AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: targa02 on 6 Sep 2019, 08:52 pm
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I just received an email from Clayton with the tracking number. They are coming via freight, as they are quite heavy. I am very excited and hope to have them up and running by next weekend! Below is a photo of one of the baffles. The color is Lamborghini Orange.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198408)
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Very nice. I bet they will sound incredible. Keep us posted.
Shakey
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Thanks Shakeydeal! I will keep everyone updated, including pics. Now I have to figure out how I am going to get them up to the 3rd floor where my listening room is...
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hey I'll help if you need.
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I love the color!
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That IS a beautiful color!
My wife would kill me if I took this color of speakers home.
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I am very fortunate in that my wife agreed to a dedicated listening room in our new home and she LOVES the orange color!
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Targa02's pair of Spatial Lumina L2 Servos in Lamborghini Arancio Ymir with 8 layers of clear coat are leaving our factory today. $30,000 pr.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198553)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198555)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198554)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198557)
Clayton Shaw
Spatial Audio Lab
www.spatialaudio.us
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:banana piano: :drool:
Oh man, I can't wait!!
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Just beautiful.
Shakey
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Nice! That is going to be some room with those babies anchoring it.
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Now your talking WOW and WOW again. Just gorgeous. I need a bigger boat.
charles
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These look amazing. I'd love to see the finished listening space.
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I will definitely post pictures throughout the process. It’s killing me that my speakers were ready to be delivered Friday, but I am out of town till Wednesday. :(
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They are here! The L2s arrived via freight during tropical depression Imelda. I mean it was pouring when the poor truck driver pulled into the driveway. Now to un-crate and figure out how to get them up the stairs...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198897)
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They are here! The L2s arrived via freight during tropical depression Imelda. I mean it was pouring when the poor truck driver pulled into the driveway. Now to un-crate and figure out how to get them up the stairs...
Where are you located now? Your profile says "Bay Area, CA".
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Standing by for more details......... :icon_lol:
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These babies are HEAVY! Deceivingly so, based on their volume. They were crated very nicely and the wife and I were able to get them out of the crate without too much problem, but trying to carry them upstairs was simply not going to happen with just the two of us. We just moved to Houston and I don't have any bodybuilder friends here. So, I went to Task Rabbit and hired some movers to help me move these bad boys to the 3rd floor. So audio nirvana will have to wait a few more days.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198905)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198904)
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Sweet. Enjoy !!
charles
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Very cool to know these are in the Houston area. My wife and I live downtown in a 3-story house, so I know the pain of getting speakers up and down all those stairs!
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Those look great, you are going to love them.
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Music makes the world go round.
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They are here! The L2s arrived via freight during tropical depression Imelda. I mean it was pouring when the poor truck driver pulled into the driveway. Now to un-crate and figure out how to get them up the stairs...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198897)
If I am not mistaken you spent >$25,000 on this pair of speakers, you still have to carry them up to the 3rd floor, be careful about your back. After that Enjoy.
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Good luck to you and the other Houston folks riding out Imelda. Looks like another bad one.
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So, any updates on these speakers?
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Hey Slushpuppy. We love in a 3 story west of the Galleria. We are loving Houston.
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Sorry I have been delinquent in posting updates. Life has been extraordinarily busy. The speakers are upstairs and making music (posting pictures soon)! Clayton suggested not doing any serious listening until the coaxial driver has had a chance to break in. I have been playing them for about 24 hours straight. I am having an issue with my Baetis server not picking up my external drive. 🤬
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Here are some pics of the Luminas in place. I LOVE the way they look. The paint job is flawless. Although I am following Clayton's advice and giving the Luminas a chance to break in prior to critical listening, I can tell you there is a huge improvement in how open they sound now compared to one day ago. Much more open and life-like. BTW, the bass on these things is ridiculous!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199097)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199098)
BTW, how do I rotate the pics? They are right side up when I download them to my desktop.
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Nice! and you use the Pass XA-25.... like I do with my Spatials M4 TM. That is going to sound awesome. Although you have the two woofers in the L2’s actively powered and mine are full range driven, the bass control that the XA produced in the M4’s is spectacular. Likewise for its low extension. My F4 cannot do the same. My M4’s are also red, but not that same shade, yours tilt to orange. Looking forward to your impressions.
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Congrats on the speaker. Nice system and room. I'm sure you are really enjoying those.
Shakey
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Hi Manolo. I love the Pass XA 25, but I am beginning to wonder if it has as much power as I want to drive the coaxial driver. On paper it should be more than enough, but I am having to raise the volume level on my MSB DAC up quite a ways to generate dBs in the 80's.
BTW, my speakers are Lamborghini Arancio Ymir, which is orange, with 8 layers of clear coat. I think they look amazing!
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Hi Manolo. I love the Pass XA 25, but I am beginning to wonder if it has as much power as I want to drive the coaxial driver. On paper it should be more than enough, but I am having to raise the volume level on my MSB DAC up quite a ways to generate dBs in the 80's.
BTW, my speakers are Lamborghini Arancio Ymir, which is orange, with 8 layers of clear coat. I think they look amazing!
I ran into the same issue with my X3s. On paper, my Decware Torii II should have been able to drive the upper section since all bass duties are already handled. This was not the case. The Decware ran out of steam pretty early. I had to explore other options.
Shakey
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199109)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199110)
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Maybe you both need an active preamplifier in there... try one. Or in the case of the L2’s the setting on the active amp. is set too high..
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Gain was never an issue. And that's what an active preamp will bring to the table. The Torii was driven to clipping long before I ran out of output from my front end devices.
On another note, I have had active preamps up to the 7K price range. And since my system has always been very passive friendly, none of them can beat an LDR or TVC to my ears.
Shakey
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Thanks Manolo and Shakey. I will try lowering the setting on the bass amp. I am not keen on adding an active preamp. I generally feel less is more, like you do Shakey.
Also, Thank you so much Chris!!! They look so much better oriented correctly.
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Despite the high efficiency specs, I’ve always found Spatial M line to need real power to properly open up. The TM upgrade was an attempt to make them a bit friendlier to low power tubes, but they appear to still need real power/current. My guess is it’s probably phase/impedance swings.
I’d be surprised if the Lumina completely avoid these issues.
That said, these Luminas look awesome and I’m sure sound even better. They’re worthy of finding the “just right” amplification to bring out their best.
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targa02
Over the last 3 1/2 years I've tried my M3TS's and then M3TM's with a lot of different amps tubes. SS and Class D and for whatever reason they respond the best to Class D amps. A really good amp to try at a good price is the Mivera Purepower SE amp listed in the Trading Post. If it doesn't float your boat re-sell it. That is what is currently running with my M3TM's.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165623.0
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Thanks Genjamon. Actually the Luminas took a big step forward yesterday during the break in process and it sure seems to me that besides sounding way better, they also seem to be easier to drive.
Hi JackD. Thank you for your input. I have some Ncore monos that I could use on the Luminas. Have you compared the Minerva to Ncore?
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Very true - as long as you’re not worried about stress on output tubes (which you’re not, with the Pass), then it’s definitely wise to be patient through the break-in process to see what you’ve got on the other side before making any conclusions or investments.
I had DIY ncore monos a long time ago and sold them in favor of a Job 225 amp. IMO the Mivera is an entirely different league, but still will have the general clean and controlled character of class D if that makes sense.
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targa02
The NCores will work great too. I have a Mivera (1200AS), Nord (NC500), and a Nuprime ST-10. They all drive the Spatial's with ease it's just different flavors. The NCore at least with the Sparkos Op Amp is a little on the warmer side that the IcePower amp. If your speakers also have the Hypex bass amps the NCore amps should be a good match. I swap the amps out about every Quarter for a change of pace.
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My experience was with the original NC400 that I assembled myself.
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If you are considering a Mivera, consider this one.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165119.msg1758686#msg1758686
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Despite the high efficiency specs, I’ve always found Spatial M line to need real power to properly open up. The TM upgrade was an attempt to make them a bit friendlier to low power tubes, but they appear to still need real power/current. My guess is it’s probably phase/impedance swings.
I’d be surprised if the Lumina completely avoid these issues.
That said, these Luminas look awesome and I’m sure sound even better. They’re worthy of finding the “just right” amplification to bring out their best.
Couldn't agree more on the M series. With my somewhat dated M2 Turbo's, it takes solid state or digital amps at around 200 wpc (into 4 ohms) to get things moving. This if one wants to listen to all types of music at moderately loud levels. As always YMMV, but that's my take.
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I power my L2s with a 125 watt into 8ohm Ayre AX-5/20. I was originally concerned that the high(ish) powered amp would not sound as good as a low powered amp. In practice, however, they sound great together. I think the L2s work well with the extra juice despite the low power friendly spec.
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Very interesting comments from all of you! I will have to try some higher powered amplifier. In the meantime I have noticed that I am able to get more dB with lower volume setting the longer the Luminas break in.. Has anyone tried Frank van Alstine amps with Spatials?
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The SET 400 would probably be a great match with the Spatial's plus Frank has a 30 day money back guaranty.
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Couldn't agree more on the M series. With my somewhat dated M2 Turbo's, it takes solid state or digital amps at around 200 wpc (into 4 ohms) to get things moving. This if one wants to listen to all types of music at moderately loud levels. As always YMMV, but that's my take.
50 watts at 4 ohms from a cheap $20 TPA-3116 is far more competent and musically satisfying at driving the M3ts than a low powered tube amp that costs 100x more money. Despite the Spatial M series being very efficient, low powered tube amps are far from ideal with these speakers due to impedance related issues.
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I'm not sure I would agree. I have the M3TS with my 30watt VAC Avatar EL34 amp and have never had a problem. Listening to most music has me setting the volume knob about half way for vinyl and about 1/3 of the way for cd's. I do not have a huge room--perhaps therefore the sound is huge.
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Very interesting comments from all of you! I will have to try some higher powered amplifier. In the meantime I have noticed that I am able to get more dB with lower volume setting the longer the Luminas break in.. Has anyone tried Frank van Alstine amps with Spatials?
AVA Vision SET 120 amp with M3 Triode Masters. Frank reckons it's putting out around 50wpc into the 12 ohm load. More than enough power, sounds great to me.
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I'm not sure I would agree. I have the M3TS with my 30watt VAC Avatar EL34 amp and have never had a problem. Listening to most music has me setting the volume knob about half way for vinyl and about 1/3 of the way for cd's. I do not have a huge room--perhaps therefore the sound is huge.
Other than the VAC, what other amplifiers have you tried with your M3’s?
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Congrats targa02 on your Lumina speakers, they look stunning and I have no doubt they sound incredibly outstanding!
As has already been said, it's a good idea to wait until fully broken in to make any amp changes. I think I just discovered something about break in with my recently acquired X3s. The bass was unpleasant at first unless I tuned the gain down. I experimented with chair position and concluded I had been sitting in a room node causing issues so ended up with the chair 1' 10" further back, and the gain now close to max with great sounding bass. But I just now sat in the original position and the bass is clear and clean so perhaps part of what is going on is due to break in.
I can also state that my experience with Spatial speakers is they seem to come alive and maybe even need more power than their specs would indicate. With the M3 Triode Masters I had they sounded quite a bit better with the Mivera class D than with a 10 watt Dennis Had Inspire amp.
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Sorry for my absence on the thread. I have been traveling for work a lot and have not had much time to listen/play with the system. The Luminas continue to break in nicely. I think they may be most of the way there as they sound amazing. My next step is to do some room measurements and listening tests to determine speaker placement. I am still having problems finding my external drive connected to my Baetis server. So frustrating. I have read Q&A on forums and watched YouTube videos regarding finding external drives on Windows 10, but still not having any luck. Next step is to call Baetis.
BTW, we got a new thick rug yesterday, so it will be interesting to hear what changes that will make to the room acoustics.
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This is for WindChaser's question. None. I have owned my VAC amp for around 20 years. I purchased the M3s and sold my 91db Dunlavy's. I realize others have had problems with power, hence the MTM version, but I am very happy with what I have. I do use a Hsu sub, but never had a need/desire for more power. Got lucky....
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So, how are you liking them? I am loving mine https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=165532.0.
I saw in another post that you were getting Isoacoustic Gaia footers for them. What do you think? I tried the included spikes with mine but they killed the bass. I am interested in the Gaias but worry they will have a similar effect.
Thanks.
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Sorry for the long delay in my updates. New rug covering most of the hardwoods and drapes installed over the windows. The Luminas, I believe, are fully broken in at this point. I am still using my Pass Labs XA-25 as my amp. And, my concerns about the XA-25 having enough oomph to drive the Luminas were misplaced, at least in a room my size. I will try higher powered amps in the future.
Life has been extraordinarily busy, so I have not done as much listening as I would like. But, I can tell you that these speakers are very, very special. Best speakers I have ever owned - period. They are dynamic, detailed and musical. The highs are clear and non-fatiguing. The midrange is natural. And the bass, well, it is not like anything i have experienced before. These babies go down to 15 Hz! And it is tuneful, not boxy sounding.
Besides sounding great with music L2s are great at 2.0 home theater. I wonder about owning a 5.0 system with 5 L2s??!?
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Sorry for the long delay in my updates. New rug covering most of the hardwoods and drapes installed over the windows. The Luminas, I believe, are fully broken in at this point. I am still using my Pass Labs XA-25 as my amp. And, my concerns about the XA-25 having enough oomph to drive the Luminas were misplaced, at least in a room my size. I will try higher powered amps in the future.
Life has been extraordinarily busy, so I have not done as much listening as I would like. But, I can tell you that these speakers are very, very special. Best speakers I have ever owned - period. They are dynamic, detailed and musical. The highs are clear and non-fatiguing. The midrange is natural. And the bass, well, it is not like anything i have experienced before. These babies go down to 15 Hz! And it is tuneful, not boxy sounding.
Besides sounding great with music L2s are great at 2.0 home theater. I wonder about owning a 5.0 system with 5 L2s??!?
Wow! 15 hz bass extension on a open baffle speaker with that excellent inert baffle material must be truly amazing.
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Someone private messaged me about my experience so far with the Luminas. I cut pasted the body of my response for the whole group:
I really should post more on the site about my Luminas.
I am still trying to find something that they don't do well. I am sure there is a weakness, but other than their weight (they are VERY heavy) and that they are awkward to carry/move due to so much of the weight occurs in the baffle, I can't really think of a negative.
I have not tried a really low watt amp with them, but I often use my Pass Labs XA-25 (which is the tubiest sounding solid state amp I have ever owned) is only 25 watts into 8 ohms. I think the Lumina sounds better with more watts. The other amp I am using is the Esoteric A-100 which is a 45 watt amp. The speakers are more dynamic with the Esoteric, as they should. I have some nCores I should hook up just to see how they sound.
Transparency. You will hear everything you change upstream. I have had and continue to have issues with my front end. That is part of the reason I have not posted more. That and the fact that I haven't listened nearly as much as I would like to. They do not have as high of resolution as my Martin Logan Summit Xs did, but they are transparent and there is a "meat-on-the-bones" quality, especially with the Esoteric, that really leaves the Martin Logan sounding a little too polite.
Soundstage/Imaging. They do image very well, but I feel I haven't got the best out of them yet. I have heard Clayton's other speakers, in bigger rooms than mine, where the imaging was simply the best I have heard by a long shot. I am not there yet.
Bass. I need to measure my frequency response in room. The bass is amazing, plentiful and adjustable. The adjustable is probably where i need to work. The bass on these babies is absolutely to die for! And the bass from this design is simply different than that of a box speaker. Not just different, superior. Canon shots, sound and FEEL like canon shots.
Midrange. They don't offer the same purity as my Fujitsu Eclipse TD712z single driver speakers do, but the coaxial driver that Clayton uses does come very, very close. And the dynamics that the Luminas possess completely dwarf the Eclipse.
Highs. Let's be honest. I am a 60 yr old male. I don't hear anything above 8khz. So, that being said these speakers perform extremely well delivering high frequencies. There is a lot of air.
These speakers are dynamic, honest, deliver ungodly bass and are room-friendly. I have owned, Salk, Zu Audio, Emerald Physics (many models), ATC active (amazing in their own right), Martin Logan Summit X and Fujistu Eclipse, and others over the last 12 years. These are better than all the aforementioned speakers and in most cases by a considerable margin. I, for the first time in the last 12 years, am not looking for replacements! My wife is very happy and she LOVES the look of the Luminas!
Please call me or write with any questions or concerns. I don't know if you have dealt with Clayton, but he is truly great to deal with.
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Thanks for sharing. The Lumina sounds like an end game speaker for most. Enjoy!
Shakey
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The Luminas are the only speakers I see myself upgrading to from my M3 Triode Masters. The only thing holding me back is the certainty they would be replaced in the lineup as soon as I did, with something that "blows them away".
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I bet the X3 or X5 would be a helluva step up over the M3 TM. And wouldn't break the bank either.
Shakey
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I want to see a X3 design married to the dual servo-amp bass.
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I want to see a X3 design married to the dual servo-amp bass.
I had the GR Research Super V which has the same bass configuration as the Lumina. Yes it was very good, but the X3 comes a lot closer to that performance than you would think.
Shakey