Sony XA5400ES Mods Anyone?

modwright · « **Reply #80 on:** 26 Apr 2009, 05:43 pm »

We are in WA State, close to Portland, OR.

My comment about fuses is simply meant to convey that I don't advocate oversizing fuses in any of our gear. It will simply void the warranty as you introduce issues of liability, etc.

The SS OP stage can certainly be fit in either the Sony or the Oppo. I have both players en-route to my shop right now and both mods will be developed in parallel. I will thus be evaluating the SS OP stage in both players.

While I am a fan of both tube and SS sound, we did choose pure SS design for our first amplifier - the KWA 150 - and based on customer feedback, I believe we have achieved the goal of tube magic and SS strength. SS devices have come a long way and Alan Kimmel - long time tube designer - has applied his expertise to SS designs with similar principles.

I don't believe that one is better than the other - tube vs. SS designs. Rather, I believe that they both have their strengths and I prefer to use whichever technology sounds best for a given application.

The history of tubes vs. SS design is interesting. When transistors first became available, everyone got away from tubes, despite the fact that the first SS designs sounded terrible. Many people then returned to tubes and SET designs in particular. These days, I believe that a melding of modern tech and tubes allows for brilliant design possibilities. Better SS devices and knowledge learned over time have also allowed for exceptional SS designs.

There is also the subjective preference part of the equation. We all prefer different tonalities, presentation, etc. Those who know our designs and my sonic preferences, are familiar with our house sound. I don't like clinical, bright and cold sound. I also don't like characteristic 'tubey' sound, lacking detail and bass. I believe that it is possible to design for a very neutral and natural sound, that reproduces the original event as nearly as possible.

More and more, I am finding that customers and spouses/friends of our customers who are in the music business, classically trained musicians, etc., are very drawn to the sound of our designs. This tells me that no matter whether we are using tubes or SS devices, we are reaching our desired goal.

Sincerely,

Dan W.

Syrah · « **Reply #81 on:** 27 Apr 2009, 01:48 am »

Hi Dan and All,

Any thoughts as to how a modded 5400 might stack up to the modded 9100 on 2 ch sound quality? How 'bout vs. the Transporter?

Thanks.

Disbeliever · « **Reply #82 on:** 27 Apr 2009, 07:11 am »

Hi Dan For some reason or other I thought Modwright was in Australia which was why I asked for your location, I should have Googled. Anyway if Sony supply a cord fitted with a 13 amp fuse with the UK XA5400ES how can it void the warranty. B.S. regulations state the power cord rating is the factor that determines the fuse size, in other words you would not fit a 13 amp fuse to a thin power cord . Also the component would have internal fuse for protection. My experience is that better sound comes with larger rated fuses because the losses are reduced caused by the connection sockets etc. I also understand that in the US you have problems with "brown outs " etc so are conservative regarding fuses.

modwright · « **Reply #83 on:** 27 Apr 2009, 05:26 pm »

Perhaps we I misunderstood. If you mean that the cord is rated for 13A, then I understand. I thought that you wer advocating replacing the internal fuse for a 13A rated unit. I would NOT advise replacing the stock fuse in any gear with a fuse that exceeds the design ratings of the unit. Certainly, using a mains cord rated for higher current is not a bad thing. Sorry if I misunderstood here.

RE the Sony XA5400ES vs. the Sony 9100ES, because we are going to be implementing a more advanced tube circuit, I DO expect it to sound better than the 9100ES and our earlier modified players. With every new player that we modify, not only are we working with new tech lasers and chipsets, but we also step up our game and incorporate all of the new design ideas that we have learned to date.

The transporter is a different unit, because it is computer based, etc. The circuit technology will certainly be similar. I can't say which will sound better and this will, in my opinion, largely be dictated by the different medium - i.e. disc player vs. computer server.

Thanks,

Dan W.

owenmd · « **Reply #84 on:** 27 Apr 2009, 08:52 pm »

Hi Dan,

If I'm not mistaken, I believe the gentleman is referring to the fuse in the power cord itself?

The UK is different to the US in that many power cords have the fuse built into the wall plug itself, unlike US plugs (male) that don't have a fuse built in and rely on the fuse in the equipment itself.

Mark

Quote from: modwright on 27 Apr 2009, 05:26 pm

Perhaps we I misunderstood. If you mean that the cord is rated for 13A, then I understand. I thought that you wer advocating replacing the internal fuse for a 13A rated unit. I would NOT advise replacing the stock fuse in any gear with a fuse that exceeds the design ratings of the unit. Certainly, using a mains cord rated for higher current is not a bad thing. Sorry if I misunderstood here.

RE the Sony XA5400ES vs. the Sony 9100ES, because we are going to be implementing a more advanced tube circuit, I DO expect it to sound better than the 9100ES and our earlier modified players. With every new player that we modify, not only are we working with new tech lasers and chipsets, but we also step up our game and incorporate all of the new design ideas that we have learned to date.

The transporter is a different unit, because it is computer based, etc. The circuit technology will certainly be similar. I can't say which will sound better and this will, in my opinion, largely be dictated by the different medium - i.e. disc player vs. computer server.

Thanks,

Dan W.

modwright · « **Reply #85 on:** 28 Apr 2009, 12:09 am »

Thanks for that clarification. You may very well be right.

Dan

modwright · « **Reply #86 on:** 29 Apr 2009, 04:19 pm »

The outboard PS design is complete for the XA5400ES.

It is really only a matter of finalizing the tube circuit design and then adapting the circuit to the player as well as seeing what other upgrades will be warranted inside the unit. I am considering designing a fully differential balanced circuit for this unit, rather than a SE circuit with output transformers. There are advantages to both, but I want to evaluate this approach. This may involve three tubes instead of two. The two dual triodes will be for the differential circuits and the third tube will serve a different purpose. I do intend to make it compatible with the EML tube and may use 6SN7 tubes as drivers. I may have the rectifier tube mounted in the player also, with only the transformer in a smaller separate box. This would be quite a departure from our previous mods, but this is also intended to be a step above anything we have done in the past...

The SS circuit design is complete for the Oppo and I have only to design the analog supply.

Both players will be here shortly and I am preparing in advance for their arrival.

Thanks,

Dan

Jon L · « **Reply #87 on:** 29 Apr 2009, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 29 Apr 2009, 04:19 pm

and may use 6SN7 tubes as drivers.

Noooo.... (As my wallet hides)

Actually, I personally don't care since I have a huge box full of NOS 6SN7/VT231's, but the NOS prices are just insane these days. To add to injury, current-production 6SN7s just have not come through in sound even though there are good new tubes for other tube types, e.g. Sovtek 12AX7LPS, JJ ECC82, Shuaguang 2A3C, etc.

modwright · « **Reply #88 on:** 29 Apr 2009, 08:10 pm »

Interesting. I wasn't sure how good the current production 6SN7's were. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I thought that I might head this direction, given the satisfaction with them in the Transporter.

Thanks,

Dan

Jon L · « **Reply #89 on:** 29 Apr 2009, 08:57 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 29 Apr 2009, 08:10 pm

Interesting. I wasn't sure how good the current production 6SN7's were. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I thought that I might head this direction, given the satisfaction with them in the Transporter.

Thanks,

Dan

The MW transporter fave Tung Sol roundplate 6SN7's easily hit $350-400/pair. I realize current transporter owners seemed to have agreed this to be the best, but the more 6SN7 MW products you sell, the worse the situation will become

One solution is to offer an option to use 12SN7 tubes instead of 6SN7. For example, the Tung Sol 12SN7 roundplates are constructed exactly the same as Tung Sol 6SN7 roundplates, except for having 12V heater instead. FYI, Tung Sol 12SN7 roundplates can be bought for <$10 if you look patiently.

Another solution is to have both 6V and 12V supplies, which can be toggled with a switch like some other tube amps out there already do.

zybar · « **Reply #90 on:** 29 Apr 2009, 08:59 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 29 Apr 2009, 08:10 pm

Interesting. I wasn't sure how good the current production 6SN7's were. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I thought that I might head this direction, given the satisfaction with them in the Transporter.

Thanks,

Dan

Dan,

While NOS 6SN7 tubes can be very pricey (especially for the top rated ones), there are still many NOS 6SN7 tubes out there that don't break the bank. I think the costs of NOS 6SN7 tubes are in-line with the cost of the gear and your modification services. This cost balance shouldn't preclude people from buying NOS 6SN7 tubes in order to maximize their enjoyment of your products.

As an extremely happy Modwright Transporter owner who helped champion the use of 6SN7's, I really hope that you keep this option available on this and other modifications you have planned.

George

ted_b · « **Reply #91 on:** 29 Apr 2009, 09:24 pm »

Yes, I agree with George (zybar). When I brought up the idea of octal adapters in the MW TP, and a chance to try the 6SN7-ish world, George had previous experience with them...and immediately said that although the TS round plates were the filet mignon, there were plenty of great steaks out there like the CBS/Hytrons, Raytheons, Brimars, Ken-Rads, RCA VT-231's, etc. And he was right. And they go for like $100/pair max. They provided better sonics, in our opinion, than any of the nine pin varieties, right out of the gate. If you want to spring for the best, then yes, $350-400 is the going price. Same as Dan's other mods. My MW Denon 3910 sounds fabulous with my Amperex PQ orange label 7119's but if you wanna try some Wayne Donnelly-approved Bendix 6900's they'll set you back $600 (and not worth it, IMO).

modwright · « **Reply #92 on:** 30 Apr 2009, 09:33 pm »

Thanks guys. I am leaning towards going this route. I am also toying with the idea of having the rectifier tube and PS circuitry inside the player, much like the Transporter, with just the power transformer in an outboard box. The advantages of this being that the outboard box can be put anywhere and is a sort of set and forget item. All tubes will be accessible from the player and of course it will be designed to accept the EML mesh plate tube also. There will likely be four tubes used in this player as it will be fully differential and three signal tubes will be used in the audio circuitry with of course one rectifier tube.

This also lessens the requirement for a high-quality umbilical as it will only be carrying raw AC from the transformer. This cost reduction will allow for $ to be spent elsewhere internally in the design. I still haven't decided if it will use output transformers like the Transporter, but possibly not.

Aside from the actual power supply circuit design, which will be the same as our NEW PS 9.0 circuit, I am wiping the slate clean as far as the analog stage design. I believe I will use the 6SN7 as basis of design.

Thanks guys!

Dan

AB · « **Reply #93 on:** 30 Apr 2009, 11:19 pm »

This is getting interesting!

So, has anyone tried the current production 6SN7 tubes from EH or TungSol in their Transporters or did everyone just go straight to the NOS? I'm curious to know if the $20-$30 tubes are any good or if it's a NOS or nothing thing.

Philistine · « **Reply #94 on:** 30 Apr 2009, 11:52 pm »

Quote from: AB on 30 Apr 2009, 11:19 pm

This is getting interesting!

So, has anyone tried the current production 6SN7 tubes from EH or TungSol in their Transporters or did everyone just go straight to the NOS? I'm curious to know if the $20-$30 tubes are any good or if it's a NOS or nothing thing.

Yes, I tried the new production Tung Sol 6SN7's to ensure all was up and running before trying the more exotic NOS versions. I can identify that they're both from the same family, if I hadn't heard the NOS versions I could have lived with the new production tubes. The NOS versions I find to be smoother, more musical and refined - I'm sorry to say and, IMHO, the difference is significant enough for me to justify the price premium.

modwright · « **Reply #95 on:** 1 May 2009, 04:17 am »

Thanks for that Philip. I won't be able to sell our modified units with exotic NOS 6SN7's, but it is good to knwo that the current production tubes are at least good.

I'm getting quite excited about this new mod and am anxious to design with the 6SN7. I have always been a fan of the 6CG7 and considered it quite under rated. To be honest, I didn't expect the bigger bottle to really make any difference. After getting to know the EML tube however, I guess it is true what they say....

Dan

DTB300 · « **Reply #96 on:** 1 May 2009, 01:52 pm »

Any thought of adding EML compatibility to the PS 9.0? Not an electronics wiz, so better to ask

Jon L · « **Reply #97 on:** 1 May 2009, 05:09 pm »

Quote from: DTB300 on 1 May 2009, 01:52 pm

Any thought of adding EML compatibility to the PS 9.0? Not an electronics wiz, so better to ask

While we are on the wish list...

Dan, is there ANY way, at all possible, pretty Puleez, you could chat with Gordon Rankin to maybe offer an optional asynch USB input on the player? It will sell like Hotcakes. Heck, I will buy one sight-unseen

modwright · « **Reply #98 on:** 1 May 2009, 06:42 pm »

Hi and thanks for mentioning this. I hadn't thought of sourcing this from Gordon or someone. I actually just called Gordon and he is a real gentleman. At this point, there is a tech. license option, but it is too expensive for this project - i.e. not feasible. He may be offering a PCB to allow for async. USB to SPDIF conversion in the future, but no indication of when. If so, the cost quoted at OEM level is not out of the question at all. At the very least, I WILL consider the option of offering a SPDIF (RCA) digital input as an option for the mod, that could be upgraded to Gorden's USB system when available.

No promises here guys, but I AM listening and will see what I can do.

Take care,

Dan W.

Disbeliever · « **Reply #99 on:** 2 May 2009, 05:54 am »

May Stereophile has now arrived in Borders (Uk) For confirmation of how good the XA5400ES is, in 'Music in the Round' Kal Rubinson gives his take on this now discontinued excellent value for money player and believe it or not I totally agree with every word Kal says. I look forward to reading Part 2 of the review but wonder what is going to replace the XA5400ES ?