AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Bolder Cable Company => Topic started by: silverlight on 12 Oct 2009, 12:55 am
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Well, a long overdue write-up of the Bolder PSU Wayne made for me for my Mac Mini a couple months back. I was prompted to pull out the Mac stock PSU this weekend at the request of another AC user who is thinking about getting one and was curious of the improvements (I had never used the stock power before, so didn't know what I was missing). Bottom line, a very meaningful improvement in sound quality in so many respects, and I heartily recommended the upgrade.
I use the Mac Mini as a headless install in my audio rack in my main system running Amarra. Connects to a Weiss DAC2 via firewire to a Berkeley Alpha DAC using a Kubala Sosna emotion XLR AES/EBU, then to a Cary SLP-05 pre, then to amplifiers (either Spectron Musician monoblocks or Cary CAD-211 FE monoblocks), all interconnects and speaker wire Acoustic System Int'l Livewire. Speakers are Celestion A3's borrowed from the HT while new speakers in transit. Tested with a handful of different tracks including Mi Tierra (a wonderfully recorded track from Uncompressed World Vol. 1), You Do (Aimee Mann / Magnolia), As It Rolls to the Sea (David Grier, Live at the Linda), couple tracks from Rodrigo Y Gabriela's 11:11; Crow on the Cradle and Hop in the Truck (a couple 96khz tracks from Blue Coast Records).
So to the most important part, how did the sound change? The most noticeable change was the significant increase in separation between the instruments and the improved resolution/clarity. The decay after the initial attack in instruments was extended much further to a far more natural duration (vs flattening off rapidly). On soundstage with the Apple stock power the envelope of the soundstage was in front of me and spherically around the speakers. With the Bolder PSU I was well inside the soundstage at the listening position and it extended behind me (and I'm almost at the back against the wall).
So a worthy addition to the Mini if you're using it as a music server in your audio setup. A++ and if you're really into getting improvement, I'm sure Wayne will build the higher grade version of the PSU. I'm posting here in the Bolder circle, but anyone should feel free to link to it from the Apple circle, or CA.
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Hmmm, not that I doubt the outcome, but curious if it would have been a bit fairer comparison if the original power supply had been used for a while?
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Hmmm, not that I doubt the outcome, but curious if it would have been a bit fairer comparison if the original power supply had been used for a while?
Good point. I had thought of that too, wondering if Apple's PSU required break-in. Lefit it on running the computer (running music/processes) continuously for about 48hrs before listening critically to the differences. Certainly could close the gap further with more usage.
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Cost?
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Cost?
Wayne used the Standard Linear Power Supply for my setup at I believe 18.5V (http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/Detail?no=395). Plus the custom cable required from the PSU to the Mini. I'd defer to Wayne what the total unit + cable is.
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Thank you for the review.
I have yet to hear much change in stock switching power supplies over time.
The power supply I built for silverlight would sell for $475.00. The cable for the Mac Mini would add roughly $100.00. It would be built in a smaller case.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=20617)
I could also build an Ultimate Power Supply set up for 18.5 volts. That would cost $1000.00. It would have to be built in a larger case.
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The power supply for the Mac Mini is now listed on the BOLDER Cable Website.
It will sell for $575.00 including the custom cable designed to work with a Mac Mini.
Please allow 3-4 weeks for the power supply to be built.
Mac Mini Linear Power Supply (http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/boldercablescom/-strse-412/Power-Supply-for-Mac/Detail)
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I have received some more interest in the MacMini power supply.
I am currently working on a new case to be used with it. I had some requests to offer multiple DC voltage outputs so one box could supply the MacMini and a DAC, for instance. While I could just add another regulator circuit for the different voltage, I think it would be best to build an entire separate PS inside the box.
Using another transformer and PS circuit would raise the price quite a bit, but it would remove any possibility of one item send noise back into the supply of the other.
Ballpark price with a very nice case would be in the $850-1000.00 range, depending on parts and circuits used.
Would there be much interest in such a product from AC members?
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As a quick update on my Bolder Mac Mini PSU, I have noticed some nice improvement in sound by making two changes: (1) fuse, and (2) power cord leading into the unit. The biggest bang for the buck tweak was the fuse. I replaced the ceramic that came with the unit this weekend with a Furutech fuse, and there was a very material improvement in transparency and detail retrieval. really cool!! A no brainer investment of $40 or so if you have or are thinking of getting one of these.
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Very interesting.
The fuse I use in the power supply is a Cryo-Treated, Silver Plated Acme Audio one. In the past I have found that fuse to sound "better" than the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses.
I'll have to look into the Furutech.
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Do let us know if you develop a change of opinion after checking out the Furutech there, Wayne! :wink:
Best Regards!
DeadFish aa
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Hello! I'm new to this forum. I have just received my Bolder PSU for my mac mini. Thanks Wayne! This thing is build like a tank.
Didn't have time to carefully listen for any improvement cause i had no ac power cord for the thing. Finally i found an old ac power cord that came from an Samsung computer LCD pannel. And that brings me to some questions. 1= I'm in the process of finishing my hifi computer music server built, Shunyata Hydra 8 and Python power cable, mac mini + bolder PSU, berkeley alpha dac(comming soon), rotel stereo amp, Vienna acoustics Beethoven concert grand, and whithout being on the cheap side, would i get improvement from putting a hifi ac power cord, maybe not as radical as a python, instead of a cheap computer cable.
2= Speaking of a cheap computer cable, in the mean time, can it be problematic running the bolder with this cable(18 AWG)?
3= I read from this post about furutech fuse, beside reading the fuse rating on itself(frankly, i can't read it on mine) is there any way knowing with fuse i need so i could change it for a furutech one.
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I do not include an AC power cable because most everyone has one or more laying around. Aftermarket power cords are very personal. What works in one system may not in another.
I do build good AC cables at a very reasonable price.
I have noticed improvements with different power cables with my music server. It is likely you will too.
The fuse that is included in the MacMini PS is an Acme Audio, silver plated, cryo-treated, ceramic fuse. The rating is 2 amp quick blow.
I do have a Furutech fuse here. I have not had the opportunity to compare it to the ACME yet, but I do plan to this week.
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@Wayne - look forward to hearing your impressions of the Furutech fuse. Make sure to give it a day or two to break in, which is both advice I received and what I experienced when I added them throughout the system.
@astarock - welcome to computer audio! good choices! Out of curiosity, how are you converting USB or firewire from the Mini to AES/EBU on the Berkeley? Weiss and Wavelength both have great options. I started with a Berkeley and ended up switching to an Amarra Model 4 (now a little less $ when you add conversion to the BADA) to get to a single box solution and a couple of other features I liked (inputs, word clock input - just added Antelope external clocking with great success), and they sound a little different too, personal preference and system matching.
I also found sound quality differences in how I fed the PSU, a stock power cord vs several others I tried that I had around here. Ended up also sticking an Alan Maher quantum IEC filter in front of it too just because I had it lying around and not in use after moving my DAC to battery power and it also had an impact. But with the great quality of the Bolder PSU I suspect, I've found less variation/impact with power cords than I have found with DAC's or amps.
Good luck and happy listening!
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Thank you guy's for such a quick reply!
@silverlight; about the berkeley alpha dac. No i don't have it yet. Will get it this summer. And as for how i would connect the mac mini with the alpha dac? Well i'v read in another thread that Berkeley audio design themselve are working on a kind of external converter(usb to AES/EBU) made for their alpha dac. So in the mean time i have to decide to temporarily go with the optical Toslink, with an HIface from M2tech, or with empirical audio offramp 3. Not sure about with one cause i want usb to BNC or AES/EBU 24/192 asyncronous and presently as today there is no such thing that exist.
Question! I'v check about furutech fuses and it seems that there made only slow blow fuses. Now, and stop me if i'm wrong, Wayne said earlier on this post that it uses ACME quick blow fuses for the psu, and the way i see it, your not suppose to replace a quick blow fuse with a slow blow one. If some one can enlighten me!
Thanks!
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As a general rule, one should use the same size and style fuse. As I am the one who makes the unit, I can push the rules a bit. :wink:
In the case of THIS power supply, I deliberately underfuse the unit for safety. There is enough leeway that you can use a 2 amp Furutech fuse safely. This is for THIS unit only. Consult with the manufacturer of any other gear you may think about changing the fuse.
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I'm more and more intrigued by the improvements that a stronger power supply can bring to my Mac Mini used as a music server and linked by USB to Audio Research DAC7 -> Ref3 -> VS115.
I found in my past experiences that a stronger linear DIY power supply did improved significantly the musicality of a Squeezebox, then I changed it for a ZardoZ (an Apple airport express modified by Db-System "http://www.db-system.fr (http://www.db-system.fr)", the main mod being an oversized power supply, again ...) ... So what's about the Mac Mini I now use ? What is the rating of that power supply ?
A question that also comes to my mind is if I should change the switching power supply of the 2 gig hard disk which feed the Mac Mini with my iTunes aiff music ? When it will become more affordable and available in larger sizes, no doubt that I will look to SSD.
All advices are welcome.
Thanks and best regards from rainy Paris.
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A $575 power supply for a $699 computer?
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Why do you think the computer is only $699.00?
Something has to be cut back and in most cases it is in the power supply. It is not inexpensive to build a 6 amp linear power supply using quality materials, hand wired, point to point.
If you don't care about the best possible sound you can get out of this source, don't buy it. Simple as that.
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If you don't care about the best possible sound you can get out of this source, don't buy it. Simple as that.
I would provide a lot of reasons for contesting/deconstructing that statement, but that would be as pointless as a ham sandwich at a bat-mitzvah.
I will attend to more important things like bringing the misses to see "Eclipse" so she can quit being the 3rd channel in my two channel system.
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I would provide a lot of reasons for contesting/deconstructing that statement, but that would be as pointless as a ham sandwich at a bat-mitzvah.
I will attend to more important things like bringing the misses to see "Eclipse" so she can quit being the 3rd channel in my two channel system.
I think you changed your post like 3 times?
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thank for detail :D (http://www.bonusdivine.com/apple-mc270lla-mac-mini-desktop-apple-mc270lla.html)
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Any opinions on the new Mac Mini regarding it's built-in power supply?
Can it be easily replaced?
I'm not an EE, would the Bolder Mac Mini PSU work (with proper connection)?
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First I would like to Thank Wayne for sending me the power supply to audition. I received the power supply and then brought it over to a fellow Chicago Audio Society members place.
I will briefly describe his system and then what we heard.
'09 Apple Mac Mini w/ Amarra software
Amarra DAC
External hard drive is a Drobo hooked up via firewire
Speakers are Peter Gunn modified Magnepan 1.6's
Monoblock amps are by Atma Sphere. I believe they are the M-60's but not sure
which version.
All cabling by Reality Cables
Previous to receiving the Power Supply I had heard from a friend that in their listening the PS did make a difference but not huge. So I had that preconceived notion going into it.
I brought the Bolder Cable PS over on Thursday. We listened and my first impressions were very favorable. A larger change than what I was expecting. We could hear an immediate tightening of the bass with better dynamic attack. You could hear individual instruments more easily and better defined in space. There was a greater sense of air around the instruments. There more "life" to the music. It was more enjoyable to listen to.
I left the unit with him over the weekend. I went back last evening along with another fellow CAS member. When I arrived I was told that Amarra had just introduced a software upgrade and they also had a firmware update to the DAC. He downloaded them prior to arriving. We listened and I could easily tell that the updates were increasing the resolution of his system. His system sounded even better after the updates.
After doing some listening and becoming more familiar with the new updates and the Bolder PS in his system we put the stock Apple PS back into the system. The main thing that we picked up on is that his system now lost a lot of it's musicality. It was no longer enjoyable to listen to his system.
We left the stock PS in and did the changes to the Apple Mini that are listed in the DB Tranquility DAC thread. We made the changes to the Mini per the detailed instructions. I have to say that the changes brought the Mini to a level that equaled or surpassed in some ways the PS upgrade. It was much more enjoyable to listen to again. Even with the stock PS. I was awe struck that the modified Magnepan speakers could have the dynamic attack in the bass that they now had. Every ribbon type of speaker that I have ever heard before could not do the slam that these speakers were doing. Maggies (in general) do not do bass dynamics well as compared to dynamic speakers. So for all Apple computer owners that use them for audio it is imperative that you do the changes. Even is you are not using a Mini. After doing the changes to the Mini and listening we started up the computer in 64 bit mode. More icing on the cake which I will not get into detail but I would highly recommend it.
After becoming acclimated to the stock PS with the changes to the Mini we went back and put the Bolder Cable PS back in. All that I can say is that it just improves the sound. The bass even got more tighter and better defined. We were able to hear individual instruments easier. It became even more enjoyable to listen to.
We had a Hi Rez download that we were listening to. Not sure the name but it is a number of singers that some are also making sounds in the background. I would call it Beatbox like. Without the Bolder PS you could hear a main singer and others harmonizing in the background. Your could hear the Beatbox rhythm but it was less defined. With the Bolder PS you could now distinguish 3 other singers individually along with the Beatbox rhythm more distinctly. You could pick up on the individual type of sound that the Beatbox sound was making.
When it comes to ultra high end audio this is the types of things that you are striving to improve to. If you are going for high end audio computer and are using a Mini this Bolder Cable power supply is a must to go to the next level. We have tried things like isolation and power conditioning into the mini along with other tweaks. Those are smaller in comparison to this. The Bolder PS and the internal changes to the Apple computers will bring you to another level that you have not heard before in your computer audio system.
That said these kinds of changes that I am referring to may not be audible with mid fi type of systems. If your speakers are right up against the back wall you will not be able to pick up on the instruments in there 3 dimensional space. If your system does not have the resolution you may not be able to hear as easily each singer as easily as we did.
Thanks again Wayne,
Gregg
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I currently use a Bolder Modded SB Touch with Deluxe Power Supply going into a W4S DAC-1 and I'm THRILLED with the results. It is fed from my MacBook. I'm almost out of HDD space on my laptop and need a solution. I'm thinking one of these options.
1. Replace the internal HDD with something larger
2. Go with a network HDD
3. Get a Mac Mini and dedicate it as a music server
I don't consider an external HDD connected to my laptop an option because it would be cumbersome as I use my laptop all over my house and typically use it when listening to music sitting on the couch.
So couple questions if anyone has an opinion:
1. If I continue to use the SB Touch in the chain, would the Bolder PS on a Mac Mini yield the same positive effects or be no point since I have the Touch with a linear PS?
2. I see a number of older Mac Minis used quite cheap. Should I avoid older ones for any reason be it software, hardware, power consumption, etc and concentrate on maybe an 08 or 09?
3. Would a Bolder Mini PS work on ANY Mac Mini or only more recent ones?
Anything else I should consider?
Thanks,
Mike
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Mike,
At the very least, I'd stick with a Mac Mini that has an Intel chip (rather than a G4 chip). Even if the software you currently use can run on the G4 chip, it is a safe bet that this will not always be the case since the G4 is no longer used. I've also heard other folks recommend getting a dual core Intel chip, but I've never had any issues performance-wise using a single core Intel chip on my Mac Mini that is use solely for music. I may run into issues eventually with that processor or with the limits of RAM that my Mac Mini has, but so far so good (and I am still smiling about the great deal I got on my used Mini).
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Some of the more MAC oriented folks can give you more details about certain of your questions, but I think I can answer some of them.
1. If I continue to use the SB Touch in the chain, would the Bolder PS on a Mac Mini yield the same positive effects or be no point since I have the Touch with a linear PS?
The MacMini power supply would improve the sonics above and beyond what the Deluxe power supply is doing. You are talking about power being supplied to two different items. Replacing a switching supply in almost any product used in the audio system will yield improvements.
3. Would a Bolder Mini PS work on ANY Mac Mini or only more recent ones?
The BOLDER Mac Mini PS will work with any of the units made before the current generation. The 2010 version has a built in switching power supply that cannot be bypassed, to the best of my knowledge. It would be best to use a Mac Min built before then.
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Thanks Roscoeiii and Wayne.
One more, can the bolder PS be used with a MacBook? Benefit to this? My wife also has a MacBook and wants to upgrade. Thought maybe I could inherit hers and dedicate it to being a server vs buying a mini.
Mike
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The power supply I build is just for the Mac Mini. I have not built one for a Mac Book. I'm not sure where I would even get the cable to use with a Mac Book.
Apple has patented all their power connectors. I have found only one source authorized to make the cable for the Mac Mini.
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I need a one box PSU that will power both my MM/Amarra model 4 Dac.
As a side note is anyone hearing a big improvement with the Bolder PSU on an Amarra Model 4 vs the stock PS?
Can it be done and if so how much $$$?
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Let me know what the voltage and current requirements are for the Amarra DAC and I could probably build both PS in one box. It will be a bigger box and more expensive, but it can be done.
Price would be between $1200 and 1500.
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Let me know what the voltage and current requirements are for the Amarra DAC and I could probably build both PS in one box. It will be a bigger box and more expensive, but it can be done.
Price would be between $1200 and 1500.
I looked into this in the past and the Amarra DAC is a 24Vdc and 2-2.5amps should cover it (although worth confirming the current requirements, I was looking at a battery supply)
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The BOLDER Mac Mini PS will work with any of the units made before the current generation. The 2010 version has a built in switching power supply that cannot be bypassed, to the best of my knowledge. It would be best to use a Mac Min built before then.
So, do I understand correctly, that after reading about this great PSU for my brand new Mac Mini, I won't get the same sonic results? What a bummer!
Jim
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Jim,
Your 2010 Mac Mini comes with a power supply built into it.
I CAN remove the internal power supply and install a DC input jack so that you can use an external, linear power supply. In fact, I am working on this mod right now.
I'll have a picture of the modded Mac Mini later today or tomorrow.
The mod will void the Apple warranty.
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Jim,
Your 2010 Mac Mini comes with a power supply built into it.
I CAN remove the internal power supply and install a DC input jack so that you can use an external, linear power supply. In fact, I am working on this mod right now.
I'll have a picture of the modded Mac Mini later today or tomorrow.
The mod will void the Apple warranty.
Sounds like we might be able to move our 2009 Mini PSU to the 2010? That could be a nice option. I have both running side by side, and with two power filters and an upgraded cord, the 2010 with it's switching internal PSU still underperforms the 2009 with the Bolder PSU (by a healthy margin).
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I would suggest a slight change to your power supply, silverlight. The 2010 Mac Mini operates off of 12 volts DC. The earlier versions work on 17 volts. It would not take much to reduce the voltage output internally in the PS.
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From the Bolder store I do not see an external power supply for the 2009 (old style) Mac Mini. Has the product been discontinued? If not, where can I find more details?