[cujobob]

Odyssey

[Rocket]

Hi,

What is your budget?

I saw a belles 150a amplifier for $500US recently for sale on audiocircle.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77006.0

If you live in the US there are lots of good quality secondhand gear to consider and whilst I haven't heard a pair of songtowers I do have ht2's and Jim and Dennis make a really high quality speaker. 

If you purchase secondhand you won't lose too much money if you decide to sell the component and buy something more expensive.  There are also some really cheap dacs to consider that will get you started.

Regards

Rod

[oneinthepipe]

Wow, the other guys on audio circle are right: we're a bunch of AVA fanboys. 

That's those guys on the AVA Circle. 

Frank never disappoints.  He is always making his products better.  Many of the upgrades are free or user-installable for the cost of the parts.      When Frank offers upgrades that are free or user-installable, he is absorbing his R&D costs for the benefit of his customers.  Frank sells his Insight+ preamp for 899.00 and his UltraValve for 1699.00, while some other manufacturer is selling a mass-produced 499.00 Blu-ray player with their front panel and rear-panel labeling for 3500.00.  When I was a teenager building a modified Hafler DH-100 kit, based upon some of Frank's ideas, Frank was already a legend in audio.  Many years ago, my father was the service manager of HiFi Associates, South Florida's McIntosh dealer.  When I told my father, a couple of years ago, that I spoke to Frank Van Alstine on the telephone earlier in the day, my father replied, "The Frank Van Alstine?".  Frank's reputation is built foremost on quality sound and innovation, and he also has an excellent reputation for solid construction and good value.  I have a 25 year old AVA Omega 50 that will outlive me, I suspect.  Frank's goal isn't to sell the most electronics, Frank's goal is to sell the best electronics.  I am very happy to be an AVA fan.

I am not saying that there aren't other quality electronic components in the marketplace, and I wouldn't say that Jim is the only manufacturer of quality speakers.   I really liked the Vandy 7 speakers that I heard @ RMAF.  They were 41,000.00 more expensive than my HT2-TL, but they were excellent, I thought.  However, can anyone match the sound and construction quality of Jim's speakers for 2X the price or 3X the price?  I heard 35,000.00 plus speakers @ RMAF that paled in comparison with Jim's speakers (in a non-ideal hotel room that was exactly the same size, construction, etc., as Frank and Jim's non-ideal hotel room).  Are there any manufacturers that exceed Frank or Jim's customer service?   Jim was out in the snow cutting MDF on a table saw to finish a pair of speakers.  Know anyone else with this commitment to his customers?  Great sound, great prices, great builders. 

(I am preaching to the choir when I respond to Nuance's posts.)

[TJHUB]

Wow, the other guys on audio circle are right: we're a bunch of AVA fanboys. 

I will take a different approach and say to the OP: only use our recommendations as just that; do not buy without at least auditioning some gear first.  You may hate what we like; you just never know.  Audition first, then purchase based on your opinion, not ours.  You might be a tube guy, soild state guy, vinyl guy or digital guy...only one way to find out.

With that said, I am sure you'll love the AVA stuff (I'd own an AVA amp if I could afford it), but try to at least score an audition first.  Better safe than sorry.

Some very well respected brands are:

AVA
Cary
Modwright
McCormack
Musical Fidelity
Rotel
Bryston
Ayre
Rogue Audio
Parasound
Proceed
Arcam
ATI

The list goes on and on.  Buy based on sound and features. 

Welcome to the Salk family!!!

I've been watching this thread for a level headed person to respond.  FINALLY NUANCE!  I was afraid to post with all these AVA guys around. 

[sfox7076]

You can throw outlaw in there as well.  It's rebadged ATI stuff at less cost.  I would also throw cambridge into the mix as I like their stuff as well.  Do I like AVA stuff?  Yes, but not only their stuff.   

[Nuance]

Just see we are clear, I was not knocking AVA in any way.  Like I said, "WE are fanboys."  I haven't even heard the stuff and I already like it.   

Seriously though, my post was intended to encourage the OP to audition the things that are available to him, if nothing else to determine if he wants to go tube or SS or vinyl or digital.  The possibilities are numerous.  So if you can, listen first.  I am sure there are AVA owners somewhere near, and probably dozens of owners of the other brands I mentioned above. 

Like sfox said, you don't only have to like one brand.  Try them all, then chose the one you like best.  I don't doubt you'll like AVA, but always be smart when making a purchase of this magnitude.  You just never know. 

pipe,

I am definitely one of the "choir members" you were "preaching" to.  All that you said "goes without saying" as far as I am concerned.  And I think you know MY answers to your questions, just as I know yours; but not everyone will answer the same way as us, and we need to be open to that.

Haha, I think what I just said "goes without saying" as well.  Oh well.   

[oneinthepipe]

I was afraid to post with all these AVA guys around. 

Hahaha!

Terry, you've got the electronics, for sure. 

I wouldn't try to suggest that AVA gear is the only viable option, but AVA is a sure thing for anyone upgrading their electronics.  I can recommend AVA in the same way that I can recommend Salk speakers.  Not everyone will like AVA, and not everyone likes Salk, but Frank has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, and when he re-sells a unit that was returned, he lists the unit as a customer return, and those units are few and far between.

In-home audition with a variety of equipment is the only way to really know.

Just to show that I am a reasonable person and not inflexible in my thinking, I will throw Lexicon into the hat.   Never mind, they don't make any two-channel stuff anymore.  Oh well, I tried. 

[floresjc]

To be sure. I love my AVA gear, and I love my parasound and outlaw gear as well. Its all just about what you hear and the price point you want to buy at. AVA is the top of the line for me, I simply won't spend 5k per amp to experience those botique makers, because it won't buy my ears any more satisfaction than what I already have at 1k per amp. But thats not to say the other gear isn't good, but is it proportionally good to its cost (whether higher or lower).

If the OP found a used PS2100 and a couple Outlaw Mono blocks, I'm sure he'd be blown away. And it'd be fairly cheap to put together. Its up to him, and I second oneinthepipe, its hard to not recommend AVA as a total buying experience, from research to tunes in the ear. 

[lonewolfny42]

Bigload...

I just ordered my first set of Salk speakers which are my first set of non mass produced speakers as well.

Good....Jim Salk builds some very good speakers...they look good....they sound excellent...

I also just got a decent (by my standards) SACD player that will be my main source.

Always helpful to have a good source...which one ?

So I am sure not coming in here knowing too much about audio as you will see.

You have to start someplace....the Salk Circle can be very helpful...

I now want to get a decent amp and preamp.

Great....have you heard any ?

You'll find many different opinions...but listening will tell you what works best....and what you prefer.

Since you've not received your speakers yet....do you have any equipment now ?

I don't know where your located, but post your area, and see if any fellow AC members might offer you an audition of their systems....it will give you a few ideas...good luck.

[Bigload]

Yes, I have some 2 channel equipment now.  But it is a little on the cheapo side. As you can see, I am working hard to get my act together. 

I have decided to call AVA on Monday and get some things ordered.  Unless I change my mind tomorrow, I plan to order the 240/2 amp and the Vision DAC/Preamp Combination unit with remote volume.  I am only getting the DAC combo unit so I can play my iPod Apple Lossless files via the digital output on my Wadia 170i.  The Wadia and the Marantz SA8003 are my primary sources.  The Salk SongTower QWT's will be my speakers as soon as Mr. Salk makes them.  That left me needing the amp, preamp and DAC.  No I have not heard any better quality stuff than you can hear at Best Buy.  I am doing this all on good faith that Salk and AVA won't disappoint, but I am not at all worried about being disappointed.  I figure if Jim Salk uses them in his home, they are plenty good for me and must be an excellent match for his speakers.  I live in a rural area with no major cities close by so auditioning is a problem. 

Thanks again.

[oneinthepipe]

Tell Frank if you need more than one digital coax input. If you use the SA8003 as a CDP, you might want to use the DAC's analog output rather than the SA8003, and then you will need inputs for the SA8003's digital output and the Wadia's digital output.  If Frank can't provide multiple inputs in that chassis, the Inday switcher works very well.

Congratulations.  You will have a very nice system. 

[TJHUB]

Hahaha!

Terry, you've got the electronics, for sure. 

I wouldn't try to suggest that AVA gear is the only viable option, but AVA is a sure thing for anyone upgrading their electronics.  I can recommend AVA in the same way that I can recommend Salk speakers.  Not everyone will like AVA, and not everyone likes Salk, but Frank has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee, and when he re-sells a unit that was returned, he lists the unit as a customer return, and those units are few and far between.

In-home audition with a variety of equipment is the only way to really know.

Just to show that I am a reasonable person and not inflexible in my thinking, I will throw Lexicon into the hat.   Never mind, they don't make any two-channel stuff anymore.  Oh well, I tried. 

Ha!  There's no need to defend yourself.  I just had to hassle you a bit with the AVA gear recommendations.  If AVA has the features you need, I'm certain it is a fantastic recommendation as I've seen mostly praise from everyone. 

[K Shep]

1.  AVA- Preamp- Parasound- A23.

This would be a great combo IMO.  I own the A21 and drove a pair of ST's with a wonderful result.  I have heard an all solid state AVA system and love the gear.  If you are asking what I would purchase it would be an AVA tube preamp and the A23.

How much should I spend to get decent interconnects?

IMO you should spend all of you budget on gear then save for interconnects.  Blue Jean Cable or Monoprice IC's.

[floresjc]

Yes, I have some 2 channel equipment now.  But it is a little on the cheapo side. As you can see, I am working hard to get my act together. 

I have decided to call AVA on Monday and get some things ordered.  Unless I change my mind tomorrow, I plan to order the 240/2 amp and the Vision DAC/Preamp Combination unit with remote volume.  I am only getting the DAC combo unit so I can play my iPod Apple Lossless files via the digital output on my Wadia 170i.  The Wadia and the Marantz SA8003 are my primary sources.  The Salk SongTower QWT's will be my speakers as soon as Mr. Salk makes them.  That left me needing the amp, preamp and DAC.  No I have not heard any better quality stuff than you can hear at Best Buy.  I am doing this all on good faith that Salk and AVA won't disappoint, but I am not at all worried about being disappointed.  I figure if Jim Salk uses them in his home, they are plenty good for me and must be an excellent match for his speakers.  I live in a rural area with no major cities close by so auditioning is a problem. 

Thanks again.

Wow, nice gear. I'm sure it won't disappoint. I've only had my AVA stuff about 6-7 months now, but I keep wavering on upgrading my DAC from the Insight to the Vision. I'm sure you'll be impressed. I only listened to a Wyred4Sound amps before going with AVA (Dennis had one in his home), but I had never heard the DAC or Pre and both were phenomenal pieces.

[floresjc]

I forgot to mention I'm also considering that Wadia 170i for my iPod as well. Do you like it much? Right now, I connect the iPod to the mp3 jack on my Parasound attached to my home theater, and it sounds pretty good considering how bad the iPod DAC is. I wanted to get the dock so I can use my AVA DAC with my 2 channel setup for supreme quality sounding tunes in my home.

[Bigload]

I forgot to mention I'm also considering that Wadia 170i for my iPod as well. Do you like it much? Right now, I connect the iPod to the mp3 jack on my Parasound attached to my home theater, and it sounds pretty good considering how bad the iPod DAC is. I wanted to get the dock so I can use my AVA DAC with my 2 channel setup for supreme quality sounding tunes in my home.

I think the Wadia was a good improvement.  I also think the iPod DAC was only intened for ear buds.  The trick for me was to first make sure files are at least in Apple lossless.  Lossy formats sound like poo to me regardless of anything else.  Then run a good digital coax to something with a better DAC.  Anything is better than the iDAC. Result was much better for me.  I am anxious to hear how it sounds with a good AVA DAC and good gear.  I am not sure how the Parasound works, but I had tried to do a similar hook up on my Marantz SACD player...iPod USB to USB port on front of SACD player.  I did some googling to finally find out this still did not go through the Marantz's DAC.  The Marantz was doing some kind of limited sonic improvements on the analog signal?? I think??  But it was not getting a digital signal from the USB port.   Again, I like the Wadia.  I read at one time that Wadia was the only product licensed by Apple to export a digital signal from an iPod.  I have no idea if that is true, but I do remember reading it someplace.

[floresjc]

Yes I've read that too. It seems like a neat device and I'm sure that the AVA dac will do just fine rendering your files. I've been really pleased with mine hooked up to a Squeezebox.

[sfox7076]

I like using an airport extreme and my computer for picking songs.  Takes a lot less time than the Ipod to find and pick songs.

[mathgeek97]

I like using an airport extreme and my computer for picking songs.  Takes a lot less time than the Ipod to find and pick songs.

+1

I really enjoy having everything controlled either from my iPhone (Remote app), or from the laptop I happen to have open.  All of this is pulled from a PC on another floor of my house running iTunes 24/7.  The only negative is that you have to get your network working correctly, but even in my house's mixed environment, it wasn't much of an issue.

[Bigload]

Well, I did it.  Called Frank and ordered the Insight 240 and the Vision DAC Preamp combo with remote volume.  It should get here about the same time my SongTowers are due.  Can't wait.  Thanks.