Greatest Amplifier Designer of all time: Bob Carver vs Nelson Pass

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firewall

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I've reviewed the mighty Pass x350.8 with my Magnepans, and it sounds sweet!

However, it is:

* only two (2) channel,
* 350 Class A/B watts,
* weighs 127 lbs (do they fill it with lead?)
* Does not possess the macro-micro dynamics that I expected,
* Is not rated @ 4 ohms/2 ohms/1 ohm.

Bob Carver's Sunfire TGA-7401 doesn't possess the 'meters' found on Pass' equipment. It doesn't need anything fancy.

It's just there for business:

* 400 watts of A/B power into 8 ohms,
* 800 watts into 4 ohms,
* Seven (7) channels,
* Incredible detail and micro/macro dynamics.

Bob Carver also introduced Holographic (to eliminate inter-aural crosstalk distortion,) introduced amps that are both incredibly powerful and amazingly brilliant.

So - Dear Reader and owner of Pass - why did you pay 8x more for less?





lazydays

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never liked either one all that much. Still I'd always rate Mr. Pass' designs to be superior
gary

jjss49

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with all the garbage going around about the carver crimson 275 tube amp and its mis represented marketing on this and other high end audio boards, perhaps now isn't the greatest time to debate carver vs pass

nelson pass, his work at adcom, nak, usher, threshold and now, with his own outfit bearing his name and the first watt offshoot, speaks a lot of his designs his thinking his evolution... but he has never tried to bull shit anyone

TomS

with all the garbage going around about the carver crimson 275 tube amp and its mis represented marketing on this and other high end audio boards, perhaps now isn't the greatest time to debate carver vs pass

nelson pass, his work at adcom, nak, usher, threshold and now, with his own outfit bearing his name and the first watt offshoot, speaks a lot of his designs his thinking his evolution... but he has never tried to bull shit anyone
Well said  8)

mr_bill

Is there a two channel version of the Sunfire amp that you are excited about?

SteveFord

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I would think there are a few rather talented ones who have Manufacturer's Circles here.

WGH

I would think there are a few rather talented ones who have Manufacturer's Circles here.

For a lot less money too

"If I ever have to replace my Pass X250, the SET 400 will be high on my list as a replacement."
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158752.0

rotarius

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First check out the recent online chatter about Carver 275 and read up on some of his other gimmicky products of the past, then see if you can find anyone really complaining about anything Pass.  There is no point comparing them. 
By the way, I tried some 80's Carver stuff, sonic holography and one of his unreliable amps.  I would take any decent Japanese gear of that era over that garbage.

Dieterle Tool

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  • I don't know what it is, but I wunt it.

Early B.

Like anything else, you gotta separate "popular" and "greatest." Most would agree that Pass and Carver are certainly among the more popular designers. Good luck with a healthy discussion on the greatest ones.
 

mhconley

I'd throw John Curl's name in the hat. RE: the Parasound Halo JC1.

Martin

dB Cooper

If there were a 'greatest designer' HOF, how/why would you limit it to just these two? How about David Hafler, whose Dynaco tube designs going back to the 1950's are still sought after? Saul Marantz, whose 10B is still considered by many to be the pinnacle of FM tuner design (along with many well-regarded amps)? Tim de Paravicini? Frank van Alstine? Henry Kloss?


To me, Carver's prominence can be traced to the Phase Linear 400, definitely a landmark design and a worthy successor to the Crown DC-300 (which he didn't design AFAIK) as pioneering high power SS amps. Pass' track record is illustrious too, which it should be when many of his amps cost as much as a nice used Beemer. [size=78%]I don't know how the GOAT list got whittled down to just them.[/size][size=78%] There have been many greats.[/size]

dB Cooper

I'd throw John Curl's name in the hat. RE: the Parasound Halo JC1.

Martin


There's another contender


newzooreview

Lee De Forest invented the triode vacuum tube in 1906.

Harold Black invented negative feedback in 1934.

William Shockley invented the transistor in 1948.

Alec Reeves invented the Class D amp in the early 1950s

"The first class-D amplifier based integrated circuit was released by Tripath in 1996"

All of the above from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier

"David Berning … invented ZOTL (Zero hysteresis Output Transformer-Less) architecture in 1996."

And Julius Futterman invented the original output transformerless circuits for amplifiers.

Above from https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/the-technology

newzooreview

And at Bell Labs "The MOSFET was invented when Mohamed Atalla and Dawon Kahng successfully fabricated the first working MOSFET device in November 1959. The device is covered by two patents, each filed separately by Atalla and Kahng in March 1960."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET#Invention

tull skull

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Also want to bring up all the time and effort that Mr. Pass donates to the DIY community.

You guys are forgetting one of the greatest designers of all time who was probably abducted by aliens if we are to believe the stories...

Mr John Iverson

genjamon

The OP reads like someone trying to buttress Carver's reputation in a pretty ham-handed way.

SteveFord

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I'll answer: there is no greatest ever but there are a lot of clever people out there stuffing electronics into boxes.

Craig B

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I'd also throw Bascom King into the mix.

And I agree about the bias shown in the OP. That wasn't exactly in keeping with the spirit of the thread title, or at least what I thought it was going to be about.

rooze

James Bongiorno - RIP.

I'm seeing a few of these pro-Carver posts pop up here and there. I wonder why  :scratch: