[drphoto]

Ok, I think I've beat this horse to death, but one more. I've found the annoying vocal harshness that bothers me is very recording specific. So I think that's the problem. I think these speakers are ruthlessly revealing rather than euphonic. Maybe the woofers ring, I dunno.....I just know in a desktop rig.....pretty damn good sound. Because of the placement, it's never gonna have that 3D soundstage effect. I'm freeing myself from 'audio nervosa' and just enjoying what I have.

That might all change when I start putting my main rig together with Maggie LRS +Gr-Research crossover, driven by Odyssey Stratos monos, that Klaus is gonna upgrade to the uber version. Hopefully get an ANK DAC. (kit clone of audio note R2R tube Dac)

Cheers guys.....thanks for all the replies.

[jmimac351]

Ok, I think I've beat this horse to death, but one more. I've found the annoying vocal harshness that bothers me is very recording specific. So I think that's the problem. I think these speakers are ruthlessly revealing rather than euphonic. Maybe the woofers ring, I dunno.....I just know in a desktop rig.....pretty damn good sound. Because of the placement, it's never gonna have that 3D soundstage effect. I'm freeing myself from 'audio nervosa' and just enjoying what I have.

1) The drivers ring.  Danny measured them.  If not, I owe you a dollar.  You're not suffering from "audio nervosa".  Something is off and it's visceral.  You can resolve this and put money in your pocket.

2) I have experienced, first hand, and Danny has recently measured, with my Wilson Audio Duette, that "ruthlessly revealing" is tipped up response between 1-2khz. Some people like that.  I don't.  Danny measured my Duette and it had no baffle step compensation... and was "ruthlessly revealing".  Danny measured the VSM, it had no baffle step compensation and is "ruthless revealing".  I'd be willing to bet the TSM also has no baffle step compensation, as it was designed by the same person, and is "ruthlessly revealing".  If not, I owe you another dollar.

3) I have heard speakers that Danny did the crossover for that I bought from FakeBook Marketplace for One Hundred and Fifty American Dollars... AV123 ELT525T. They don't even have Sonicaps, which would increase clarity.  I can listen to them on-axis, and they are better than the TSM, of which I owned 2 pairs.  I think I sold my TSM for $1,600.

4) You could sell the TSMs, put a stack of 100 bills in your pocket, and choose a better (sounding) tool for your desktop job.  Danny designed the LGK for exactly what you're doing.  I think it's highly unlikely you won't like them better.  If you don't, then at least you have a stack of 100 bills in your pocket... plus 2 dollars.

 

[jmimac351]

Danny measured a VSM speaker long ago and it didn't measure that well.  He's sent me the measurements.  What I've seen elsewhere is that later versions of the VSM measured better, as there were subsequent upgrades done by Bobby to the crossover.  Rich Brkich at Signature Sound was a close friend of Bobby's and actively supports those speakers, and Joule Electra equipment.  Merlin speakers and Joule Electra tube gear go hand in hand.  I've meant to ask Rich whether the later versions of the VSM crossover, specifically the Black Magic version I have, actually adjusted the response of the speaker, rather than just swapping in better parts.  I didn't know enough at the time to even ask that question when I paid him for the upgrade.

FYI, here's a look at the Black Magic version of the VSM crossover.

Following up on this... I had a conversation... the Merlin Music VSM had no significant crossover revisions, so the measurements posted are what they are.  It's a shame Danny wasn't able to do a crossover for them when he had one in house.  Esotar tweeter / Scan-Speak woofer... could have been interesting.

[Danny Richie]

1) The drivers ring.  Danny measured them.  If not, I owe you a dollar.  You're no suffering from "audio nervosa".  Something is off and it's visceral.  You can resolve this and put money in your pocket.

2) I have experienced, first hand, and Danny has recently measured, with my Wilson Audio Duette, that "ruthlessly revealing" is tipped up response between 1-2khz. Some people like that.  I don't.  Danny measured my Duette and it had no baffle step compensation... and was "ruthlessly revealing".  Danny measured the VSM, it had no baffle step compensation and is "ruthless revealing".  I'd be willing to bet the TSM also has no baffle step compensation, as it was designed by the same person, and is "ruthlessly revealing".  If not, I owe you another dollar.

3) I have heard speakers that Danny did the crossover for that I bought from FakeBook Marketplace for One Hundred and Fifty American Dollars... AV123 ELT525T. They don't even have Sonicaps, which would increase clarity.  I can listen to them on-axis, and they are better than the TSM, of which I owned 2 pairs.  I think I sold my TSM for $1,600.

4) You could sell the TSMs, put a stack of 100 bills in your pocket, and choose a better (sounding) tool for your desktop job.  Danny designed the LGK for exactly what you're doing.  I think it's highly unlikely you won't like them better.  If you don't, then at least you have a stack of 100 bills in your pocket... plus 2 dollars.

 

That is actually really good advice.

[jmimac351]

Danny, I am correct that you never actually designed a crossover for the VSM that was sent in? 

If not... since we're talking about some Merlin stuffs... I'm considering trying to move my uninstalled "Merlin Black Magic" crossovers along to an as yet to be identified Merlin VSM owner.  Someone will want them, I guess.  I'm also considering selling the Esotar Tweeters / Scan-Speak 8545 drivers to an owner as "spares" (hopefully).  It's a ported tower.  I'd be willing to bet that I could plug in your Encore kit, modify internal volume of the VSM tower (if necessary) and end up with a better speaker... and maybe a few dollars in MY pocket!  My pocket is my favorite pocket! 

Or... what if... we could just plop in a M165 woofer, and you take a stab at matching it with the Esotar tweeter and / or vice versa. You obviously know that M165 driver better than anyone, and you've already measured the Esotar tweeter (Twice, including the EgglestonWorks Fontaine speaker).  I can tell you what the values are that are currently on it.  If you need a tweeter to measure actual parameters, that's not much to ship (a lot better than an 85lbs speaker!).  The Scan-Speak 8545 appears to ring awyway, but there's nothing wrong with the Esotar tweeter. 

Whatever the case, I think there could be some doable options rather than just me "getting rid of the speaker".  I could end up with a really cool speaker... I've owned it for 24 years.  It would be nice to give it a new life.

[jmimac351]

The baffle width is the same as the X-SLS Encore Tower.  If Esotar tweeter is a big hassle, can make an offset plate for T26SG Tweeter, if necessary:

[jmimac351]

The woofer mounting screws appear to work fine: 

[jmimac351]

It may not be absolutely perfect, but....it should be a lot better than what I have right now!

[jmimac351]

I'm either going to make the Merlin VSM better, for me, or start a fire.