
- works really great with Onkyo HF Player (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.onkyo.jp.musicplayer), especially using a built-in real-time high-precision PCM to native DSD 5.6 MHz conversion!

Btw since there's no manual on the official site I've scanned one! So here's a Sabaj Da2 manual:

(https://preview.ibb.co/j2hXQR/sabaj_da2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ekM3X6)

For Da3's manual click here (http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/services.asp?id=74).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: biriken0915 on 15 Dec 2017, 11:50 am
>>How's SE-MHR5 with Da3 balanced VS unbalanced? Is it possible for you to compare?
Sorry, SE-MHR5 contains 2.5mm balanced cable only.
Comparing with SE-MS7BT (Balanced), I think that the resolution clearly exceeds (Personal opinion to the last.)
>>Why would you use Da3 with M1?
Although M1 can play only up to DSD 128 by itself, but it can outputs DSD 256,512(Amazing!!!) without difficulty to the outside from USB.(FW4.1)
>>Is it so noticeably better than AK4452+MAX97220 of M1?
I think that there is an effect of balance connection and it will not be comparable.(Personal opinion to the last, too.)

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 15 Dec 2017, 04:14 pm
>>Why would you use Da3 with M1?
Although M1 can play only up to DSD 128 by itself, but it can outputs DSD 256,512(Amazing!!!) without difficulty to the outside from USB.(FW4.1)
M1 converts DSD stream to PCM to play but that makes no sense because with Delta-Sigma type of DAC like M1 has it's gonna convert DSD to PCM by software and then DAC chip will convert PCM to DSD to play because it's a native mode for any Delta-Sigma DAC.  8)  Da2/Da3 are capable of playing native DSD stream up to DSD512 and actually do sound better in DSD mode, give it a try... ;)

>>Is it so noticeably better than AK4452+MAX97220 of M1?
I think that there is an effect of balance connection and it will not be comparable.(Personal opinion to the last, too.)
Never had a chance to try and compare a balanced set of HPs myself but have read that it's not really dramatic or at least should not be night and day difference. Some other say it's a vast improvement - go figure...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: biriken0915 on 15 Dec 2017, 05:24 pm
>>M1 converts DSD stream to PCM to play but that makes no sense because with Delta-Sigma type of DAC like M1 has it's gonna convert DSD to PCM by >>software and then DAC chip will convert PCM to DSD to play because it's a native mode for any Delta-Sigma DAC.
Thank you for your advice.

On the other hand, Shanling says in the release notes of FW 4.1 as follows.
                     "2. Added the DSD native digital output mode."
Does this mean that it is a pseudo NATIVE DSD due to the characteristics of the pointed DAC chip?
I do not know when it will be answered but I tried throwing a confirmation to VENDOR as well.

Regards,

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 20 Dec 2017, 04:31 am
My topping D30 has a defect. 

When presented with low rumbling bass it distorts badly like an amp clipping.  It is repeatable and amp, headphones, speakers have been ruled out.  It is not a particularly loud passage so hard to believe a 0db event or an over.

For the record the input is usb using asio.  We'll see how well the ebay seller stands behind this product.

EDIT 12-20 ebay seller is cybereveryday.  Advertised the dac as being USA stock shipping from Los Angeles.  Now to return the item wants me to pre-pay shipping to CHINA.  Still working on a refund.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 20 Dec 2017, 11:01 am
On the other hand, Shanling says in the release notes of FW 4.1 as follows.
"2. Added the DSD native digital output mode."
Does this mean that it is a pseudo NATIVE DSD due to the characteristics of the pointed DAC chip?
I do not know when it will be answered but I tried throwing a confirmation to VENDOR as well.

This means M1 can now stream native DSD from USB port to an external DAC, like Da2/3, Mojo, etc...

My topping D30 has a defect.  We'll see how well the ebay seller stands behind this product.

Best of luck with that   8)

Btw how do you compare the sound of Da2/3 vs D30?

I used to have E-MU 1616m (http://www.creative.com/emu/products/product.aspx?pid=19007) some years ago and really enjoyed the open and sweet sound of CS4398 via balanced connection to monitors or via HP output - very musical chip, amazing for jazz, general acoustic music, classical stuff! I hated what Fiio did to it in X3 2nd gen DAP HP out - completely destroying the very best sound characteristics of CS4398 with poor amp selection or/and circuit. Line out wasn't affected though and sounded great as expected.

Honestly, I cannot share the same level of satisfaction with Da2/3's SABRE9018Q2C even though I really enjoy the absence of BG noise and how clean, fast and punchy the sound is but a bit cold, mat and fatiguing at the same time.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 22 Dec 2017, 11:14 pm
I have just received my DA3 and amazed on the quality of the sound. However a key reason for the purchase was to try DSD512 native. I am using Daphile and can only get DoP DSD256. Do I need a firmware update and if so can someone please point me to the download location.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 22 Dec 2017, 11:48 pm
not sure it supports dsd512.  I know the xmos usb receiver chip they use does but not sure about the sabre dac chip.  let us know if you get it working!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 24 Dec 2017, 05:55 am
I received a modified version of daphile and can confirm daphile WILL support native dsd512. The sound is incredible for the price but you need a good CPU. I use an i3 8100.  Hopefully the daphile update will be included in the next beta.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 24 Dec 2017, 06:07 am
I received a modified version of daphile and can confirm daphile WILL support native dsd512. The sound is incredible for the price but you need a good CPU. I use an i3 8100.  Hopefully the daphile update will be included in the next beta.

Does it upsample?  Says native dsd512....

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 24 Dec 2017, 07:38 am
Daphile upsamples all music to DSD512 for native dsd512 processing by the Sabah da3.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 24 Dec 2017, 05:11 pm
Is it possible to x3 da3 for 5.1 system? or am I just silly? :lol:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 24 Dec 2017, 05:38 pm
Is it possible to x3 da3 for 5.1 system? or am I just silly? :lol:
How will you split a digital USB signal into 3 parts??? :shake:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 24 Dec 2017, 09:47 pm
How will you split a digital USB signal into 3 parts??? :shake:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 29 Dec 2017, 07:36 pm
My topping D30 has a defect. 

When presented with low rumbling bass it distorts badly like an amp clipping.  It is repeatable and amp, headphones, speakers have been ruled out.  It is not a particularly loud passage so hard to believe a 0db event or an over.

For the record the input is usb using asio.  We'll see how well the ebay seller stands behind this product.

EDIT 12-20 ebay seller is cybereveryday.  Advertised the dac as being USA stock shipping from Los Angeles.  Now to return the item wants me to pre-pay shipping to CHINA.  Still working on a refund.

EDIT 12-27 - Seller issued refund.  Funny several different sellers offering popular Chinese goods state they ship from LA.  Another seller with similar but different name has some negative feedback on another item, whose box was wrapped entirely in black tape for shipment just like my dac, coincidence or are multiple sellers using the same LA warehouse.  Or is it the same seller using different names.  Be careful out there.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 31 Dec 2017, 12:05 pm
SMSL released an "answer" to Sabaj's Da3 - dual Sabre DAC with balanced HP output and a built-in battery - SMSL IQ (http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=142)

Currently available for $139.99 @ amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078Q5Y3YH)

Also there's a new windows driver for XMOS based devices - 4.38.0 (http://www.smsl-audio.com/Upload/download/20171228140523307.zip)

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 31 Dec 2017, 01:53 pm
SMSL released an "answer" to Sabaj's Da3 - dual Sabre DAC with balanced HP output and a built-in battery - SMSL IQ (http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=142)....

Happy New Year!

The clash starts - we expect the winner. :wink:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173591)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 31 Dec 2017, 08:39 pm
SMSL released an "answer" to Sabaj's Da3 - dual Sabre DAC with balanced HP output and a built-in battery - SMSL IQ (http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=142)

Currently available for $139.99 @ amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078Q5Y3YH)

Also there's a new windows driver for XMOS based devices - 4.38.0 (http://www.smsl-audio.com/Upload/download/20171228140523307.zip)

Happy New Year!

Wow, it seems to be exactly the Sabaj!  I'd probably just get that one...and save $40.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 31 Dec 2017, 09:16 pm
Wow, it seems to be exactly the Sabaj!  I'd probably just get that one...and save $40.

-Jim
The Sabaj has 2 sabre chips; the smsl has built in battery. Will be interesting to see a comparison.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 31 Dec 2017, 09:23 pm
Here is a link to a test version of daphile which supports native Sabah da3 dsd512 for daphile ... http://www.daphile.com/tmp.NPZWbbUEbT/daphile-17.12-b232011-x86_64.iso
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 31 Dec 2017, 10:35 pm
The Sabaj has 2 sabre chips; the smsl has built in battery. Will be interesting to see a comparison.

The SMSL IQ looks to have less power on the headamp, however it does have selectable DSD filters. I don't think the DA3 has that. Can't seem to find any info on battery life. Otherwise looks like the same design as the DA3, but with better portability. Looks like they read the feedback on the DA3.

Wonder what the difference is with the new XMOS driver vs 4.11.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 31 Dec 2017, 10:39 pm
the da3 has 3 dsd filters selected from the menu - Fast and slow rolloff as well as minimum phase.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 1 Jan 2018, 11:39 am
Wow, it seems to be exactly the Sabaj!  I'd probably just get that one...and save $40.
Not exactly. Sabaj Da3 has no battery and has a different body-shape. + IQ has selectable transmission mode (USB 1.1 or USB 2.0) (http://www.smsl-audio.com/Upload/download/20171228135540110.pdf) which should help to avoid Android/Linux issues at a cost of high sample rates that USB1.1 cannot handle.

The Sabaj has 2 sabre chips; the smsl has built in battery. Will be interesting to see a comparison.
Both have 2 Sabre chips. It's not stated in SMSL IQ's specs for some reason but can be seen on a board pic.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173642)

The SMSL IQ looks to have less power on the headamp, however it does have selectable DSD filters. I don't think the DA3 has that.
Indeed on a paper Da3 seem more powerful than IQ which is strange since SABRE9018Q2C is a DAC+Amp solution which should lead to the same output characteristics in both cases. Da3 has selectable DSD filters as well, not sure if these are similar to IQ though + IQ has PCM filters.

Can't seem to find any info on battery life. Otherwise looks like the same design as the DA3, but with better portability. Looks like they read the feedback on the DA3.
We all would like to know the exact type, capacity, etc about the built-in battery... Unfortunately no info available at this moment. To me SMSL IQ looks like a more well thought out solution for portable use, primarily because of the battery and also the ability to easily switch between USB1.1 and USB2.0

Wonder what the difference is with the new XMOS driver vs 4.11.
Seem like it has a better auto buffer management in ASIO mode. Also the control panel is a bit more informative but nothing dramatic.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173643)


Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 2 Jan 2018, 05:06 pm
Could someone please explain with links to the identified components how to add an external linear power supply to suppott the da3. Also confirm that the increase in sound quality justifies the investment.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 2 Jan 2018, 06:53 pm
Could someone please explain with links to the identified components how to add an external linear power supply to suppott the da3. Also confirm that the increase in sound quality justifies the investment.
"iDefender3.0 USB Ground Loop Eliminator" seems to be the wisest and easiest way to power it. If you think it as a big investment I think you should just wait and buy a chord mojo. I don't think you can confirm it without trying it yourself, you might find it a little bit bright. Using it with Shure se846 with red knowles filters and loving it.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 2 Jan 2018, 09:57 pm
"iDefender3.0 USB Ground Loop Eliminator" seems to be the wisest and easiest way to power it. If you think it as a big investment I think you should just wait and buy a chord mojo. I don't think you can confirm it without trying it yourself, you might find it a little bit bright. Using it with Shure se846 with red knowles filters and loving it.

Thanks. Bought the ipower with idefender. I have a gustard x20u for my main system and smsl m8a for lounge. The Sabaj da3 replaces the smsl m8 in my office.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 2 Jan 2018, 10:05 pm
"iDefender3.0 USB Ground Loop Eliminator" seems to be the wisest and easiest way to power it. If you think it as a big investment I think you should just wait and buy a chord mojo. I don't think you can confirm it without trying it yourself, you might find it a little bit bright. Using it with Shure se846 with red knowles filters and loving it.

The iDefender doesn't power anything by itself.  It just allows you to provide your own power to a device normally powered by USB.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 2 Jan 2018, 10:40 pm
"iDefender3.0 USB Ground Loop Eliminator" seems to be the wisest and easiest way to power it. If you think it as a big investment I think you should just wait and buy a chord mojo. I don't think you can confirm it without trying it yourself, you might find it a little bit bright. Using it with Shure se846 with red knowles filters and loving it.

Hopefully the combination of the idefender, ipower and sabaj da3 with DSD512 will not be far off the Mojo DSD256 at 40% of the cost..
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ksbruce on 3 Jan 2018, 03:01 am
Hopefully the combination of the idefender, ipower and sabaj da3 with DSD512 will not be far off the Mojo DSD256 at 40% of the cost..

From what I understand the Mojo does down convert DSD to high bit rate pcm.....
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: biriken0915 on 7 Jan 2018, 02:26 pm
Wow, it seems to be exactly the Sabaj!  I'd probably just get that one...and save $40.

-Jim
I've just received. actual weight is 80g. USB is microUSB(not type-c).
It took 2.5 hours to full charge (6/6), now it is running for 3 hours and the gauge is 4/6.
Accessories are as follows
manual
microUSB f - microUSB f (10cmm), microUSB f - type-c f (10cmm),  microUSB f - USB f

Even if an amateur like me, the sound quality is higher than sabaj da3.
(At least the built-in power supply did not adversely affect.)

My equipment is [DAP]shanling M1 - [CBL]included USB - [DAC]SMSL IQ - [EP]SE - CH5BL.




Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 7 Jan 2018, 03:13 pm
Even if an amateur like me, the sound quality is higher than sabaj da3.
(At least the built-in power supply did not adversely affect.)
What files did you compare?
Did you compare some DSD files?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: biriken0915 on 7 Jan 2018, 03:48 pm
What files did you compare?
Did you compare some DSD files?
Yes, some DSD64,128. 256 pop and classical package, and upconverted DSD512.
Actually, sound's resolution clearly improved for my amateur ears. (It is just a my personal opinion ^^))

After 5 hours, the indicator is 1/6. Battery holding may be a problem depending on the usage form. There is no problem in my use.


Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 7 Jan 2018, 06:45 pm

Even if an amateur like me, the sound quality is higher than sabaj da3.
(At least the built-in power supply did not adversely affect.)


Any difference with sound signature, detail and noise level? :singing:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 7 Jan 2018, 07:06 pm
Don't get too comfortable with that new SMSL. Look what's within striking distance of that price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOPPING-Takumi-NX4-DSD-fever-HiFi-portable-decoding-amp-ES9038-USB-DAC/272972594580?hash (https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOPPING-Takumi-NX4-DSD-fever-HiFi-portable-decoding-amp-ES9038-USB-DAC/272972594580?hash)

even cheaper here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Upgrade-Version-Topping-NX4-DSD512-ES9038Q2M-XMOS-XU208-chip-Portable-USB-DAC-Decoder-32bit-768kHZ-Headphone/32843177203.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10151_10065_10130_10068_10344_10324_10547_10342_10325_10546_10343_10340_10548_10341_10545_10084_10083_10307_10059_10314_10534_100031_10604_10103_10142,searchweb201603_40,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487-0&algo_pvid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Upgrade-Version-Topping-NX4-DSD512-ES9038Q2M-XMOS-XU208-chip-Portable-USB-DAC-Decoder-32bit-768kHZ-Headphone/32843177203.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10151_10065_10130_10068_10344_10324_10547_10342_10325_10546_10343_10340_10548_10341_10545_10084_10083_10307_10059_10314_10534_100031_10604_10103_10142,searchweb201603_40,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487-0&algo_pvid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0)

Like I said earlier, the upgrade cycle on DACs is now 6mo. or less. I'll wait another cycle then maybe get one of these es9038s once the price comes down.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: biriken0915 on 8 Jan 2018, 02:18 am
Don't get too comfortable with that new SMSL. Look what's within striking distance of that price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOPPING-Takumi-NX4-DSD-fever-HiFi-portable-decoding-amp-ES9038-USB-DAC/272972594580?hash (https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOPPING-Takumi-NX4-DSD-fever-HiFi-portable-decoding-amp-ES9038-USB-DAC/272972594580?hash)

even cheaper here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Upgrade-Version-Topping-NX4-DSD512-ES9038Q2M-XMOS-XU208-chip-Portable-USB-DAC-Decoder-32bit-768kHZ-Headphone/32843177203.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10151_10065_10130_10068_10344_10324_10547_10342_10325_10546_10343_10340_10548_10341_10545_10084_10083_10307_10059_10314_10534_100031_10604_10103_10142,searchweb201603_40,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487-0&algo_pvid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Upgrade-Version-Topping-NX4-DSD512-ES9038Q2M-XMOS-XU208-chip-Portable-USB-DAC-Decoder-32bit-768kHZ-Headphone/32843177203.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10151_10065_10130_10068_10344_10324_10547_10342_10325_10546_10343_10340_10548_10341_10545_10084_10083_10307_10059_10314_10534_100031_10604_10103_10142,searchweb201603_40,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487-0&algo_pvid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0)

Like I said earlier, the upgrade cycle on DACs is now 6mo. or less. I'll wait another cycle then maybe get one of these es9038s once the price comes down.
Wow, excellent!!(I missed new NX4 information). I agree you opinion exactly.

>>Any difference with sound signature, detail and noise level?
I am sorry, since I'm a beginner, I can only say it to the general but I feel that the noise level is particularly improved. (Please forgive me because I don't have a measurement equipments.)

The battery lasted six hours after all. (Of course it is a reference value to the last because it is the result of the first time and only once.)


Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 8 Jan 2018, 02:44 am
is it just me or the siler version of nx4 seems 10 times better looking than the black?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: flavo on 9 Jan 2018, 12:57 am
Wushuliu
Back on page 7 or so. You mentioned this was on your headphone rig and you planned on setting it up on your 2 channel rig I believe. Did you get this done and do you have any thoughts on it?

Does anyone have any experience with this on a mac mini or similar? Something other then PC or phone/tablet? Any reason to believe why it would give me an issue on my Mac?

I see there is a balanced XLR  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gotham-Astell-Kern-Opus-DP-X1-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-XLR-Output-Cable-1-0M/112579597019?hash=item1a364452db:g:A3UAAOSwM6ZZy6Qs

I couldn't find something similar for an RCA. Would it matter if I just used a 3.5mm to rca connector to my preamp?


Thanks all
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: otto802 on 9 Jan 2018, 01:47 am
.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: otto802 on 9 Jan 2018, 01:48 am
Wushuliu
Back on page 7 or so. You mentioned this was on your headphone rig and you planned on setting it up on your 2 channel rig I believe. Did you get this done and do you have any thoughts on it?

Does anyone have any experience with this on a mac mini or similar? Something other then PC or phone/tablet? Any reason to believe why it would give me an issue on my Mac?

I see there is a balanced XLR  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gotham-Astell-Kern-Opus-DP-X1-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-XLR-Output-Cable-1-0M/112579597019?hash=item1a364452db:g:A3UAAOSwM6ZZy6Qs

I couldn't find something similar for an RCA. Would it matter if I just used a 3.5mm to rca connector to my preamp?


Thanks all


On a mac mini, isn't your headphone out also an optical out? You could run a Toslink to 3.5 cable like this? https://www.amazon.com/FosPower-Toslink-Digital-Connectors-Strain-Relief/dp/B00T8HWUVS/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NH7HG9WXVDK5G74V4BTF
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 9 Jan 2018, 01:52 am
Wushuliu
Back on page 7 or so. You mentioned this was on your headphone rig and you planned on setting it up on your 2 channel rig I believe. Did you get this done and do you have any thoughts on it?

Does anyone have any experience with this on a mac mini or similar? Something other then PC or phone/tablet? Any reason to believe why it would give me an issue on my Mac?

I see there is a balanced XLR  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gotham-Astell-Kern-Opus-DP-X1-2-5mm-TRRS-Balanced-XLR-Output-Cable-1-0M/112579597019?hash=item1a364452db:g:A3UAAOSwM6ZZy6Qs

I couldn't find something similar for an RCA. Would it matter if I just used a 3.5mm to rca connector to my preamp?


Thanks all

Yes the DA3 excels on 2 channel out of my main speakers. I think that's how you have to really appreciate its performance. It's sound quality is kind of wasted on portable use (IMO). I think some people have had issues with Mac and DSD playback. Non-PC DSD playback seems to work fine for some and not others.

3.5mm unbalanced to your preamp should be fine...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: flavo on 10 Jan 2018, 12:24 am

On a mac mini, isn't your headphone out also an optical out? You could run a Toslink to 3.5 cable like this? https://www.amazon.com/FosPower-Toslink-Digital-Connectors-Strain-Relief/dp/B00T8HWUVS/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_23_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NH7HG9WXVDK5G74V4BTF

I dont have a pre at this point. The one I plan to build or buy in short time is a Tortuga and they only have RCA in. Unless I've missed something in the chain, which is entirely possible. The optical cord won't work for me.

And thank you Wushului
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 11 Jan 2018, 11:20 am
Don't get too comfortable with that new SMSL. Look what's within striking distance of that price: click (https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOPPING-Takumi-NX4-DSD-fever-HiFi-portable-decoding-amp-ES9038-USB-DAC/272972594580?hash)
even cheaper here: click (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Upgrade-Version-Topping-NX4-DSD512-ES9038Q2M-XMOS-XU208-chip-Portable-USB-DAC-Decoder-32bit-768kHZ-Headphone/32843177203.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10151_10065_10130_10068_10344_10324_10547_10342_10325_10546_10343_10340_10548_10341_10545_10084_10083_10307_10059_10314_10534_100031_10604_10103_10142,searchweb201603_40,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487-0&algo_pvid=a0fa8564-3f04-4c4d-9638-5cf774dda487&transAbTest=ae803_4&priceBeautifyAB=0)

Like I said earlier, the upgrade cycle on DACs is now 6mo. or less. I'll wait another cycle then maybe get one of these es9038s once the price comes down.

This is a very interesting device indeed! With a flagship mobile ES9038Q2M DAC, battery, etc... But is it a major upgrade or even a different league comparing to SMSL IQ or Sabaj Da3 ? Technically on paper (http://bbs.hifidiy.net/thread-1257220-1-1.html) for sure it is but how different is it in real life in that particular device? Let's not forget IQ & Da3 have a dual mono/balanced configurations with SABRE9018Q2C - which is a DAC+Amp (ES9018K2M+SABRE9602) with completely black BG and quite strong output. (For instance my single-chip Da2 drives my not so beloved 250Ohm DT990 with no troubles at all.)

What's the amp chip used in Topping NX4 DSD? Is it the same OPA1642+LMH6643 combo found in the original NX4 or a different set?
Using SABRE9602 amp will make 9038Q2M sound very close if not identical to 9018Q2C. Using TI's stuff like OPA1622 will make it sound different I guess, maybe even better.
EDIT: Ok, it's OPA2140-based, no additional info though.

Btw check this out - prices of different ESS chips as seen on ismosys.com (https://ecommerce.ismosys.com/ordering/index.php?cPath=120_195_108)
ES9010K2M - $ 5.95 (DF Black)
ES9016K2M - $ 10.50 (DF Red)
ES9018K2M - $ 10.35 (Hifime, etc)
SABRE9018Q2C - $ 23.10 (IQ, Da3, Da2/idea, etc)
ES9038Q2M - $ 13.80 (NX4 DSD, Vivo Xplay6 phone, etc)
ES9038PRO - $ 74.18 (Oppo Sonica DAC, Melokin DA9.1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/292340909643), upcoming HiFime dac (https://hifimediy.com/news/New-Sabre-ES9038PRO-Chip))

These prices make me wonder why AudioQuest didn't use ES9018K2M instead of ES9016K2M? Well, now it's time for them to release a "revolutionary" new "blue label" ES9038Q2M-based DF DAC with SABRE9602 amp for $300 :icon_twisted:

EDIT: Actually talking again about comparison of DragonFly Red vs SMSL Idea / Sabaj Da2 - definitely the later two have an edge in terms of SQ and higher bitrates + DSD, on the other hand DragonFly sticks are much better with low power consumption. Think of it as ES9016K2M+ESS amp vs ES9018K2M+SABRE9602 amp and XMOS XU208 vs Microchip PIC32MX. Original DragonFly + v1.2 + Black - out of this league because of slightly inferior DAC chips and noisy TPA6130A2 amp with analog volume control.

IMO, it would be cool to see Sabaj Da3 and SMSL IQ with double ES9038Q2M+SABRE9602 sets or maybe even ES9038Q2M+OPA1622 instead of SABRE9018Q2C which already perfectly fits Da2/Idea concept, size & price.

Actually there's one double ES9038Q2M+SABRE9602 DAC out there already - Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073WCRZ79). Not exactly made for portable use, no balanced outputs, 2x expensive but has remote control, 8 user-selectable filters and MQA support (if someone cares).

At the same time for a similar price there's Melokin DA9.1 with ES9038PRO+OPA1622 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/292340909643). ;)

Even if an amateur like me, the sound quality is higher than sabaj da3.
(At least the built-in power supply did not adversely affect.)
SQ shouldn't be really higher than Da3, considering SABRE9018Q2C is an integrated solution (DAC ​with Headphone Amplifier & Output Switch) which should lead to almost identical SQ in both IQ and Da3 and be quite similar to Da2/idea as well.

Yes the DA3 excels on 2 channel out of my main speakers. I think that's how you have to really appreciate its performance. It's sound quality is kind of wasted on portable use (IMO). I think some people have had issues with Mac and DSD playback. Non-PC DSD playback seems to work fine for some and not others.
I agree that Da3 is not exactly meant for portable on-the-go use, since it's power-hungry and has no battery.  It's more like a very compact desktop DAC that you can take along with a laptop on a trip. Da2/idea is a more logical choice for portable use even though it's also quite power-hungry...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Lol999 on 27 Jan 2018, 08:22 pm
I don't know if anyone has heard a dac with the 5242 chip in it but I have one made by Iquadio fastened to my Pi3 and it leaves the Sabaj Da2 in the mire for overall musicality, detail and soundstage.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 27 Jan 2018, 09:29 pm
I don't know if anyone has heard a dac with the 5242 chip in it but I have one made by Iquadio fastened to my Pi3 and it leaves the Sabaj Da2 in the mire for overall musicality, detail and soundstage.

you mean this?
http://iqaudio.co.uk/hats/47-pi-dac-pro.html
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 27 Jan 2018, 10:02 pm
This DAC does not support DSD files. :(
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 27 Jan 2018, 11:38 pm
This DAC does not support DSD files. :(

which is of absolutely no importance whatsoever to 99% of the people. and only a percentage of mutant freak audiophiles :)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Jan 2018, 01:55 am
you mean this?
http://iqaudio.co.uk/hats/47-pi-dac-pro.html

If that's what he means then it's an apples to oranges comparison since the Sabaj/SMSL are usb dacs, not Pi-attacheable dacs. The RPi dac *should* sound better in that application since it's specifically designed to be attached directly to the RPi and uses i2s for data, etc.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 28 Jan 2018, 02:36 am
If that's what he means then it's an apples to oranges comparison since the Sabaj/SMSL are usb dacs, not Pi-attacheable dacs. The RPi dac *should* sound better in that application since it's specifically designed to be attached directly to the RPi and uses i2s for data, etc.

exactly. i do have a Pi3 lying around and i do need a kind of a streamer so i might give it a try.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Lol999 on 28 Jan 2018, 09:03 am
you mean this?
http://iqaudio.co.uk/hats/47-pi-dac-pro.html

Yes that. Just needs a couple of line tweaks in Rune and it's good to go.
Apples and oranges? Really? It was my understanding that the usb outlet on Pi 3 was quite devoid of noise such that the path taken by the signal to dac would be irrelevant.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 28 Jan 2018, 02:09 pm
We are not talking about USB output on RPi3, but about USB connectivity to PC or MAC. :?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Lol999 on 28 Jan 2018, 02:28 pm
We are not talking about USB output on RPi3, but about USB connectivity to PC or MAC. :?

I compared them both on a Pi3 as the Sabaj was usb connectivity so draw your own conclusions :-)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 28 Jan 2018, 03:50 pm
This is not a good comparison because rpi3 usb is bad. :(
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Lol999 on 28 Jan 2018, 06:02 pm
But is it bad? I thought someone called Archimango had tested the output and found no problems with noise on it?
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that was the outcome.
There are also folks on this forum who feed some pretty expensive dac's from their Pi usb port.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Wayne1 on 28 Jan 2018, 08:54 pm
"RPIs are great and very energy efficient, but on USB they have 2 major flaws. First is that bandwidth is shared between the 2 USB ports (so in fact there is only one USB), and second is that ethernet is also shared on same bus! Of course, you also have the noise on USB at about 60mV."

Take  look at the Allo USBridge (https://www.allo.com/sparky/usbridge.html)

I have been using an Odroid C2 which works just fine for me with Roon into a separate AKM4490 based DAC,
and I do upsample everything to DSD256. I guess I am just one of those mutant freak audiophiles  :wink:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 29 Jan 2018, 02:57 am
But is it bad? I thought someone called Archimango had tested the output and found no problems with noise on it?
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that was the outcome.
There are also folks on this forum who feed some pretty expensive dac's from their Pi usb port.

Archimago's site has its uses, but I'm pretty sure he would also say you're listening impressions are subjectively flawed and that there's no difference between the DACs  :?

I don't know the quality of the RPi usb, but the Allo Pi DAC is *specifically* designed to connect to the Pi *directly* using i2s, correct?  whereas a usb dac like the sabaj/smsl has to take the signal via usb and THEN convert the data. So I would certainly hope the Pi DAC sounds better since it was created specifically for that application. If it didn't sound better than a dac on the RPi usb, that would be disappointing. It's apples and oranges.

@Wayne1 The USBridge looks great. Even Allo points out the poor quality USB on the stock board, hence the USBridge. If I had an RPi I would either get one of the attacheable DACs or a USBridge/DigiOne to an external DAC.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 29 Jan 2018, 03:57 am
Wush :) is correct, there is a huge penalty  in sound quality for using RPi3's usb port. that is why the ALLO Boss and recently the very nicely engineered (definitely the best for RPi 3) mamboberry Dac have made sch impact in quality by going to extreme lenghts fixing the problems with the usb off of Rpi.

Mamboberry not only is not getting its power from the Rpi (I always thought that we need more double negatives in our lives :)) but it powers Rpi itself which is absolutely unique. the older version was powered by a toroidal tranformer (5V) while the new version has an amazing linear power supply (optional) for around 160 bucks. it is the best RPi based solution bar none.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Lol999 on 30 Jan 2018, 04:18 pm
[quote  it is the best RPi based solution bar none.
[/quote]

This guy begs to differ http://www.dimdim.gr/2017/03/mamboberry-ls-dac-vs-boss-dac-vs-piano-2-1-hi-fi-dac-with-and-without-kali-fifo-reclocker/ (http://www.dimdim.gr/2017/03/mamboberry-ls-dac-vs-boss-dac-vs-piano-2-1-hi-fi-dac-with-and-without-kali-fifo-reclocker/)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 30 Jan 2018, 04:51 pm
[quote  it is the best RPi based solution bar none.


This guy begs to differ http://www.dimdim.gr/2017/03/mamboberry-ls-dac-vs-boss-dac-vs-piano-2-1-hi-fi-dac-with-and-without-kali-fifo-reclocker/ (http://www.dimdim.gr/2017/03/mamboberry-ls-dac-vs-boss-dac-vs-piano-2-1-hi-fi-dac-with-and-without-kali-fifo-reclocker/)

Kudos for doing research .I love it when people do research before just taking a side and sticking with it.

Also the dimdim blog is one of the best.this is a man who knows what he is telling about. Avery good reference. Probably the best.

But you made one mistake. The product that I'm talking about is the mamboberry hd dac. The product that you linked is the la dac that has long been discontinued.the hd Dac is a 100 % different product.almost no similarity at all. You can see that plainly if you just look at the two boards.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Lol999 on 30 Jan 2018, 06:00 pm
tbh I'm not in a position to buy and compare the items so I have to stay with what I have, which I'm very happy with.

I used the Sabaj Da2 via usb on Pi3 and laptop through Fbar2K and I still didn't like it. Too shrill, splashy and lacking in texture for my tastes to the extent that I got no pleasure form music. Plug the old Muse pcm2704 in and the feet started tapping again, just as they do with the Iqaudio I have now.

One mans meat etc
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 30 Jan 2018, 06:28 pm
tbh I'm not in a position to buy and compare the items so I have to stay with what I have, which I'm very happy with.

I used the Sabaj Da2 via usb on Pi3 and laptop through Fbar2K and I still didn't like it. Too shrill, splashy and lacking in texture for my tastes to the extent that I got no pleasure form music. Plug the old Muse pcm2704 in and the feet started tapping again, just as they do with the Iqaudio I have now.

One mans meat etc

Plugged in my modded Muse this weekend, still very enjoyable. Especially the mids. Such a great dac. I don't doubt a lot of people would prefer it to the Sabre-based dacs. Your impression of the Sabaj still makes me think there are other issues at play though. Unfortunate thing about Dacs, especially usb dacs is all the effort that has to be put into removing noise and keeping the signal clean...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 1 Feb 2018, 07:16 am
Hopefully the combination of the idefender, ipower and sabaj da3 with DSD512 will not be far off the Mojo DSD256 at 40% of the cost..

A friendly salute to Down Under...

I believe the 'bedding in' grace period is up for the iPower / iDefender / Sabaj3; can you share any comments, please...? I'd like to join the poor man' s Mojo DAC substitute club  :)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Cacophonix on 1 Feb 2018, 05:08 pm
Amazon has a $10 off on the sabaj da3. So that's $89 now, and massdrop has the SMSL iQ for $110. Great deals all around  :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 3 Feb 2018, 05:26 pm
A friendly salute to Down Under...

I believe the 'bedding in' grace period is up for the iPower / iDefender / Sabaj3; can you share any comments, please...? I'd like to join the poor man' s Mojo DAC substitute club  :)

I use the Sabaj da3 to front a dedicated daphile system with a g4560 CPU for DSD256 upsampling which is very enjoyable and an improvement on the smsl m8 which the da3 replaced. Adding the ipower idefender made a noticeable improvement in clarity and tighter bass and is well worth the investment. The fact the idefender supports the connection of the ipower via a micro USB port means you don't have to buy additional cables.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 4 Feb 2018, 04:27 am
The Sabaj DA3 is incredible value. I upgraded my CPU from a G4560 to an i7 7700 using a broken offering off ebay (mem channel A not working, cost $169) and upsample to native DSD512 using Daphile. As stated earlier I also use the ifi iPower and iDefender.  The sound is almost on a par with my Gustard X20u. It even upsamples DSD128 and DSD256 to DSD512 with no noticeable distortion (the G4560 could only manage DSD128).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 4 Feb 2018, 07:37 am
The Sabaj DA3 is incredible value. I upgraded my CPU from a G4560 to an i7 7700 using a broken offering off ebay (mem channel A not working, cost $169) and upsample to native DSD512 using Daphile. As stated earlier I also use the ifi iPower and iDefender.  The sound is almost on a par with my Gustard X20u. It even upsamples DSD128 and DSD256 to DSD512 with no noticeable distortion (the G4560 could only manage DSD128).

Thank you, Triplefun, for your your valuable feedback...   :beer:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 4 Feb 2018, 06:08 pm
The Sabaj DA3 is incredible value. I upgraded my CPU from a G4560 to an i7 7700 using a broken offering off ebay (mem channel A not working, cost $169) and upsample to native DSD512 using Daphile. As stated earlier I also use the ifi iPower and iDefender.  The sound is almost on a par with my Gustard X20u. It even upsamples DSD128 and DSD256 to DSD512 with no noticeable distortion (the G4560 could only manage DSD128).

i just bought one sabaj DA3 for 90 bucks. i was originally leaning towards Topping NX4 (not the DSD) but i ended up with this one for $90. im also ordering a Audio-gd R2R 11 which is gonna end up being 400 bucks including shipping and what not.

this (sabaj and audio gd) will be my dive into chin-fi and also into hopefully finding a good replacement for delta sigma dacs as far as my main rig is concerned. if this R2R delivers it would be good riddance.

edit: actually it would be my second dive. sinve i already had the $1200 dual ESS Sabre 9018 with extensive op amp upgrades that i hated on the account of sounding crap. hopefully this time im not gonna be disappointed.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 4 Feb 2018, 06:12 pm
I also bought a monoprice 3.5 mm to male RCa cable for 4.5 bucks off ebay, but ill be on the look put for a proper (thick and heavy lol) cable (length 1 to 3 feet) preferably OCC for under 35 bucks. i dont feel like taking a chance on chin fi so if anyone has 1st hand experience with real quality cables from Chinese suppliers please let me know. other than case that i find an amazing pure copper with good connector cable for cheap i will stick with the monoprice.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 4 Feb 2018, 06:23 pm
i just bought one sabaj DA3 for 90 bucks. i was originally leaning towards Topping NX4 (not the DSD) but i ended up with this one for $90. im also ordering a Audio-gd R2R 11 which is gonna end up being 400 bucks including shipping and what not.

this (sabaj and audio gd) will be my dive into chin-fi and also into hopefully finding a good replacement for delta sigma dacs as far as my main rig is concerned. if this R2R delivers it would be good riddance.

edit: actually it would be my second dive. sinve i already had the $1200 dual ESS Sabre 9018 with extensive op amp upgrades that i hated on the account of sounding crap. hopefully this time im not gonna be disappointed.

I only just learned about the audiogd R2R. People seem to love it. If I'd have known about it sooner I would have bought one. They make great gear. And the price is the cheapest of the r2r dacs on the market.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 4 Feb 2018, 07:07 pm
I only just learned about the audiogd R2R. People seem to love it. If I'd have known about it sooner I would have bought one. They make great gear. And the price is the cheapest of the r2r dacs on the market.

well dont rush to judgement, the r2r 11 model that is real cheap for an r2r comes with some cost cutting which im curious how it would affect the sound. the headfi comments on them are scant and from users that i dont really care about their opinions. pretty much all the hype around R2r 11 comes from 2 youtube videos by Zeos and some idiot teenager from some middle of nowhere place in midwest who has half my experience with hifi but thinks that he can make a headphone recommendation video every month. both of them are dumbasses so im gonna see for myself. 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 5 Feb 2018, 08:16 pm
JUST for the sake of comparison and for good measure i bought one of these too:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FEDHHKE/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


im planning to buy an he400s to compare as well. even though if i find a real good deal (around the same price) i might just get a used B&W p7 wired because will definitely use it more than any HE400 or HD650 being closed an all. they also look real good as well. 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 5 Feb 2018, 09:09 pm
JUST for the sake of comparison and for good measure i bought one of these too:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FEDHHKE/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


im planning to buy an he400s to compare as well. even though if i find a real good deal (around the same price) i might just get a used B&W p7 wired because will definitely use it more than any HE400 or HD650 being closed an all. they also look real good as well.

Please share your comparison with da3 if you can!  :) You might try sonarworks or morphit for reference eq for headphones, it makes a great difference!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 5 Feb 2018, 09:32 pm
Please share your comparison with da3 if you can!  :) You might try sonarworks or morphit for reference eq for headphones, it makes a great difference!

if there is a free plug in for foobar ill give it a try. im not paying for those just now because ive never tried one. is there a trial version?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 6 Feb 2018, 09:03 am
if there is a free plug in for foobar ill give it a try. im not paying for those just now because ive never tried one. is there a trial version?

No plugin for foobar but standalone for sonarworks and vst trials for both:

Morphit: https://www.toneboosters.com/download.html

Sonarworks: https://www.sonarworks.com/reference/downloads/win

Sonarworks has speaker calibration that is swell too but it needs a calibration microphone  :|
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 6 Feb 2018, 05:10 pm
No plugin for foobar but standalone for sonarworks and vst trials for both:

Morphit: https://www.toneboosters.com/download.html

Sonarworks: https://www.sonarworks.com/reference/downloads/win

Sonarworks has speaker calibration that is swell too but it needs a calibration microphone  :|

thanks

 sabaj da3 arrived. sounds real good. sounds better than the LKS to me which is just downright weird. i listened the few hi rez albums that i have.
mark knopfler shangri la which is 96khz sounded good
Tchaikovsky souvenir sounds wonderful. it is the best it has ever sounded. it is 352.8khz PCM
i cant get the 3 dsd albms that i have to play.

regular red book sounds good too. this is no burn in. literally out of the box 30 minutes ago.
graham sash prison song is a harmonica driven little song that all ESS sabre dacs always fail at and NOS/TUBE always wins for me. but with sabaj it is sounding like my phillips NOS audio mirror dac but with an obvious quieter background and more dynamic. the songs sounds darn good.

Indian that dwells inside this chest by Kashmir is a low quality recording that i like (iut is 320kbps mp3) and that sounds good too.


 i think its a keeper.

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 6 Feb 2018, 05:13 pm
i got the DSD to work too. Beethoven string quartet no 10 sounds pretty good.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 6 Feb 2018, 05:25 pm
i quickly preferred the slow roll off filter
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 6 Feb 2018, 05:50 pm
i quickly preferred the slow roll off filter

Get the ifi ipower and idefender.  Also try DSD upsampling - no brainer using linux based daphile (make sure you use the latest beta) which you can temporarily load from a USB stick without compromising your windows install and no need to install Sabaj drivers. Create the USB boot using Rufus and daphile beta iso downloaded from http://www.daphile.com/firmware/private-beta/
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 6 Feb 2018, 05:58 pm
Get the ifi ipower and idefender.  Also try DSD upsampling - no brainer using linux based daphile (make sure you use the latest beta) which you can temporarily load from a USB stick without compromising your windows install and no need to install Sabaj drivers. Create the USB boot using Rufus and daphile beta iso downloaded from http://www.daphile.com/firmware/private-beta/

i will. i have an Rpi 3b ready for daphile.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Triplefun on 6 Feb 2018, 06:12 pm
i will. i have an Rpi 3b ready for daphile.

Daphile does not run on the RPI.  You need a good Intel or amd cpu to support the up sampling. I was so impressed with the sabaj  that I bought an i7 7700 for dsd512 and was amazed with the result. A cheaper g4560 will do dsd256.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 6 Feb 2018, 06:30 pm
Daphile does not run on the RPI.  You need a good Intel or amd cpu to support the up sampling. I was so impressed with the sabaj  that I bought an i7 7700 for dsd512 and was amazed with the result. A cheaper g4560 will do dsd256.

oh i just assumed that daphile is one of the specially brewed distros for Rpi. i'm sticking with one of the linux distros for RPi probably volumio
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 14 Feb 2018, 07:21 pm
in an amazing failure to meet the expectations, B&W P7s bass performance has been a let down. i was expecting colored, slightly v shaped, and fun i got thin sounding typical of closed back headphones, id call it analytical and sterile even. bass has no impact, compared with monolith M1060 that has he560 level of bass it is just a complete letdown.

with signstek even worse. signstek's headphone out is not good.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 14 Feb 2018, 07:44 pm
based on the innerfidelity measured response as well as subjective review it sounds like something is amiss. Measurements show it should be on the boomy bass side of things. Definitely not thin.

No, the signstek headphone out is not as impressive as line out to 2 channel.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 14 Feb 2018, 07:44 pm
FYI, I have an extra NIB Sabaj DA3 for sale in the trading post...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 14 Feb 2018, 07:54 pm
based on the innerfidelity measured response as well as subjective review it sounds like something is amiss. Measurements show it should be on the boomy bass side of things. Definitely not thin.

No, the signstek headphone out is not as impressive as line out to 2 channel.

yes it is the opposite of what i was expecting based exactly on those observations that you mentioned. my V-moda crossfade headphones trumps this p7 in bass and eberything else really. i am positively baffled.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 15 Feb 2018, 03:06 pm
Sealed headphone measurements can be very sensitive to.. well, seal. Measurement differences can be dramatic. Do you wear glasses? - sometimes this is enough to ruin the response.

Sorry I just realized this is not a headphone thread...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 15 Feb 2018, 03:35 pm
Sealed headphone measurements can be very sensitive to.. well, seal. Measurement differences can be dramatic.

Pretty much what the innerfidelity review said about those headphones.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 16 Feb 2018, 08:44 am
Why are we talking about headphones, out of the blue?  Did someone post in the wrong circle?  This is the Cheap and Cheerful circle and the thread is about DACs for peanuts.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 21 Feb 2018, 08:21 pm
https://hifimediy.com/uda38pro-usb-dac-es9038pro

ES9038PRO + SA9227 for $249. Looks decent. So who is going to bite the bullet?

Edit: God I'm slow, there was already a thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155526.0
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 21 Feb 2018, 08:29 pm
Why are we talking about headphones, out of the blue?  Did someone post in the wrong circle?  This is the Cheap and Cheerful circle and the thread is about DACs for peanuts.

Sorry it was entirely my bad.

Audio-gd R2R 11 is coming. im so excited about doing a comparison between Chord Hugo, Sabaj DA3, R2R-2, and schiit bimby (DAC only). ill do that as soon as it has over 100 hours on it.
it is very timely because i have a bunch of good value headphones in my possession. from Senn HD650 to hifiman HE400, to Modded fostex T50RP to monolith planars in addition to my stereo.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Feb 2018, 08:31 pm
https://hifimediy.com/uda38pro-usb-dac-es9038pro

ES9038PRO + SA9227 for $249. Looks decent. So who is going to bite the bullet?

Already did. I created a separate thread about somewhere below this one. Unfortunately the 'quick shipping' that was offered for the first units was misleading - it's been 2 weeks and I still have not gotten a tracking number due to the Chinese New Year delays for all these companies. I am moving next week so if it's not delivered by then... So I'm already feeling like I'm getting what I paid for. It would have been better if they were just up front about the shipping.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bixby on 22 Feb 2018, 09:57 pm
I also bought a monoprice 3.5 mm to male RCa cable for 4.5 bucks off ebay, but ill be on the look put for a proper (thick and heavy lol) cable (length 1 to 3 feet) preferably OCC for under 35 bucks. i dont feel like taking a chance on chin fi so if anyone has 1st hand experience with real quality cables from Chinese suppliers please let me know. other than case that i find an amazing pure copper with good connector cable for cheap i will stick with the monoprice.

The Monoprice may be steel like the simple cable 3.5 to 3.5 I bought for the car.  Piece o crap.  Yet some of their stuff is really good.

I have a Belkin Gold in 6 foot length that sound pretty nice.  You could have that for about $10 plus ship.  I ordered an Audio Sensiblity cable for about $100 I believe that sounded really good, but sold it when I sold my Mojo.

Personally, I would go with a well made cable from one of the pro audio houses.  should not be a whole lot more than $35.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 23 Feb 2018, 01:06 am
The Monoprice may be steel like the simple cable 3.5 to 3.5 I bought for the car.  Piece o crap.  Yet some of their stuff is really good.

I have a Belkin Gold in 6 foot length that sound pretty nice.  You could have that for about $10 plus ship.  I ordered an Audio Sensiblity cable for about $100 I believe that sounded really good, but sold it when I sold my Mojo.

Personally, I would go with a well made cable from one of the pro audio houses.  should not be a whole lot more than $35.

no its pretty good for the price. it is thin but thats it. it is real thin copper
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9768

the RCA's are a little loose compared to my proper hifi interconnects but that it.

i wont be using it anyway. i just bought it in case i wanted to send the signal from sabaj to a premp but the situation is not gonna come up.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jtwrace on 23 Feb 2018, 03:29 pm
The Topping DX7s looks quite impressive.  Remote coming in March too. 


https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-dx7s-dac-and-headphone-amp.2378/ (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-dx7s-dac-and-headphone-amp.2378/)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 23 Feb 2018, 11:33 pm
We're back.

For those areas that you have access to, you are welcome to participate in topics that are unrelated to your products. Please note that the Posting Guidelines always apply.

With regard to your own products, you are not permitted to discuss product availability, pricing, future product features, or anything related to your business activities.


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=about;area=industry-participant
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: noise11 on 26 Feb 2018, 07:14 pm
Sorry it was entirely my bad.

Audio-gd R2R 11 is coming. im so excited about doing a comparison between Chord Hugo, Sabaj DA3, R2R-2, and schiit bimby (DAC only). ill do that as soon as it has over 100 hours on it.
it is very timely because i have a bunch of good value headphones in my possession. from Senn HD650 to hifiman HE400, to Modded fostex T50RP to monolith planars in addition to my stereo.

do you think sabaj da3 it is a contender to chord hugo?  :o because I had my eyes on a chord mojo for a longtime which is a step down from hugo.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ksbruce on 12 Mar 2018, 09:38 am
Has anyone else tried a usb c output on their computer to the Sabaj? A subtle but noticeable improvement.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 12 Mar 2018, 04:45 pm
do you think sabaj da3 it is a contender to chord hugo?  :o because I had my eyes on a chord mojo for a longtime which is a step down from hugo.

that was a slip of finger mistake on my part, i meant chord mojo, i have never heard Hugo.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: dflee on 12 Mar 2018, 08:52 pm
I am lazy and don't want to go though all these posts and then look up the model (I'm tired already) so
are any of these suggestions R2R type or non over sampling?

Thanks
Don
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 15 Mar 2018, 09:28 pm
If you guys have missed there's a new windows driver v4.41.0 (http://www.sabaj.com.cn/Upload/download/20180313141756999.rar) for XMOS-based DACs released by Sabaj this time. It will work with variety of products from SMSL and Sabaj including Idea, IQ, Da2, Da3 and others. I have no idea what's new in there but it works perfectly with Da2.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 15 Mar 2018, 10:07 pm
any new finds that sound better so similar to sabaj DA3?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 20 Mar 2018, 09:59 am
any new finds that sound better so similar to sabaj DA3?
I couldn't find one yet. Instead I bought ifi isilencer3.0 for my sabaj da3 galaxy Note 4 combo. Great difference,  much more detail (%20 or more detail if I have to give a number) that I thought I couldn't have with da3. Absolutely give it a try.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Chein on 20 Mar 2018, 09:23 pm
I've gotten the idefender+ipower couple lately to power the DA3. If I had to describe the changes I would say the sound gets clearer, more natural and dynamic. The stereophony becomes larger, gets way deeper, the instruments don't overlay each other anymore in the depth. The sound from the DA3 was already really good by itself. The couple just improves it further. At the price point of the DA3 I dunno if it's worth it though, it doubles its price. Still I'm glad I invested in it knowing I will use it every time I get a new usb DAC (if it doesn't die on me :lol:).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 21 Mar 2018, 07:17 am
I've gotten the idefender+ipower couple lately to power the DA3. If I had to describe the changes I would say the sound gets clearer, more natural and dynamic. The stereophony becomes larger, gets way deeper, the instruments don't overlay each other anymore in the depth. The sound from the DA3 was already really good by itself. The couple just improves it further. At the price point of the DA3 I dunno if it's worth it though, it doubles its price. Still I'm glad I invested in it knowing I will use it every time I get a new usb DAC (if it doesn't die on me :lol:).
:o Exactly my thoughts but with isilencer3.0. I need to figure out to make idefender work portable before I buy one (maybe isilencer the powerbank?  :))
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 22 Mar 2018, 03:31 pm
This is a very interesting device indeed! With a flagship mobile ES9038Q2M DAC, battery, etc... But is it a major upgrade or even a different league comparing to SMSL IQ or Sabaj Da3 ? Technically on paper (http://bbs.hifidiy.net/thread-1257220-1-1.html) for sure it is but how different is it in real life in that particular device?

hard to know but it's able to run just as amp as well, which could be useful at times (e.g. on a plane).

Quote
What's the amp chip used in Topping NX4 DSD? Is it the same OPA1642+LMH6643 combo found in the original NX4 or a different set?
Using SABRE9602 amp will make 9038Q2M sound very close if not identical to 9018Q2C. Using TI's stuff like OPA1622 will make it sound different I guess, maybe even better.
EDIT: Ok, it's OPA2140-based, no additional info though.

It has a line out which (I assume) bypasses the headphone amp.

Like I need another DAC/amp, but still....

PS. Here's the manufacturer's page: http://tpdz.net/en/products/nx4dsd/index.htm

PPS. Also available now via amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Amplifier-Topping-XMOS-XU208-ES9038Q2M/dp/B07B4XZC37/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1521730881&sr=8-2&keywords=topping%2Bnx4%2Bdsd&th=1)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: randytsuch on 22 Mar 2018, 06:06 pm
There's a pretty long thread on 9038q2m boards at diyaudio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board.html)

Sounds like with some mods, can get good sound out of them.

I already have too many projects or I'd probably pick one up.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 3 Apr 2018, 11:19 pm
hard to know but it's able to run just as amp as well, which could be useful at times (e.g. on a plane).

It has a line out which (I assume) bypasses the headphone amp.

Like I need another DAC/amp, but still....

PS. Here's the manufacturer's page: http://tpdz.net/en/products/nx4dsd/index.htm

PPS. Also available now via amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Amplifier-Topping-XMOS-XU208-ES9038Q2M/dp/B07B4XZC37/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1521730881&sr=8-2&keywords=topping%2Bnx4%2Bdsd&th=1)

I've read some reviews and people tend to like NX4DSD more than Idea/Da2 or Da3. According to them it's just a bit more refined, more detailed and open and less "harsh". Seems like 9038 is indeed a worthy upgrade to 9018.

Even though I like my Sabaj Da2 (http://www.sabaj.com.cn/en/productshow.asp?id=73) + Etymotic Research ER4P (https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/earphones/er4.html) set very much, it's a perfect match indeed, I'm wondering how much further NX4DSD (http://en.tpdz.net/products_detail/productId=25.html) + ER4XR (https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/earphones/er4-new.html) can improve my on the go listening experience..?  8)

Yes, NX4DSD can be run as an amp only and it has line in and out in a single plug  :scratch:. Not sure if the lineout is not affected by the volume pot though.

Btw Topping has updated their website and all of their links has changed. NX4DSD is here (http://en.tpdz.net/products_detail/productId=25.html) now.

And we've got a new not so portable but very interesting Topping D50 DAC (http://en.tpdz.net/products_detail/productId=37.html) - a non-balanced brother of Topping DX7s (http://en.tpdz.net/products_detail/productId=32.html) Check it out!  :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 7 Apr 2018, 03:09 pm
isilencer your sabaj da2 or da3 for great difference. Recently I also added idefender to my da3 for the go with a small 18650 panasonic 3400mah power bank. Works without a problem.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 17 Apr 2018, 10:29 am
It seems no-one's got the NX4 (DSD) yet, anyway I just ordered one so will report back. I'm assuming (hoping) that being battery powered it will work from my iPhone/iPad. Plus with the line in it can be used in planes etc. We'll see.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 23 Apr 2018, 09:16 am
I've gotten the idefender+ipower couple lately to power the DA3. If I had to describe the changes I would say the sound gets clearer, more natural and dynamic. The stereophony becomes larger, gets way deeper, the instruments don't overlay each other anymore in the depth. The sound from the DA3 was already really good by itself. The couple just improves it further. At the price point of the DA3 I dunno if it's worth it though, it doubles its price. Still I'm glad I invested in it knowing I will use it every time I get a new usb DAC (if it doesn't die on me :lol:).

Investing in the cleanest power supply you can manage outweighs the value of the dac. This Lipo4(?)/LT3045 battery option showed up recently. I don't see the iPower competing with it, especially for the cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Battery-Regulated-Power-Supply-5V/273135946356?hash=item3f982bca74:g:vFIAAOSweq5av1nP

If you have the skills and want to really take your dac to a new level, replace the iPower with not one, but *two* LT3045 low noise regulators in series. I have a 6v board that feeds a 5v board. I can't overstate the impact. Floored me.


Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 23 Apr 2018, 09:17 am
It seems no-one's got the NX4 (DSD) yet, anyway I just ordered one so will report back. I'm assuming (hoping) that being battery powered it will work from my iPhone/iPad. Plus with the line in it can be used in planes etc. We'll see.

 :thumb:

Awesome!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 23 Apr 2018, 06:43 pm
Investing in the cleanest power supply you can manage outweighs the value of the dac. This Lipo4(?)/LT3045 battery option showed up recently. I don't see the iPower competing with it, especially for the cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Battery-Regulated-Power-Supply-5V/273135946356?hash=item3f982bca74:g:vFIAAOSweq5av1nP

If you have the skills and want to really take your dac to a new level, replace the iPower with not one, but *two* LT3045 low noise regulators in series. I have a 6v board that feeds a 5v board. I can't overstate the impact. Floored me.

It looks like it is only the 5 volt and nothing else
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 23 Apr 2018, 06:58 pm
Awesome!

Looks like they put it on the slowest boat they could find  :lol: Anyway I'll update when it arrives.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 23 Apr 2018, 10:36 pm
Looks like they put it on the slowest boat they could find  :lol: Anyway I'll update when it arrives.


Things shipped from China can take quite a while! Sometimes over a month - but they do get here in the States... though you're in OZ, right?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 24 Apr 2018, 07:37 am
Investing in the cleanest power supply you can manage outweighs the value of the dac. This Lipo4(?)/LT3045 battery option showed up recently. I don't see the iPower competing with it, especially for the cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Battery-Regulated-Power-Supply-5V/273135946356?hash=item3f982bca74:g:vFIAAOSweq5av1nP

If you have the skills and want to really take your dac to a new level, replace the iPower with not one, but *two* LT3045 low noise regulators in series. I have a 6v board that feeds a 5v board. I can't overstate the impact. Floored me.


how about using isilencer after ipower to feed the dac? Also will usb 5v board that feed 5v board work for usb dacs?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Alaundo on 24 Apr 2018, 10:09 am
In difficult choice between Sabaj Da2 / Sabaj Da3. But anyway I'm not going to use balanced headphones or headphones with impedance higher than 100-150 (now using 32-70). Question: Is there any other reason to buy Sabaj Da3 instead of Sabaj Da2? Is there any big difference in sound, other then balanced output, and ability to power higher impedance headphones?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 24 Apr 2018, 02:11 pm
In difficult choice between Sabaj Da2 / Sabaj Da3. But anyway I'm not going to use balanced headphones or headphones with impedance higher than 100-150 (now using 32-70). Question: Is there any other reason to buy Sabaj Da3 instead of Sabaj Da2? Is there any big difference in sound, other then balanced output, and ability to power higher impedance headphones?

Lower noise level.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Apr 2018, 09:22 pm
how about using isilencer after ipower to feed the dac?

iFi recommends trying out different positions for the isilencer/defender. You can try before or after iPower if you like and see how it sounds.

Also will usb 5v board that feed 5v board work for usb dacs?

? Not sure what you are referring to.

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 24 Apr 2018, 09:30 pm
? Not sure what you are referring to.

I'm thinking of doing a usb to usb dongle with two 5V 1A LT3045 for sabaj and for my other other usb only dacs.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Apr 2018, 09:41 pm
I'm thinking of doing a usb to usb with two 5V 1A LT3045 dongle for sabaj and for my other other usb only dacs.

You mean powered externally from like an idefender? What is the power source? You need at least 5.5v source to the LT to get 5v out to a dac.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Apr 2018, 09:59 pm
For instance here is what I use now:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=179313)

Adjustable Bench PS 7v-->LT3045A 6v-->LT3045B 5v-->Barrel Connector-->USB connector-->iDefender.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Chein on 25 Apr 2018, 12:29 am
Investing in the cleanest power supply you can manage outweighs the value of the dac. This Lipo4(?)/LT3045 battery option showed up recently. I don't see the iPower competing with it, especially for the cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Battery-Regulated-Power-Supply-5V/273135946356?hash=item3f982bca74:g:vFIAAOSweq5av1nP

If you have the skills and want to really take your dac to a new level, replace the iPower with not one, but *two* LT3045 low noise regulators in series. I have a 6v board that feeds a 5v board. I can't overstate the impact. Floored me.

Thank you man for the suggestion, looks like a great device. And at such a low price point compared to all those expensive LPS  :)
I'm sure you are right. I might try if someday I feel like I don't have enough with what I already have. The quest for better audio never ends  :lol:

About the NX4DSD, did you guys find direct comparisons with the DA3?
I don't feel like the DA3 sounds bright/harsh but rather neutral/transparent, which is what I prefer for all-purpose use.
The only "thing" -it's not even a comparison- I could ever find is that one guy on another site saying :
"DA3 has a very clean output, much cleaner than Idea. As a standalone DAC/amp, it's a better fit for Pro 82 than HA-2, Idea or NX4 DSD."
So yeah... I saw someone saying on Amazon it's better than the DA2 for him, but I've never seen a comparison with the DA3.

 :(
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 25 Apr 2018, 12:29 am
Looks like they put it on the slowest boat they could find  :lol: Anyway I'll update when it arrives.

Duo you have the da3 to compare it with?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 25 Apr 2018, 12:34 am
You mean powered externally from like an idefender? What is the power source? You need at least 5.5v source to the LT to get 5v out to a dac.

Oh dang. I wanted to get away just with the usb power  :lol: I use sabaj da3 and Scarlett solo
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 25 Apr 2018, 03:40 am
Duo you have the da3 to compare it with?

No (?)

The NX4 should work with my iphone but I don't think the DA3 will (current).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: restrav on 25 Apr 2018, 09:36 pm
this is the weirdest one i have seen so far. i mean i know for sure, that USB decoder chip can not support hi rez

eBay link (https://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFi-TDA1543-DAC-Digital-Audio-Decoder-with-SA9227-USB-Card-DSD-32bit-384K-Black/272769533312?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D51377%26meid%3D8c8fee24f33f4b0e82faaa748fe2b8e2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D192493247728%26itm%3D272769533312&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A93ffa438-48cd-11e8-9a0c-74dbd180853a%7Cparentrq%3Afea7f2941620ab6bb7121147fffa4715%7Ciid%3A1)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JDUBS on 26 Apr 2018, 04:07 am
No (?)

The NX4 should work with my iphone but I don't think the DA3 will (current).

The DA3 works with the iPhone.  I'm using that combo now.

Need the camera kit, tho.

-Jim
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 26 Apr 2018, 07:43 am
Oh! I wonder... well, I better look into that closer, but I guess I don't need more than one new DAC/amp :lol: The NX4 DSD will need the CCK too but it will mostly be used at home or in the car. (Unless I don't like it, of course.)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 26 Apr 2018, 07:44 am
this is the weirdest one i have seen so far. i mean i know for sure, that USB decoder chip can not support hi rez

The TDA1543 is a 16-bit chip  :scratch:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JohnR on 27 Apr 2018, 09:43 am
It's here!

Initial impressions on the sound connected to a computer are very positive. However I can't get it to work with my iphone or ipad  :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:

That's with the USB3 CCK, I need to try and find my USB2 CCK and try that.
My bad, it works just fine - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157283.msg1683835#msg1683835

Otherwise, I guess I'll try a RPi.

PS Dadbeh I'm going to edit that link to fix the page layout.. ;)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Alaundo on 27 Apr 2018, 04:36 pm
I just figured out that Da3 has output impedance 10 Ohm (da2 - 0,4 Ohm). Is this true? Does it mean that Da3 not so good for low impedance headphones?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: meringo on 29 Apr 2018, 03:35 pm
I decided to pick up a DA3 for my desktop setup (HD6XX.) Obviously, the DA3 is a bit underpowered for them -- what's the best way to use this as a DAC running into an amp? Full volume, or drop it a bit? This doesn't seem to put out a lot of power, so I'm thinking max volume is the best to simulate an aux out type of thing.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 1 May 2018, 01:07 am
this is the weirdest one i have seen so far. i mean i know for sure, that USB decoder chip can not support hi rez


The SA9227 does support hi res. It's what's in my Hifime. However the TDA does not. So it's a very misleading listing.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 1 May 2018, 01:10 am
I decided to pick up a DA3 for my desktop setup (HD6XX.) Obviously, the DA3 is a bit underpowered for them -- what's the best way to use this as a DAC running into an amp? Full volume, or drop it a bit? This doesn't seem to put out a lot of power, so I'm thinking max volume is the best to simulate an aux out type of thing.

Thoughts?

For SennHDs I would recommend getting an external amp as well. The DA3 can drive your phones, but they won't sound their best.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: meringo on 1 May 2018, 10:34 pm
For SennHDs I would recommend getting an external amp as well. The DA3 can drive your phones, but they won't sound their best.

Oh, I've got it plugged into an Aune X7S (magical) but am wondering if I should set the DA3 to max volume (currently doing so, without noticeable degradation)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 2 May 2018, 06:18 am
Oh, I've got it plugged into an Aune X7S (magical) but am wondering if I should set the DA3 to max volume (currently doing so, without noticeable degradation)

The volume is controlled digitally by the dac so whatever setting works best for you should be fine.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Kain on 7 May 2018, 06:52 pm
Hey guys , help me please

i wanna buy sabaj da 3 or smsl iq for using it with

oneplus5t + sony xba n1ap only

which one should i use ? cuz idk about android working good with thoses and my hp
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 10 May 2018, 08:54 am
Hey guys , help me please

i wanna buy sabaj da 3 or smsl iq for using it with

oneplus5t + sony xba n1ap only

which one should i use ? cuz idk about android working good with thoses and my hp

Sabaj da 3 works fine but drinks battery. Go for smsl iq. Also buy an isilencer  :)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ohenry on 10 May 2018, 09:48 pm
I recently received a Topping D10 USB dac from Massdrop.  Also, I bought a DH Labs USB interconnect and run it on a simple Chromebook with Tidal hifi.  Initially, I was on the fence, but after 25 hours, things are getting better.  It is a bit better than the Chromecast audio I was using, although going wireless is nice.  The D10 seems to image better, can play hi-res files (haven't tried yet), and the frequency response seems extended over the Chromecast.  It has become noticeably smoother in the highs and is a great buy for $75.  I'd love to try the D50, but this will be okay in a second system for now.  Another cool thing is with Chromebook, it was plug and play.  No driver download needed.

So, if you want a USB dac on a budget, this one is good.  And, you can switch out the opamp if you want to play with it.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Kain on 11 May 2018, 09:28 am
Sabaj da 3 works fine but drinks battery. Go for smsl iq. Also buy an isilencer  :)

thanks ) got smsl iq on aliexpress , ill tell how itl go when itl comes
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 27 May 2018, 10:24 pm
Has anyone modified the Sabaj Da3?  If yes, what were the modification and how did the sound change?  Is there a way to disable the filter?  I want to try the DAC with HQPlayer and would like to disable the filter on the DAC and leverage the HQP filters.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: DZetye on 27 May 2018, 10:44 pm
My Sabaj Da3 is up for sale in the classified circles if anybody is looking for one
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 May 2018, 01:01 am
Has anyone modified the Sabaj Da3?  If yes, what were the modification and how did the sound change?  Is there a way to disable the filter?  I want to try the DAC with HQPlayer and would like to disable the filter on the DAC and leverage the HQP filters.

The filters can not be disabled. I'm not sure what DAC would allow you to do that. There's always some kind of filter. Unless for HQPlayer you mean something like the iFi Dacs that have a dedicated DSD chip for the least amount of processing.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 8 Jun 2018, 01:12 am
Hello all, was interested in the SMSL IDEA/Sabaj DA2, but I recently came across this:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852

(https://i.imgur.com/P9zyjuL.jpg)

Weiliang/Breeze Audio SE4 USB DAC ES9028 with SA9226 USB chip

Based on the specs, could it be even better and somehow much, much cheaper?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 10 Jun 2018, 08:52 am
Hello all, was interested in the SMSL IDEA/Sabaj DA2, but I recently came across this:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852

(https://i.imgur.com/P9zyjuL.jpg)

Weiliang/Breeze Audio SE4 USB DAC ES9028 with SA9226 USB chip

Based on the specs, could it be even better and somehow much, much cheaper?

I'm already a very satisfied user of the Sabaj DA3 (helped brilliantly by an iDefender) but, at the spur of the moment, I've ordered a Weiland Audio SE4 DAC from here:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-SE4-PC-Phone-USB-Decoder-SA9226-ES9028Q2M-Audio-DAC-Support-DSD-New/273266457017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-SE4-PC-Phone-USB-Decoder-SA9226-ES9028Q2M-Audio-DAC-Support-DSD-New/273266457017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)

I'll share the listening experience as soon as possible... currently waiting patiently for the arrival of the package dispatched from the Far East...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 10 Jun 2018, 10:35 am
I'm already a very satisfied user of the Sabaj DA3 (helped brilliantly by an iDefender) but, at the spur of the moment, I've ordered a Weiland Audio SE4 DAC from here:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-SE4-PC-Phone-USB-Decoder-SA9226-ES9028Q2M-Audio-DAC-Support-DSD-New/273266457017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-SE4-PC-Phone-USB-Decoder-SA9226-ES9028Q2M-Audio-DAC-Support-DSD-New/273266457017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)

I'll share the listening experience as soon as possible... currently waiting patiently for the arrival of the package dispatched from the Far East...

Weiliang/Breeze Audio released a similarly spec E19 but with a built-in battery and more power (judging from the op-amp in pics included). 

that dual-dac DA3 seems amazing value though, as with the SMSL IQ.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 21 Jun 2018, 08:46 am
Investing in the cleanest power supply you can manage outweighs the value of the dac. This Lipo4(?)/LT3045 battery option showed up recently. I don't see the iPower competing with it, especially for the cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LT3045-Battery-Regulated-Power-Supply-5V/273135946356?hash=item3f982bca74:g:vFIAAOSweq5av1nP

If you have the skills and want to really take your dac to a new level, replace the iPower with not one, but *two* LT3045 low noise regulators in series. I have a 6v board that feeds a 5v board. I can't overstate the impact. Floored me.

I tried to buy that now the item is getting upgraded I don't know why. Can anyone explain what does he/she means? It doesn't sound like an "upgrade". It sounds like a different thing.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181681)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: randytsuch on 21 Jun 2018, 02:32 pm
I tried to buy that now the item is getting upgraded I don't know why. Can anyone explain what does he/she means? It doesn't sound like an "upgrade". It sounds like a different thing.

Did he change the listing to reflect this?
I see a listing for a lifepo4 PS for $36.66 + 1.85 shipping.
If this is the original listing still, sounds like bait and switch.  I'd complain to the seller and demand the PS listed at the original price, then escalate to ebay if he cant or won't comply.

And I can't really tell what the change is from that description.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 21 Jun 2018, 08:30 pm
Did he change the listing to reflect this?
I see a listing for a lifepo4 PS for $36.66 + 1.85 shipping.
If this is the original listing still, sounds like bait and switch.  I'd complain to the seller and demand the PS listed at the original price, then escalate to ebay if he cant or won't comply.

And I can't really tell what the change is from that description.
Doesn't look like bait and switch. now its $45 + 12 : https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-LT3045-5V-500MA-Battery-Regulator-Power-Supply-For-Home-Audio/312088447246?hash=item48a9ebc90e:g:P9cAAOSwv2taqxcz

They are going to send me the images in a day or two.

Update: They didn't for 2 weeks so I'm canceling my order.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 13 Jul 2018, 05:58 am
I'm already a very satisfied user of the Sabaj DA3 (helped brilliantly by an iDefender) but, at the spur of the moment, I've ordered a Weiland Audio SE4 DAC from here:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-SE4-PC-Phone-USB-Decoder-SA9226-ES9028Q2M-Audio-DAC-Support-DSD-New/273266457017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-SE4-PC-Phone-USB-Decoder-SA9226-ES9028Q2M-Audio-DAC-Support-DSD-New/273266457017?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)

I'll share the listening experience as soon as possible... currently waiting patiently for the arrival of the package dispatched from the Far East...


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182405)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182406)

I've received the £38 SE4 USB DAC and and had plenty of time to test it... No driver needed for Linux (Mint 19 in my case). No driver needed for Windows 10 but Windows 7 will require the supplied Savitech driver.

The enclosure is well-made with no design frills, just functional look. The metal of choice is aluminium.

It works fine with low impedance headphones and it has plenty of volume driving AKG K702 cans (60 Ohm). The midrange has more presence than DA3, making the sound brighter which in turn makes it slightly uncomfortable for prolongued listening IMHO.

DA3 has better instruments separation, wider soundstage and 'darker' sound. Mind you it is not a 'night and day' difference...

For testing I've used a range of digital files: 320 kbps mp3, 16/24 bit flac and DSD64/128. All performed very well; I don't have any DSD256/512 native files but i've upsampled in JRiver to DSD512 and the sound was fine. I am not going to go in any detail over whether the sound is better when upsampling to the highest DSD sampling available in the playback application over the native file playback..

I've left the SE4 running music files quite a few nights for 'running in' the components. No ABX testing, just my brain and ear perception with the unavoidable volume change pitfalls... The sound is more than acceptable, the SE4 is a good choice for somebody that wants to play any mainstream music files for a very low price.

Sabaj DA3 still stays as a favourite budget USB DAC in my book  :thumb:



 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 14 Jul 2018, 05:50 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182405)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182406)

I've received the £38 SE4 USB DAC and and had plenty of time to test it... No driver needed for Linux (Mint 19 in my case). No driver needed for Windows 10 but Windows 7 will require the supplied Savitech driver.

The enclosure is well-made with no design frills, just functional look. The metal of choice is aluminium.

It works fine with low impedance headphones and it has plenty of volume driving AKG K702 cans (60 Ohm). The midrange has more presence than DA3, making the sound brighter which in turn makes it slightly uncomfortable for prolongued listening IMHO.

DA3 has better instruments separation, wider soundstage and 'darker' sound. Mind you it is not a 'night and day' difference...

For testing I've used a range of digital files: 320 kbps mp3, 16/24 bit flac and DSD64/128. All performed very well; I don't have any DSD256/512 native files but i've upsampled in JRiver to DSD512 and the sound was fine. I am not going to go in any detail over whether the sound is better when upsampling to the highest DSD sampling available in the playback application over the native file playback..

I've left the SE4 running music files quite a few nights for 'running in' the components. No ABX testing, just my brain and ear perception with the unavoidable volume change pitfalls... The sound is more than acceptable, the SE4 is a good choice for somebody that wants to play any mainstream music files for a very low price.

Sabaj DA3 still stays as a favourite budget USB DAC in my book  :thumb:

wew, granted that the DA3 costs nearly triple the SE4, so that's quite a good performance already. Basically namesake of this thread, quality DAC for peanuts.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 15 Jul 2018, 01:48 pm
wew, granted that the DA3 costs nearly triple the SE4, so that's quite a good performance already. Basically namesake of this thread, quality DAC for peanuts.

I paid £38 for SE4 from the quoted supplier (Far East) and £76 for DA3 from Amazon UK...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 15 Jul 2018, 02:40 pm
I paid £38 for SE4 from the quoted supplier (Far East) and £76 for DA3 from Amazon UK...

oh, the SE4 is quite marked up there. SE4 costs around rmb188 while the DA3 is rmb550 in china.

these are the links to their official store, if anyone who wants to test purchasing them using an agent/forwarder. I prefer using an agent since I can ask them to contact the seller for more info.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852


https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-13818111186.17.399642e8YkSq0h&id=555795685148
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: envydd on 17 Jul 2018, 12:47 am
Anyone compared Topping D50 and DX7S here?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 17 Jul 2018, 02:21 am
Anyone compared Topping D50 and DX7S here?

not sure if this fits your requirement of a comparison, but ASR measured both units recently (also, not sure if I'm allowed to post links to other forums, do remind me if its not, thank you)

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-d50-dac.2403/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-dx7s-dac-and-headphone-amp.2378/
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: envydd on 17 Jul 2018, 02:57 am
Thx. Read those. However they are close and are measurements. My use is for a dac and preamp. I have power amps already - nuprime!

Want to see if the cheap DACs sound better to my ears.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 28 Jul 2018, 04:30 am
I made a usb stick with a lt3045 board that looks exactly like isilencer. Now there is no need for idefender and ipower. Cleaning power made as much if not more difference than isilencer! Lt3045 rules!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 29 Jul 2018, 03:13 pm
anyone have experience with this dac?

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-OriGen-G2-Resolution-Preamplifier/dp/B01N14SY65
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 29 Jul 2018, 04:35 pm
anyone have experience with this dac?

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-OriGen-G2-Resolution-Preamplifier/dp/B01N14SY65

Uses an older Wolfson chip and analog volume control. Was never a fan of the Wolfson chips myself. Some people like the C-Media chip more than XMOS. The selling point seems to be the 5.7v to drive difficult headphones and amps. Other than that I'd say it's over-priced. But who knows, so much has changed in ten years. Maybe the Wolfson sounds better now with a good power supply and better software...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 30 Jul 2018, 07:03 am
anyone have experience with this dac?

https://www.amazon.com/Micca-OriGen-G2-Resolution-Preamplifier/dp/B01N14SY65

looked around quite a lot of impressions on the net since I like the design, most of them liked it with no glaring problems. The main thing that cropped up was driver issues, which may have been solved since it was released a year ago.

ASR had a faulty unit of the old G+ (different USB controller and DAC chip), unfortunately, but even then, it performed quite admirably:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-micca-origen-usb-dac.1476/

the pesky USB issues probably prompted them to change the controller
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Tom Bombadil on 30 Jul 2018, 08:39 pm
Audio Advisor is selling the Music Hall DAC15.2 for $99.95.    Not the latest in technology but it offers a lot for the money. 

    Texas Instruments (Burr-Brown) PCM 1796
    24-bit, 192 kHz processor (24-bit, 96 kHz digital processing via USB input; 24-bit, 192 kHz digital processing via optical and coaxial inputs)
    Easily connects to PC and Apple computers
    Ultra-quiet external power supply
    extruded aluminum chassis

Connections

    3 digital inputs (USB, optical, coaxial)
    1 digital output (coaxial) – converts USB and optical digital input signals to coaxial digital output
    1 pair (RCA) analog outputs

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MHDAC15.2
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 30 Jul 2018, 11:06 pm
I made a usb stick with a lt3045 board that looks exactly like isilencer. Now there is no need for idefender and ipower. Cleaning power made as much if not more difference than isilencer! Lt3045 rules!

Can you share how you built it?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 31 Jul 2018, 03:48 am
looked around quite a lot of impressions on the net since I like the design, most of them liked it with no glaring problems. The main thing that cropped up was driver issues, which may have been solved since it was released a year ago.

ASR had a faulty unit of the old G+ (different USB controller and DAC chip), unfortunately, but even then, it performed quite admirably:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-micca-origen-usb-dac.1476/

the pesky USB issues probably prompted them to change the controller

yah according to Z review, the G2 version solves the driver issue.   Zeos likes it a lot.  But, I question his taste.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 31 Jul 2018, 03:50 am
Uses an older Wolfson chip and analog volume control. Was never a fan of the Wolfson chips myself. Some people like the C-Media chip more than XMOS. The selling point seems to be the 5.7v to drive difficult headphones and amps. Other than that I'd say it's over-priced. But who knows, so much has changed in ten years. Maybe the Wolfson sounds better now with a good power supply and better software...

i like the form factor more so than other dacs around the same size.  it also comes in an integrated amp form factor.  i am not sure which i prefer assuming there's a bit of audio advantage going with separates.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 1 Aug 2018, 06:51 pm
Can you share how you built it?

Bought it on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-Noise-LT3045-Linear-Regulator-Power-Supply-Board-3-3V-5V-12V-DC-Converter/222553699110 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-Noise-LT3045-Linear-Regulator-Power-Supply-Board-3-3V-5V-12V-DC-Converter/222553699110)

seems 3.3V is enough for sabaj da3 but not for scarlett solo. Maybe I can do something for Note 4 battery that makes it better  :lol:

 Wire it like this, if you bought one with potentiometer play with it until V is right:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182977)

Talk about peanuts... spend $15 instead of $100 if you use it with Pc's. Up next I will 3d print a case for da3 with isilencer + ipower with lt3045 and 2 panasonic 18650 batteries. x2 more battery and x2-3 cheaper than Chord Mojo. Can also charge my phone :lol:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 4 Aug 2018, 09:30 pm
Update: Scarlett works without any problem getting power from 2 usbs instead of one going to lt3045. Makes it pretty sweet. Now this little thing became a must have device for me for any usb audio interface.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183088)

Haven't tried if it effected the xlr input which matters a lot to me. Will update this post when I do  :wink:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Doublej on 5 Aug 2018, 10:36 pm
Where can one find a USB cable like the one in karnana's post?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 5 Aug 2018, 11:08 pm
On Amazon
https://www.amazon.de/ELECOM-Double-Power-3-0-Kabel-usb3-aamb5dpbk/dp/B00GLKR6B4/ref=sr_1_10?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1533510446&sr=1-10&keywords=double+usb+power+cable

or AliExpress
https://it.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20180805151139&SearchText=double+usb+cable
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 20 Aug 2018, 12:55 pm
New windows driver XMOS_USBAudio_v4.47.0_2018-08-06_debug (http://www.sabaj.com.cn/Upload/download/20180815170728165.rar) for Da3, Da2, D4, Idea, IQ, etc released by Sabaj.

Identical driver/file for XMOS-based DACs is also released by SMSL. (http://www.smsl-audio.com/Upload/download/20181016105259117.rar)

As usual no changelog or details about the update.

Tested and working fine with with Sabaj Da2.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 22 Aug 2018, 02:40 pm
thanks for posting the newer sabaj da3 driver, still using this dac and very happy with the quality
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 22 Aug 2018, 10:38 pm
I am looking at recommendations for a C&C DAC that has optical input for a TV.  It cannot be usb powered. And it must be under $100.  I would like to find a used Schiit Modi but no luck so far.  Please don't recommend the Fiio D3 as it sounds like crap, even for TV.

Thanks!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: walkern on 11 Oct 2018, 04:27 pm
There is a Modi 2 Uber on e-bay right now for $70 with a 'buy it now' of $110 plus shipping... if you haven't found a DAC yet.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: pinkfloyd4ever on 11 Oct 2018, 08:01 pm
I am looking at recommendations for a C&C DAC that has optical input for a TV.  It cannot be usb powered. And it must be under $100.  I would like to find a used Schiit Modi but no luck so far.  Please don't recommend the Fiio D3 as it sounds like crap, even for TV.

Thanks!

How about a used Topping D30? Or a new one if you can stretch to $120
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ExileSt on 11 Oct 2018, 08:45 pm
Audioquest Beetle is marked down to $99 on Amazon.  https://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Beetle-Toslink-Asynchronous-Bluetooth/dp/B071KXLW7W  (not an affiliate link.)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: fredgarvin on 11 Oct 2018, 10:41 pm
I am looking at recommendations for a C&C DAC that has optical input for a TV.  It cannot be usb powered. And it must be under $100.  I would like to find a used Schiit Modi but no luck so far.  Please don't recommend the Fiio D3 as it sounds like crap, even for TV.

Thanks!

Schiit has a new Modi just introduced, the Modi 3 $99 and includes optical and coaxial.

http://www.schiit.com/products/modi-1
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 5 Nov 2018, 10:53 pm
I want to use Sabaj Da3 with iPhone SE and I believe all I need for that is to get a camera kit and usb to usb-c cable correct?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Stu Pitt on 17 Nov 2018, 03:00 pm
I don’t know about the DAC in question, but I just got a camera kit for my iPhone SE and it works on my Rega DAC. Current iOS software and all that.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Jack667 on 18 Nov 2018, 09:47 pm
I picked up a great dac on amazon for 200 (although it’s gone up a bit in price now)

SMSL M8 ES9018 24Bit/384KHz DSD DAC Optical Coaxial XMOS USB Asynchronous decoder https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PS0WLX6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_F2D8BbB83SDF9
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 1 Dec 2018, 01:55 am
The Sabaj DA2 just arrived, color me impressed.  Works fine with my Samsung phone and HP laptop, no issues with noises or anything.  Awesome detail, good headstage, great bass impact.  Download the new driver no issues.  This is my first ESS Sabre dac and although it was a little harsh at first, an hour of break in and it smoothed right out.   What is the complaint about these chips I keep reading about?  Everyone says "if you can deal with the ESS sound", which is...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mrhyfy on 1 Dec 2018, 02:18 am
I made a balanced 2.5mm plug cable to XLR  for my Sabaj DA3.  Sabaj responded to my email requesting the pin assignment of the 2.5 mm plug.
Here's what they sent me...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=187457)

works great,, one trick, I had connect the 3.5 mm plug to amp also, in order to ground the DAC to the amp.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 1 Dec 2018, 04:09 am
smsl sanskrit 10th anniversary edition.. been using it a couple weeks.. sounds great, the remote control has a very nice volume up/down feature.. and it can take an external 5v power supply.. been using my jays audio 5v linear power supply.  very nice.  uses microusb though.. wish it was usb-b
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 3 Dec 2018, 04:45 am
The Sabaj DA2 just arrived, color me impressed.  Works fine with my Samsung phone and HP laptop, no issues with noises or anything.  Awesome detail, good headstage, great bass impact.  Download the new driver no issues.  This is my first ESS Sabre dac and although it was a little harsh at first, an hour of break in and it smoothed right out.   What is the complaint about these chips I keep reading about?  Everyone says "if you can deal with the ESS sound", which is...

 :beer:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 3 Dec 2018, 04:57 am
smsl sanskrit 10th anniversary edition.. been using it a couple weeks.. sounds great, the remote control has a very nice volume up/down feature.. and it can take an external 5v power supply.. been using my jays audio 5v linear power supply.  very nice.  uses microusb though.. wish it was usb-b

Wow, might try one out for kicks. Haven't heard an AKM DAC in a while. 4-6 month DAC turnaround time has peaked and no new chips on the horizon so the new models have more and more features for less. This SMSL has coax AND optical AND NDK clocks AND a remote for $93? Amazing.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: randytsuch on 3 Dec 2018, 02:23 pm
Wow, might try one out for kicks. Haven't heard an AKM DAC in a while. 4-6 month DAC turnaround time has peaked and no new chips on the horizon so the new models have more and more features for less. This SMSL has coax AND optical AND NDK clocks AND a remote for $93? Amazing.

On massdrop, but drop ends in 18 hours, for $75
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 3 Dec 2018, 02:55 pm
wushuliu one guy on headfi reviewed it and said it wasn't quite as good as sabaj da3, but I really wanted something with a remote for volume and that I could use my jay's audio 5v lps on so this was perfect.  I like the sound a lot, seems warmer than the sabaj da3. 

here's a quick video showing the remote changing volume.  it's nice and smooth and responsive
https://youtu.be/wLsQ5BVWPFw (https://youtu.be/wLsQ5BVWPFw)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 3 Dec 2018, 03:12 pm
Update on the Sabaj Da2 I recieved on Nov 30.  I previously said no issues with android, then the next time I tried Spotify on my Samsung the dreaded buzzing, ok on Pandora.  Then the next day Pandora buzzing as well.  Google reveals otg usb reads the Sabaj as a hard drive or worse, a device that needs charging.  Unhelpful stuff about accessing the usb settings and changing to MIDI, most android phones won't let you access that.   Finally somebody says turn the app on before hooking up the Sabaj, bingo.   I remembered this is what I had done in the previous session by chance.  So far no more buzzing, I didn't read back through the thread to see if this had been covered or not.   Any experience with this from others?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: skinnie on 4 Dec 2018, 07:08 am
Hi, just registered on this forum mainly because of this thread  :D
I was searching for a DAC/Amp for my Alessandro MS1i (Grado, 32ohm)  headphones (and my laptop). As many of you the first results on google about "cheap" DACs point you Dragonfly Red and somo ifi models.
I was searching for something cheaper, and found some other models already stated here but also this ones:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ES9038Q2M-XMOS-XU208-HIFI-audio-USB-decoder-DAC-support-DSD-Headphone-amp-out/253969030505

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ES9028Q2M-ES9028-Hi-Fi-USB-DAC-SA9023-24bit-USB-DAC-Sound-Card-3-5-Headphone-Out/264059909676

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOPPING-D10-DAC-ES9018K2M-XMOS-XU208-USB-Optical-Coaxial-PCM384-Native-DSD256/352345849685

Does anyone have experience with any of this ones?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 5 Dec 2018, 06:05 am
On massdrop, but drop ends in 18 hours, for $75

Got one from Amazon. It's a slick looking DAC. So far sound is woolly on low end and a bit splashy on highs but good overall. Maybe not as good as Sabaj DA3, but I no longer have one to compare. The other features and remote are excellent though.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 5 Dec 2018, 02:02 pm
So to cut a long story - what is the best budget DAC right now ?
I am thinking about that SE4:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852
there are two version:
SE4-SE ~20.86$  SA9226 processing solution + ES9028Q2M  (supporting DSD)
SE4        ~28.16$  PCM2706 +  ES9028Q2M    (not supporting DSD = PCM2706)

What do you think about that DAC ? Is it ok - I heard it is quite good considering price/value.  :D
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 5 Dec 2018, 03:45 pm
So to cut a long story - what is the best budget DAC right now ?
I am thinking about that SE4:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852
there are two version:
SE4-SE ~20.86$  SA9226 processing solution + ES9028Q2M  (supporting DSD)
SE4        ~28.16$  PCM2706 +  ES9028Q2M    (not supporting DSD = PCM2706)

What do you think about that DAC ? Is it ok - I heard it is quite good considering price/value.  :D

I don’t have access to nor can I order from taobao so I dont know about those dacs. They do not sound familiar.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 5 Dec 2018, 10:48 pm
I don’t have access to nor can I order from taobao so I dont know about those dacs. They do not sound familiar.

They're the Breeze Audio/ Weilang SE4 dacs.  Two models with the same ES9028Q2M chip, different usb decoders so one does DSD and the other doesn't.   Looks like about a dozen different brands marketing the same unit.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 5 Dec 2018, 11:19 pm
They're the Breeze Audio/ Weilang SE4 dacs.  Two models with the same ES9028Q2M chip, different usb decoders so one does DSD and the other doesn't.   Looks like about a dozen different brands marketing the same unit.
I will not listen to DSD files for sure - so should I go for PCM2706 version ? Probably  SA9226 is much better/newer decoder than PCM2706.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 6 Dec 2018, 02:39 pm
I really don't know much about the usb chips or the headphone amp chips, but you can find out a great deal about them in the web.  My guess is the dsd input is usb 2.0 and the other is 1.0 so it will work better with phones.  Since that's not your intended use I'd go with the better 2.0 usb if you can confirm that.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 6 Dec 2018, 04:31 pm
My guess is the dsd input is usb 2.0 and the other is 1.0 so it will work better with phones.  Since that's not your intended use I'd go with the better 2.0 usb if you can confirm that.

Agreed.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 6 Dec 2018, 05:19 pm
Agreed.
Ok - so I will choose SA9226 version. I am searching for DAC to use with PC and connect it to DIY TPA6120 headphone amp - so probably it would be better to have proper RCA sockets on DAC (I have some good quality rca cables) - but I will also find some rca to jack cable in a shelf ;-)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 6 Dec 2018, 05:24 pm
So to cut a long story - what is the best budget DAC right now ?
I am thinking about that SE4:
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852
there are two version:
SE4-SE ~20.86$  SA9226 processing solution + ES9028Q2M  (supporting DSD)
SE4        ~28.16$  PCM2706 +  ES9028Q2M    (not supporting DSD = PCM2706)

What do you think about that DAC ? Is it ok - I heard it is quite good considering price/value.  :D

I have the SE4 and have it hooked constantly on my PC for more than 2 months now, I think? Installation was fairly easy, Win7 needed a driver from them (available for download), works with all software and games. Output impedance measured at 11 ohms (I might need to re-measure using a lower resistor rating, used 100 ohm to load the DAC). Unfortunately I don't use Foobar so I can't tell you if that works, but I suppose it shouldn't be an issue. Android (Samsung S5), plug-and-play with the HibyMusic app (I like the HQ USB option more than the Onkyo app), no issues though it does drain the battery, as usual.

Basic Sabre sound (not really noticeable unless your gear is also really bright and "dry"), some minor hiss when used with super sensitive IEMs like the CA Andromeda (understandable due to the 11ohm OI), gets only a bit warm to the touch.

Ran most of my high-impedance earbuds (150ohms and above) and headphones fairly easily.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 6 Dec 2018, 05:48 pm
I have found today also SA9227+ES9038Q2M combo boards = but price is higher than SE4 ;-) sth like 43$
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.0.0.474c319dc3FiUe&id=575728410474
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zerohour88 on 12 Dec 2018, 04:04 pm
I have found today also SA9227+ES9038Q2M combo boards = but price is higher than SE4 ;-) sth like 43$
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.0.0.474c319dc3FiUe&id=575728410474

the specs are tempting, but isn't that a decoder board instead of a USB DAC?

Edit: ah, my mistake, its actually possible run as USB DAC

https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i4/0/O1CN01Vmx1qX1KykpXh8SX2_!!0-rate.jpg_400x400.jpg


It seems Breeze Audio has also released another ES9038Q2M based DAC, the SU2A

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.71.7c5a1cfaHNiEVT&id=581695887971
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 20 Dec 2018, 10:45 pm
Update on the Sabaj Da2 I recieved on Nov 30.  I previously said no issues with android, then the next time I tried Spotify on my Samsung the dreaded buzzing, ok on Pandora.  Then the next day Pandora buzzing as well.  Google reveals otg usb reads the Sabaj as a hard drive or worse, a device that needs charging.  Unhelpful stuff about accessing the usb settings and changing to MIDI, most android phones won't let you access that.   Finally somebody says turn the app on before hooking up the Sabaj, bingo.   I remembered this is what I had done in the previous session by chance.  So far no more buzzing, I didn't read back through the thread to see if this had been covered or not.   Any experience with this from others?
no issue with my da3. Works great I'm very happy with it. 3d printing a custom box for it to be lighter. :lol:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 21 Dec 2018, 03:49 pm
The Da2 is so light I can't tell that it's attached, it's the Da3 significantly heavier?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Dec 2018, 04:35 pm
The Da2 is so light I can't tell that it's attached, it's the Da3 significantly heavier?

A little. The enclosure is metal and it has the led display.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Dec 2018, 07:45 pm
wushuliu one guy on headfi reviewed it and said it wasn't quite as good as sabaj da3, but I really wanted something with a remote for volume and that I could use my jay's audio 5v lps on so this was perfect.  I like the sound a lot, seems warmer than the sabaj da3. 

here's a quick video showing the remote changing volume.  it's nice and smooth and responsive
https://youtu.be/wLsQ5BVWPFw (https://youtu.be/wLsQ5BVWPFw)

Evidently ASR was informed by SMSL, based on egregious measurements taken, that best performance is obtained by using an external power supply. So I will give that a go before returning.

That is the proper use of measurements: as a tool to diagnose potential defects and rectify performance anomalies.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 31 Dec 2018, 03:08 am
Can confirm the SMSL sounds *much* better with a good external PS and using the coaxial input vs just usb.
OT: I regret getting rid of my Singxer F1. I think having a good usb/spdif converter to coax connection consistently gives cleaner sounding results vs. usb, even if the usb has new xmos converter. Even the cheap F1 knock off I have sounds pretty good.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 7 Jan 2019, 03:17 pm
I gave up on isilencer idefender portable sabaj da3. Disconnects are too often. I'm looking for a "poor mans xDSD" until I buy an iFi xDSD (instead of Chord Mojo). Does anyone know a portable bluetooth dac for peanuts? :P

Has anyone tried FiiO BTR3 ? is AK376A chip any good?  :?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 7 Jan 2019, 11:21 pm
Has anyone tried this cheap DAC? :eyebrows:
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/Nobsound-Mini-DAC-ES9028Q2M-SE4-Amplificatore-Portatile-DSD-HiFi-Audio-Decoder-USB-per-PC-e-il/32884715706.html
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 7 Jan 2019, 11:36 pm
Has anyone tried this cheap DAC? :eyebrows:
https://it.aliexpress.com/item/Nobsound-Mini-DAC-ES9028Q2M-SE4-Amplificatore-Portatile-DSD-HiFi-Audio-Decoder-USB-per-PC-e-il/32884715706.html (https://it.aliexpress.com/item/Nobsound-Mini-DAC-ES9028Q2M-SE4-Amplificatore-Portatile-DSD-HiFi-Audio-Decoder-USB-per-PC-e-il/32884715706.html)


Looking at that circuit board, I can't see why it would sound any better than any of the other cheap DAC's already listed here.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 8 Jan 2019, 05:40 pm

Looking at that circuit board, I can't see why it would sound any better than any of the other cheap DAC's already listed here.
I have bought it on taobao - still waiting for package - it was sth like ~28$.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 8 Jan 2019, 09:59 pm
I have bought it on taobao - still waiting for package - it was sth like ~28$.
Please share your impressions when the package arrives. Thanks in advance. :thumb:
There are two models - with DSD and without DSD, which you have chosen?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 8 Jan 2019, 10:33 pm
Please share your impressions when the package arrives. Thanks in advance. :thumb:
There are two models - with DSD and without DSD, which you have chosen?
I have chosen option with DSD - because it uses both sabre chips. Option without DSD is using pcm2706 for USB decoding. You can read more about it few posts below. There are also so comments regarding this DAC.
Sth is wrong with packages from China in my country so it might take some time to deliver. Government made some additional tax post unit targeted at China only.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 9 Jan 2019, 12:05 am
I have chosen option with DSD - because it uses both sabre chips.
Not really, one is Savio and the other is Sabre. :eyebrows:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 9 Jan 2019, 01:33 am
I have bought it on taobao - still waiting for package - it was sth like ~28$.

$53 on Amazon, get it free shipping two days.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 9 Jan 2019, 01:11 pm
That $97 Sabaj Da3 is very tempting.  I don't have anything with the ESS DACs and do have a preamp with balanced inputs.  If it's crap, I could do without burning a C-note, but would be fun to check out.
I will test that chinese SE4 - I bought it because it could be "amazing DACs for peanuts" :-) 28$ :-) I have also bought some time ago some PCM5102 I2S dac for 8$ - it appeared to be better than custom made PCM2704.
I heard some good reviews about TOPPING D30 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-TOPPING-D30-DSD-Audio-Decoder-USB-DAC-Coaxial-Optical-Fiber-XMOS-CS4398-24Bit-192KHz-amplifier/32728107111.html?spm=2114.search0604.3.9.322b3be0ifsYNQ&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10068_319_317_10548_10696_10192_453_10084_454_10083_10618_431_10307_10821_10301_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=bcd063a1-91e5-4464-ba3d-ee57f1e2cae8-1&algo_pvid=bcd063a1-91e5-4464-ba3d-ee57f1e2cae8&transAbTest=ae803_5
but topping is more expensive ~120$ vs 28$. I think it could be my next dac upgrade.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 13 Jan 2019, 08:31 am
@baszek

The SE4 and the Topping D30 are wide apart in every respect and if you intend to get a D30 (or another more significant USB DAC) later on you'll find out that the REAL cost of that DAC will actually be augmented by the amount of money you've alreadys spent on the SE4 as you'll never go back to the SE4...  In a few words, buying an SE4 is a false money-saving exercise for somebody who intends to purchase a higher spec DAC later on.

I've given my own considerations in regards to SE4 a few months ago (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152638.msg1696306#msg1696306 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152638.msg1696306#msg1696306)). Mind you I've purchased that SE4 DAC with the purpose of introducing a good friend to the world of standalone USB DACs and HiRes digital files and such a gift for his birthday anniversary was a very good idea...

The 'avalanche' of low cost USB DACs from Far East is definately ruining the perception of what it should be the starting point of 'good sound' IMHO.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 22 Jan 2019, 10:27 pm
I will test that chinese SE4 - I bought it because it could be "amazing DACs for peanuts" :-) 28$ :-)
Did you get your SE-4 DAC? :eyebrows:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 27 Jan 2019, 04:21 pm
Every day something new.
It looks nice inside and outside.  :popcorn:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Finished-ES9038Q2M-Fiber-Coaxial-XMOS208-USB-Input-DAC-Decoder-LED-screen-HiFi-DAC-supports-DSD-2019/32965497522.html?spm=a2g0y.10010108.1000001.8.294f1022IuqwOt&transAbTest=ae803_4&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_4_10065_10068_319_10059_10884_317_10887_10696_100031_321_322_10084_453_10083_454_10103_433_10618_431_10307_537_536%2Csearchweb201603_6%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=50cf0be3-5e33-49ec-8717-3fea07542f73&algo_expid=50cf0be3-5e33-49ec-8717-3fea07542f73-33
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 27 Jan 2019, 09:51 pm
Did you get your SE-4 DAC? :eyebrows:
Yep. I was testing it whole day with TPA6120 + superlux HD330 headphones - and to be honest, I think that my DIY PCM2702 is better ;-), but SE4 definitely plays louder (might be some higher line-level output or sth) and is quite good for portable use with android. Most of my music is 16bit 44100Hz, so probably I will stay with my old DAC and try to find sth different.
I noticed also that sometimes musics gets distorted and I found similar comment on alliexpress:
"Shipping was about 8 week. Surprisingly good DAC! For my ears, better than any XMOS+AK4490 or PCM179x/PCM510x DAC. I can't beleive, how this real economy eletronic design could sounding well. It has only one 12MHz system oscillator. The ES9028Q2M need an 100MHz oscillator or high freq clock from I2S (at least 192*FS) for high samle rate playback. Because it's missing, this DAC only could work with up to 96kHz sample rate well, above this, became very noisy. It's work well with android phones, just plug and play. For Win7, driver needed, you can find the latest driver if you google for "audiophonics NX2s driver" than download the 4.98M driver file. DS and ASIO working well, but it freeze with WASAPI."

I will probably sell it or leave for phone use.
I am thinking now about topping D30 or D10 (my friend bought D10 - so I will have it for few days for testing).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Jan 2019, 11:01 pm
Every day something new.
It looks nice inside and outside.  :popcorn:

Uh oh! Thanks for the link. Let's use a tiny url for this instead of that long one:
https://tinyurl.com/ycapoooa

Amazing indeed. The turnaround cycle is now cannibalizing the ES9038Q2M options since ESS has no other top chips except the PROs and those have not come down in price. So true to my 6mo cycle estimates we are now seeing *features* being added to these dacs and then halving the price. Paid $400 for a Pro-Ject with Coaxial last year? Oops, Topping and SMSL got it down to $250 earlier this year. Paid $250 for the Topping or SMSL? Oops, now we have a similar DAC at $120. XMOS 208 USB, Optical, Coax, OPA1612 opamps, and accepts external supply. All for $120. Unbelievable.

But here's what I like about this one: easy to mod. Nice and open layout. Voltage regulators and clocks are nice and accessible. Only one ESS chip, so imagine next cycle will have dual chips for the same price. At this price though there's no reason not to get one just as a backup/spare dac.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189614)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189615)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189616)



Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 28 Jan 2019, 12:12 am
For another $100 you can get a Pro-Ject DAC Box S2 Plus that is from a reputable company although probably still made in china-

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRDBXS2P&variation=BLK&gclid=CjwKCAiAyrXiBRAjEiwATI95mb6-5XIntzXD9OK67WUryR8FO7e14XTFBd1JAmrEmm4vMB_XAYjtTBoCei0QAvD_BwE
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 28 Jan 2019, 12:45 am
Yep. I was testing it whole day with TPA6120 + superlux HD330 headphones - and to be honest, I think that my DIY PCM2702 is better ;-),
Many thanks for info. :beer:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Jan 2019, 01:03 am
For another $100 you can get a Pro-Ject DAC Box S2 Plus that is from a reputable company although probably still made in china-

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRDBXS2P&variation=BLK&gclid=CjwKCAiAyrXiBRAjEiwATI95mb6-5XIntzXD9OK67WUryR8FO7e14XTFBd1JAmrEmm4vMB_XAYjtTBoCei0QAvD_BwE

That's one of the ones I referred to above. Only a year ago it was $400 I believe. Unfortunately that DAC has had its share of issues since it first rolled out, as discussed elsewhere. Perhaps they've ironed out the bugs. Also IIRC they did a bait and switch on some of the internals which at first was high quality top notch components but then taken out at some point. I believe the designer of that DAC was accessible at first but then taken off the team (?). Anyways, I'd much rather save the $120. One thing I'll say for the Cheap Chinese versions of these types of DACS - I rarely come across failure/defective issues. They just work (whether they are well designed and/or sound good is another story).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 28 Jan 2019, 09:40 am
ok, guys, so what do you recommend right now on the budget - I thought that that SE4 will be perfect, but it is not ;-)
Topping D30, Topping D10 or that ES9038Q2M mentioned above --> https://bit.ly/2ScVIZh ?
The be honest I would prefer to go under 50$, but if it is not possible I might invest that ~100$  (I am trying to build right now some stereo tpa3116 + speakers - so I think that it will better to spend more money  on speakers than super duper DAC). I don't even need any HI-RES DSD - just clear sound :-)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 28 Jan 2019, 02:44 pm
ok, guys, so what do you recommend right now on the budget - I thought that that SE4 will be perfect, but it is not ;-)
Topping D30, Topping D10 or that ES9038Q2M mentioned above --> https://bit.ly/2ScVIZh ?
The be honest I would prefer to go under 50$, but if it is not possible I might invest that ~100$  (I am trying to build right now some stereo tpa3116 + speakers - so I think that it will better to spend more money  on speakers than super duper DAC). I don't even need any HI-RES DSD - just clear sound :-)

The first post of this thread gave you options.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 29 Jan 2019, 12:04 am
The first post of this thread gave you options.
Yeah, but I am not looking for portable dacs like sabaj da2 or da3. I would like to have RCA outputs.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 29 Jan 2019, 03:06 am
Yeah, but I am not looking for portable dacs like sabaj da2 or da3. I would like to have RCA outputs.

I believe I explained that the DA3 is *not* meant to be a portable DAC even though they try to position it as such. It is a desktop DAC. Use a 3.5mm adapter.

You are not going to beat the DA3 at or under $100. Equal it maybe, but not beat it. It is a powerhouse DAC in small form. In fact it's the only DAC in the budget range where the price has gone *up* since it came out. Nuff said.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 29 Jan 2019, 10:31 am
I believe I explained that the DA3 is *not* meant to be a portable DAC even though they try to position it as such. It is a desktop DAC. Use a 3.5mm adapter.

You are not going to beat the DA3 at or under $100. Equal it maybe, but not beat it. It is a powerhouse DAC in small form. In fact it's the only DAC in the budget range where the price has gone *up* since it came out. Nuff said.
Ok I have just found that it has got unbalanced output - should be prefect for external headphone amp.
Output power: Balanced 32Ohm  111mW 64Ohm  111mW 300Ohm 52mW
Output power: Unbalanced 32Ohm 56mW 64Ohm 43mW 300Ohm 13mW
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 29 Jan 2019, 09:48 pm
Please share your impressions when the package arrives. Thanks in advance. :thumb:
There are two models - with DSD and without DSD, which you have chosen?
I wrote before about distortion from this DAC - it appeared that I have to set windows volume to 70% (instead of 100%) - this was the issue - probably my external TPA6120 heaphone amp was over-modulated by SE4 DAC --> now it is much better :-)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 29 Jan 2019, 10:22 pm
@baszek
Have you tested the SE4 with DSD64/DSD128 files?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 30 Jan 2019, 10:42 am
@baszek
Have you tested the SE4 with DSD64/DSD128 files?
Yeah, I have tested but only one album. Unfortunately I have configured foobar2000 as DSD over PCM -- as far as I know for native DSD I need ASIO drivers & can't find it --- taobao seller is not responding ;-)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 30 Jan 2019, 11:53 am
Yeah, I have tested but only one album. .. ;-)

And what are your impressions now for SE4 playing DSD?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 30 Jan 2019, 01:19 pm
And what are your impressions now for SE4 playing DSD?
To be honest I have downloaded Sting DSD album from torrents and in my opinion TIDAL master MQA version sounded better - I will download other DSD albums and let you know --> but still I think I have to wait for ASIO drivers to check native DSD. I heard also that people are using some foobar plugin to do upsampling to DSD :-) - this is crazy :-)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 30 Jan 2019, 02:01 pm
I believe I explained that the DA3 is *not* meant to be a portable DAC even though they try to position it as such. It is a desktop DAC. Use a 3.5mm adapter.

You are not going to beat the DA3 at or under $100. Equal it maybe, but not beat it. It is a powerhouse DAC in small form. In fact it's the only DAC in the budget range where the price has gone *up* since it came out. Nuff said.
I have just watched Sabaj DA3 review --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HazumFx7Q -- it looks like that every time you power on DAC volume is lowered down and you have to each time volume up to get that 2V output to home stereo level - it could be annoying :-)
@wushuliu can you confirm if there is such a issue each power on ?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ceausuc on 1 Feb 2019, 12:21 pm
Yeah, but I am not looking for portable dacs like sabaj da2 or da3. I would like to have RCA outputs.

I think Tone Board is as good as it gets in its price range (if you don't need volume control): https://www.khadas.com/tone
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ceausuc on 1 Feb 2019, 12:26 pm
I have just watched Sabaj DA3 review --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HazumFx7Q -- it looks like that every time you power on DAC volume is lowered down and you have to each time volume up to get that 2V output to home stereo level - it could be annoying :-)
@wushuliu can you confirm if there is such a issue each power on ?

It is true that the volume is lowered (22/36 if I remember correctly) but I found it very useful for headphone listening :)
And btw at max volume the sound seems "distorted"...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 4 Feb 2019, 02:36 pm
I have just watched Sabaj DA3 review --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HazumFx7Q -- it looks like that every time you power on DAC volume is lowered down and you have to each time volume up to get that 2V output to home stereo level - it could be annoying :-)
@wushuliu can you confirm if there is such a issue each power on ?

@baszek

This is not 'an issue'... on the contrary it is a very useful feature as it prevents one's hearing getting impaired, damaging speakers or annoying family/neighbours (in case of being used as a desktop DAC connected to an amplifier and loudspeakers). A careful owner of audio kit should be always aware of the volume already set on his/hers equipment, in this case DA3 does it for you... simples. If you have the case where you willy-nilly unplug/replug the USB cable (which carries the data and the 5V used to power up the DAC) then you are in a league of your own...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 4 Feb 2019, 02:38 pm
I have just watched Sabaj DA3 review --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8HazumFx7Q -- it looks like that every time you power on DAC volume is lowered down and you have to each time volume up to get that 2V output to home stereo level - it could be annoying :-)
@wushuliu can you confirm if there is such a issue each power on ?

Sorry... double post
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 4 Feb 2019, 03:19 pm
It is true that the volume is lowered (22/36 if I remember correctly) but I found it very useful for headphone listening :)
And btw at max volume the sound seems "distorted"...

@ceausc

The maximum normally means ZERO dB level (full output); if you hear any distortion at this level there is a problem in your music chain... I can confirm that I do not get any distortion playing the Sabaj DA3:
- running directly four types of headsets (one IEM, three over-the-ear, impedance range= 10-60 Ohm)
- running the above headphones via a dedicated headphone amplifier
- running directly a power amplifier via the AUX input (RCA Right + RCA Left)

The USB stream is provided by a range of: one tablet, one desktop PC and two laptops.

A very competent little DAC for the money I've spent almost one year ago.

Regarding the Khadas Tone Board it cannot be compared fairly to any of the DACs discussed so far as it is not a a one-stop solution as you'd need a custom case should you want to use it on-the-go; actually you'd need a case of some sort even you use it as a desktop solution. Please note that I am not discussing the merits of the sound produced by this DAC...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 12 Feb 2019, 08:47 pm
To cut a long story short - I was thinking right now about sth with RCA out put so I have probably only this choose:
1. Khadas Tone board
2. Topping D30
3. Topping D10
4. SMSL Sanskrit 10th AK4490 XMOS
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 12 Feb 2019, 11:36 pm
5. SMSL M-100 AK4452 XMOS XU208  :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: baszek on 13 Feb 2019, 06:39 pm
5. SMSL M-100 AK4452 XMOS XU208  :thumb:
I have just bought used khadas tone board generic edition = bought it for 80$ with shipment. I hope it will be pretty good - I will let you know probably within a month.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 16 Mar 2019, 01:19 pm
Did anyone listen to this DAC ?  :eyebrows:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-Lastest-Douk-audio-USB-Optical-Coaxial-DAC-Audio-Decoder-Headphone-Amplifier-OTG-PCM384K-DSD256-Free/32766419626.html?spm=a2g0y.10010108.1000001.12.71583ad0dRgSb8
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: lps_audio on 27 Mar 2019, 06:48 pm
Hi everybody,

a bit late to the party I guess.....anyway this is the very thread that introduced me to this forum.

Back then (about 1 year ago) I had bought the Sabaj Da3, so I had googled a bit for reviews/opinions and that is how I found this discussion.

Just like your opinions drove me to buy this dac, I will now post my review/impression after having spent lots of listening hours with it.

I had gotten interested in the Da3 as soon as it had been released, for the simple reason that I already possessed a Sabaj product, the headphnes amplifier named PHA2, and had been very impressed and happy with it.

The pha2 is an amplifier based on the well known ti tpa6120a2 and for the less than 50 euros that I paid for it, it is a killer deal.

I am not an expert in electronics, but looking at the pcb I'd say it is implemented with a fixed gain of some sort, cannot say how much but nothing selectable, and is powered by 5V either from power brick or it also has a mini USB port for portability.

I do not advise people to power it via USB ports tho, there is no noise filtering and that way the amp becomes audibly noisy. I also advise to change the power brick to something cleaner. The included transformer does not sound noisy but somehow imparts an (sometimes overly) warmth to the sound, I am not sure how but it makes the amp sound a bit like a tube amp, with rounded and thick mids.

Construction is very good and solid. Output impedance I never bothered to measure but to me sounds less than the standard 10 ohm seen in most TPA implementations.

The amplification is good ( good enough for me with low impedance cans) but not great. It is rated for 500+ mw into 32 ohms, but honestly I cannot hear them, to me it sounds more like 200-300mw.

However, it does sound very clean, no clipping whatsoever, and it is very cheap. I'd say it is transparent, expecially with an upgraded power supply.

So after this overall positive experience with a sabaj product, I decided to get their Da3 too.

It is a VERY nice entry level DAC.
Good solid build quality, nice thick aluminum case and firm grip on the desk thanks to the silicon pad. The display is very useful and nice. I also liked the solidity of the usb port and the 2.5 and 3.5 mm jacks, never had a glitch with them.

The control keys worked very well, never lost a step, however I do tend to prefer rotary knobs for volume adjustment.
 
As for the sound, the basic sound signature is exactly the typical Sabre 9018 sound : neutral to clinical (depends on personal preferences), very detailed.
I always prefered to use it with the "slow rolloff" setting to make the sound a bit more "analog" even tho I am aware there are conflicted opinions on this, but whatever.

Something that did, however, make a big difference in sound quality, is how clean the power fed to it was and the USB signal quality outputted by the computer source was too.

Just like other users in this thread, I experimented a lot with the so called USB decrapifiers, and found repeatable and definite improvements each time.

So it is very sensitive to the cleanliness of the source, and based on this it can sound from detailed and dynamic/energetic/very airy (clean source) to a bit overly analytic and "digital" (poor source).

Either cases, no background hiss can be heard. It has ok output power but not great, so it is mostly for low imp/high sensitivity cans. Audio Science review forum has measured it and came out fine.

While I have been quite happy with it throughout this past year, at the end of the day I am about to sell it bacause my headphones mostly suit warmer sources that have a more "analog", less detailed sound.

Ask me any further details on the two above products if you wish to.

Regards
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: OzarkTom on 27 Mar 2019, 11:16 pm
Massdrop x Grace Design Standard DAC
$80

Sorry, I have not heard this one, but I thought someone here might like it.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-grace-design-standard-dac?mode=shop_open&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=6127109657340&utm_term=6130648328140&utm_content=6130648327940&fe=delay_ftue%2Ccarousel%2Csu2&fbclid=IwAR3WQ6buSsEEJlF3I6sA3J-Ofl1lxzXShE60RY3cg8bN2jH-uCWfaTvVT2o
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 14 Apr 2019, 09:24 am
For those looking for a 5.1 or 7.1 dac... Xonar U 7 MKII is a 7.1 dac  that is decent but not great. Punchy, silent but lacks sabaj da3's clarity. Are there any other 7.1 dacs for peanuts?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jonbee on 16 Apr 2019, 10:23 pm
I wanted to see if I could get better sound from my oppo 93 player for little $. Although it uses the same CS4398 Dac as the Oppo, I thought I'd try the Topping d30 as a lark, for about $100.
Well, color me impressed! The Topping is much clearer, more open and focused using the coax input. Really very good in every respect.
I haven't compared it to my modded nuprime dac10h yet, but as a simple audio upgrade to a good video player it is aces for the $.
 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 27 Apr 2019, 02:05 pm
We've replaced the ancient "DACs under $450" sticky with this one as it's more current and virtually the same topic with prices in line with the marketplace today.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 1 May 2019, 02:54 pm
Tried double and triple series LT3045 usb dongle today. Double LT3045 works flawlessly. Triple LT3045 works but unstable.

Used these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/323569530540


Triple LT3045 requires double usb cable to power. Double LT3045 works fine alone. Sound quality wise:

3 LT3045 > 2 LT3045 > 1 LT3045


Wiring scheme:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194139)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: emailtim on 19 May 2019, 04:20 am
I have just bought used khadas tone board generic edition = bought it for 80$ with shipment. I hope it will be pretty good - I will let you know probably within a month.

Any update/feedback/comments on the Khadas Tone Board DAC yet ???
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 19 May 2019, 12:30 pm
Another very interesting dongle with DSD support.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/new-Original-Meizu-type-c-interface-HIFI-decoding-amp-high-performance-DAC-chip-hifi-sound-quality/33005037391.html?spm=2114.12057483.0.0.68f9360aFs9n5K
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 1 Jul 2019, 05:19 pm
New windows driver XMOS_USBAudio_v4.67.0_2019-06-26 (http://www.smsl-audio.com/Upload/download/20190628172655900.rar) for Da3, Da2, D4, Idea, IQ, etc released by smsl-audio.

As usual no changelog provided but I've noticed a new "About" tab in Control Panel  :lol:

Tested and working fine with with Sabaj Da2.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 2 Jul 2019, 06:59 am
New windows driver XMOS_USBAudio_v4.67.0_2019-06-26 (http://www.smsl-audio.com/Upload/download/20190628172655900.rar) for Da3, Da2, D4, Idea, IQ, etc released by smsl-audio.

As usual no changelog provided but I've noticed a new "About" tab in Control Panel  :lol:

Tested and working fine with with Sabaj Da2.

SABAJ are tight-lipped so far... the 'latest' drivers for DA2 nd DA3 are dated June 2017, respectively August 2018... Maybe an email to info@sabaj.com.cn (http://info@sabaj.com.cn) can break the silence...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 2 Jul 2019, 07:07 pm
SABAJ are tight-lipped so far... the 'latest' drivers for DA2 nd DA3 are dated June 2017, respectively August 2018... Maybe an email to info@sabaj.com.cn (http://info@sabaj.com.cn) can break the silence...

It doesn't matter they both use exactly the same general XMOS drivers for all of their XMOS-based products. XMOS_USBAudio_v4.67.0_2019-06-26 (http://www.smsl-audio.com/Upload/download/20190628172655900.rar) is 100% compatible with all XMOS-based Sabaj products. It's like original Nvidia drivers to asus, gigabyte, msi, etc nvidia-gfx cards...  8)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: CallMeMike on 4 Jul 2019, 06:31 am
@oOo

I know that... but it is not a largely known fact by 'all and sundry', a buyer of a digital product will seek advice and support from Manufacturer of that product so it's anybody's guess whether SABAJ will update their drivers page...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 9 Jul 2019, 01:29 am
I have just bought used khadas tone board generic edition = bought it for 80$ with shipment. I hope it will be pretty good - I will let you know probably within a month.


It's gone up to $100.  :?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 17 Jul 2019, 12:30 am
Has anyone listened to this dongle. It even supports DSD256. :scratch:

https://penonaudio.com/ibasso-dc01.html
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 19 Jul 2019, 05:21 am
Just got a Sabaj D5 ES9038Pro DAC. Currently $470 on Amazon, but $418 on AliExpress. There was a Prime Day deal for $95 off so went for it.

1. It is hands down the best sounding DAC I have heard using stock usb input, no mods, no PC tweaks or Jplay. Just straight Windows playback. No digititis. That's never happened before. Clean, clean, clean. Full-bodied, neutral/warm. I would never guess it was an ESS dac other than the very clean delivery.

2. Overall tonality sounds more like the Hifime 9038Pro than not and reinforces my opinion that the cheap ES9038Q2M Dacs (Topping D50, Sabaj DA3, Pro-ject S2, etc etc) are not 'small' versions of the Pro like some people have speculated. The Pro, even with a cheap implementation like the Hifimediy, is just better. More natural, fuller, organic than any of the Q2M mobile chips.

I would be curious to compare it with Dacs in the 1k+ price range, because this is not a $500 dac to my ears. Thanks to Dadbeh for the heads up. I'll add more thoughts as I break it in.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: fredgarvin on 19 Jul 2019, 03:12 pm
A nother one at that price level that looks interesting is the Topping D70 with dual AK4497 chips.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 19 Jul 2019, 05:48 pm
We came to $ 500 for peanuts. :green:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 19 Jul 2019, 06:32 pm
We came to $ 500 for peanuts. :green:

It comes in under, so should be okay. The D5 is worth every penny. Dadbeh said it held its own against his RME ADI-2, which I'd also like to get a hold of to compare.

Next up is a Schiit Modi Multibit.

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: fredgarvin on 19 Jul 2019, 07:18 pm
It comes in under, so should be okay. The D5 is worth every penny. Dadbeh said it held its own against his RME ADI-2, which I'd also like to get a hold of to compare.

Next up is a Schiit Modi Multibit.

The RME has a ton of functionality at that price level, but I'm not sure I need all of that.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 19 Jul 2019, 07:25 pm
The RME has a ton of functionality at that price level, but I'm not sure I need all of that.

More interested in establishing some retail reference points outside of the cheap China gear for future comparisons, and the RME is one of the flavor of the months right now. I definitely don't need all that functionality.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 19 Jul 2019, 11:17 pm
We came to $ 500 for peanuts. :green:

On second thought you're right, I don't think ~$500 Dacs are peanuts just regular C&C, I'll start a new thread on these instead.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 20 Jul 2019, 09:02 am
I'll start a new thread on these instead.
:thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 20 Jul 2019, 10:15 am
That's really pushing it for C and C.  It's an extension of the other Sabaj DACs so I'm not screaming foul, but I don't think $500 comments are in the spirit of C and C in general.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 20 Jul 2019, 02:04 pm
That's really pushing it for C and C.  It's an extension of the other Sabaj DACs so I'm not screaming foul, but I don't think $500 comments are in the spirit of C and C in general.

ok. The Schiit Modi Multibit is <$300, does that work for C&C?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 20 Jul 2019, 04:38 pm
Oh yes, of course.  And I'm not really objecting to the D5, it's a natural extension of the D3/D2 discussion so we can overlook the price tag for this thread.  Mostly I just don't want the general membership to think it's okay to start posting about $500-600 DACs.  When a thread is so interesting with such valuable information we can push the envelope a bit, it's fun.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 20 Jul 2019, 06:21 pm
Oh yes, of course.  And I'm not really objecting to the D5, it's a natural extension of the D3/D2 discussion so we can overlook the price tag for this thread.  Mostly I just don't want the general membership to think it's okay to start posting about $500-600 DACs.  When a thread is so interesting with such valuable information we can push the envelope a bit, it's fun.

Got it. No prob. Thanks.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Jul 2019, 05:19 am
Modi Multibit: Yikes. Was excited for this one, but we're definitely not getting along. Kind of hurts my ears, even with the phones at a distance. I suspect coax would improve things more than usual (kind of got the noisy usb fatigue of older usb dacs), but unless there's a dramatic change in presentation it's not my cup of tea.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Mortsnets on 21 Jul 2019, 05:56 am
Modi Multibit: Yikes. Was excited for this one, but we're definitely not getting along. Kind of hurts my ears, even with the phones at a distance. I suspect coax would improve things more than usual (kind of got the noisy usb fatigue of older usb dacs), but unless there's a dramatic change in presentation it's not my cup of tea.

Definitely try it with coax, the only way I use mine.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Jul 2019, 06:36 am
Definitely try it with coax, the only way I use mine.

Trying it now. It helps, takes the edge off. But it's still a no-go. I think my expectations were too high. Reminds me of a full range driver, kind of a natural coherence you don't usually get with delta sigma dacs, but there's a peakiness in the mids that doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Mortsnets on 21 Jul 2019, 11:18 pm
Good analogy (single driver).  I think mine works well in my headphone system because of the associated mellow sounding gear: Liquid Spark amp and AQ Nighthawk headphones.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 24 Jul 2019, 05:35 pm
D5 and D70 are c&c but are not peanuts.  I'd love to read more about these two.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Jul 2019, 05:54 pm
D5 and D70 are c&c but are not peanuts.  I'd love to read more about these two.

There is a separate thread for the D5 in C&C...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: bferguson on 7 Aug 2019, 08:49 pm
SMSL M8A might be worth consideration $195 on amazon...recommended component on musicservertips.com- they have a review...I am using it with a linear power supply that I bought off ebay for about $50

Uses ES9038Q2M from ESS chipset

Anyway sounds absolutely horrible for first 40 hours, then really pretty good
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 20 Aug 2019, 07:20 pm
Has anyone had the opportunity to listen to this DAC?
https://hifi-express.com/collections/s-m-s-l-vmv/products/new-smsl-m6-hi-fi-dac-ak4452-decoder-native-dsd512-amp-asynchronous-multifunction-with-32bit-768khz-usb-optical-coaxial-input?variant=18595729178724
Your impressions are welcome.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: iinterval on 10 Oct 2019, 01:56 pm
My phone da3 uses usb-c port it works fine with usb otb with my Samsung Galaxy S8 and Nokia Lumia 638.

https://www.wishhow.com/nokia/lumia-638-2634.html
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mix4fix on 10 Oct 2019, 04:22 pm
Has anyone had the opportunity to listen to this DAC?
https://hifi-express.com/collections/s-m-s-l-vmv/products/new-smsl-m6-hi-fi-dac-ak4452-decoder-native-dsd512-amp-asynchronous-multifunction-with-32bit-768khz-usb-optical-coaxial-input?variant=18595729178724
Your impressions are welcome.

I am interested as well. Can it run on USB power only?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 11 Oct 2019, 12:24 pm
No, it runs on a SMPS which means it cannot run on USB power.  I'm really interested as well for my bedroom system.  I wonder if there's any reviews on sound quality.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 11 Oct 2019, 02:14 pm
Just keep in mind the Schiit Modi 3 uses the same AKM dac and is only $99. My first concern with the M6 is the very old cheap JRC opamp, where most other dacs now are using newer (<15yrs) TI opamps.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 11 Oct 2019, 06:47 pm
... the Schiit Modi 3 uses the same AKM dac ...
No, Schiit Modi 3 uses AK4490 + C-Media CM6631A, and SMSL M6 uses AK4452 + 2nd generation X-MOS USB (support up to DSD512).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Oct 2019, 12:23 am
No, Schiit Modi 3 uses AK4490 + C-Media CM6631A, and SMSL M6 uses AK4452 + 2nd generation X-MOS USB (support up to DSD512).

Ah, Ok. The previous version of the M6 had the CM6631A. I think the 4490 is technically better. So six and one half dozen of the other. Regardless, that JRC opamp is a red flag for me. Especially if you can't swap it.

But maybe someone will give it a listen and report back.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 12 Oct 2019, 12:53 pm
The Modi doesn't have a headphone amp or an optical input.  I know my situation for my particular bedroom system isn't catholic, but I need three digital inputs, RCA, optical, and USB, as well as a volume control, with a price around a C note, that will decode most all hirez formats.  If the volume controls the RCA outs this could be what I need.  As that system is mostly TV with music mixed in ultimate sound quality although important, isn't the very top of the list.  Really good will be just fine.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 21 Nov 2019, 02:22 pm
Looks like new peanut bluetooth dac is coming: Qudelix-5K
https://www.qudelix.com/specification (https://www.qudelix.com/specification)

It has Dual ES9218P SABRE... A wireless sabaj da3 and costs maybe $100? This going to be my next buy. I will compare it later here.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: FreddyJ on 21 Nov 2019, 03:18 pm
What about this one?
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-dac/  £129 I believe?
Likely to be any good?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Nov 2019, 04:51 pm
What about this one?
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-dac/  £129 I believe?
Likely to be any good?

Finally, someone is using USB 3.0. I'm betting it's going to help give that dac a leg up in performance.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mhconley on 21 Nov 2019, 05:20 pm
What about this one?
https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-dac/  £129 I believe?
Likely to be any good?

"Net, net, it works and is adequately good. Won't hold a candle to higher end devices or separates. For $200 you can get a DAC and Amp combo that would run circles around it."

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/

Martin
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Nov 2019, 05:48 pm
"Net, net, it works and is adequately good. Won't hold a candle to higher end devices or separates. For $200 you can get a DAC and Amp combo that would run circles around it."

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/

Martin

Hahahaha. You forget to mention that by their own standards literally any $80 DAC/headamp with no obvious faults should be good enough. And yet they continue to give subjective ratings and subjective 'recommendations'. By their own metric you don't need anything more than a Behringer UMC202HD - which sucked BTW.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 21 Nov 2019, 07:32 pm
Also reviews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzzU-W2QqQg
https://majorhifi.com/ifi-zen-dac-review-economical-ecstasy/
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mhconley on 21 Nov 2019, 09:21 pm
Hahahaha. You forget to mention that by their own standards literally any $80 DAC/headamp with no obvious faults should be good enough. And yet they continue to give subjective ratings and subjective 'recommendations'. By their own metric you don't need anything more than a Behringer UMC202HD - which sucked BTW.

I've only seen subjectivity come into play when the measurements don't match (or come close to) published specs. I agree, if a manufacturer cannot deliver what they say they will then I'll pass. That said the issues with that DAC/HP amp are well below the threshold of hearing. The main problem that I see is it is way under powered. To each his own. I take his subjective comments with a grain of salt (as I do all subjective comments) - the measurements speak for themselves.

Martin
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Mudjock on 13 Jan 2020, 03:31 pm
SMSL M8A might be worth consideration $195 on amazon...recommended component on musicservertips.com- they have a review...I am using it with a linear power supply that I bought off ebay for about $50

Uses ES9038Q2M from ESS chipset

Anyway sounds absolutely horrible for first 40 hours, then really pretty good

I'm currently running an m8a into an Aragon Soundstage in stereo direct mode as my digital front end and am quite happy.  I voice my speaker designs on this system, so I value neutrality and detail resolution above other Sonic considerations.  I would think about the Sabaj D5 as a replacement for both with its volume control capability, but am not convinced it would be an overall win (dac upgrade but maybe preamp downgrade?)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 13 Jan 2020, 05:22 pm
I'm currently running an m8a into an Aragon Soundstage in stereo direct mode as my digital front end and am quite happy.  I voice my speaker designs on this system, so I value neutrality and detail resolution above other Sonic considerations.  I would think about the Sabaj D5 as a replacement for both with its volume control capability, but am not convinced it would be an overall win (dac upgrade but maybe preamp downgrade?)

Unless there was a recent redesign, the D5 would absolutely be an upgrade to the now old m8a. The D5 uses the Pro chip, for starters, while the m8a uses the cheap mobile chip (or maybe the even older ES9018, they've had several redesigns of the M8).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 14 Jan 2020, 09:46 am
I've had the Signtek's (no longer available), the Khadas Toneboard recommended here but recently, I got the Modi3. I like this one very much. Smooth from top to bottom. It doesn't do depth or soundstage as well as my AVA DAC but for the price, I'm very pleased with it. Highly recommended, even on expensive systems.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Mudjock on 14 Jan 2020, 01:59 pm
Unless there was a recent redesign, the D5 would absolutely be an upgrade to the now old m8a. The D5 uses the Pro chip, for starters, while the m8a uses the cheap mobile chip (or maybe the even older ES9018, they've had several redesigns of the M8).
I bought mine in 2017.  It has the mobile ES9028 DAC.  I have little doubt that the D5 would be an upgrade as a DAC but I am thinking about this more from a system building perspective.  The Aragon Soundstage is a mostly obsolete HT processor, but very impressive as a remote analog preamp.  The m8a-Aragon combo wound up at a similar price point for me as a new Sabaj D5 would run now.  If one ran the Sabaj unit as a DAC/preamp with remote source selection and volume control, the value comparison comes down to sound quality.  The real question is how well the D5 can do as a preamp directly driving a power amp.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: FreddyJ on 24 Jan 2020, 02:09 pm
Also reviews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzzU-W2QqQg
https://majorhifi.com/ifi-zen-dac-review-economical-ecstasy/

Going back to this one, the iFi ZEN DAC, I'm quite tempted. It's getting some enthusiaistic vids on YT. I do really need to get my act together to sort out what I want to do with my desktop set-up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIOsA3US9M8&t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMWOB553TCg

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Jan 2020, 05:19 pm
I have zero interest in any opinion offered by 'Z Reviews'.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mix4fix on 24 Jan 2020, 08:51 pm
I have zero interest in any opinion offered by 'Z Reviews'.

What's up with them?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 24 Jan 2020, 11:10 pm
What's up with them?


Well, I think for one, he rambles on too much and second, he's not very consistent.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: TrungT on 24 Jan 2020, 11:38 pm

Audiosciencereview (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/)
Let the numbers do the talking.


 :thumb:

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 24 Jan 2020, 11:54 pm
Audiosciencereview (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/)
Let the numbers do the talking.

I like reading his measurement articles.  There are questions about his methodology and that numbers don't tell the whole story on sound quality.  I don't think there's a thing wrong with low noise and wide dynamic range, so his ratings are not a bad starting point.  That said there's a lot of low ranking components on his list that people I trust say sound wonderful.   
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Jan 2020, 12:13 am
Audiosciencereview (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/)
Let the numbers do the talking.
:thumb:

That's his problem. He doesn't actually let the numbers do the talking. He inserts biased commentary the whole way through. Oh, and then the question of why the numbers he cares about matter. There are less biased people who do better reviews with the same equipment.

He and Z Reviews are the new tribalism in audio.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: who?me? on 25 Jan 2020, 01:16 am
I guess it depends what you mean by "peanuts"
Oh, okay, we all know what peanuts mean.

But here is a H/U for small, gold, peanuts.

Bel Canto DAC 3.7: with external power supply (EPS) AND upgraded reference umbilical cord from KEF.

I can attest to the DAC 3.7, it is my reference DAC. This DAC retailed for $6k alone, plus the KEF umbilical cord = $400.

The seller on Audiogon has it listed for a paltry $1850, and he would probably accept your lower offer.
Silly price for a DAC this good

Full Disclosure: Im moving overseas and have my own DAC 3.7 for sale for a higher price than the $1800.
(Jeez, now it sounds like I'm trying to promote my own shit. oh hell, I give up, I was just trying to give a HU)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: timind on 25 Jan 2020, 02:23 am
That's his problem. He doesn't actually let the numbers do the talking. He inserts biased commentary the whole way through. Oh, and then the question of why the numbers he cares about matter. There are less biased people who do better reviews with the same equipment.

He and Z Reviews are the new tribalism in audio.

Can you point me to some of these reviewers who do similar reviews without the bias?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: audio.bill on 25 Jan 2020, 02:09 pm
Bel Canto DAC 3.7: with external power supply (EPS) AND upgraded reference umbilical cord from KEF.

I can attest to the DAC 3.7, it is my reference DAC. This DAC retailed for $6k alone, plus the KEF umbilical cord = $400.
A couple of corrections... the upgraded power cable is called the Bel Canto REF and has no connection to KEF. The upgraded linear power supply is the VBL, earlier versions were VBS.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 25 Jan 2020, 05:20 pm
It doesn't really matter, it's way over C&C guidelines and shouldn't have been brought up anyway.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: FreddyJ on 27 Jan 2020, 03:14 pm
Can you point me to some of these reviewers who do similar reviews without the bias?

I found quite a few just by searching on YouTube and if you fancy another forum, there's some on Head-Fi too so I'm told.

Re reviewers - I guess everyone has their own style. I haven't really been paying attention much last couple of years but from what I can see now, the world is a wash with audio reviewers - some trying to stand out too much it seems - and some will be better than others. The way I see it though, these guys are all good for research but you really need to try these units for yourself - it what's you like that counts. These guys are just guidlines so it's not good getting to angsty about them.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 27 Jan 2020, 06:12 pm
Something that might be interesting ...
https://www.aurisaudio.shop/collections/digital/products/earmen-donald-dac
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Jan 2020, 06:34 pm
Something that might be interesting ...
https://www.aurisaudio.shop/collections/digital/products/earmen-donald-dac

Uses the new Cirrus chips. I'd be curious how it sounds. I have a soft spot for Cirrus dacs like CS4398 (e.g. Micromega MyDac).
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 1 Feb 2020, 03:47 pm
A new portable amp/DAC combo for $149 with MQA and balanced output.

https://majorhifi.com/ifi-announces-hip-dac-and-yes-it-supports-mqa/#
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 8 Feb 2020, 09:23 pm
...I'd be curious how it sounds...
First review, not so optimistic. :?
https://majorhifi.com/earmen-donald-dac-review/
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 9 Feb 2020, 01:53 am
First review, not so optimistic. :?
https://majorhifi.com/earmen-donald-dac-review/

Hm, he ran it through the ifi as a pre then switched to the ifi on its own? That by itself seems problematic for a comparison. Of course the ifi will sound better. I don't know how the ifi stands as a preamp, but I doubt that's an optimal purpose for it.

Also the donald would have to be a pretty poor dac to have audible harmonic distortion. Our tolerance for harmonic distortion is pretty high. So either the distortion is dominant 3rd harmonic or higher or the dac is badly designed (very possible).

Hopefully there will be some other reviews.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 17 Feb 2020, 10:22 pm
It might be interesting to someone
https://iiwireviews.com/fever-dac-a-25-game-changing-stick
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: kbuzz3 on 8 Apr 2020, 04:19 pm
so in the slighlity more than peanuts category, i have been fooling around with a new topping e30 dac.  I am very impressed. It is incredibly linear and does not emphasize any part of the sound spectrum in a very good way. Impressive clarity for 130 bucks......
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Charles Calkins on 8 Apr 2020, 06:16 pm
so in the slighlity more than peanuts category, i have been fooling around with a new topping e30 dac.  I am very impressed. It is incredibly linear and does not emphasize any part of the sound spectrum in a very good way. Impressive clarity for 130 bucks......

 kbuzz3
            I agree with you 100% not a bad Dac for $130. I have one and use it in my patio system.
           

                                                                 Cheers
                                                                Charlie
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 8 Apr 2020, 06:55 pm
Have you noticed any problems like this guy?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/post-368465
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Charles Calkins on 8 Apr 2020, 10:56 pm
Have you noticed any problems like this guy?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/post-368465
   That guy seems to have the Dac hooked up to a PC. Mine is hooked up to a stereo system.
    He might be using the wrong Dac.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 9 Apr 2020, 02:48 pm
   .... Mine is hooked up to a stereo system....
What do you mean? :o
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 9 Apr 2020, 04:22 pm
What do you mean? :o

I think he means he's listening to music rather than measuring.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Charles Calkins on 9 Apr 2020, 04:56 pm
I think he means he's listening to music rather than measuring.

   You got that right. I listen to music maybe 10 hours a day. Nothing like kicking back and listening to tunes in the patio.
    and barbecuing a nice steak. Weather permitting. I know nothing about computers. Don't understand using a PC for music.
   But I have to have one so I can buy tickets for events that are on my bucket list.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 9 Apr 2020, 07:22 pm
I think he means he's listening to music rather than measuring.
It is not a matter of measurement but what is connected to the DAC.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Soren Kierkegaard on 2 Jun 2020, 01:57 pm
This might have been asked before but I'm new. Does cable quality matter that much with USB DAC's? I mean the really short cables between the DAC and the phone or computer?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 7 Jun 2020, 03:51 am
This might have been asked before but I'm new. Does cable quality matter that much with USB DAC's? I mean the really short cables between the DAC and the phone or computer?
People say they do. I never could tell but expensive ones do last longer. Headphone cables %100 matters (especially if you have something super cheap like Superlux).

Make sure you use ifi isilencer(s) and its ilk with USB. I made my mine mentioned before. They still work flawlessly and make a good difference.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 7 Jun 2020, 03:52 am
Qudelix started their presale. $109 I think. I wonder if it will beat Btr5.

Also a software called "Wavelet" for android is a must have eq for peanut headphone dacs for phones.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pittvandewitt.wavelet&hl=en_US (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pittvandewitt.wavelet&hl=en_US)

Without root, you can eq even Spotify with headphone presets. Pretty sweet.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: nlitworld on 7 Jun 2020, 04:19 pm
I went a little more integrated route with my setup.
Evga Nu Audio card in the pc.
https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=712-P1-AN01-KR (https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=712-P1-AN01-KR)
I know its scoffed upon compared to a separate system, but for ease of use and really decent improvement on sound it works fairly well. Connected that with some blue jeans and we're in business. Plus it has upgradable opamps so if I felt like tinkering with some of those it can be done. I always like tinkering.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: rollo on 7 Jun 2020, 04:30 pm
  Hey Man no worry about the scoffers. If it sounds good it sounds good. Good and very good sound does not have to be expensive or by the book. Great sound another story. Besides you get to do what you like, tinker. Enjoy


charles
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 7 Jun 2020, 05:58 pm
Agree. I'd rather have someone give us their thoughts on what they've bought rather than a list of untried DAC's. I'd also prefer more details and comparisons.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: vilding on 18 Jun 2020, 06:32 pm
I'm looking for a nice budget dac (≈200€)  for a friend that's decided to leave the world of mono-sonos behind... It needs to have bluetooth and also volume control since it will go into powered speakers.

Shoot!   :P
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 26 Jun 2020, 10:17 am
A new windows driver XMOS_USBAudio_v4.82.0_2020-04-14 (https://smsl-audio.com/upload/portal/20200618/202006181128549996.zip) for Da3, Da2, D4, Idea, IQ, etc is released by smsl-audio.

No changelog provided.

Tested and working fine with with Sabaj Da2.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 26 Jun 2020, 09:13 pm
Received Qudelix 5k. Very sturdy looking fiio btr3 size thing.

Tested with balanced. It's not a sabaj da3 with bluetooth... but it's really close. Sabaj has a little more "analytic" detail and less noise. Qudelix 5k is a little bit warm (?) compared to Sabaj Da3.

Microphone of Qudelix 5k really works great! Software looks promising too. I thought it would beat sabaj da3... but I guess you need the juice to the chips to compete with it which Bluetooth dacs are not designed for.

Qudelix 5k is great as a package if you looking for a Bluetooth dac. Bluetooth range and connection is quite flawless. Fiio BTR3 is a joke compared to this. I don't know about BTR5.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: pinkfloyd4ever on 15 Jul 2020, 05:46 pm
Surprised the new $200 Schiit Modius hasn't been mentioned yet. https://www.schiit.com/products/modius

Unison USB, optical, coax, and AES digital inputs. Based on the AKM AK4493, balanced and SE outputs, with separate analog output stages for balanced and SE outputs. Available in black or silver. Plus the cherry on top is that, like all Schiit products, it's made in the US if you care about that sort of thing.

I got mine about 2 weeks ago. And it sounds absolutely amazing IMO. I've been trying to decide if I like it better than my Modi Multibit and I think I do prefer the Moduis. The most obvious difference is that it seems to have a little bigger soundstage than Mimby. There some other finer tonal differences between the Mimby and Modius. I'm not great at describing finer sonic details but you can read more here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-modius-discussion-199-balanced-ak4493-dac.933895/

I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 15 Aug 2020, 07:11 pm
Surprised the new $200 Schiit Modius hasn't been mentioned yet. https://www.schiit.com/products/modius

Unison USB, optical, coax, and AES digital inputs. Based on the AKM AK4493, balanced and SE outputs, with separate analog output stages for balanced and SE outputs. Available in black or silver. Plus the cherry on top is that, like all Schiit products, it's made in the US if you care about that sort of thing.

I got mine about 2 weeks ago. And it sounds absolutely amazing IMO. I've been trying to decide if I like it better than my Modi Multibit and I think I do prefer the Moduis. The most obvious difference is that it seems to have a little bigger soundstage than Mimby. There some other finer tonal differences between the Mimby and Modius. I'm not great at describing finer sonic details but you can read more here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-modius-discussion-199-balanced-ak4493-dac.933895/

I highly recommend it.

Yes, the Modius looks good. Thanks for the feedback. I agree on the Modi MB. My recollection is that it had a narrow stage as well.

I'm taking a hiatus from the hobby, especially as there doesn't seem to be any real groundbreaking strides since R2R comeback. But it's nice to see the budget segment getting better and better.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 10 Oct 2020, 08:43 am
It may be interesting to someone:
https://hifi-express.com/collections/loxjie/products/loxjie-d30-ak4493-hi-res-dac-amp
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/loxjie-d30-dac-and-headphone-amplifier-review.16679/
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 20 Oct 2020, 12:47 pm
I got one of these recently and it really opened my eyes to how great a small cheap dac could sound.  Beats my modded oppo sonica dac by far
https://www.allo.com/sparky/revolution-dac.html

I use it with an external 5V linear power supply from Jay's Audio
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Poultrygeist on 21 Oct 2020, 11:34 am
Picked up this Khadas Tone Board DAC for $89 last week on Amazon. Hard to imagine a better sounding DAC at this bargain basement price. But the case did set me back a whopping $11.

Streaming Amazon HD from a Node 2i to it's coax input is stunning.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216072)


Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 2 Dec 2020, 04:37 pm
so in the slighlity more than peanuts category, i have been fooling around with a new topping e30 dac.  I am very impressed. It is incredibly linear and does not emphasize any part of the sound spectrum in a very good way. Impressive clarity for 130 bucks......

Just got this in yesterday from a black friday sale, saved $20, and it's officially a giant killer.  Smooth as butter with good detail and excellent bass.  AKM AK4493EQ chip with the Velvetsound architecture, XMOS 208 usb input and AK9118 receiver for S/pdif.  Soundstage is incredible for a little thing that costs less than the cables used with it, deep and wide with well defined images.  It just makes music.  Note that reading the reviews, of which the are many, everyone said feed it good power.  In other words not your laptop or the sound just collapses.  It doesn't have it's own PS, you get a usb A cord attached to a barrel power connector so you have to find a wall wart of power bank.  I can't find my power bank, it's here somewhere I'm sure, so I just ran a phone charger that seemed to work fine.  Comes with a remote control, adjustable digital filters, preamp with volume or straight DAC out, and all the connections, usb B, coaxial, and optical.  Note that you do need to download drivers for PCs to get total functionality.  I couldn't be happier with this purchase. 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: avahifi on 2 Dec 2020, 04:42 pm
All the DACs using AKM chips will likely vanish from the market place pretty soon.

The entire AKM factory burned down to the ground in Japan a couple of weeks ago and there will be no new production of any AKM parts for at  least a year according to our factory rep.

Buy one now if you want a AKM based DAC.

Frank
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Bemopti123 on 2 Dec 2020, 04:50 pm
No to start a flame war....but I am wondering aloud, is there a DAC implementation here that will challenge those SOTA DACs that I am have curious about, like the Mola Mola DAC or a DCS stack?  Deep inside I know answer but as always, there might be some people here who has actual experience comparing these DACs to the uber DACs that I have been hearing about in the internet.   :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Poultrygeist on 2 Dec 2020, 09:51 pm
DACs are improving to the point that there's less and less separation between TOTL and budget level. These days it makes little sense to invest in a $$$$ DAC when next years cheapo Topping may sound just as good.

What you feed the DAC can make all the difference. Even a cheap DAC can sound absolutely stunning with a streaming service delivering 24/192.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 3 Dec 2020, 12:41 pm
All the DACs using AKM chips will likely vanish from the market place pretty soon.

The entire AKM factory burned down to the ground in Japan a couple of weeks ago and there will be no new production of any AKM parts for at  least a year according to our factory rep.

Buy one now if you want a AKM based DAC.

Frank

Yeah, I had read that sad news after I ordered the E30.  So I didn't order because of it nor did it deter me from ordering something that won't be around.  Topping and the other ChiFi companies have seemed lightning fast in adapting to new chip releases so they'll still have product, but it's a shame such a wonderfully musical chip won't be available.  I haven't heard any of the mega dollar DACs to compare the E30 to, but it easily equals or beats anything up to the $3-500 range.  I knew I had bought a good DAC with the features and input options I needed, I had read the reviews, but I was truly shocked how good this thing is.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: pinkfloyd4ever on 4 Dec 2020, 09:15 pm
Hmmm...I wonder how the E30 compares to the Modius. I may have to order an E30 with some Christmas money later this month and do a side-by-side comparison.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 5 Dec 2020, 11:34 am
One of the reviews compared the two and found them comparable, but the author ultimately preferred the E30.  He said another person might easily prefer the Modius.  I'd note that the Modius goes for $199 vs the E30 at $129, if that makes a difference for you.  The Schitt unit has balanced outputs, a much larger footprint, and includes a wall wart power supply.  I'd be interested in your thoughts it you end up going with it.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Poultrygeist on 5 Dec 2020, 11:54 am
I bet the difference between the D30 and E30 in SQ would end up being an exercise in hair splitting. The E30 display is a great feature and I've learned to appreciate it with the DX3 Pro.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: S Clark on 6 Dec 2020, 08:23 pm
I've picked up a used Topping D50 that should arrive in a week or so.  Anyone used a phone external battery to drive something like this?  Any disadvantages?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 7 Dec 2020, 12:01 am
I've picked up a used Topping D50 that should arrive in a week or so.  Anyone used a phone external battery to drive something like this?  Any disadvantages?

I'll let you know tomorrow, I finally found mine and it's charging up now.  From everyone reviewing the E30, which has the same power set up as the D50, the order of preference was laptop the worst, phone charger wall wart better, power bank much better, dedicated PS like the iFi wall wart the best.  I have a phone charger on it now.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 7 Dec 2020, 01:35 am
I bet the difference between the D30 and E30 in SQ would end up being an exercise in hair splitting. The E30 display is a great feature and I've learned to appreciate it with the DX3 Pro.

They sound very different in my system.  D50 is typical sabre sound without the mid high bump.  E30 sounds more similar to my D90 MQA but less of everything.  Basically, E30 is smoother but could be considered more boring than the D50.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: S Clark on 7 Dec 2020, 01:42 am
They are different beast for sure, but Leti was referring to the power circuitry.  I'm eager to hear what he has to say about using a battery.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: TomS on 7 Dec 2020, 01:51 am
I'll let you know tomorrow, I finally found mine and it's charging up now.  From everyone reviewing the E30, which has the same power set up as the D50, the order of preference was laptop the worst, phone charger wall wart better, power bank much better, dedicated PS like the iFi wall wart the best.  I have a phone charger on it now.
I bought a Mean Well PS for my D50s and it sounds pretty good in my desktop setup.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Poultrygeist on 7 Dec 2020, 10:43 am
They sound very different in my system.  D50 is typical sabre sound without the mid high bump.  E30 sounds more similar to my D90 MQA but less of everything.  Basically, E30 is smoother but could be considered more boring than the D50.

I was referring to the D30 vs the E30 not the D50.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Stercom on 7 Dec 2020, 01:45 pm
After reading through this thread I just ordered a Topping E30 to use with my Bluesound Node 2i. Thanks for the good commentary everyone.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 7 Dec 2020, 06:43 pm
They are different beast for sure, but Leti was referring to the power circuitry.  I'm eager to hear what he has to say about using a battery.

The brand is Jockery, model Giant+, 12,000mAh batteries outputting 5V/2.1A.  It also has a 1A output that I didn't try.  The phone charger it replaced was the regular 5V/1A unit.  Typical improvements when you improve your power, tighter bass, less background hash giving a better image.  Not dramatic, but easily noticable.  What was very interesting was that all this was from running pure battery only, when I attached the charging usb cable to the power brick everything collapsed back to how it sounded with the wall wart charger.  Maybe even a little worse because I was happy with just the phone charger and I definitely didn't like it with the brick on the charger.  I know nothing of the circuitry in these power bricks, do they go direct if the unit is plugged in?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 13 Dec 2020, 03:04 am
I cannot seem to remember the dac that had built in battery that you could hook up to phone for portable use.  Anyone remember the name?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: pinkfloyd4ever on 15 Dec 2020, 08:39 pm
I cannot seem to remember the dac that had built in battery that you could hook up to phone for portable use.  Anyone remember the name?
Maybe the Sabaj DA3? They may have an updated model by now, not sure though. Some of the other Chi-fi brands have similar products too, like SMSL and maybe Topping.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 15 Dec 2020, 08:43 pm
I cannot seem to remember the dac that had built in battery that you could hook up to phone for portable use.  Anyone remember the name?

I believe that was the Topping NX4...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: shadowlight on 16 Dec 2020, 03:07 am
I believe that was the Topping NX4...

Thank you.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: S Clark on 2 Jan 2021, 08:14 pm
Well, to answer the question if you can power a Topping 50 dac with a phone external battery,  YES.  It works fine.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 3 Jan 2021, 01:12 pm
Well, to answer the question if you can power a Topping 50 dac with a phone external battery,  YES.  It works fine.

Did you notice any improvement using the battery pack vs the standard 5v 1A wall supply?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: S Clark on 3 Jan 2021, 02:15 pm
Just got it yesterday, so I haven't compared yet. I'll report back in a day or so. 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 21 Jan 2021, 06:56 pm
Promises, promises.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: NoDisco on 22 Jan 2021, 12:30 am
So I might be interested in replacing my bel canto 1.7 of roughly 9 years. I don’t stream though. I ve been looking at the Musical paradise, but I’m not sure I wanna pony up 2k right now. Which topping might work, or are there others that rival the topping?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: S Clark on 22 Jan 2021, 12:44 am
Promises, promises.
Yep, running late as usual.
So the main difference between batteries and a wall wart were... not much.  Seriously don't think I could pick one out blind.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: NoDisco on 22 Jan 2021, 12:52 am
Just tried it...going back to the wall socket ASAP.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 22 Jan 2021, 12:18 pm
So I might be interested in replacing my bel canto 1.7 of roughly 9 years. I don’t stream though. I ve been looking at the Musical paradise, but I’m not sure I wanna pony up 2k right now. Which topping might work, or are there others that rival the topping?

Since this is the Cheap and Cheerful circle DACs over around $350 wouldn't be considered.  We're pretty flexible on pricing guidelines 'cause the main idea is having fun with the super low end.  But to your question we did venture into the top of the Topping line (ha ha) using the new Sabre ESS chips and there was effusive praise for the unit.  It's around $600, can't remember the exact model number, D50 or D90?  Anyway, it's the one with dual ESS 9038 chips, and every owner recommend it.  Also note with ChiFi that very, very similar architecture is available from several different brands.  Obviously oem factories are using off the shelf boards in different cases, one reason this performance is so cheap.  QC/QA also takes a back seat compared to Western companies, but again, you pay for that.  I've been overjoyed with my little E30, others have reported returned units.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 22 Jan 2021, 12:32 pm
Yep, running late as usual.
So the main difference between batteries and a wall wart were... not much.  Seriously don't think I could pick one out blind.

I wonder how different units sound.  I know nothing about battery pack chargers, but when I looked at the ones Walmart offered they appeared to be much lighter weight and cheaper built that the one I have, which was a gift from years ago.  Mine has two outlets, a 2.1A fast charger and the standard 1A, I use the higher power outlet of course.  Anyone know anything about these battery chargers?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: JLM on 22 Jan 2021, 01:01 pm
Power aberrations (the technical term for 'dirty' power) vary with location and time of day/week.  Causes include old appliances, crummy/old house/apartment wiring, other loads on your transformer/substation/distribution systems such as antiquated factories.  As those offending loads drop off some of the aberrations can go away. 

I tried battery powered amp and DAC (Red Wine) years ago.  The little integrated amp, 7 wpc, did an amazingly decent job at powering my 90dB/w/m full range loudspeakers.  The DAC had a switch to power via battery or AC (so you could keep playing while the battery was charging).  In my 2005 house with audio dedicated 20 amp circuits and grounding heard no difference. 

In theory batteries should perform better than power conditioners. 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 2 Mar 2021, 03:17 pm
A new windows driver for Da3, Da2, D4, Idea, IQ, etc was released by smsl-audio.

Download: XMOS_USBAudio_v5.0.0_2020-12-18 (https://smsl-audio.com/upload/portal/20210225/202102251130391176.rar)

No changelog provided.

Tested and working fine with with Sabaj Da2.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Bullitt5094 on 2 Mar 2021, 05:07 pm
When sorting through DACs in years past, the Schiit Modi Multibit was a giant killer for me. Looks like it's under $300. I sold my MB when I acquired a Lyngdorf amp that doesn't require a DAC. But I've purchased the non-multibit for a couple of my secondary systems since then. It is also impressive for it's $99 price.

After reading this thread I purchased an E30 and plan to do some A/B listening (vs. the Modi) using my Wife and my Daughter as victims. They both have exceptional hearing and not a clue as the what equipment they are listening to. But love my systems, and have a good idea what things are suppose to sound like. Or, to put it another way, are very opinionated at to what they think is correct sound to the point of having specific cuts they like to use for evaluation. Awesome test subjects. I'll let everyone know how that goes.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: pinkfloyd4ever on 22 Mar 2021, 07:19 pm
When sorting through DACs in years past, the Schiit Modi Multibit was a giant killer for me. Looks like it's under $300. I sold my MB when I acquired a Lyngdorf amp that doesn't require a DAC. But I've purchased the non-multibit for a couple of my secondary systems since then. It is also impressive for it's $99 price.

After reading this thread I purchased an E30 and plan to do some A/B listening (vs. the Modi) using my Wife and my Daughter as victims. They both have exceptional hearing and not a clue as the what equipment they are listening to. But love my systems, and have a good idea what things are suppose to sound like. Or, to put it another way, are very opinionated at to what they think is correct sound to the point of having specific cuts they like to use for evaluation. Awesome test subjects. I'll let everyone know how that goes.

I'm very interested to hear these results, Bullitt. Also, if you can spare another couple hundred bucks, I'd definitely be interested to hear your family's impressions on how a Schiit Modius stacks up in this comparison in to the E30 and Modi 3. I own a couple of Modiuses (Modii?) and just got an E30 I haven't really listened to yet. Also used to own a Modi Multibit.

Regardless of which one you may prefer, they're all excellent budget DACs.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Bullitt5094 on 22 Mar 2021, 08:02 pm
I'm very interested to hear these results, Bullitt. Also, if you can spare another couple hundred bucks, I'd definitely be interested to hear your family's impressions on how a Schiit Modius stacks up in this comparison in to the E30 and Modi 3. I own a couple of Modiuses (Modii?) and just got an E30 I haven't really listened to yet. Also used to own a Modi Multibit.

Regardless of which one you may prefer, they're all excellent budget DACs.

Daughter will will be here over Easter weekend. Testing likely then. And the DAC shelf is getting pretty full. Don't think I'll invest in the Modius. My girls do get bored of "test mode" after a while and just want to listen to uninterrupted music. Plus I have two new speaker builds I want to mix in. Pretty full slate.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: o0o on 10 Jul 2021, 07:38 am
A new windows driver for Da3, Da2, D4, Idea, IQ, etc was released by smsl-audio.

Download: XMOS_USBAudio_v5.12.0_2021-05-30 (https://smsl-audio.com/upload/portal/download/SMSLUSBAudioDriverV512.rar)

No changelog provided.

Tested and working fine with with Sabaj Da2.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Nov 2021, 03:15 am
After a couple years of the same old same old, things finally seem to be taking an interesting turn in the budget DAC market. Demo'ing a couple, will share some thoughts in the next few days.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jmc207 on 27 Nov 2021, 06:29 am
After a couple years of the same old same old, things finally seem to be taking an interesting turn in the budget DAC market. Demo'ing a couple, will share some thoughts in the next few days.


Looking forward to your findings!
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mresseguie on 27 Nov 2021, 04:44 pm


Looking forward to your findings!

+1

Welcome back,  wushuliu.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 9 Dec 2021, 09:09 am
After a couple years of the same old same old, things finally seem to be taking an interesting turn in the budget DAC market. Demo'ing a couple, will share some thoughts in the next few days.
Are you ready to share your findings here.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 9 Dec 2021, 11:54 am
Are you ready to share your findings here.  :popcorn:

They are here: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=179448.msg1886359#new
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 9 Dec 2021, 04:22 pm
Are you ready to share your findings here.  :popcorn:

Apologies. The first two dacs aren't quite peanuts so I am making separate threads for them. But I did come across a last minute DAC or two that are peanuts worthy. It'll be a few days yet before I post anything.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: pinkfloyd4ever on 12 Dec 2021, 04:38 pm
wushuliu, any plans to check out the Geshelli Labs J2? I've read a lot of good things about that DAC.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Dec 2021, 06:53 pm
wushuliu, any plans to check out the Geshelli Labs J2? I've read a lot of good things about that DAC.

I've heard good things about Geshelli as well. No plan right now. Last I checked they had a several week lead time and returns are of course not as easy as Amazon. I am keeping them on my radar though for down the road.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Dec 2021, 09:09 pm
OMG came across this little guy and I couldn't resist ordering one:

'HIFI Micro PCM56 R2R decoding with super beautiful sound'
PCM56 16/44.1 R2R DAC on AliExpress YI FAN 4.4 Store. $ 43 shipped! ('Updated version') 8)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=233669)
(AliExpress Photo)

I don't have much experience with these older chips. These are possibly fake, but who knows. Good news is that
authentic PCM56 are available NOS from Rochester Electronics for ~$16 so worst case scenario I can swap. Also some
other R2Rs like AD1860 are supposedly drop-in compatible. The lack of opamps/complex output is also compelling.

Almost all my music is 16/44, so that's not a limitation for me.

EDIT: Ugh. Of course after buying I find out there's an 'updated' version from another seller. Post edited to reflect that pic and pricing.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 20 Dec 2021, 02:11 am
A Song of Fire and Ice

So I've had two DACs for a week or so that fall in the Peanuts category that pulled me into a rabbit hole and now that I've finally crawled back out I've been trying decide how to write about them. Polar opposites in design and presentation, but equally compelling and frustrating. I'm going to try and talk about them together, which is both necessary and appropriate as they are made by the same person.

The DACs are the E1DA PowerDac V2.1 and the E1DA 9038DS.

E1DA is the moniker of Ivan Khlyupin, a Russian engineer who lives in China and is a 'freelance designer in SMPS/Class D/DSP/Embedded'. His son Tyoma is a coder who helps make the apps that accompany the two dacs. Ivan is also an active member of diyaudio (IVX). So these are not farmed out of the typical Chi-fi factory stable. These are precision engineered and thoroughly documented audio products. Ivan's ethos is essentially how to leverage his proximity and knowledge re: Chinese manufacturing to make the best engineered, compact and affordable products possible while at the same creating tools to allow hobbyists to conduct technical measurements with the same level of precision as $30K gear (via his Cosmos ADC). If you read between the lines of the bolded portion you'll understand the ramifications. So far...he's been successful. I could go on but I want to just focus on the DACs.

To learn more the E1DA website is here: https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index (https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index)
His Discord is here: https://discord.com/channels/483873307251310592/616934105325764608
 (https://discord.com/channels/483873307251310592/616934105325764608)
Fire

Around 2019 on diyaudio Ivan expressed his frustration with poor quality over-priced portable dacs options for his planars. His answer - design his own. But with a twist: his solution wouldn't use any off-the-shelf typical sigma-delta chips that are ubiquitous. Instead he used his background as an SMPS/ClassD engineer to make a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) DAC! In fact, I think the *first* such DAC, certainly for the average consumer. Enter the PowerDAC (PDAC):

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234011)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234013)

Tiny! The case is beautifully machined and has a high quality feel. On the back is an etching of how it works:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234014)

The PDAC comes stock w/ a 2.5mm balanced output, but an adapter is included for single ended conversion*(but see 'cons' section below). The USB doesn't need drivers for Windows or Mac/iOS. And that's it for the basic out of the box experience*. But you don't want the basic out of the box experience.

And this is where a rabbit hole opens up: You want the app, HPToy which is free to download. HPToy gives you access to the built-in DSP settings of the DAC. And hoo boy, there are a lot. So from your phone you can control not just Volume, Bass, and Treble, but Loudness, PEQ which is basically a slick equalizer, and dozens of presets based on other headphones and Harman curves and on and on. Like I said, rabbit hole:

Thing is this DAC stock sounds good (I'll get to SQ soon I promise) but IMO you *have* to use the app to bring it to life. A slight increase on the loudness setting here, adjust volume there*, bring up the PEQ at 7khz a touch... you get the picture. But it's worth it because the nature of the design is such that doing so won't detract from the sound quality as would happen with a typical DAC. There's no penalty in the PWM design (that I can discern) for tweaking to your taste, which is pretty awesome.

So how does the PDAC sound?

My expectation - and I'm sure I'm not alone given the whole 'PWM' thing - was that the PDAC would be a harsh digital aural spasm of 1s and 0s. That is not the case. In fact, the PDAC is the complete and utter opposite.  IMO you will not under any circumstances mistake the PDAC for an ESS dac, or any typical Sigma Delta for that matter.  I would characterize the stock PDAC as neutral/warm. The presentation overall is smooth in the mids and lower. It's hard to describe how different the PDAC is from a typical sigma-delta; smoother, perhaps. Even tube-like, perhaps due to the higher-than-usual distortion present. Yep, you read that right. PDAC won't be getting 'recommended' by the measurement site anytime soon. Strong lower midrange and bass emphasis. Upper treble and higher is subdued/further back in the mix. Powerful macrodynamics. I've never used the audiophile term 'muscular' before cause what does that even mean? Well, the cleverly designed PDAC hits the gut like Apollo Creed. If anything I find the PDAC a little too warm stock, a little too bass forward but then I again I am using HD6XXs which are already full in the midbass. I assume that combined with say planars - for which Ivan ideally designed these dacs in the first place - or other leaner sounding headphones, the presentation may be more balanced.

Soundstage is narrow and forward. In fact I would say the PDAC is like a wall of sound. Separation and depth are not a strong point - at least not single ended, maybe balanced is better. Microdetails are there, but the lower frequencies and macrodynamics dominate.

Bottom line? The PDAC is a wonderful change of pace. A little rolled off at the top, it's smooth and has slam.

Now open the app and you can refine that presentation: Up the loudness just 3-5% in the bass or lower mids and oooooohhhhhh baby, you've gone Beats. But without flabby boomy bass. Using the loudness function what you get is a refined, articulate, but hard hitting at whatever frequency you decide. Open the PEQ, slide the column wherever in the response you want and then increase or decrease the amplitude. Say 7khz, simply hold down for a sec then slide up. Now the microdetails pop, treble emphasis gets a nice boost without fatigue and it's like a whole new dac. I would avoid Treble and Bass settings as they lack the precision and just operate like, well, basic treble and bass equalizer.

Needless to say you can twiddle forever with the app in hand. Which kind of leads to the downsides of this DAC:

*Cons:

As one would expect from an engineer who hangs out at diyaudio, the PDAC is fiddly as hell and there are trade-offs that put this DAC more in the hands of an 'enthusiast' than say, a regular consumer or audiophile:

Volume. Since his dacs are designed foremost with planars in mind, these dacs put out higher than typical voltage and as such get LOUD. The PDAC's default output, even single ended, is incredibly loud. So be prepared to adjust volume more than usual. If you use the app you can set a preset that will always open at reduced volume. There is also a way to get Windows volume to default to lower volume output, but it is fiddly and best to ask Ivan or his rep on instructions. This is the kind of thing you don't have to think about with typical dacs but trust me you don't want to accidentally forget to adjust the volume with headphones on with the PDAC until you're sorted.

Line out: PDAC is headphone use ONLY. Do not try to line out to an amp. The PWM design has high DC offset single-ended that could potentially damage a preamp/amp and there is no ground for balanced to be used properly. These are non-issues for headphones, but a no-go for line out use.

App: The app is awesome but if you don't like having your phone handy (assuming the PDAC isn't directly connected to it) you're stuck with the stock performance. I don't like staring at my phone screen. Too much eye strain. That said once you've dialed in the PDAC you'll only need it for volume control. Keep in mind however the app is mandatory to select Unbalanced output

Heat: The PDAC gets hot. REAL hot (hence FIRE). It looks cute and portable like a baby dragon. It isn't.

Compatibility: Ivan has been clear that despite its size the PDAC is meant to be more of a desktop/stationary item. It is relatively power-hungry and gets real hot so be careful about mobile usage.

Adapter: You must use the supplied adapter for single-ended use. Do not use any other adapter that has not been ok'd by E1DA.

All this is to say make sure to go the product page, read it thoroughly or read multiple reviews thoroughly.

Oh - price. ~$76 Direct from E1DA AliExpress store, $90 from retailers. Stock has been sold out lately from retailers.

Summary: I find the PDAC addictive. I've spent a bunch of money in this new round of auditioning DACs and it's tempting to sell the PDAC to at least recoup some of that. But there's something so engrossing and impressive about the sound quality, plus the looks and feel... it's almost like a collector's item to me already. This PDAC was a pleasant surprise and packs a wallop for, well, peanuts.

I'll have more to add and this probably should have been its own thread but there it is for now. Next up, the 9038DS (Ice).


Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 20 Dec 2021, 11:27 am
So according to the website this was designed specifically for my Hifiman HE 400i headphones, kewl.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 21 Dec 2021, 06:33 am
So according to the website this was designed specifically for my Hifiman HE 400i headphones, kewl.

 8)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Dec 2021, 12:39 am
Ice

As promised I'll discuss the other DAC that E1DA makes, the 9038D. This will be a pretty short summary.

The 9038D is the single-ended version of E1DA's 9038 series, based on the ES9038Q2M. Unlike the PowerDac, the 38D and it's USB-C input is meant to be used with phones and other mobile devices. Which won't be hard to do because it is incredibly small. Measuring only 24mm (2in.) in length :

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234342)

For the 38-series Ivan of E1DA aimed for a DAC that would be both compact and a measurement champion. He succeeded on both fronts. You can find that info both on the E1DA website (provided in PowerDac review post above) as well on that measurement site. Not only that but he also provides an app to control some niche, but fascinating parameters like master clock speed, filters, and even distortion! What's amazing is that these options are controllable from within the dac itself, not post-processing. So you have the opportunity to hear for yourself whether 2nd or 3rd distortion makes a difference and which you prefer or in whatever combination.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=234343)

However that's where the positives end for me when it comes to the 38D. For starters, the 38D is *not* bluetooth detectable like the PowerDac and therefore the Tweak App can only be used when directly connected to a mobile device. For PC/laptop users it is possible to update firmware via USB to change filters and distortion, but it is not as convenient and does have the risk of potentially bricking the unit.

Last but not least is sound quality. The 38D presentation excels at low noise and microdetails, but lacks (via headphones anyway) depth and weight. You get an outstanding 2-dimensional blueprint but the music never comes close to being fleshed out. The end result is flat, cold, and clinical. To his credit even the designer agrees and as such prefers to listen with the special 'SE' firmware that provides high 2nd harmonic distortion. I second that. The SE firmware puts some life in the 38D, but only enough to put it on par with others around its price class. As such, the 38D is a big pass for me.

The good news is that E1DA has a <$200 desktop version of the 38D, the Cosmos DAC, ready for production once supply chain and parts cost issues settle down. The PowerDac shows that Ivan isn't just chasing measurements and that he's also got a good ear for sound. Here's hoping the Cosmos delivers on the promise of both the PowerDac and 38D.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 30 Dec 2021, 03:24 am
OMG came across this little guy and I couldn't resist ordering one:

'HIFI Micro PCM56 R2R decoding with super beautiful sound'
PCM56 16/44.1 R2R DAC on AliExpress YI FAN 4.4 Store. $ 43 shipped! ('Updated version') 8)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=233669)
(AliExpress Photo)

I don't have much experience with these older chips. These are possibly fake, but who knows. Good news is that
authentic PCM56 are available NOS from Rochester Electronics for ~$16 so worst case scenario I can swap. Also some
other R2Rs like AD1860 are supposedly drop-in compatible. The lack of opamps/complex output is also compelling.

Almost all my music is 16/44, so that's not a limitation for me.

EDIT: Ugh. Of course after buying I find out there's an 'updated' version from another seller. Post edited to reflect that pic and pricing.

Well kiss my grits. This little cheap azz R2R arrived today. Much smaller than I expected, too and looking basic AF. Takes 18-24v, so I plugged in my bench supply and connected a cheap USB/SPDIF converter.

Hot damn. This $40 box sounds *good*. Really good. No, really really good. Anita Baker's voice has tactility and sweet emotion. Piano notes have a kind of naturalness and weight I don't normally hear with the usual dacs, not even my modded Soekris 1021. Transients have snap, even snappier than the Topping E50 (not E30) I wrote about recently. Very dynamic. Organic, realistic bass punch, but not overwhelming. Not syrupy or rolled off, though like the Muse TPA1543 I once had (and an AC'er borrowed and never returned  :nono:). Very good extension. Has that R2R organicy, natural presentation. Surprisingly comes off as very quiet to me. Microdetails also pretty decent.

I'm not even going to compare it with the other Peanut DACs. It's a step or two above them easily. Instead I'll compare to pricier 'budget' fare I've heard/owned. Closest in sound signature is probably the $270 Topping E50, which has a similar toe-tapping quality. But the E50 doesn't have the naturalness of tone and midrange as this PCM56 and isn't as dynamic. The ~ $400Sabaj A20d has better instrument separation, more precise image, overall better extension in the extremes, but again not as good in natural tone/timbre/PRaT. The Soekris also has better separation, imaging, and a bit more dimensionality overall but the PCM56 I think wins on midrange and tone. The Soekris has always had a great sense of space but a little bit thin in the mids. This little black box is the opposite. They definitely share a similar organic, textured delivery. I wish I had my 2 channel setup running because I would love to compare the two through some good speakers. Alas my HD6XXs must suffice for now and with my headphones I think the two are *maybe* evenly matched just a question of tradeoffs. Will have to really spend time to compare. But I mean, my Soekris runs on LT3045 regulators and LifePo batteries. This little black box shouldn't even be in the ring.

'The last shall be first and the first shall be last'.To say my expectations were low is an understatement. I bought this dac on a lark just to get a little 'vintage' R2R flavor in the peanut mix. Also as much as I like to mess around with cheap dacs I am ready to tackle another new higher end project like the Soekris. My intent was to get one of Soekris' newer boards and go all out, but I may have to consider some other projects based around these old R2R/Multibit chips...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 4 Jan 2022, 09:32 pm
Coda: The little PCM56 black box is the real deal. After going down more rabbit holes I think I understand why it sounds as good as it does with so few parts. This is a clever little chip and the designer of this unit took a road less traveled.

This is it for DAC reviews until I get my 2 channel setup back in operation. In the meantime I'll be (re)exploring these old R2Rs; fitting as one of the first dacs I ever wrote about here was an AD1865 diy board back when I was still very new to the hobby. Now I have a Parasound D/AC 1100 on the way...
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Mortsnets on 7 Jan 2022, 04:42 am
Ordered the Updated Yi Fan 4.4 HIFI Micro PCM56 R2R DAC.  For a (DC 18~24V, 5.5x2.1MM) power supply will the following work:
https://www.amazon.com/Decumoor-Adapter-5-5X2-1mm-Connector-Compatible/dp/B08B1HXCPF
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: tull skull on 7 Jan 2022, 05:09 am
I love you Wushu! You always make C and C so fun and  interesting. Like watching a prospector digging for gold :)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 7 Jan 2022, 06:43 am
Ordered the Updated Yi Fan 4.4 HIFI Micro PCM56 R2R DAC.  For a (DC 18~24V, 5.5x2.1MM) power supply will the following work:
https://www.amazon.com/Decumoor-Adapter-5-5X2-1mm-Connector-Compatible/dp/B08B1HXCPF

That should work, but since the dac uses barely any current a 1A supply would also work and probably cheaper. Even just 500mA should suffice.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 7 Jan 2022, 06:44 am
I love you Wushu! You always make C and C so fun and  interesting. Like watching a prospector digging for gold :)

 :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: skrstc on 17 Jan 2022, 01:07 pm
Hi Wushuliu what USB/SPDIF converter did you used? Suggestions?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Jan 2022, 01:32 am
Hi Wushuliu what USB/SPDIF converter did you used? Suggestions?

Sorry, missed the post. I was just using the cheap $20 Signstek DAC, which also works as a USB/SPDIF converter. I have a much more expensive unit on the way to try out designed by the team Denafrips use/used for their DACs.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: skrstc on 27 Jan 2022, 04:12 pm
https://youtu.be/ISLN9u1QOgo
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 27 Jan 2022, 06:47 pm
https://youtu.be/ISLN9u1QOgo

For those who maybe want some context rather than click on some random YouTube link, it's a Hans Beekhuyzen review of an ultracheap DAC he found to sound surprisingly good. His looks like this:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236065)

It's 24/192khz capable and uses a CS4344 dac chip. Hans finds that it punches far above its weight, even up to some $1k Dacs IIRC. He's a pretty conservative guy on recommendations, so that's a strong rec coming from him.

I haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Part of the issue is that this type of dac is sold under many names and changes components all the time; some out there may look the same on the outside but the internal components will be different. So unless you have the exact one Hans used don't assume that what you get will be the same and you might want to open take a peek inside to verify.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: charmerci on 28 Jan 2022, 01:10 am
Sorry, missed the post. I was just using the cheap $20 Signstek DAC, which also works as a USB/SPDIF converter. I have a much more expensive unit on the way to try out designed by the team Denafrips use/used for their DACs.


I've had the Signstek DAC/converter. Getting an XMOS XU208 converter/DAC for a little bit more (about $50) sounds a bit better.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: skrstc on 11 Feb 2022, 07:58 am
PCM56 little black box is really good soundding DAC. Wushuliu thanks.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 11 Feb 2022, 10:20 pm
PCM56 little black box is really good soundding DAC. Wushuliu thanks.

You're welcome! 8)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Simon on 8 Mar 2022, 06:17 pm
Running the Topping E30 and noticed the difference/improvement over the DAC in my Outlaw pre amp. With the Topping the soundstage felt more open and detailed.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: rlfortson on 9 Mar 2022, 04:45 am
Have both the Topping E30 and the E50.  The E30 was just OK, nothing special.  The E50 was on a whole other level.  Like others have noticed, the bass was tighter and more impactful.  Very smooth sounding DAC but with plenty of detail.  But the number of new DACs coming onto the market is mind boggling.  Hard to even keep up anymore!

My current favorite DAC is the iFi ZEN Signature V2.  Compared to the E50, it seems to not be quite as smooth but has even more detail and a huge soundstage.  However, I'm using it on Tidal Master Edition with MQA and it is a full rendering MAQ DAC so I'm sure that is also part of the sound profile difference.  The Topping E50 also does full MQA put just doesn't sound as detailed as the ZEN Signature DAC to my ears.  Frankly, I'm surprised that DACs sound so different as I had been told that DACs all pretty much sound the same unless you go way up the price scale.  Not my experience.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: navi on 10 Mar 2022, 06:46 am
I bought the PCM56 DAC and had a 24v SMPS lying around that i have used for it. I have to say so far it's been good.Compared to the Topping D50 the PCM56 has a bit more texture in the bass and mids. Sure the D50 is quieter and instrument separation is better but the PCM56 just has a more enjoyable bass and mids.

I would be tempted to change the blue capacitor between the DAC chip and RCA outs.


I will continue doing comparisons over next few weeks


System:
MACBOOK Pro >Douk audio USB to SPDIF converter>>PCM56 DAC >>Tag McLaren F3 integrated amp>> Whatmough 202i lead lined Monitors.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 30 Oct 2022, 01:24 am
I bought the PCM56 DAC and had a 24v SMPS lying around that i have used for it. I have to say so far it's been good.Compared to the Topping D50 the PCM56 has a bit more texture in the bass and mids. Sure the D50 is quieter and instrument separation is better but the PCM56 just has a more enjoyable bass and mids.

I would be tempted to change the blue capacitor between the DAC chip and RCA outs.


I will continue doing comparisons over next few weeks


System:
MACBOOK Pro >Douk audio USB to SPDIF converter>>PCM56 DAC >>Tag McLaren F3 integrated amp>> Whatmough 202i lead lined Monitors.

Lot of life changes in the past year but I've had some time lately to get back to music. New setup and adjusting best as I can. Fired up the little PCM56 and it remains a satisfying listen. Yes definitely the separation is poor. It's more like the older AKM chip 'wall of sound'. But that older r2r 'magic' is just hard to resist. So I thought let's bust out the soldering iron. It's a small unit, it'll just be a little tinkering distraction. I swapped out the cheap RCA's for spare DH Labs copper plated and a KLE silver plated copper which are very affordable at $25/pr. Lastly I swapped out the output caps for some spare Muse 47uFs. Easy to do, board solder melts easy. Man, what a treat (or Trick?). I love this baby. I hope to get some highish priced DACs on loan to compare later. The poor separation remains but high end extension is perfect, it sounds even quieter, lower noise/distortion (?), tambor/tone wonderful. Cost $40 plus fancy upgrades at retail equals what $65 shipped max. I'll certainly take this over the Schiit Modi MB or anything I've heard under $500 any day.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 11 Dec 2022, 12:44 am
just received topping e30ii a few days ago.  powering the 5v input via HDPLEX 300.  sounds very good.  this dac uses a pair of AKM 4493S

this is a big improvement over the e30 and makes me curious about the AKM4499EX.

funny enough, got an apos spam mail this morning introducing toppings E70 Velvet w/ the exact chip.  so, ordered it.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 11 Dec 2022, 11:28 am
just received topping e30ii a few days ago.  powering the 5v input via HDPLEX 300.  sounds very good.  this dac uses a pair of AKM 4493S

this is a big improvement over the e30 and makes me curious about the AKM4499EX.

funny enough, got an apos spam mail this morning introducing toppings E70 Velvet w/ the exact chip.  so, ordered it.

Wow, talk about overkill with the power supply, good on you.  I read the review, I think PTA, but not positive, and they had a lot of good things to say, but also noted some shortcomings in soundstage and noise floor, but was using a wall wart for a power supply.  In my first generation E30 I noticed the same thing until I upgraded to a good power brick which fixed all those issues.  I'm sure with that PS you're not leaving any potential of your second gen on the table.  Interested in hearing the comparison of the E70.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mresseguie on 11 Dec 2022, 01:26 pm
There's a guy here in Taiwan who has upgraded all of his wall warts <I think all> with Ganfet power supplies, and insists they've lowered his noise floor and that 'everything just sounds better' that before. Have any of you tried using GANfet wall warts?

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 11 Dec 2022, 03:07 pm
... introducing toppings E70 Velvet w/ the exact chip.  so, ordered it.

Test of E70
https://www-l7audiolab-com.translate.goog/f/topping-e70-v/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 11 Dec 2022, 05:42 pm
There's a guy here in Taiwan who has upgraded all of his wall warts <I think all> with Ganfet power supplies, and insists they've lowered his noise floor and that 'everything just sounds better' that before. Have any of you tried using GANfet wall warts?

you mean something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/MINIX-NEO-P3-Charging-Compatible/dp/B09JKJ1QRJ/ref=sr_1_5?crid=29AI8T1YFSGH1&keywords=GaN+Power+Adapter&qid=1670780364&sprefix=gan+power+adapter%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

i have used ravpower powerbank to power a D50s before and didn't like the sound.  purpose of getting the e30 is just a novel idea to get a system completely powered by the HDPlex 300.  although thinking it's just an idea now.  after comparing against lab12 last night, e30ii doesn't come close.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 13 Dec 2022, 10:46 pm
i've been using lab12 dac for the past 4 days or so but left the E30 ii plugged in.  and, just swapped to the E30 ii.  maybe the last ounce of air and texture, i don't think i am losing much.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: navi on 22 Dec 2022, 01:07 am
Lot of life changes in the past year but I've had some time lately to get back to music. New setup and adjusting best as I can. Fired up the little PCM56 and it remains a satisfying listen. Yes definitely the separation is poor. It's more like the older AKM chip 'wall of sound'. But that older r2r 'magic' is just hard to resist. So I thought let's bust out the soldering iron. It's a small unit, it'll just be a little tinkering distraction. I swapped out the cheap RCA's for spare DH Labs copper plated and a KLE silver plated copper which are very affordable at $25/pr. Lastly I swapped out the output caps for some spare Muse 47uFs. Easy to do, board solder melts easy. Man, what a treat (or Trick?). I love this baby. I hope to get some highish priced DACs on loan to compare later. The poor separation remains but high end extension is perfect, it sounds even quieter, lower noise/distortion (?), tambor/tone wonderful. Cost $40 plus fancy upgrades at retail equals what $65 shipped max. I'll certainly take this over the Schiit Modi MB or anything I've heard under $500 any day.

The actual capacitor is a 68uf, You have used a 47uf cap. Do you think going lower would be better? or doesn't matter?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 22 Dec 2022, 01:23 am
The actual capacitor is a 68uf, You have used a 47uf cap. Do you think going lower would be better? or doesn't matter?

47uf is what I had on hand. Probably best to stick to 68-ish.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: navi on 22 Dec 2022, 01:57 am
47uf is what I had on hand. Probably best to stick to 68-ish.

Got it. Thanks.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mresseguie on 22 Dec 2022, 03:02 am
you mean something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/MINIX-NEO-P3-Charging-Compatible/dp/B09JKJ1QRJ/ref=sr_1_5?crid=29AI8T1YFSGH1&keywords=GaN+Power+Adapter&qid=1670780364&sprefix=gan+power+adapter%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

i have used ravpower powerbank to power a D50s before and didn't like the sound.  purpose of getting the e30 is just a novel idea to get a system completely powered by the HDPlex 300.  although thinking it's just an idea now.  after comparing against lab12 last night, e30ii doesn't come close.

He didn't use power banks with multiple adapters. He used one wall wart per component. He's a purist(?), so he wouldn't choose one bank to support multiple components. That said, his room is a mess of extension cords with six or eight outlets each. I'd meant to snap a photo of his room, but forgot to. When AC members complain of a rat's nest of cables, they clearly have not been to this guy's home.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: dadix4e on 22 Jan 2023, 02:35 pm
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=233669)

This product built on  pcm56 chip It is non-oversampling or not ?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 30 Jan 2023, 05:09 am
just received topping e30ii a few days ago.  powering the 5v input via HDPLEX 300.  sounds very good.  this dac uses a pair of AKM 4493S

this is a big improvement over the e30 and makes me curious about the AKM4499EX.

funny enough, got an apos spam mail this morning introducing toppings E70 Velvet w/ the exact chip.  so, ordered it.

How's the E70 Velvet?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 19 Feb 2023, 06:34 pm
Has anyone compared the E50 with the E30II and the Topping DX3Pro+?  I am looking for a cheap DAC for TV.  Bluetooth would be nice but not a must have.

I am also looking at the SMSL SU-6 and D6.

Thanks,

Larry
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: newzooreview on 19 Feb 2023, 07:18 pm
Well, unless there are convenience features it doesn't support, the Geshelli J2 made in the USA is a great option.

https://geshelli.com/product/jnog2/

I did not like the Topping that I bought, the E30. I'm sure their models vary in performance, but they focus on high scores on ASR rather than sound quality.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 19 Feb 2023, 10:00 pm
How's the E70 Velvet?

it's very good.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 19 Feb 2023, 10:22 pm
Well, unless there are convenience features it doesn't support, the Geshelli J2 made in the USA is a great option.

https://geshelli.com/product/jnog2/

I did not like the Topping that I bought, the E30. I'm sure their models vary in performance, but they focus on high scores on ASR rather than sound quality.

Thx, I am aware of this DAC.  It is above my $200 budget.  Also, it must be available on Amazon as I have a $70 gift card.  There is a SMSL C200 for sale on Amazon for $219.  However, it looks like it may have reliability issues.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: artur9 on 20 Feb 2023, 12:09 am
Schiit's on amazon.  Modi is only $125.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 20 Feb 2023, 12:19 am
Schiit's on amazon.  Modi is only $125.

I own a Modi plus and it is too warm and muddy with TV.  My wife has hearing issues and I am looking for something that has clear dialog. 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 20 Feb 2023, 10:52 am
I can't imagine that the E30 would be muddy sounding.  It is very sensitive to power supply and it's night and day when run from the wall vs a battery brick, but in either case it's not dull.  I haven't heard the E30II but reports are it's even better.  All of this understanding that you're dipping in the shallow end of the pool here, you're not going to find a $5k sound there.  For my two channel TV setup I run an ancient TC 7510 96khz DAC, sounds great.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mresseguie on 20 Feb 2023, 11:07 am
Larry,

I've got a Sabaj D5 that I could let go of. HifiShark suggests it's worth about $200. The only catch is you'd have to wait until mid-May before I could ship it to you. It doubles as a headphone amp, but no Bluetooth capability.

Michael

https://www.amazon.com/Sabaj-Converter-Headphones-Amplifier-Preamplifier/dp/B07PYRM6J6
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Tyson on 20 Feb 2023, 03:56 pm
The iFi Go Link is an excellent little DAC/Headphone amp.  For $65 delivered from Amazon it's a no brainer if you use IEM's or easy to drive headphones. 
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 21 Feb 2023, 04:33 am
Thanks guys!  I ended up buying a Topping E50 DAC.  I had a $70 Amazon gift certificate.  I will report back on how it sounds once it arrives in about 2 weeks.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jonbee on 21 Feb 2023, 05:19 am
Thanks guys!  I ended up buying a Topping E50 DAC.  I had a $70 Amazon gift certificate.  I will report back on how it sounds once it arrives in about 2 weeks.
An excellent sounding dac for the $. Notably better than the E30 I had.  For a few $ you can get a simple linear power supply that is a substantial improvement over the stock non-supply:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B88ENAG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought one for all 3 of my Toppings and they all worked great.
You'll be glad you did!
Have fun.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 21 Feb 2023, 04:27 pm
An excellent sounding dac for the $. Notably better than the E30 I had.  For a few $ you can get a simple linear power supply that is a substantial improvement over the stock non-supply:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B88ENAG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I bought one for all 3 of my Toppings and they all worked great.
You'll be glad you did!
Have fun.

Thanks, I will order one if I keep the DAC.   I was thinking of getting an Ifi power supply, but this is cheaper, and the reviews are good.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Poultrygeist on 12 May 2023, 09:22 am
Still enjoying the C&C Tone Board DAC. I prefer it over a more expensive Topping D30.



(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=252776)

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 12 May 2023, 04:38 pm
I bought the Topping E50 DAC on sale.  It sounds way better than my Schiit Modi 3.    It is clear and detailed with good bass punch. It works great with my TV.  I am using a Jameco cheap LPS to power it and it made a slight improvement in sound.  I am going to try a Teradak LPS with it.  I would not use this dac in a higher end system though.  We tried it in my sons system (Cary Audio Integrated and Wharfedale Evo 4.4 speakers) and it sounded muddy in comparison to his Chord Qutest. However, it sounded great in my bedroom system which is an older Marantz 2ch receiver and Monitor Audio RX-1 speakers.  Now I will see how long it holds up.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: karnana on 14 Jun 2023, 12:05 pm
Tried double and triple series LT3045 usb dongle today. Double LT3045 works flawlessly. Triple LT3045 works but unstable.

Used these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/323569530540


Triple LT3045 requires double usb cable to power. Double LT3045 works fine alone. Sound quality wise:

3 LT3045 > 2 LT3045 > 1 LT3045


Wiring scheme:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194139)
4 year update:
This device and sabaj da 3 are still working fine and used daily on a computer.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: zek on 14 Jun 2023, 03:07 pm
4 year update:
This device and sabaj da 3 are still working fine and used daily on a computer.
Perhaps it would be good to indicate what this refers to? :?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mick wolfe on 14 Jun 2023, 03:08 pm
Apologies if it's been mentioned previously, but I'm currently enjoying the Phillips Little Giant DAC. Supposedly the same chip used by 47 Labs back in the day, but who knows? Regardless, very smooth presentation somewhat akin to vinyl in many respects. About $48 shipped from AliExpress. Caveats being it's a very simple device only featuring a single coax input, two RCA outs and a 12V input. So you'll need a decent 12V power supply to get the best it has to offer. FWIW, other DAC's in house include a Denafrips Ares, Geshelli J2 and Line Magnetic 502. As always, YMMV, but it's an interesting option and sonic change of pace for the fraction of what you'd pay for an over priced interconnect.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mresseguie on 14 Jun 2023, 04:53 pm
Apologies if it's been mentioned previously, but I'm currently enjoying the Phillips Little Giant DAC. Supposedly the same chip used by 47 Labs back in the day, but who knows? Regardless, very smooth presentation somewhat akin to vinyl in many respects. About $48 shipped from AliExpress. Caveats being it's a very simple device only featuring a single coax input, two RCA outs and a 12V input. So you'll need a decent 12V power supply to get the best it has to offer. FWIW, other DAC's in house include a Denafrips Ares, Geshelli J2 and Line Magnetic 502. As always, YMMV, but it's an interesting option and sonic change of pace for the fraction of what you'd pay for an over priced interconnect.

I see it has a TDA1387 chip. I can't say that I've knowingly heard one before, but there are threads in various audio forums where folks say nice things about it. That DIYAudio thread...tough crowd.

How do you like the Geshelli J2? [I may be buying a MHDT Orchid soon to hear for myself what it offers.]
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mick wolfe on 14 Jun 2023, 09:53 pm
I like the Geshelli J2 a lot. It offers a somewhat opposite presentation compared to the Little Giant. IOW, a little more vivid with sharper contrasts, but by no means over the top. Both are very involving in their own right. Being as that I'm somewhat prone to swapping things out ( be it amps, speakers, DAC's ,etc.) on a regular basis, I find both offer an interesting perspective and certainly a bargain by today's standards.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 4 Jul 2023, 05:51 pm
my dac du jour is a pop pulse pcm 1796mk2 that i bought here on ac.  i put a xspdif2 in front of it and it sounds amazing. 

i also ordered this which should arrive this week:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803365529653.html?spm=a2g0o.order_detail.order_detail_item.4.257af19c46ZRuL&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

and am thinking about getting this:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803308950521.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1e3d38daRJCUYr&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

i think having a ddc in front of these older r2r chip is worth experimenting with.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 6 Jul 2023, 09:41 pm
So just received the TDA1543 dac I linked above.  It came in a brown envelope inside another brown envelope.  No packing material at all.  The whole DAC is made of plastic.  I am surprised it didn't shatter on its way here from China. 

Just swapped out the Poppulse for the TDA1543 and powering it with HDPLEX 300W's 12v DC output.  The thing sounds smooth right off the bat.  Definitely reminds me of the Scott Nixon 1543 dac I had many years ago but much better.  In fact, I like it better than other comparable dacs such as MHDT Orchid and Denafrips Ares/Pontus.  $60 dac powered by a $600 psu... well the HDPLEX has 4 outputs.  So, you can probably get a dedicated 12v LPSU for much less between $50 to $100 for a quality ebay one.

Only thing I don't like about this dac is the form factor.  The DAC's rca input and output are on opposite sides.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jandrews on 6 Jul 2023, 10:02 pm
@viggen
Can you post a photo of the dac?
the pics in the AliExpress ad are pretty poor.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 6 Jul 2023, 10:11 pm
sorry my pics are pretty crappy too.  didn't think to take pics before installation.

(https://i.postimg.cc/5XtZ75k8/PXL-20230706-220530757.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XtZ75k8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QFnvRBRw/PXL-20230706-220542202.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QFnvRBRw)

a few more images:

(https://i.postimg.cc/SjYWjRH8/PXL-20230707-180427195.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjYWjRH8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bSnb5V1L/PXL-20230707-180527875.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bSnb5V1L)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RNrwt9zY/PXL-20230707-180554232.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNrwt9zY)
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: jandrews on 6 Jul 2023, 10:24 pm
thank you
it's open on the sides or that's plexi?
assuming this is a 16/44.1 converter?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 6 Jul 2023, 10:41 pm
nothing on the sides.  wide open.
spec on website: Support format: PCM 16bit 44.1k~48K
i am using a matrix xspdif2 in front of it.  so the dac is taking whatever the ddc is outputting.

it's been playing for about 3 hours.  soundstage, air... all bigger. bass is stronger too but a bit too strong for my taste.  for non bassy songs, i am not missing my other dacs.

vocals are very fleshy and textured. 

after about 5 hours, i switched back to poppulse.  i still prefer poppulse.  highs more expansive and detailed with a tinge of sweetness in the treble.

after leaving it powered overnight and listening to it this morning, the bass bump is gone and the sound is all good again.  swapping in the poppulse dac, i hear more higher end energy in comparison but now i miss the 1543 dac's sound more than the poppulse's.  the mids on the 1543 has a quality that makes my heart feel sunk when i listen to it.  iow, it's tugging my heart strings.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Letitroll98 on 7 Jul 2023, 09:45 am
Just read this review on the iFi Go Link dongle DAC and it looks promising.  $59 us and does both DSD and MQA in addition to PCM.  The What Hifi review highlighted an expansive head stage as is best attribute.  If you're looking for an inexpensive portable solution this could be it.
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/ifi-go-link
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 8 Jul 2023, 04:01 pm
another impression on the tda1543 dac.  i changed lpsu from hdplex300 to a no name ebay lpsu which imo is very high quality that i bought for around $60-$80 about 5 years ago.  the dac sounds better with the hdplex.  with the cheaper lpsu, it loses a bit of soundstage and smoothness just enough to drop the dac from special to ordinary.  still very listenable but probably a tad below ares ii in terms of musical enjoyment.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: SET Man on 12 Nov 2023, 02:58 am
nothing on the sides.  wide open.
spec on website: Support format: PCM 16bit 44.1k~48K
i am using a matrix xspdif2 in front of it.  so the dac is taking whatever the ddc is outputting.

it's been playing for about 3 hours.  soundstage, air... all bigger. bass is stronger too but a bit too strong for my taste.  for non bassy songs, i am not missing my other dacs.

vocals are very fleshy and textured. 

after about 5 hours, i switched back to poppulse.  i still prefer poppulse.  highs more expansive and detailed with a tinge of sweetness in the treble.

after leaving it powered overnight and listening to it this morning, the bass bump is gone and the sound is all good again.  swapping in the poppulse dac, i hear more higher end energy in comparison but now i miss the 1543 dac's sound more than the poppulse's.  the mids on the 1543 has a quality that makes my heart feel sunk when i listen to it.  iow, it's tugging my heart strings.

another impression on the tda1543 dac.  i changed lpsu from hdplex300 to a no name ebay lpsu which imo is very high quality that i bought for around $60-$80 about 5 years ago.  the dac sounds better with the hdplex.  with the cheaper lpsu, it loses a bit of soundstage and smoothness just enough to drop the dac from special to ordinary.  still very listenable but probably a tad below ares ii in terms of musical enjoyment.

Hey!
     There's something special about that simple TDA1543 DAC chip isn't it?

     Back in 2006 I bought a kit off eBay for $40. Very simple with single 1543 chip and no output/buffer stage after. I swapped the output caps to WIMA red caps and bypassed them with .1uf K40Y-9 PIO caps. I run mine with 12V SLA batts with 15000uf cap.

     Over the years I had compared it to some higher and newer DACs from early ESS chipped Eastern Electric DAC and a few others when we used to have a local get together here in NYC area. And recently my two local audio friends came over to my place with their DAC, a Denafrip Ares which is also NOS and a Topping forgot which model but I think it was ESS based around $200. Well, I didn't like the Topping and to my surprise my little batteries powered 1543 was close and held up well against the Denafrip. Although, Denafrip Ares does have a bit better low end and drive though. But my simple 1543 have better mid overall to me, it is just more liquidity to it somehow. Some might say too laid back but to me it feel more natural, especially with female vocal. This surprised my friends also. So, yeah... after that I'm keeping my little 1543 DAC and honestly I was ready to save up for a Denafrip if it was way better.

   Anyway, even with that said. I've been thinking of building a tube buffer stage for my 1543. Also, I have to admit that I've been eyeing another NOS DAC for some years now... the ANK 2.1 DAC kit. But if I decided to go for it I'll hold on to my little 1543 DAC just in case I don't the ANK, although this is going to me a lot of money to find out  :icon_lol:

     
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 22 Nov 2023, 09:55 pm
Hey SET man. 

Yes, it's special.  Like the 1543 dac I mentioned above more than the modern resistor ladder dacs I've tried from Denafrips to Sonnet/Metrum.  This is especially so after I added this ddc replacing the matrix xspdif2:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805764362347.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.32.54441802h0d6Gv&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I did try some other 1543 tube dacs such as Lab12 and Border Patrol (not really a tube dac but... )  Also tried the Orchid (1541 tube dac. 

I like the $40 1543 dac more albeit when powered by the $600 HDPLEX psu. 

Although, recently, I am using this dac more than the 1543:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805660696598.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.21.54441802h0d6Gv&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

It's a sabre chip dac which I hate with a passion.  But, this dac sounds good.  I am using i2s connection between it and the ddc mentioned above.

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: WGH on 22 Nov 2023, 11:34 pm
Just swapped out the Poppulse for the TDA1543 and powering it with HDPLEX 300W's 12v DC output.  The thing sounds smooth right off the bat.  Definitely reminds me of the Scott Nixon 1543 dac...

My first DAC was a Scott Nixon Tube DAC, smooth for sure but eventually I wanted more drive plus extended highs. The TDA1543 seriously rolls off the high end.

Ted Smith, PS Audio DirectStream’s lead developer wrote:

“It’s [Philips TDA 1543 DAC] a very simple chip. For people who want NOS or R-2R style DACs it’s great. Also most people don’t seem to read the datasheet, the chip requires an opamp to meet its specs (which aren’t great), but many simply use resistors on its outputs which adds a lot of 2nd harmonic distortion and restricts the dynamic range.

"If your favorite music doesn’t have a lot of high frequencies and it doesn’t get too loud, the chip works well.

"Without an output filter the timing and waveshape of impulses is lost and PRaT will suffer, but if the original recording is already rolled off this won’t be a problem.
I suspect most people that really enjoy orchestral or, say, grunge [or rock] would be disappointed, but jazz trios, women’s solo voice, etc. should sound fine.”




But my simple 1543 have better mid overall to me, it is just more liquidity to it somehow. Some might say too laid back but to me it feel more natural, especially with female vocal.

...I've been eyeing another NOS DAC for some years now... the ANK 2.1 DAC kit. But if I decided to go for it I'll hold on to my little 1543 DAC just in case I don't the ANK, although this is going to me a lot of money to find out  :icon_lol:

Three guys in our local audio club use ANK DACs: two 5.1 Signature and a 2.1. I was predisposed to not like the ANK DACs, a lot of money for a DAC that doesn't really do hi-res (24bit/96kHz) but I have to admit it is a very, very nice DAC. I use a HoloAudio May KTE, one of these years I would like to compare the two DACs.

I recently heard the ANK 2.1. We switched between vinyl and CDs (no streaming) and honestly, without looking, I wouldn't be able to tell what source was playing.

The turntable is excellent so the ANK 2.1 acquitted itself very well.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258901&size=xlarge)


An in-progress build photo of another friend's ANK 5.1 Signature, the DAC is beautiful inside.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258902&size=xlarge)

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 23 Nov 2023, 12:21 am
the nixon dac was one of my first dacs too.  it's in my avatar.  it sounded fine after a bit of mods.  the newer dacs using 1543 are much better than the nixon.  speaking of ank, the 0.1x uses the 1543 chip and some on the internet claim it sounds better than the much higher level ank dacs.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Alfi on 23 Nov 2023, 06:45 pm
Hi Viggen,
Please describe sound of the ES9038Q2M sabre dac in greater detail and how it compares to other dacs.

Thanks,
Alfi

Hey SET man. 

Yes, it's special.  Like the 1543 dac I mentioned above more than the modern resistor ladder dacs I've tried from Denafrips to Sonnet/Metrum.  This is especially so after I added this ddc replacing the matrix xspdif2:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805764362347.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.32.54441802h0d6Gv&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I did try some other 1543 tube dacs such as Lab12 and Border Patrol (not really a tube dac but... )  Also tried the Orchid (1541 tube dac. 

I like the $40 1543 dac more albeit when powered by the $600 HDPLEX psu. 

Although, recently, I am using this dac more than the 1543:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805660696598.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.21.54441802h0d6Gv&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

It's a sabre chip dac which I hate with a passion.  But, this dac sounds good.  I am using i2s connection between it and the ddc mentioned above.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: ketchup on 24 Nov 2023, 04:21 am
Three guys in our local audio club use ANK DACs: two 5.1 Signature and a 2.1. I was predisposed to not like the ANK DACs, a lot of money for a DAC that doesn't really do hi-res (24bit/96kHz) but I have to admit it is a very, very nice DAC. I use a HoloAudio May KTE, one of these years I would like to compare the two DACs.

I recently heard the ANK 2.1. We switched between vinyl and CDs (no streaming) and honestly, without looking, I wouldn't be able to tell what source was playing.

The turntable is excellent so the ANK 2.1 acquitted itself very well.

What phonostage was used?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: WGH on 24 Nov 2023, 05:16 am
What phonostage was used?

Good question. I don't know because my friends electronics are built from scratch housed in mesquite wood cases made in his shop. He talks directly with designers and get the latest circuit modifications. The phono preamp does use tubes. The preamp may be a K&K Premium Maxxed-Out Hybrid Phono Preamplifier designed by Kevin Carter.
https://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue77/kandk.htm (https://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue77/kandk.htm)

But I do have a point of reference, we compared his phono preamp to my Hagerman Cornet2 with Sonicap Platinum, Sonicap Gen I and Mundorf S/O bypassed with .1 uF Russian FT-3 Teflon caps. Tubes are RCA 5V4GA NOS/NIB rectifier tube, 2 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS very low noise spiral filaments and a Raytheon 12AU7.

The custom phono preamp is just a smidgen better than mine in his system which is saying something because the Cornet2 is a damn good phonostage.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 26 Nov 2023, 01:51 am
Hi Viggen,
Please describe sound of the ES9038Q2M sabre dac in greater detail and how it compares to other dacs.

Thanks,
Alfi

I usually don't have difficulties characterizing a component's sound.  However, this is a tough one.  It's a sabre dac without the sibilance and ethereal airiness.  It's not emphasized in any frequency spectrum.  It reminds me of Mini LED monitors where the brightness and details appears where it is otherwise silent/dark.  It definitely does not draw attention to itself or is it romantic or fluid sounding.  Yet, it is very musical sounding.  This is about a month after first use.  There was a hint of sabre-ness when during first use.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: mick wolfe on 26 Nov 2023, 05:20 pm
A friend whose ear I trust is raving about the Topping E70 Velvet AK4499EX. Currently $381.65 at Amazon. No personal experience here, but if I were currently in the market for a DAC, I'd certainly give it a shot. No need to look for an outboard PS either... :thumb:
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 29 Nov 2023, 03:04 am
A friend whose ear I trust is raving about the Topping E70 Velvet AK4499EX. Currently $381.65 at Amazon. No personal experience here, but if I were currently in the market for a DAC, I'd certainly give it a shot. No need to look for an outboard PS either... :thumb:

Yes, the newest wave of AKM-based DACs seem to represent another step up for Delta Sigma. Maybe I'll try one out in the next few months.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 29 Nov 2023, 03:17 am
Although, recently, I am using this dac more than the 1543:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805660696598.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.21.54441802h0d6Gv&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

It's a sabre chip dac which I hate with a passion.  But, this dac sounds good.  I am using i2s connection between it and the ddc mentioned above.

Built-in OCXO and discrete class A output filter, all for $120. Fascinating. May have to get one.

Edit: Turns out this dac was designed by a longtime member on diyaudio. So some credibility there. He also has/had an r2r dac and a USB/I2S converter called 'UAC1' which is also on aliexpress.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 29 Nov 2023, 04:31 am
Built-in OCXO and discrete class A output filter, all for $120. Fascinating. May have to get one.

Edit: Turns out this dac was designed by a longtime member on diyaudio. So some credibility there. He also has/had an r2r dac and a USB/I2S converter called 'UAC1' which is also on aliexpress.

Yup I am using UAC1's i2s output to the dac.  I just ordered these:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805855753827.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.11.21ef1802HjHCDe&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805584176583.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.17.21ef1802HjHCDe&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I tracked the seller to diyaudio too. 

UAC1 is the first product I got from this seller.  Better than Singxer SU6, Denafrips Iris and Matrix XSPDIF2.  So, started buying his other products.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 29 Nov 2023, 04:47 am
Yup I am using UAC1's i2s output to the dac.  I just ordered these:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805855753827.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.11.21ef1802HjHCDe&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805584176583.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.17.21ef1802HjHCDe&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I tracked the seller to diyaudio too. 

UAC1 is the first product I got from this seller.  Better than Singxer SU6, Denafrips Iris and Matrix XSPDIF2.  So, started buying his other products.

Very cool. Will definitely check out the UAC1. Please keep us posted.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: uncola on 29 Nov 2023, 01:29 pm
some very interesting products.. wish there was an in-depth review or guide
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Charles Xavier on 29 Nov 2023, 01:38 pm
Yup I am using UAC1's i2s output to the dac.  I just ordered these:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805855753827.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.11.21ef1802HjHCDe&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805584176583.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.17.21ef1802HjHCDe&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I tracked the seller to diyaudio too. 

UAC1 is the first product I got from this seller.  Better than Singxer SU6, Denafrips Iris and Matrix XSPDIF2.  So, started buying his other products.

Do you have more info or links on the UAC1? Not much I can find with google.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 29 Nov 2023, 04:26 pm
Do you have more info or links on the UAC1? Not much I can find with google.

AliExpress UAC1 link: https://tinyurl.com/bddk9ch9 (https://tinyurl.com/bddk9ch9)

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 29 Nov 2023, 05:28 pm
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/uac-1-fifo-usb-audio-interface.393626/

his product page on taobao:
https://world.taobao.com/dianpu/35618623.htm?spm=a21wu.12321156-tw.shop-area.1.12f74eabHPadm1
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 6 Dec 2023, 03:27 am
(https://i.postimg.cc/zHNCmS04/PXL-20231206-032052324.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHNCmS04)

as for the clock, the ad states 10-12v input but the one I received states 7-9v.  good thing i checked before plugging in the 12v input.  so becareful.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805584176583.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.17.21ef1802HNY9r8&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

too early to make an opinion.  i did get a little dizzy on my first listen.  not used to the "air" swirling around me?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Digi-G on 6 Dec 2023, 04:00 pm
"Air swirling around you"?  Can you elaborate?  Is that a good thing?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Charles Xavier on 6 Dec 2023, 04:39 pm
Is there a difference between these two other than the name UAC1 and UAC-1. And what power supply are you using?

https://world.taobao.com/item/681228697041.htm?spm=a21wu.11804641-tw.shop-content.15.4617718caTZX5h

https://world.taobao.com/item/695632033271.htm?spm=a21wu.11804641-tw.shop-content.18.4617718cKxl3HA
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 6 Dec 2023, 08:13 pm
"Air swirling around you"?  Can you elaborate?  Is that a good thing?

i guess it's tantamount to going from a no suspension turntable to a spring suspension turntable if you've experienced the difference.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 6 Dec 2023, 08:14 pm
Is there a difference between these two other than the name UAC1 and UAC-1. And what power supply are you using?

https://world.taobao.com/item/681228697041.htm?spm=a21wu.11804641-tw.shop-content.15.4617718caTZX5h

https://world.taobao.com/item/695632033271.htm?spm=a21wu.11804641-tw.shop-content.18.4617718cKxl3HA

they are the same and I am using HDPLEX300's 9v output.  the one i ordered is the one in wushuling's post above.  however, the one i received didn't have a clock input.  so, i had to order a difference one to get the clock input:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805855753827.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.11.21ef1802HNY9r8&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: Charles Xavier on 7 Dec 2023, 11:00 am
they are the same and I am using HDPLEX300's 9v output.  the one i ordered is the one in wushuling's post above.  however, the one i received didn't have a clock input.  so, i had to order a difference one to get the clock input:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805855753827.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.11.21ef1802HNY9r8&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

So this one above is the one you ended up ordering because the original one you ordered in Wushulings post came without a clock input even though it's supposed too. Correct?
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 7 Dec 2023, 05:26 pm
Yes I ordered two of these DDCs about a few months apart.

The link in Wushuling's post shows the UAC1 with clock input but current version of UAC1 doesn't have clock input.  Some sellers on aliexpress has the updated pic and some doesn't. 

The new DDC I just received is SI384.  This one has a clock input but, not only that, you HAVE to have a clock connected for it to work.  Good thing is the clock plus DDC together is only about $250.

If I had to compare between the two.   UAC1 is slightly more euphoric compared to SI384.  It's not euphoric sounding at all but if I had to compare the two the UAC1 is the more euphoric one.  They are both super musical which is a quality I find lacking in the other DDCs I've tried.  Other than that, SI384 paints a fuller picture.  I wouldn't say it's more detailed in the classical DAC sound signature sense.  But, it brings background details more forward not in a way I'd say "oh I hear more detail" but rather "the picture/sound is more complete". 

Also, I just acquired the Aeolus magiDac off a seller on this site.  I first tried it with UAC1.  Sound is very good.  Lows is strong but highs are slightly hash.  After switching to SI384, the lows are less pronounced but the highs are tamer in a good way.  I think this is because "noise" is lowered hence the overall sound is more balanced and musical.  I am listening to the magicDac and SI384 combo at the moment and find it very very musical. 

I think these no name DDCs are very good at bringing out the potential in older R2R dacs much better than the other DDCs I've tried. 

Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: viggen on 8 Jan 2024, 10:32 pm
It's been about a month since the SI384 DDC and the accompanying -100hz clock arrived.  With the dacs I have on hand, I actually prefer the UAC1 DDC.  The SI384 exhibits a more studio quality sound.  With each dac I tried, there's more space/air/detail and such.  But, the UAC1 sounds more musical to me.  Then, I found a Pontus mk1 on audiomart and the seller is very local to me.  So, wtheck might as well try it out.  I did previously own a Pontus mk2 but didn't like it but that when I had the Singxer SU6 and didn't appreciate the lack of longer term listenability. 

First, I plugged in the Pontus to the UAC1 via RCA/SPDIF.  It didn't sound annoying compared to the previous Pontus but it sounded kind of boring.  The Pontus 2 had a huge sound to it but its fake N/OS sound was hurting my ears after 10 minutes.  With this, it has long term listenability but lacks the charm of my other dacs when connected to the UAC1.  So, the UAC1 has an i2s output.  I thought what's the chance that they are actually compatible.  Well, they are compatible.

With i2s, the sound changed slightly.  Cleaner in a good way.  Slightly raised soundstage and less background noise.  But, only marginal improvement.  Then, I plugged the Pontus into the SI384.  The SI384 actually made a bigger improvement on the Pontus than the UAC1 did.  And, weirdly, it didn't improvement the sound by making it more audiophile sounding.  It's actually very listenable and even a bit charming.

Overall, I think SI384 is a bargain in terms of matching it up with your pre-existing Denafrips.  But, in terms of dac/ddc, I think I still prefer the UAC1/TDA1543 dac.  The sound has more character.  And, it's so small and diminutive on the hifi stand.  But, this is with the HDPLEX300 powering the pair.  If using lesser PSU, the SI384/Pontus probably sounds better if memory of my listening experience sans HDPLEX300 is correct.
Title: Re: More Amazing DACs for Peanuts
Post by: wushuliu on 12 Jan 2024, 09:26 pm
It's been about a month since the SI384 DDC and the accompanying -100hz clock arrived.  With the dacs I have on hand, I actually prefer the UAC1 DDC.  The SI384 exhibits a more studio quality sound.  With each dac I tried, there's more space/air/detail and such.  But, the UAC1 sounds more musical to me.  Then, I found a Pontus mk1 on audiomart and the seller is very local to me.  So, wtheck might as well try it out.  I did previously own a Pontus mk2 but didn't like it but that when I had the Singxer SU6 and didn't appreciate the lack of longer term listenability. 

First, I plugged in the Pontus to the UAC1 via RCA/SPDIF.  It didn't sound annoying compared to the previous Pontus but it sounded kind of boring.  The Pontus 2 had a huge sound to it but its fake N/OS sound was hurting my ears after 10 minutes.  With this, it has long term listenability but lacks the charm of my other dacs when connected to the UAC1.  So, the UAC1 has an i2s output.  I thought what's the chance that they are actually compatible.  Well, they are compatible.

With i2s, the sound changed slightly.  Cleaner in a good way.  Slightly raised soundstage and less background noise.  But, only marginal improvement.  Then, I plugged the Pontus into the SI384.  The SI384 actually made a bigger improvement on the Pontus than the UAC1 did.  And, weirdly, it didn't improvement the sound by making it more audiophile sounding.  It's actually very listenable and even a bit charming.

Overall, I think SI384 is a bargain in terms of matching it up with your pre-existing Denafrips.  But, in terms of dac/ddc, I think I still prefer the UAC1/TDA1543 dac.  The sound has more character.  And, it's so small and diminutive on the hifi stand.  But, this is with the HDPLEX300 powering the pair.  If using lesser PSU, the SI384/Pontus probably sounds better if memory of my listening experience sans HDPLEX300 is correct.

Thanks for the update!