AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: R. Daneel on 29 Jun 2015, 02:24 pm
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Hello!
Okay, I am really puzzled by the recent problems I've been having with the BDP-1. This is a copy of my last email to Mr. Chris RIce:
Hi Chris!
I ran tests yesterday. To my surprise, during the long 10-hour listening session and staring at the monitor there were no interruptions in playback. Not a single one. All the tracks were 192kHz sampling, either FLAC or WAV.
So I hoped you did something remotely and fixed the issue.
Unfortunately, the same problems started to happen today and this time they are worse -- a continuous distortion in playback that seems as though it is "struggling" to play the files when only yesterday these same files played perfectly. Yet, the CPU load is averaging at 30% at all times and it never exceeds 45%, not even during the distortion.
So now I am experiencing both distortion and interruptions. It makes the BDP-1 completely unusable because I bought it specifically for high-res playback, not really because I intended to rip my CD collection to FLAC.
I have posted this on Audiocircle only to see if other people had problems like these and what they had done to solve them. I am desperate at this point.
I don't know what's causing these problems.
From a computer standpoint, they might have to do with either software or hardware, or both. I have taken all the given advice - upgrade the firmware to the newest version, turned the Samba server off, compare the USB and AES outputs, try to pinpoint the CPU load at which the problems occur etc. Nothing helped.
From an audiophile standpoint, the blessing of being able to have a solid-state high-res player has turned into a curse and the machine is virtually unusable as long as it is experiencing these problems. I do a lot of recording to tape for different purposes - you can imagine this has made it impossible to do so.
If the hardware is really the problem, then it seems I made the wrong decision to buy the BDP-1 when in fact I should have bought the BDP-2. If the hardware is not the problem then surely other BDP-1 units would be faced with the same problem.
It is sad and frustration at the same time. While I love what the BDP-1 does to the sound, it means very little when it can't play a single track without destroying the experience with either distorting or interrupting the playback with rather unpleasant "pops" and "ticks" which aren't really healthy for the soeakers I can imagine.
Tell me what to do.
Cheers!
Antun
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Hi Antun
Chris tells me he is remotely connected and will try some things.
james
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Hi Antun
Chris tells me he is remotely connected and will try some things.
james
Hi James!
I hope something can be done.
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Where are the files you are trying to play: e.g. on NAS/PC via network, thumbdrive, locally attached HDD or SSD? Have you tried playing the same files from an alternative location to see if the problem persists? Rather than the BDP it could be a network problem or fault with a local disc drive for example.
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My experience with pops and ticks goes back to cd. It was the conversion software that was the culprit. On some occasions is was poor cd quality so a quality brand was what I sought out and continued to use.
After changing conversion software the pops and digital artifacts where gone, this was with mp3. Being that drives are in the digital realm I don't see that being any different for conversion software. :smoke:
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Try a different USB cable it that is what you are using. I had the same problem with my new DAC. Playing hi rez files higher than 96K caused clicks and pops until I tried a shorter and better usb cable. It completely solved the problem. I am using JRiver.
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Yeah, it doesn't take much for digital signals to get corrupted. A bad cable, a loose connection, etc. I know it seems silly, but I'd disconnect and then reconnect every connection to and from the BDP. After that, try replacing every cable, but one at a time.
If that doesn't work and Chris can't address it from remote, send it in to Bryston. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to troubleshoot computers when you aren't right in front of them. And one little invisible problem can result in an error you can't even reliably duplicate.
Every so often (in the last 20 years), I'd get someone's PC with a problem where, eventually, the computer would crash, but it wasn't always the same combination that caused the problem. It usually came down to a fault in the RAM chip. Depending in thousands of things the PC was doing every second, it may or may not finally use that flawed portion of the memory. And then the error or problem wasn't always the same (a file corrupted by a faulty portion of RAM is different than corrupting a portion of executable code).
Incredibly impossible to diagnose over the phone. In person, I could usually isolate the problem in an hour or so (usually less). Power supply problems are just as difficult.
Anyway, my point is, it'll be a LOT easier for Chris to troubleshoot when he can get his hands on it.
- Garrett
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Try a different USB cable it that is what you are using. I had the same problem with my new DAC. Playing hi rez files higher than 96K caused clicks and pops until I tried a shorter and better usb cable. It completely solved the problem. I am using JRiver.
I'm using an AES balanced digital cable, the Bryston one.
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Yeah, it doesn't take much for digital signals to get corrupted. A bad cable, a loose connection, etc. I know it seems silly, but I'd disconnect and then reconnect every connection to and from the BDP. After that, try replacing every cable, but one at a time.
If that doesn't work and Chris can't address it from remote, send it in to Bryston. It's INCREDIBLY difficult to troubleshoot computers when you aren't right in front of them. And one little invisible problem can result in an error you can't even reliably duplicate.
Every so often (in the last 20 years), I'd get someone's PC with a problem where, eventually, the computer would crash, but it wasn't always the same combination that caused the problem. It usually came down to a fault in the RAM chip. Depending in thousands of things the PC was doing every second, it may or may not finally use that flawed portion of the memory. And then the error or problem wasn't always the same (a file corrupted by a faulty portion of RAM is different than corrupting a portion of executable code).
Incredibly impossible to diagnose over the phone. In person, I could usually isolate the problem in an hour or so (usually less). Power supply problems are just as difficult.
Anyway, my point is, it'll be a LOT easier for Chris to troubleshoot when he can get his hands on it.
- Garrett
Hi Garret!
This is not the first time it happened but it is the worst yet. I have tried everything. It doesn't matter which or what kind of a drive, it doesn't matter which or what kind of a connection or if you're using SPDIF or USB output to the BDA-2, it is problematic.
I think looking at it remotely is as good as having it on hand as far as software goes. If it's the hardware, then no one will bother to trace the malfunctionand will just replace the part with another one.
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I experienced similar issues a while ago, in my case was correlated with high CPU and swap usage; not only to 192KHz files; I reported this to Chris on private email.
I assume some processes were not properly managed. My music is stored on NAS.
I agree with Daneel it is not related to cables or to the files; there are some processes running uncontrolled that take priority
However it is difficult to monitor this; TOP command should indicate what processes are taking priority, but still out of our expertise
After upgrade to S2.14 2015-06-08 this did not happened anymore, however I did not spent time for stress testing
Also I use a "routine" when it comes to upgrades and playback
- save playlists to my computer
- turn off/ on BDP, take time until square sign is displayed
- reset to default settings
- turn off/ on BDP, take time until square sign is displayed
- start update
- turn off/ on BDP, take time until square sign is displayed
- set preferences*, copy playlists back on BDP
- turn off/ on BDP, take time until square sign is displayed
- start playback
Note * I do not use any of the functionalities provided by Bryston related to album / artist databases, the only settings I have are: Enable MPD watch, last.fm user and password, playlist count set to 900 and add line "replaygain;album" in <root>/mnt/img/mpdconf.set
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....
Note * I do not use any of the functionalities provided by Bryston related to album / artist databases, the only settings I have are: Enable MPD watch, last.fm user and password, playlist count set to 900 and add line "replaygain;album" in <root>/mnt/img/mpdconf.set
HI Ttsto,
What's your experience with replay gain, does it work as you'd expect it to? Do you have all music played evenly?
Ive been trying to enter the .mnt/img folders, supposedly in developer-mode, but am locked out, how did you manage to get in?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123851)
Thanks,
Marius
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My solution was to revert to Looney Loon. Everything works perfectly.
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I had similar problems with my BDP-1 to what Antun reports but with the last three MM releases they stopped. At the time I even considered reverting to LL. I do not use a NAS, though, all my music is on a WD Passport 2TB HDD connected directly to the BDP-1 (with the same USB cable that came with the HDD).
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HI Antun,
May seem silly, but i don't read you mentioning the speakers. Have you tested those?
I remember being shocked at one time by the distortion I thought to emanate my Bryston rig, while in the end it turned out I had blown the Quad Esl's, apparently by connecting things that shouldn't be....
The deterioration is exactly what i experienced, that's what triggered me to ask.
Ended up with 2 of these beauties after that, but that's besides your problems: http://www.quad-musik-shop.com/ESL63-QA/en
Hope things turn out just as well for you!
Keep in touch on AC
Marius
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My solution was to revert to Looney Loon. Everything works perfectly.
Hi!
Hmm... Well, I suppose I could do that but what is the point of an open-source system if it cannot work with the latest software? It might fix the problem but when I bought the BDP-1, there were other solutions that weren't upgradeable and it was one of the things that swayed me in the Bryston direction, apart from the obvious one - audio quality.
Cheers!
Antun
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HI Antun,
May seem silly, but i don't read you mentioning the speakers. Have you tested those?
I remember being shocked at one time by the distortion I thought to emanate my Bryston rig, while in the end it turned out I had blown the Quad Esl's, apparently by connecting things that shouldn't be....
The deterioration is exactly what i experienced, that's what triggered me to ask.
Ended up with 2 of these beauties after that, but that's besides your problems: http://www.quad-musik-shop.com/ESL63-QA/en
Hope things turn out just as well for you!
Keep in touch on AC
Marius
Hi Marius!
Your question is not silly at all. Let me tell you, I disconnected everything and tried each each individual component of the system with a different system just to be sure. The problem is with the BDP-1, nothing else.
I use headphones most of the time and that makes the problem that much more audible and disturbing.
I will report back when I have some news. Chris has run different tests, "poking around" as he put it, and finally told me he believes the problems lie elsewhere, not in the BDP-1. But I don't see how that could be, I've tried every kind of a drive, besides the NAS which is downstairs.
Perhaps the BDP-1 just doesn't have the firepower to counter the ever-increasing demands by it's software.
Cheers!
Antun
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HI Ttsto,
What's your experience with replay gain, does it work as you'd expect it to? Do you have all music played evenly?
Ive been trying to enter the .mnt/img folders, supposedly in developer-mode, but am locked out, how did you manage to get in?
Thanks,
Marius
Hi
I am on Windows and use WinSCP to connect to BDP, login as root
ReplayGain works as it is supposed to, of course if such info exists in the files; for adding ReplayGain to the .flac files I use Foobar
For me is critical for headphone listening, when I listen to several albumsor on playlist; a jump of 9db between an old mastering and new mastering is quite unpleasant
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123864)
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Hi Marius!
Your question is not silly at all. Let me tell you, I disconnected everything and tried each each individual component of the system with a different system just to be sure. The problem is with the BDP-1, nothing else.
I use headphones most of the time and that makes the problem that much more audible and disturbing.
I will report back when I have some news. Chris has run different tests, "poking around" as he put it, and finally told me he believes the problems lie elsewhere, not in the BDP-1. But I don't see how that could be, I've tried every kind of a drive, besides the NAS which is downstairs.
Perhaps the BDP-1 just doesn't have the firepower to counter the ever-increasing demands by it's software.
Cheers!
Antun
The BDP-1 plays back 352Khz flac files using the most recent firmware, so it is by no means not fast enough. If it wasn't fast enough its cpu and/or memory usage would be sitting at or over 100% usage.
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Hi
I am on Windows and use WinSCP to connect to BDP, login as root
ReplayGain works as it is supposed to, of course if such info exists in the files; for adding ReplayGain to the .flac files I use Foobar
For me is critical for headphone listening, when I listen to several albumsor on playlist; a jump of 9db between an old mastering and new mastering is quite unpleasant
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123864)
Manic Moose now creates a samba share called "user" that takes you to /mnt/img now
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Manic Moose now creates a samba share called "user" that takes you to /mnt/img now
Great, played around with the /user already, just didn't realize it was an exact copy. So much better indeed, no more poking around in the system files, but just an easily available folder.
Thanks Chris, wonderful solution!
Marius
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I usually keep SAMBA off, but it is great addition, makes this easier
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maybe try this: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=135636.0
i'm going to,if only for fun. And because a very soft hiss, reminiscent of the old mistuned fm band, is emanating from my Esl's now and then. Intensifying while playing, calming down again after the bdp has stopped or paused, within a few seconds.
Maybe im just hearing network traffic.... or some other electric noise, not 100% galvanically isolated. We'll see.
Cheers,
Marius
Hi Marius!
Your question is not silly at all. Let me tell you, I disconnected everything and tried each each individual component of the system with a different system just to be sure. The problem is with the BDP-1, nothing else.
I use headphones most of the time and that makes the problem that much more audible and disturbing.
I will report back when I have some news. Chris has run different tests, "poking around" as he put it, and finally told me he believes the problems lie elsewhere, not in the BDP-1. But I don't see how that could be, I've tried every kind of a drive, besides the NAS which is downstairs.
Perhaps the BDP-1 just doesn't have the firepower to counter the ever-increasing demands by it's software.
Cheers!
Antun
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The BDP-1 plays back 352Khz flac files using the most recent firmware, so it is by no means not fast enough. If it wasn't fast enough its cpu and/or memory usage would be sitting at or over 100% usage.
Hi Chris!
The CPU load hovers at around 27% but the memory is always 99%. Perhaps that's the problem.
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Did you set up scratch drive? Is an USB storage used for swap files.
I see swap in my configuration is quite used, even if I do not use album_db features
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=123908)
Other idea, maybe the internal memory on your BDP is faulty, not sure if there are LINUX commands to check for errors...
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Hi!
Yes, it could be a million reasons why. No way to know. I hope Chris can find some answers.
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Okay,
I have formatted all the drives to FAT32 even though they were FAT32. Chris says there could be disk defragmentation problem with them so I formatted them. It took the computer 30 minutes to format the drives and then another hour to copy the files from NAS. I was hopeful as it was something I hadn't tried before but undortunately, it didn't help. The interruptions are still there - a couple of them during each song. Severe distortion when I played it for the first time today made me turn the amplifier all the way down.
Cheers,
Antun
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Hi!
Okay, here's the news.
The dealer kindly sent me a BDP-2 to do a demo on and compare it to the BDP-1.
I have found what is troubling the BDP-1 as I will explain:
It's the network connection. BDP-1 plays the 192/176.4k tracks only when it is NOT connected to the network. I have verified this a number of times, each session followed by a restart of the machine. When the machine is connected to the network, it skips music. When it is not connected, it plays fine.
My guess is that network connection demands more resources the BDP-1 with the latest firmware cannot handle reliably. Unnecessary things like album art and all sorts of things I neither need or want have inhibited the basic function of BDP-1 - music playback.
I have not decided on the BDP-2 upgrade yet. If I trade in the BDP-1, the extra premium for the BDP-2 is 2000 $US. The BDP-2 comes with the new BUC board but I have done extensive comaprisons with our own studio masters and I don't hear the slightest difference between the two players, even with Bryston's BDA-2/BHA-1 and Sennheiser HD800 combination. So I have strong objections to this upgrade when all it comes down to is "faster CPU and more RAM".
So what can be done to remedy the network connection burden? Disconnect from network and use the BDP-1 without the graphical user interface?
Cheers!
Antun
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Hi!
Okay, here's the news.
The dealer kindly sent me a BDP-2 to do a demo on and compare it to the BDP-1.
I have found what is troubling the BDP-1 as I will explain:
It's the network connection. BDP-1 plays the 192/176.4k tracks only when it is NOT connected to the network. I have verified this a number of times, each session followed by a restart of the machine. When the machine is connected to the network, it skips music. When it is not connected, it plays fine.
My guess is that network connection demands more resources the BDP-1 with the latest firmware cannot handle reliably. Unnecessary things like album art and all sorts of things I neither need or want have inhibited the basic function of BDP-1 - music playback.
I have not decided on the BDP-2 upgrade yet. If I trade in the BDP-1, the extra premium for the BDP-2 is 2000 $US. The BDP-2 comes with the new BUC board but I have done extensive comaprisons with our own studio masters and I don't hear the slightest difference between the two players, even with Bryston's BDA-2/BHA-1 and Sennheiser HD800 combination. So I have strong objections to this upgrade when all it comes down to is "faster CPU and more RAM".
So what can be done to remedy the network connection burden? Disconnect from network and use the BDP-1 without the graphical user interface?
Cheers!
Antun
FWIW, I routinely play 192 and 176.4 tracks on a BDP-1 with no glitches or artifacts, whatsoever. In fact, that's one of the things that really impresses me about this box: how artifact-free it is during playback with flawless, gapless playback.
I use both MPaD and Manic Moose (2.17 BETA) and my music is loaded on an external, USB bus-powered SSD drive (PNY 480 GB).
Something else is going on here...
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FWIW, I routinely play 192 and 176.4 tracks on a BDP-1 with no glitches or artifacts, whatsoever. In fact, that's one of the things that really impresses me about this box: how artifact-free it is during playback with flawless, gapless playback.
I use both MPaD and Manic Moose (2.17 BETA) and my music is loaded on an external, USB bus-powered SSD drive (PNY 480 GB).
Something else is going on here...
Hi!
I have a few quesrtions for you:
1. what is the CPU usage and memory usage when playing 192k files?
2. do you mean to say your external SSD drive is powered directly by the BDP-1's USB port?
3. To what file format is your SSD formatted - NTFS, FAT32 or something else?
4. is the 2.17 BETA the newest software release or is it an older type?
Cheers!
Antun
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If it's a network connection issues it might be the BDP-1 not liking your router or cable modem. How is it connected? Wireless connection?
I had an issue with my imac not liking my wifi router. The manufacturer told me to change some settings and now it is much better.
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If it's a network connection issues it might be the BDP-1 not liking your router or cable modem. How is it connected? Wireless connection?
I had an issue with my imac not liking my wifi router. The manufacturer told me to change some settings and now it is much better.
Hi!
The BDP-1 is connected to a T-COM router with a LAN cable, about 10m in length. I don't think it should be a problem. Keep in mind I never play music through the network but directly off USB thumbdrives plugged into the BDP-1.
Antun
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HI Antun
I will leave the technical question to Chris but if it is a network issue I am afraid there is nothing we can do about that and maybe the circuit board in the BDP-2 just has an advantage when it comes to network connectivity?? - Chris should know.
thanks
james
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Hi!
Just to post it here too,
I doubt it's the network because I don't use network streaming. Instead, I play the music from thumbrdives plugged directly into the player.
I also have a NAS drive connected to the same router/switch and movies and music play fine from it on our home cinema system so I don't think it has to do with network bandwidth problem, especially because the BDP-1 is never used in this manner and network connection serves only as a means of control via computer or over wireless.
Cheers!
Antun
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Hi!
Just to post it here too,
I doubt it's the network because I don't use network streaming. Instead, I play the music from thumbrdives plugged directly into the player.
I also have a NAS drive connected to the same router/switch and movies and music play fine from it on our home cinema system so I don't think it has to do with network bandwidth problem, especially because the BDP-1 is never used in this manner and network connection serves only as a means of control via computer or over wireless.
The BDP-1 has a 10/100Mbps network capability while BDP-2 has a 1Gbps capability which can't account for any difference since our internet connection cannot exceed or even approach the bandwidth limit of the BDP-1.
Cheers!
Antun
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It may be worth trying a regular router rather than the supplied router from your network provider you mentioned just to see if the issue goes away - I know you will not have connection to the internet but it would be a good test.
I can send you the ManCave router setup if you want to give it a try - just email me - jamestanner@bryston.com
james
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Hi Antun
Sent you the instructions for ManCave router option.
james
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Hi!
I have a few quesrtions for you:
1. what is the CPU usage and memory usage when playing 192k files?
2. do you mean to say your external SSD drive is powered directly by the BDP-1's USB port?
3. To what file format is your SSD formatted - NTFS, FAT32 or something else?
4. is the 2.17 BETA the newest software release or is it an older type?
Cheers!
Antun
1. Roughly 50% for 192k ALAC files (the same file re-encoded as an AIFF file plays back at 3-4% CPU; FLAC is about 30%) - I am thinking seriously about re-encoding everything as AIFF.
Also, the only services I have running is MPD, USB Mount and SMB (sharing).
2. My SSD drive is in an enclosure with USB 3.0 connector and plugged into the lower-back USB 2.0 port. No external power seems to be needed.
The Manic Moose bench test reports: 15 MB/s for the SSD drive and 12 MB/s for the thumb drive.
3. FAT32 formatted as such using Mac OS Diskutil.
4. 2.17, newest version, datyed 2015-07-15.
Hope that helps.
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1. Roughly 50% for 192k ALAC files (the same file re-encoded as an AIFF file plays back at 3-4% CPU; FLAC is about 30%) - I am thinking seriously about re-encoding everything as AIFF.
Also, the only services I have running is MPD, USB Mount and SMB (sharing).
2. My SSD drive is in an enclosure with USB 3.0 connector and plugged into the lower-back USB 2.0 port. No external power seems to be needed.
The Manic Moose bench test reports: 15 MB/s for the SSD drive and 12 MB/s for the thumb drive.
3. FAT32 formatted as such using Mac OS Diskutil.
4. 2.17, newest version, datyed 2015-07-15.
Hope that helps.
Hi Krutsch!
Thank you very much!
Chris is on it now so I'm waiting to see what he will say but this is very useful indeed!
I will report back.
Thanks!
Antun
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1. Roughly 50% for 192k ALAC files (the same file re-encoded as an AIFF file plays back at 3-4% CPU; FLAC is about 30%) - I am thinking seriously about re-encoding everything as AIFF.
Also, the only services I have running is MPD, USB Mount and SMB (sharing).
2. My SSD drive is in an enclosure with USB 3.0 connector and plugged into the lower-back USB 2.0 port. No external power seems to be needed.
The Manic Moose bench test reports: 15 MB/s for the SSD drive and 12 MB/s for the thumb drive.
3. FAT32 formatted as such using Mac OS Diskutil.
4. 2.17, newest version, datyed 2015-07-15.
Hope that helps.
Hi Krutsch!
Can you check something for me please?
1. play some 24/192 songs
2. go to the bottom of the screen where there is a line of icons named System, Disk information, Audio devices etc.
3. click on these icons in rapid succession focusing on the first three icons on the left
4. continue clicking on these icons for approximately 10 seconds
5. at this point my BDP-1 starts stuttering
6. if your BDP-1 starts stuttering, go to "Services" and monitor the CPU load
7. At this point my BDP-1 continues to stutter till you pause or stop playback for a couple of seconds
This is not at all complicate so I hope you can do it. That would tell us how much resources is spent elsewhere instead of playback and would at least give me some piece of mind.
Thanks!
Antun
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Hi Daneel
I had similar issue as you describe, with processor overloading after a while of playing high rez files and also checking on interface different paramenters
After some communication with Chris I managed to put BDP in service mode and he fixed something, I don't know exactly what. Since then I upgraded to latest beta firmware (2.17) and this did not happened anymore in normal usage - again, I did not performed stress test as you describe
To have a better view on the CPU utilization you can connect via putty and launch command top. This will show you what processes are called during working of BDP and which one are remaining with high CPU usage
In my case, before Chris intervention, processor usage was growing constantly when playing high resolution files, up to 70-80%. When track was changed in the playback, there was a call to a process probably to change cover art or something that was using 20% processor and then BDP1 was producing distorsions
Now, processor stays 25% for normal playback and may go to 35% in case of high rez files
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Hi Daneel
I had similar issue as you describe, with processor overloading after a while of playing high rez files and also checking on interface different paramenters
After some communication with Chris I managed to put BDP in service mode and he fixed something, I don't know exactly what. Since then I upgraded to latest beta firmware (2.17) and this did not happened anymore in normal usage - again, I did not performed stress test as you describe
To have a better view on the CPU utilization you can connect via putty and launch command top. This will show you what processes are called during working of BDP and which one are remaining with high CPU usage
In my case, before Chris intervention, processor usage was growing constantly when playing high resolution files, up to 70-80%. When track was changed in the playback, there was a call to a process probably to change cover art or something that was using 20% processor and then BDP1 was producing distorsions
Now, processor stays 25% for normal playback and may go to 35% in case of high rez files
Hi ttsto!
So the stuttering and distortion never happens during normal playback on your BDP-1?
With mine it does even if I don't do anything as long as the player is connected to the network. When I disconnect the cable, it plays fine.
Cheers!
Antun
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No, in my case problems appeared only after playing at least 3-4 hours of high rez files and distosions occured only at the begining of track.
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HI Anton,
Although i don't have your issues, and never experience them while playing hi-res, i do recall that when i first started loading the BDP1 with songs while playing, the stuttering and other audio issues started. Sometimes sounding like being just off of the FM band, really squeeky.
Ive learned to live with the limitations of the BDP, and always have as little services enabled as necessary. Never play while transferring files to it.
That being said, your description sounds more like an issue of unknown traffic to and from the BDP1 rather than a general network issue. Or even en BDP issue.
Are you sure no other machine is trying to read/write from/to your BDP when connected? Ttsto's suggestion of Top sounds sensible, you might not know all that is going on....
No Nas reading it? no utility to keep them drives clean (I've Blueharvest running all the time to clear out the Mac files)? Maybe antivirus should be disabled on the network drive the BDP delivers? Maybe some DLNA polling going on?
Just some little wanderings, please keep us informed. It shouldn't be your BDP1, other than individual errors that ought to be solvable. No reason the upgrade, at least not for this.
Good luck!
Marius
Hi ttsto!
So the stuttering and distortion never happens during normal playback on your BDP-1?
With mine it does even if I don't do anything as long as the player is connected to the network. When I disconnect the cable, it plays fine.
Cheers!
Antun
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Maybe its just me, but I think this thread's title is unfair. Granted, I understand the frustration in trying to diagnose a problem that is rendering the unit not operational. But there appears to be a good chance this may ultimately be an issue with the setup/network etc. Or maybe with the unit itself. Who knows. The title, however suggests that more and more problems are cropping up in the BDP-1, implying a poor design or at very least a lemon. I appreciate the forum's openness, and the opportunity to educate. But it seems so many threads get started with an operational challenge, which after a quick diagnostic process with customer service, often ends up with a "never mind, I had this gizmo or that setup wrong". Maybe bird-dogging the problem for a while first with CS before starting a thread would make more sense.
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Maybe its just me, but I think this thread's title is unfair. Granted, I understand the frustration in trying to diagnose a problem that is rendering the unit not operational. But there appears to be a good chance this may ultimately be an issue with the setup/network etc. Or maybe with the unit itself. Who knows. The title, however suggests that more and more problems are cropping up in the BDP-1, implying a poor design or at very least a lemon. I appreciate the forum's openness, and the opportunity to educate. But it seems so many threads get started with an operational challenge, which after a quick diagnostic process with customer service, often ends up with a "never mind, I had this gizmo or that setup wrong"
+1
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No, in my case problems appeared only after playing at least 3-4 hours of high rez files and distosions occured only at the begining of track.
Hi!
Oh, I see. So it seemed like BDP-1 would reach a certain pojnt where it could no longer play the files reliably. It's not the case here. I wish it was, then we'd have a good starting point!
Thanks!
Antun
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HI Anton,
Although i don't have your issues, and never experience them while playing hi-res, i do recall that when i first started loading the BDP1 with songs while playing, the stuttering and other audio issues started. Sometimes sounding like being just off of the FM band, really squeeky.
Ive learned to live with the limitations of the BDP, and always have as little services enabled as necessary. Never play while transferring files to it.
That being said, your description sounds more like an issue of unknown traffic to and from the BDP1 rather than a general network issue. Or even en BDP issue.
Are you sure no other machine is trying to read/write from/to your BDP when connected? Ttsto's suggestion of Top sounds sensible, you might not know all that is going on....
No Nas reading it? no utility to keep them drives clean (I've Blueharvest running all the time to clear out the Mac files)? Maybe antivirus should be disabled on the network drive the BDP delivers? Maybe some DLNA polling going on?
Just some little wanderings, please keep us informed. It shouldn't be your BDP1, other than individual errors that ought to be solvable. No reason the upgrade, at least not for this.
Good luck!
Marius
Hi Marius!
This is exactly what Chris asked me. He wanted to know if there was an ad blocker in place or a firewall of some sort. We also tried both Chrome and Firefox browsers. His idea is that the browser and BDP-1 don't communicate well and it causes BDP-1 to misbehave.
But to your question - apart from the thumbdrives plugged into the BDP-1, there are no files being exhanged between it and the computer or the NAS.
I don't know what Chris did yesterday. I've sent him an email so I will be sure to report back.
Thank you!
Antun
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I may have missed this, but can you give some details on your network setup (including makes/models)?
- Garrett
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+1
+1
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Maybe its just me, but I think this thread's title is unfair. Granted, I understand the frustration in trying to diagnose a problem that is rendering the unit not operational. But there appears to be a good chance this may ultimately be an issue with the setup/network etc. Or maybe with the unit itself. Who knows. The title, however suggests that more and more problems are cropping up in the BDP-1, implying a poor design or at very least a lemon. I appreciate the forum's openness, and the opportunity to educate. But it seems so many threads get started with an operational challenge, which after a quick diagnostic process with customer service, often ends up with a "never mind, I had this gizmo or that setup wrong". Maybe bird-dogging the problem for a while first with CS before starting a thread would make more sense.
+1 to this one above! :oops: :oops:
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I may have missed this, but can you give some details on your network setup (including makes/models)?
- Garrett
Hi Garret!
I have written down all the designations I could find on the devices.
The router is downstairs (Technicolor TG788ivn V2) and connected to a switch (TP-LINK TL-SG1005D). There is a NAS drive (D-LINK DNS320) connected to this switch and another LAN cable running from this switch to another switch located upstairs. This switch is TP-LINK also and there is a PC connected to it as well as the BDP-1. There's nothing else.
The NAS is used only for storage, not streaming. I copy the music from it to a thumbdrive, plug the thumbdrive into the BDP-1 and play the music like that. So I really use the network only to control the BDP-1. I don't even use internet radio.
The router is a bit of a hassle since it says "VIP" on the front meaning it belongs to the internet provider and it's setting menus are locked and accessible only by them. Sadly, this appears to be common practice in these spaces. I cannot use a different router because neither internet nor TV will work.
Thanks!
Antun
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As for the title of this threat, it is fully justified. This has been going on for months. Mr. Tanner kindly suggested I should forfeit the BDP-2 upgrade if it doesn't bring audible improvements and I highly appreciate his honesty but he himself didn't have any objections to this thread so I don't know why some of you do. We are all grown up. There are no lines to read in-between or hidden meaning in the title, it describes the situation quite accurately.
Cheers!
Antun
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As for the title of this threat, it is fully justified. This has been going on for months. Mr. Tanner kindly suggested I should forfeit the BDP-2 upgrade if it doesn't bring audible improvements and I highly appreciate his honesty but he himself didn't have any objections to this thread so I don't know why some of you do. We are all grown up. There are no lines to read in-between or hidden meaning in the title, it describes the situation quite accurately.
Cheers!
Antun
+1 :thumb:
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Have you taken the unit to someone's house to try on a different network? If no, I would try that. That should eliminate anything related to your network configuration.
If yes I think it's time to send it back to the factory for repair.
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Hi Krutsch!
Can you check something for me please?
1. play some 24/192 songs
2. go to the bottom of the screen where there is a line of icons named System, Disk information, Audio devices etc.
3. click on these icons in rapid succession focusing on the first three icons on the left
4. continue clicking on these icons for approximately 10 seconds
5. at this point my BDP-1 starts stuttering
6. if your BDP-1 starts stuttering, go to "Services" and monitor the CPU load
7. At this point my BDP-1 continues to stutter till you pause or stop playback for a couple of seconds
This is not at all complicate so I hope you can do it. That would tell us how much resources is spent elsewhere instead of playback and would at least give me some piece of mind.
Thanks!
Antun
I'm not going to bother with that; the BDP-1 is a highly optimized and tuned system - it sounds unbelievable, as a result. If you start mashing buttons, I'm sure you can get node and php (the processes that render the Manic Moose UI) to spike, which will may starve mpd during 192k playback.
So what?
Try this: upload your music, navigate to what you want to play, start playback and then leave it alone. That's the use case for which the BDP-1 was designed. If you can't do that, then open a support ticket with Bryston and see what's wrong with your device.
With my BDP-1, I can play 192k tracks all night long without missing a beat - from either USB thumb drives or an attached HDD or SSD (I've tried both, but went with SSD because I can hear the physical HDD spinning from my desk).
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Try this: upload your music, navigate to what you want to play, start playback and then leave it alone. That's the use case for which the BDP-1 was designed. If you can't do that, then open a support ticket with Bryston and see what's wrong with your device.
This is precisely what I have been doing. I bought the machine for the sole purpose of playing high-res music using the player as a stand-alone device. No network and silly tablets that make you read your emails before anything else. But plug & play it isn't.
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The router is downstairs (Technicolor TG788ivn V2) and connected to a switch (TP-LINK TL-SG1005D). There is a NAS drive (D-LINK DNS320) connected to this switch and another LAN cable running from this switch to another switch located upstairs. This switch is TP-LINK also and there is a PC connected to it as well as the BDP-1. There's nothing else.
One thing you could try is take the PC out of this last switch. Somehow I read 'electric distortion' in your adventure. The pc could cause this. If not, that's one good thing to know...
Marius
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This is precisely what I have been doing. I bought the machine for the sole purpose of playing high-res music using the player as a stand-alone device. No network and silly tablets that make you read your emails before anything else. But plug & play it isn't.
Have you tried disconnecting the network (physically remove the RJ-45 plug) and playing 192k tracks via the front panel controls? That would be telling.
If you are still having problems, then you need to let Chris into the device via a support ID. If not, then start removing stuff from your network until you find the offending device.
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Have you tried disconnecting the network (physically remove the RJ-45 plug) and playing 192k tracks via the front panel controls? That would be telling.
If you are still having problems, then you need to let Chris into the device via a support ID. If not, then start removing stuff from your network until you find the offending device.
I thought I mentioned several times Chris is looking into it and has been doing so for a while. Besides, how else would I have found the network was causing it if I hadn't diconnected it? I thought this was obvious.
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One thing you could try is take the PC out of this last switch. Somehow I read 'electric distortion' in your adventure. The pc could cause this. If not, that's one good thing to know...
Marius
Hi Marius!
I'll connect it directly to the router downstairs and see if that makes any difference and let you know.
Thanks!
Antun
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I thought I mentioned several times Chris is looking into it and has been doing so for a while. Besides, how else would I have found the network was causing it if I hadn't diconnected it? I thought this was obvious.
Sorry... was just trying to help. I'll stop doing that.
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Come on guys, can't we all just get along.... :thumb: :D
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Network stuff can be a tricky thing, routers in particular. There's tons more going on there than most people realize. It's not like electricity where it works or not. There's tons of settings and options that can impact performance, and the "automatic" modes aren't all that effective.
In the cases where people are having network related issues, I'd start by swapping out data ports. Occasionally, a single port on a switch or router can go bad.
Next, swap out ethernet cables. While they don't usually go bad, it can happen. The results could be simply no data, or it could be intermittent data loss, which is much more difficult to diagnose.
If those don't fix the problem, you might try updating router firmware, factory resetting the router, or even changing your router. As an example, not every router is compatible with Apple's Time Capsule or Microsoft's X-Box.
At the end of the day, if you send your BDP into Bryston and they can't duplicate the problem, then the problem isn't likely with the BDP.
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Network stuff can be a tricky thing, routers in particular. There's tons more going on there than most people realize. It's not like electricity where it works or not. There's tons of settings and options that can impact performance, and the "automatic" modes aren't all that effective.
In the cases where people are having network related issues, I'd start by swapping out data ports. Occasionally, a single port on a switch or router can go bad.
Next, swap out ethernet cables. While they don't usually go bad, it can happen. The results could be simply no data, or it could be intermittent data loss, which is much more difficult to diagnose.
If those don't fix the problem, you might try updating router firmware, factory resetting the router, or even changing your router. As an example, not every router is compatible with Apple's Time Capsule or Microsoft's X-Box.
At the end of the day, if you send your BDP into Bryston and they can't duplicate the problem, then the problem isn't likely with the BDP.
Hi Grit!
I swapped the ports and changed the cables like you suggested.
There's nothing I can do about the router though. It's firmware is unaccesslible by anyone but the internet provider as is always the case here. You can't even have a fixed IP address if you don't pay extra.
But the BDP-2 the dealer sent me for comparison has none of these problems. None. So it's strange.
Cheers!
Antun
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I think the BDP-1 is a fantastic product, especially for a first model.
I have had no major problems with it, some minor problems includes - on very early firmware versions - sometimes it was hard to update etc, and sometimes the display lags behind the song being played, some database problems that required formatting the drives and reloading the music.
But all in all, for a company that is relatively small as Bryston I think that they have done a fantastic job and always seem to want to upgrade and take suggestions from users.
When diagnosing computer problems the best solution is to change one thing at a time and try to eliminate things as you go. I haven't read the whole thread so this has probably all been suggested but.
Try to eliminate any other problems that may arise:
* disconnect the internet or any other machines on the network
*make sure your router/modem firmware is up to date - you mentioned you were not able to? is it locked to the provider? even they normally make available new updates via their websites
*does your router or other network equipment have known problems? I once set up a VOIP system for someone where the components had to be powered up in a special sequence or they simply wouldn't work.
*make sure that speed and duplex/simplex settings are on automatic or match on all devices on the network
*make sure there are no other conflicts on the network, i.e. conflicting IP address
*disconnect everything and just use your computer directly into the BDP
*make sure that you are using the correct type of ethernet cable - some devices cannot automatically sense a crossover cable.
there are a lot of things to try, maybe it is just bad luck.
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Hi!
Okay, here's the news.
The dealer kindly sent me a BDP-2 to do a demo on and compare it to the BDP-1.
I have found what is troubling the BDP-1 as I will explain:
It's the network connection. BDP-1 plays the 192/176.4k tracks only when it is NOT connected to the network. I have verified this a number of times, each session followed by a restart of the machine. When the machine is connected to the network, it skips music. When it is not connected, it plays fine.
My guess is that network connection demands more resources the BDP-1 with the latest firmware cannot handle reliably. Unnecessary things like album art and all sorts of things I neither need or want have inhibited the basic function of BDP-1 - music playback.
I have not decided on the BDP-2 upgrade yet. If I trade in the BDP-1, the extra premium for the BDP-2 is 2000 $US. The BDP-2 comes with the new BUC board but I have done extensive comaprisons with our own studio masters and I don't hear the slightest difference between the two players, even with Bryston's BDA-2/BHA-1 and Sennheiser HD800 combination. So I have strong objections to this upgrade when all it comes down to is "faster CPU and more RAM".
So what can be done to remedy the network connection burden? Disconnect from network and use the BDP-1 without the graphical user interface?
Cheers!
Antun
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I got the same problems Antun had recently. There had been no problem at all playing 24/192 files until last month. Don't know what happened. I follow Antun's advice. After disconnecting network, the files can play smoothly as before. But I lose all the convenience of jumping from one album to another.