[Daryl Zero]

Well, I've been rereading this thread.

Here are the issues I see:

1.  Trial and error. These DACs you all are talking about range from $1,000 to $9,000 and I don't have any dealers to go hear the DACs. Trial and error is essentially impossibly expensive for me.

2.  The Spatial Audio speakers are not the same with the M series differing from the X series so not quite apples to apples.

3.  What is the job of a DAC? Isn't it supposed to do a better job of converting a digital signal to an analog signal (clarity and time)? But now we also think it should color the sound either with a tube sound If you are using a tube amp, why do you need double the tube sound? (Real question). Does that mean you just want more distortion in your music (even order harmonics)? Is that something properly coming from a DAC or the amp? Again, why do you have to spend another $3 - 7K to add more distortion to the music if a $1k DAC does a decent job of converting the signal?

4.  R to R or chip?  I understand R to R is an older system which seems to be in vogue now. My issue with the chips is that they get outdated quickly and never stop updating.

5.  Is anyone ever satisfied with a DAC? On the other place to sell, the DACs seem to outnumber everything else in terms of lists of "for sale." My concern is that the DAC is an audio "black hole" which never seems to be filled. I wonder if that is because there is the thought that DACs are supposed to do everything including tucking you in bed at night.

[Tyson]

I've had my iDSD Pro fully balanced tube DAC for several years and I'm very happy with it.  IMO, most SS gear strips out the natural harmonics that happens in music.  Tube gear does a better job preserving it.  And IME the DAC is the most important place to have tubes, because the digital gear is the most susceptible place for that 'bleached out' sound to occur. 

Not that there aren't good SS DACs out there (there are), but rather, for me, tubes in the DAC are more important than having tubes in the preamp or amp.  Because lost harmonic information at the DAC can never be recovered later.

[doggie]

Well, I've been rereading this thread.

Here are the issues I see:

1.  Trial and error. These DACs you all are talking about range from $1,000 to $9,000 and I don't have any dealers to go hear the DACs. Trial and error is essentially impossibly expensive for me.

2.  The Spatial Audio speakers are not the same with the M series differing from the X series so not quite apples to apples.

3.  What is the job of a DAC? Isn't it supposed to do a better job of converting a digital signal to an analog signal (clarity and time)? But now we also think it should color the sound either with a tube sound If you are using a tube amp, why do you need double the tube sound? (Real question). Does that mean you just want more distortion in your music (even order harmonics)? Is that something properly coming from a DAC or the amp? Again, why do you have to spend another $3 - 7K to add more distortion to the music if a $1k DAC does a decent job of converting the signal?

4.  R to R or chip?  I understand R to R is an older system which seems to be in vogue now. My issue with the chips is that they get outdated quickly and never stop updating.

5.  Is anyone ever satisfied with a DAC? On the other place to sell, the DACs seem to outnumber everything else in terms of lists of "for sale." My concern is that the DAC is an audio "black hole" which never seems to be filled. I wonder if that is because there is the thought that DACs are supposed to do everything including tucking you in bed at night.

Sounds like you are in denial regarding paying for a DAC that is equal in quality to Spatial. I can relate to that. DACs unfortunately are no different than any other piece of audio equipment. You are paying for better engineering, more development time and higher parts quality. There are certainly some really good bang-for-the-buck DACs however. DHT Audio and Schiit Audio come to mind. Denefrips is also a good choice. BTW. Tubes are just a matter of personal preference. No need to argue that one.

You are right. There are very few good stores anywhere that carry the kind of equipment we are talking about. Perhaps consider buying used or buy with a good trial period return policy? My own experience is that money spent on your front end will always pay off.

It is true that new models are always coming out with great reviews but that does not make a good sounding older DAC suddenly sound bad. If you like it then it is good. Period.

What are you using now? If you are still looking for a DAC perhaps give Clayton a call.

Good luck.

[bbybaudio]

Daryl Zero, one of the advantages of the MP DAC is that it is modular and Garry Huang designed it so that when better chips come out he makes plug in boards which he sells at very low cost. I do not foresee going down this path as I am thrilled with the performance of this unit.

[Freo-1]

I've had my iDSD Pro fully balanced tube DAC for several years and I'm very happy with it.  IMO, most SS gear strips out the natural harmonics that happens in music.  Tube gear does a better job preserving it.  And IME the DAC is the most important place to have tubes, because the digital gear is the most susceptible place for that 'bleached out' sound to occur. 

Not that there aren't good SS DACs out there (there are), but rather, for me, tubes in the DAC are more important than having tubes in the preamp or amp.  Because lost harmonic information at the DAC can never be recovered later.

Not always.  The Chord M-Scaler/Hugo-TT2 combination (IMHO) actually does a fantastic job of harmonics,  time domain,  and transients playback.  Connect the Chord setup to a quality set of tube monoblocks,  and one gets the best possible performance that each of the technologies have to offer.