AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => All Solid State => Topic started by: ddark65 on 27 Mar 2017, 04:10 am

Title: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 27 Mar 2017, 04:10 am
I'm thinking of picking up a new Pass Labs 250.8
anyone have a .8 ?  Any feedback would be appreciated
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: DTB300 on 27 Mar 2017, 02:43 pm
Friend went from a CJ Premier 350 to a 150.8 and absolutely loves the change/improvement across the board lows to highs.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 28 Mar 2017, 01:25 am
I'm looking to power a pair of Joseph Audio
Pearl 3's  either 150.8 or 250.8 still trying to
decide
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: JakeJ on 28 Mar 2017, 04:12 am
Based on the efficiency rating I would opt for the X250.8 at a minimum.  Perhaps even an X350.8.

I am a proud owner of a Pass Labs X350.5 fed by an XP-20 preamp from various sources including a Mac Mini or CEC TL-51X transport > Metrum HEX DAC, occasionally NPR via FM airwaves (I have a harem of tuners but am currently listening to a Sansui TU-717).  Unfortunately I don't have a phono preamp at this time to use my SOTA Sapphire table outfitted with an SME M-2 9 arm and Dynavector 17D3 cartridge but I'll correct that after I move.

Just one audiophool's .02.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 28 Mar 2017, 04:21 am
I'm using a Audio Research Ref 6
Totaldac Twelve , Antipodes DX
 Pearl 3's

I was testing a pair of Nord monoblocks using
The sparko op amps and was really surprised
on the sound quality. The Pass Labs gear is up there
in price just want to make sure it's a good choice for
me
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: JakeJ on 28 Mar 2017, 11:55 am
Very nice.  I am not familiar with the Pearls but they look beautiful and quite competent.  I am listening to PMC EB1i's and the Pass is an excellent match.

Tubes feeding SS is a combo I personally have had good sound from.

If you are buying from a dealer you might ask to have an in home trial.  Even if only for a few days.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 8 Apr 2017, 02:56 am

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160630)


I got the amp tonight letting it warm up to give it
a listen , sure is heavy had to lug in downstairs:)

Excuse the mess
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 8 Apr 2017, 04:55 am
Congrats on the amp.  I own an X250 and am looking to upgrade to a 250.5.  These amps sound their best after 30 to 60 minutes. 

Enjoy!
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: JakeJ on 10 Apr 2017, 12:54 am
Congrats, ddark65!  Looking forward to your impressions.

Personally I feel it takes a good 48 hours to fully stabilize and if your amp is brand new it will take further time to run in all the components.  Be patient and you will be rewarded.

And you will want to leave it on all the time so it's always ready.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 10 Apr 2017, 03:57 am
Congrats, ddark65!  Looking forward to your impressions.

Personally I feel it takes a good 48 hours to fully stabilize and if your amp is brand new it will take further time to run in all the components.  Be patient and you will be rewarded.

And you will want to leave it on all the time so it's always ready.

I would not recommend leaving it on all the time as it uses well over 200 watts when idling.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 10 Apr 2017, 10:42 am
I was wondering what's best , standby seems like the
way to go over leaving it on not like class D .

I slapped together a stand with wheels lifting this
amp is a bit hard on my old back

So far I'm pretty happy with the sound , I'm going
to give it some time then try my tube amps again to
compare . Also want to compare a Pass 30 Preamp
against the AR REF 6

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160728)
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: JakeJ on 10 Apr 2017, 12:20 pm
I would not recommend leaving it on all the time as it uses well over 200 watts when idling.

Each to thier own.  I always leave SS gear on 24/7 so it sounds best the moment I start listening.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 10 Apr 2017, 03:50 pm
The manual says that the 250.8 uses 450 watts at idle.  That is a lot of power and you will see it on you electric bill.  That is twice of what my X250 uses.  When the amp is off, it is in standby mode.  The difference between the sound at start up compared to 30 to 60 minutes later is subtle but noticeable.  You just have this sense that the sound is better.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 10 Apr 2017, 04:19 pm
In standby it uses 1/4 of a watt , if I was to leave it on at 450 watts 24/7
that would really add up quick . I'd rather use the trigger and leave in standby
mode .
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Freo-1 on 10 Apr 2017, 04:37 pm
I would concur with leaving it in standby when not in use.  Heat is always the enemy of electronic equipment.


Congrats on your new amp!  Always have been a big fan of Papa Pass and his gear.  I've had a lot of his amps/preamps over the years, and always enjoyed them.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: srb on 10 Apr 2017, 05:35 pm
I would concur with leaving it in standby when not in use.  Heat is always the enemy of electronic equipment.

Not to mention that the conspicuous consumption of an extra 7.2kW per day should be viewed as gluttonous and wasteful.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 10 Apr 2017, 06:33 pm
420 W   10.8 kw per day here if I let idle @ 11.98¢/kWh
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: srb on 10 Apr 2017, 06:48 pm
420 W   10.8 kw per day here if I let idle @ 11.98¢/kWh

The 7.2kW calculation was for the 16 hours extra idling time beyond 8 hours estimated actual use.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 10 Apr 2017, 11:53 pm
Gotcha , either way it adds up
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 11 Apr 2017, 02:44 am
Put it in standby after the 5 day break-in (constantly on) period. From then on, it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes for the circuit to thermally stabilize and sound its best. That's what the standby function is for. It keeps part of the circuit "warm" and ready to go. Just plan ahead and turn it on 30-60 minutes before serious listening. Pretty simple. If you ever turn the main power switch off (when you leave for vacation or whatever) it may take longer to warm everything back up, but an hour or two should do it. YMMV
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 11 Apr 2017, 03:25 pm
The Pass Labs has 2 separate PSU units the one for standby just keeps the standby circuit powered
it keeps nothing warm
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 12 Apr 2017, 04:04 am
When I say "warm" I'm not meaning physically warm. Sorry for the confusion. What I mean is when the standby switch is in use, the unit is drawing a few watts of bias on the output stage. This keeps the output stage lightly idling (what I meant by "warm") and more ready to go when taken out of standby. So, going from standby to fully on should take less time for the amp to come up to optimal operating temp (and lowest distortion).
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: G Georgopoulos on 12 Apr 2017, 06:01 am
R.D. is right regardless,i have designed class-a amps and i can say it takes roughly half an hour to stabilise thermally the amp (heatsink and power transistors junctions)

cheers
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 12 Apr 2017, 12:39 pm
I spoke to Pass Labs about this , in fact I was also told there is zero
difference from using the rear switch or standby. The standby is only
powered for convenience nothing more .
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Big Red Machine on 12 Apr 2017, 01:16 pm
So how about the sound? I have considered Pass again after the .8 versions came out but did not go that route. I have owned a 350.5. There seems to be a preference for the .8 versions and I forgot why that is. I have also searched some Audiogon threads where occasionally a discussion comes up comparing Pass to Rowland and others. This 250.8 is certainly a beast and beautiful to look at.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 12 Apr 2017, 02:14 pm
I have owned many amps but the last couple years I have used a pair of tube monoblocks , The pass labs is a bit more detailed/ forward  and faster than my current tube amps not by much . Also the 250.8 drives my Pearl 3's better . I have had very limited time to really sit down and listen but hope to later this week
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Big Red Machine on 12 Apr 2017, 03:58 pm
Which tube amps?
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 12 Apr 2017, 05:03 pm
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149605.0

I have tried many amps and always kept these , they are that good
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 12 Apr 2017, 06:19 pm
So how about the sound? I have considered Pass again after the .8 versions came out but did not go that route. I have owned a 350.5. There seems to be a preference for the .8 versions and I forgot why that is. I have also searched some Audiogon threads where occasionally a discussion comes up comparing Pass to Rowland and others. This 250.8 is certainly a beast and beautiful to look at.

There are some people who prefer the 0.5 series over the 0.8 series.  I have read that they feel that the 0.5 has more weight or body to the music while the 0.8 has more air and transparency and a lighter feel.  I only have an original X250  to go by. It is a great amp but could use a bit more transparency.   I hope to upgrade to an X250.5 in the next year.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 13 Apr 2017, 01:02 am
I spoke to Pass Labs about this , in fact I was also told there is zero
difference from using the rear switch or standby. The standby is only
powered for convenience nothing more .

Interesting. This must be a functional difference between the X and XA series (the latter I'm much more familiar with). I was making an assumption that they were the same. And again, I've assumed wrong. :oops: Probably because the XA series are biased more deeply into class A (and take more time/effort to thermally stabilize), they benefit more when starting-up from "idle" versus cold start.....so the standby function provides this benefit.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 13 Apr 2017, 01:16 am
There are some people who prefer the 0.5 series over the 0.8 series.  I have read that they feel that the 0.5 has more weight or body to the music while the 0.8 has more air and transparency and a lighter feel.  I only have an original X250  to go by. It is a great amp but could use a bit more transparency.   I hope to upgrade to an X250.5 in the next year.

That was not my experience when comparing the XA30.5 to the XA30.8. The XA30.8 was not only more pure sounding, surely benefitting from Nelson's learnings from First Watt, it also had MUCH MUCH more weight, volume, and bass. When I got the XA30.8, this is the first thing that hit me as a major difference / upgrade. I didn't expect this at all. Something else that struck me (going back to my use of the word "pure") was that the amp sounded less like an amp, if that makes any sense. I can definitely understand people preferring one vs the other. They're both wonderful. But in MY experience, no question, the .8 series is the superior music communicator.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 13 Apr 2017, 01:57 am
The X250.8 is my first Pass Lab amp , I'm second guessing
my decision if maybe a XA200.8 might of been better .
I want to stay with a stereo amp but wondering the difference
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Big Red Machine on 13 Apr 2017, 10:47 am
I'm with you on that. I personally would lean toward the XA series to get Class A playback. I liked the 350.5 I had but it was a boat anchor and in the end did not impress me. Hence the .8 and XA series come along and now we're talking.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 13 Apr 2017, 11:58 am
http://enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1015/Pass_Labs_X250_8_Stereo_Amplifier_Review.htm

Interesting read   


From the time I spent with my 250.8 it might just be a keeper
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 14 Apr 2017, 04:37 am
The 250 model in the Pass line sits in sort of a sweet spot. It has a pretty good amount of Class A power (though not as deeply biased as the XA series) and plenty of class AB power for most of today's speaker systems (which usually include multiple drivers and crossovers). The XA series is sort of more niche. One has to more carefully consider their speakers, room, and listening preferences as going up the line (for more class A watts) is exponentially more expensive. The X series takes more of a Swiss Army knife approach. Yes, you're giving up some of that Class A magic (compared to the XA line), but you're gaining versatility. It's horses for courses.....unless you can afford the top of the line XA series or even the XS. $$$$$$$$$$$
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 14 Apr 2017, 12:30 pm
I have been through allot of gear over the years and I think
I am pretty satisfied with the pieces I ended up keeping . Now
hopefully I can just fine tune things and sit back and enjoy . I was
thinking the same thing as you on the amps , plus I listened all day
yesterday and really couldn't hear anything neg with my system .

AR Ref 6
Pass Labs 250.8
TotalDac Twelve / Antipodes DX V2
Joseph Audio Pearl 3's

The only thing I might do is demo a Passlabs 30 Preamp but from what I read
my Ref 6 is probably a better pre .
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Big Red Machine on 14 Apr 2017, 12:45 pm
I'd keep the AR unit.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 14 Apr 2017, 12:55 pm
Yeah. Keep your AR. I doubt the Pass preamp is "better," just different. You have a VERY nice setup. Fine tune it with some Herbie's stuff. Enjoy! :thumb:
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: OzarkTom on 14 Apr 2017, 05:15 pm
AR :thumb:
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 14 Apr 2017, 07:34 pm
Anyone ever had the chance to compare amps  Pass to AR
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 14 Apr 2017, 08:14 pm
Anyone ever had the chance to compare amps  Pass to AR

I haven't but just about every review I have read on the X250 series amps have said it competes well with amps in the $15K to 20K range.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 14 Apr 2017, 09:31 pm
I haven't compared, but if you're looking at AR amps, I think their tube amps are what you'd want. That's not to say their SS amps aren't good, but I think their tube amps are much more revered.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 23 Apr 2017, 12:49 pm
Well I let the 250.8 go , it just didn't do it for me . I really prefer the sound
of my tube amps . I'm going to keep looking . One thing for sure is I'm getting to old
to be lugging a 250.8 up from downstairs .

Thinking of trying a Audio Research 75 SE to pair with my
Ref 6

Anyone listen to the INNAMORATA SIGNATURE ? Suppose to have a unique sound
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: RDavidson on 23 Apr 2017, 02:28 pm
Yeah. Even in upper echelon gear, it seems that tube amps still have that last drop of "naturalness" that SS just can't quite touch. But SS has the last drop of control and extension that tubes can't quite touch. Otherwise the line between the two types have more in common (especially resolution and tonal neutrality) than not. I think it becomes more of a choice of presentation and general character (exciting vs relaxed, front row vs mid hall) as the main variables. Have fun. Try stuff out. :thumb:
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: ddark65 on 23 Apr 2017, 03:22 pm
I will either getting a AR 75SE or have the following vintage amps restored ,Sansui BA-F1
Accuphase P-300.

There just seems to be something with vintage gear like when you where a kid it just sounded good :) didn't have to spend $$$$
I got a totally restored Marantz 2330 I hooked up to my system and used my totaldac twelve and I tell you Im close to just leaving it .

The good part on vintage gear also it goes up in value not down
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Freo-1 on 23 Apr 2017, 03:30 pm
Yeah. Even in upper echelon gear, it seems that tube amps still have that last drop of "naturalness" that SS just can't quite touch. But SS has the last drop of control and extension that tubes can't quite touch. Otherwise the line between the two types have more in common (especially resolution and tonal neutrality) than not. I think it becomes more of a choice of presentation and general character (exciting vs relaxed, front row vs mid hall) as the main variables. Have fun. Try stuff out. :thumb:

And, there is the rub.  Tubes have a midrange that no SS gear can match.  Conversely, no tube amp can get control of the lower registers like a well made SS amp can.  Lots of people do seem like the warmth from tube amp bass frequencies.

Although I love the Pass Labs gear, I also wind up preferring my tube amps to just about any solid state gear. 

One thing you may want to try is the Devialet 400/440 setup.  I have to warn you ahead of time: be prepared to sell off your other electronics (preamp, DAC, phono stage).  The Devialet 400 has a synergy that has to be heard in your own listening environment with your speakers to fully appreciate.  Robert Harley from Absolute Sound compared it very favorably to his reference 200 K plus electronics.   

It sounds nothing like any other SS gear you have ever listened to before.  It has a midrange that will remind you of tube gear, and some of the best bass response you will ever hear from electronics.

Used 400's can be had for a reasonable price (compared to new).  When you look at all it provides, it's actually a pretty good buy by high end audio standards.   
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: I.Greyhound Fan on 23 Apr 2017, 04:00 pm
You may want to give a listen to BAT amps.  Totally different sound than Pass.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: mr_bill on 24 Apr 2017, 02:47 am
AR 75 is a great amp
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: spectralman on 3 Jul 2017, 04:34 am
I don't know what the specs are on your Pearls impedance-wise.  Nor do I know what your budget is, but for tube gear I always heartily endorse Atma-Sphere.  It is extremely fast, transparent, AND has great bass response: deep, well textured, and tight.  I had an all AS system a few years ago, MA-2 Mk. 2.3 monoblocks with the matching MP-1 Mk. 2 preamp.  The best pre/power amp combo I've ever owned or heard.  The amps are space heaters though, so much that I tended to not use them a whole lot in the summer months.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Audiophile58 on 3 Jul 2017, 09:52 am
Personally I find for high power ,especially if using planers,or Electrostats a good Solid State amplifier
Is much better suited. Which has High current capabilities,  where  even a very good tube amp
Cannot compete,tube amps are voltage driven much more so then Current .
Everything comes down to the Loudspeaker  being  used  and it's demands on impedance,
And efficiency there are many Vacuum tube  amplifiers that do well with speakers 88db  on up on average.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Audiophile58 on 3 Jul 2017, 10:01 am
One solid state brand overlooked mainly because of name are excellent sounding amplifiers, and preamps.
AMPZILLA monoblocks,  and Son of Ampzilla- the smaller Stereo version.
Both are Exceptional buys  and have  won several awards. James Bongiano was a Great designer - R.I.P.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Mr Peabody on 5 Jul 2017, 09:55 pm
I read the entire thread, I need a conclusion if there was one, LOL.  So which amp are you using?

If the Pearls are hard to drive I agree finding a tube amp to do it will be difficult, and if you can, expensive.  I had 100 watt monoblocks that drove Revel F52's but not adequately.  Which led me to my first Pass amp.  In CJ's defense the amps wer using EL34's.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: twitch54 on 12 Sep 2017, 08:09 pm
after a hiatus of more than 30 years I have returned to Nelson Pass, my new 260.8 mono blocks, yes I'm quite happy ...........


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168434)
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: kingdeezie on 12 Sep 2017, 08:45 pm
Twitch, those are awesome!

I have an XA 30.8 I run on my Daedalus speakers, and I love it. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: Wind Chaser on 12 Sep 2017, 09:12 pm
Personally I find for high power ,especially if using planers,or Electrostats a good Solid State amplifier
Is much better suited. Which has High current capabilities,  where  even a very good tube amp
Cannot compete,tube amps are voltage driven much more so then Current .
***Everything comes down to the Loudspeaker being used and it's demands on impedance, ***

Yes, it really comes down to that. Between a very highly regarded 8 watt SET and a lowly little TPA 3116, the latter does a much better job driving the very efficient Spatials.
Title: Re: Pass Labs 250.8
Post by: tdinut on 28 Sep 2017, 03:07 am

Beautiful!

Can you update on us on the sound of the X260.8's? Love the Studio2, I have a pair as well. I am thinking about some Pass Labs amps and the X260.8 are on the list. Thanks!!!

Joe



after a hiatus of more than 30 years I have returned to Nelson Pass, my new 260.8 mono blocks, yes I'm quite happy ...........


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=168434)