STA-9

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maty

Re: STA-9
« Reply #180 on: 10 Jul 2016, 09:25 am »
You are wrong.

You must compare Nuprime ST-10 (stereo) and Nord with Hypex NC500, Sonic Imagery 994Enh-Ticha Dual Discrete Op Amp + Sparkos voltage regulators (stereo). The price is very similar if you live in EU.

With the Hypex standard op amp and regulators the sound is other, the type of class D that many refuse!

The buffer is the key, with Nuprime and Nord.

Eisener Bart

Re: STA-9
« Reply #181 on: 10 Jul 2016, 05:04 pm »
Gentlemen,

I uploaded today my review of STA-9 in my personal blog. Review is on Ukrainian language.
English version is in progress.

For the most impatient guys - you may use special Google tool for translation which I am including to
every my review. Just choose your language. You should understand that translation will be done by robot, so
better to wait English version.

Anyhow - for the moment you may look on photos.

Here you go:
http://eisenerbart.blogspot.com/2016/07/3.html

Eisener Bart

Re: STA-9
« Reply #182 on: 10 Jul 2016, 05:14 pm »
Yeah, and I forgot to say.  :duh:

My compliments to Mr. Jason Lim and the NuPrime Brand! 

You've created a serious product for very-very reasonable money.
I am in Hi-Fi and Hi-End hobby from 2003 and, I beleive, I have enough own experience to compare.


John Casler

Re: STA-9
« Reply #183 on: 10 Jul 2016, 05:29 pm »
Thank you very much!  I'm new to the hobby and learning everyday.  Until yesterday my short list of amplifiers were Hypex based amplifiers,  the Acoustic Imagery Atsah 500 and the NAD M22.  I have decided to purchase a Parasound P5 preamp,  hopefully it would match nicely with any of these amplifiers.  Now I have to decide on the ST-10 and STA-9(s) as well   :lol:

All good gear to consider, and glad you are looking at NuPRIME.

As some have said above, choosing between the STA-9 and the ST-10 will be based on several considerations.

1) Price:  A pair of STA-9 = $1298  An ST-10 = $1595
2) Power Needed/Wanted: The STA-9 bridged is 290wpc  The ST-10 is 150wpc
3) Tone/Sound:  The STA-9 is slightly warmer and sepia toned  The ST-10 is refined, transparent and accurate

The above are only a small list to consider, since in the end the sound you will generate will also depend on Speakers, Room and Associated gear.

Speaking of associated gear, I see you are considering the excellent Parasound P5, but since you have now discovered NuPRIME, you may also want to look at the DAC-9 and the DAC-10.  Often times people see the DAC designation and don't realize that they really are  Preamp/DACs, with really high quality parts (especially the volume controls) and have great sonic synergy to the NuPRIME amps.




Jg107

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Re: STA-9
« Reply #184 on: 10 Jul 2016, 07:14 pm »
Thanks for all the replies,  I really appreciate it!

My current setup-

Marantz UD7007 player
Denon x3200 AVR
Emotiva XDA2 DAC (to be replaced)
Adcom GFA 5800 (to be replaced)
JBL Studio 500 series speakers
Panamax M5500-EX power conditioner

I started in the hobby last Black Friday when I purchased a Denon X3200 AVR,  little did I know I would become addicted to the hunt for better sound.  Since then,  I went through Monitor Audio Silver speakers,  B&W 600 series speakers and now my current JBL Studio 500 series speakers.  The Monitor Audio and B&W speakers were good but a little too bright,  and for some odd reason these JBL sound magical to me  :lol:.  The main reason I have decided to go with a Parasound P5 was for the features of HT bypass,  tone controls,  and the subwoofer crossover.  I am still open to suggestions on the preamp,  it would be nice to have a matching brand system.  Also for the record,  the main speakers are 250 watts max, 92db sensitivity,  and are 6ohm.

Thanks!

Eisener Bart

Re: STA-9
« Reply #185 on: 10 Jul 2016, 07:33 pm »
ince then,  I went through Monitor Audio Silver speakers,  B&W 600 series speakers and now my current JBL Studio 500 series speakers.

Right choice, man! I also prefer JBLs from such list.

RoadTripper

Re: STA-9
« Reply #186 on: 10 Jul 2016, 09:40 pm »
Is there an analogue to Moore's Law such that every X years audio gear bests or matches gear that cost twice as much as the gear that was being sold X years ago? In other words, what can the STA-9 compete with from just a few years ago. Or doesn't it work that way at all.


snoocher

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: STA-9
« Reply #187 on: 10 Jul 2016, 10:42 pm »
I recently bought an IDA-8 and am astounded by it. It's for my casual listening in the living room with some bookshelf speakers - B&W CM1s. Don't hold that against me.  :icon_lol:

For my serious system, I have a refurbished, rebuilt, and upgraded 30 year old Adcom GFA-555. It's amazing - and pumps out plenty of power into my 805D2s. 325WPC. I'm a B&W guy...sue me.

But here's where I can provide some guidance. NuPrime clearly is high end at an affordable price. Follow John's advice above on the amps. Don't worry about the 'max' on your speakers. That's irrelevant. You want the headroom. They can handle 500 WPC. It's driving speakers too hard with lower powered amps that's the problem. Just be smart.

And I'd seriously look at the DAC-9 or DAC-10. I'm happy with my Wyred4Sound DAC-2, but instead of upgrading it to an SE, I'll probably end up with the upgraded DAC-10.

Parasound makes great gear, but it's kind of 'yesterday'. This NuPrime stuff is the future.


Thanks for all the replies,  I really appreciate it!

My current setup-

Marantz UD7007 player
Denon x3200 AVR
Emotiva XDA2 DAC (to be replaced)
Adcom GFA 5800 (to be replaced)
JBL Studio 500 series speakers
Panamax M5500-EX power conditioner

I started in the hobby last Black Friday when I purchased a Denon X3200 AVR,  little did I know I would become addicted to the hunt for better sound.  Since then,  I went through Monitor Audio Silver speakers,  B&W 600 series speakers and now my current JBL Studio 500 series speakers.  The Monitor Audio and B&W speakers were good but a little too bright,  and for some odd reason these JBL sound magical to me  :lol:.  The main reason I have decided to go with a Parasound P5 was for the features of HT bypass,  tone controls,  and the subwoofer crossover.  I am still open to suggestions on the preamp,  it would be nice to have a matching brand system.  Also for the record,  the main speakers are 250 watts max, 92db sensitivity,  and are 6ohm.

Thanks!

snoocher

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 6
Re: STA-9
« Reply #188 on: 10 Jul 2016, 10:48 pm »
It COULD work that way, and I think Jason and NuPrime are in that direction. But normally with the big boys in this game they find a 1% improvement, market it as unbelievable and earth-shattering, get the audio media to write a similar review, and increase the price from a previous model by at least 10-15%.

This industry and hobby is more like wine. Most top end bottles are certainly great, but when you find the one that's just a touch less 'amazing' for a fraction of the price, that's when you really know that you've done your research and can feel great about. And get just as much enjoyment with a lot of money left over...

Is there an analogue to Moore's Law such that every X years audio gear bests or matches gear that cost twice as much as the gear that was being sold X years ago? In other words, what can the STA-9 compete with from just a few years ago. Or doesn't it work that way at all.

John Casler

Re: STA-9
« Reply #189 on: 11 Jul 2016, 12:21 am »
  The main reason I have decided to go with a Parasound P5 was for the features of HT bypass,  tone controls,  and the subwoofer crossover.  I am still open to suggestions on the preamp,  it would be nice to have a matching brand system. 

Thanks!

Yes, I used to be a JBL dealer when those first came out and liked them a lot.

Regarding the elements of consideration for the preamp:

Both the DAC-9 and DAC-10 have "input memory".  That means if you run your HT L&R inputs in through the analog inputs, you simply set the VOLUME to 94-99db and it is the same as HT bypass since the signal flows straight through at the same level whenever you select it.

Neither of them have "tone" controls as that would disrupt the purity of the signal.  Unless your speakers or other system components have irregular Frequency Responses, tone controls are generally not wanted for that reason.

Both DAC-9 and DAC-10 have RCA outputs that many use for adding a sub to the system.  No need for "on board" cross-over adjustment for most modern subs have both "low pass" frequency adjustments, and basic volume settings, which should be all you need.   You just set the subs Low Pass Filter to where you want it to be, to blend with your main speakers.  In fact, most are continuously variable dials and not "fixed" at a small selection of settings like AVR and Preamp bass management.  If however you want the bass management of reducing the bass to your mains, on board can be for you.

Once the Sub volume is blended, the main gain of the DAC-9/10 would control everything for two channel listening.

I mention these things since you did say, you are rather new to the hobby, and sometimes all the options can cause confusion.  And that is not to say, you may not actually need or want those features, but for more serious music listening, some of them can reduce fidelity, or are redundant.




Eric Gustafsson

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 67
Re: STA-9
« Reply #190 on: 11 Jul 2016, 06:21 am »
Gentlemen!
Please remember that it is STA-9 we are discussing here.  :eyebrows:

RoadTripper

Re: STA-9
« Reply #191 on: 12 Jul 2016, 05:12 am »
Let me ask my question about the STA-9 another way. Would it have been possible for the STA-9 to have been developed and marketed at its current price, say, 10 years ago? If not, would it be because of technology improvements along the lines of Moore's law or because of design breakthroughs that had not yet occurred?

Eisener Bart

Re: STA-9
« Reply #192 on: 12 Jul 2016, 08:33 am »
Let me ask my question about the STA-9 another way. Would it have been possible for the STA-9 to have been developed and marketed at its current price, say, 10 years ago? If not, would it be because of technology improvements along the lines of Moore's law or because of design breakthroughs that had not yet occurred?

10 years ago Class D was in the cradle. Nothing to compare.  :D

gregfisk

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Re: STA-9
« Reply #193 on: 13 Jul 2016, 03:47 am »
All good gear to consider, and glad you are looking at NuPRIME.

As some have said above, choosing between the STA-9 and the ST-10 will be based on several considerations.

1) Price:  A pair of STA-9 = $1298  An ST-10 = $1595
2) Power Needed/Wanted: The STA-9 bridged is 290wpc  The ST-10 is 150wpc
3) Tone/Sound:  The STA-9 is slightly warmer and sepia toned  The ST-10 is refined, transparent and accurate

The above are only a small list to consider, since in the end the sound you will generate will also depend on Speakers, Room and Associated gear.

Speaking of associated gear, I see you are considering the excellent Parasound P5, but since you have now discovered NuPRIME, you may also want to look at the DAC-9 and the DAC-10.  Often times people see the DAC designation and don't realize that they really are  Preamp/DACs, with really high quality parts (especially the volume controls) and have great sonic synergy to the NuPRIME amps.

John,

Can you tell me with these two amps, does the upper midrange and highs soften up a bit (less glare) with the dual STA-9 compared to the ST-10? I'm still trying to decide, and while the guide is useful and I realize the only way to really know is to put them in my system, can you shed any light on this?

Or perhaps I will wait and just buy the K-38 which is what I really want :thumb:
« Last Edit: 13 Jul 2016, 08:44 pm by gregfisk »

rustydoglim

Re: STA-9
« Reply #194 on: 13 Jul 2016, 04:18 am »
Audio technology takes longer time to advance than PC or mobile phones. But also there are just a handful of companies doing advance high power  class-D research (as far as I know there are only three, Nuprime being one of them). The chip companies (TI, Analog Device, ST, etc) are focusing on DAC and class-D integration.
Here's a prototype of STA-9 junior, it sounded like a lite version of STA-9, mainly for DIY, low cost pro audio, commercial, or beginning audiophiles.

It is about 3" x 2", very small and capable of 70W per channel.  The photo shows two mono amp board powered by a 200W SMPS (at the top cut off from photo). It sounded very good. This is still an R&D project just to show that it takes a long time to come up with new products.  It is just as challenging to come up with a cheaper and yet good sounding amp. Even when it sounded good as a R&D prototype, a lot has to be done to bring it to the market.


Eisener Bart

Re: STA-9
« Reply #195 on: 13 Jul 2016, 08:36 pm »
Gentlemen,

as I promised before.  :D

Review on English here.
http://eisenerbart.blogspot.com/2016/07/killers-of-class-ab.html

John Casler

Re: STA-9
« Reply #196 on: 13 Jul 2016, 09:27 pm »
John,

Can you tell me with these two amps, does the upper midrange and highs soften up a bit (less glare) with the dual STA-9 compared to the ST-10? I'm still trying to decide, and while the guide is useful and I realize the only way to really know is to put them in my system, can you shed any light on this?

Or perhaps I will wait and just buy the K-38 which is what I really want :thumb:

Hi Greg,

Well many who follow NuPRIME know that my "personal" favorite (since I can't afford the Ref 20) is the MCH K-38, so no argument on waiting for the ability to get that one.

That said, the STA-9 "certainly" has a more relaxed presentation of the highs and mids, but I would not represent the ST-10 as having "glare".  It is just more forward and evident, without edge, grate or glare (unless the recording has it)

Strangely enough have a bit more time on the STA-9, I found that I notice the vocal a bit more  :scratch:  Not sure why, and I need to A/B with the ST-10 to actually confirm that.

And I am now using the EVOKE EDDIE speakers (like we used at the SHOW) and just tried an experiment adding a "BASS RAMP" :thumb: to the Stand.

And the BASS is crazy good with the STA-9 and the BASS RAMP.  So the take home, is that even though I didn't change the amp, the BASS RAMP displayed the reproductive ability of the STA-9 in the bass, as well as what the speaker can do.

Ohhhhh YEAH :green:

Maybe this weekend I will have the opportunity to do an A/B/C with the ST-10 and the K-38.

I can certainly say that the ST-10 is more forward, and more transparent through the upper mids and highs, without being bright.

The STA-9 is "Sepia Toned" and more relaxed, but certainly not lacking in detail or high end.

So far my K-38 fan status is still intact.   8)

Letitroll98

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Re: STA-9
« Reply #197 on: 13 Jul 2016, 09:46 pm »
Thanks Eisener, good review.  I'm more sold on the STA-9 than ever.  I think I'm going to try one amp and see how it goes.  I have a small room and don't listen at loud levels.

A friend of mine who doesn't like class D and owns an audio equipment company says the self oscillating nature of the amp will transmit an AM signal through the speaker wires causing all kinds of obvious problems.  Has anyone experienced this?  You would need an AM radio to pick up the interference separate from the music signal.  And does NuPrime use any technology to combat this?

Eisener Bart

Re: STA-9
« Reply #198 on: 13 Jul 2016, 10:20 pm »
Thanks Eisener, good review.  I'm more sold on the STA-9 than ever.  I think I'm going to try one amp and see how it goes.  I have a small room and don't listen at loud levels.

A friend of mine who doesn't like class D and owns an audio equipment company says the self oscillating nature of the amp will transmit an AM signal through the speaker wires causing all kinds of obvious problems.  Has anyone experienced this?  You would need an AM radio to pick up the interference separate from the music signal.  And does NuPrime use any technology to combat this?

You are welcome.

I have receiver, I can check it.

Eric Gustafsson

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Re: STA-9
« Reply #199 on: 14 Jul 2016, 12:12 pm »
Gentlemen,

as I promised before.  :D

Review on English here.
http://eisenerbart.blogspot.com/2016/07/killers-of-class-ab.html

Great review Sergii.  :thumb: