[brother love]

I thought this might could be a useful, fun thread for those who have evaluated the Piano M1 against other CD players & the like. Regardless of what is shared, lets keep it clean & fair.  Virtue Audio products for the money can hold their own & then some, so no need play dirty or be a fanboi.    The objective is to aid others & share our findings; but it’s still personal opinions, equipment synergies, room conditions, etc…

So I will take first crack …

Round 1:  Piano M1 vs. Oppo BDP-83SE

Both units have over 200 hrs. burn-in time.  Int. amp: Virtue Audio Sensation M-451 w/ Dodd tube buffer & Sonicap cap. upgrades; Dodd battery power supply; Speakers: GR Research N2x mains w/ Sonicap upgrades & Rythmik Audio F12G servo sub.

Source material: Elvis Costello & the Imposters- Delivery Man (redbook CD I have 2 originals of, Grammy nominated, & has songbird Emmylou Harris backing vocals on several songs).  Synchronized play all 12 tracks w/ follow-up repeats on some key sections.

Line levels matched w/ Rat Shack digital SPL (Oppo has slightly higher gain, so volume tweaked 1 notch w/ Oppo remote). Listening level audition was set for 84 dB max.

Room: 17’ 11’ x 8’ w/ (5) early reflection & (2) bass panel  room treatments

First off, both units are excellent players. The Oppo has some exceptional stereo output 8 channel Sabre 32 Ultra ES9016 DAC’s; whereas the Piano M1 uses the 16 bit Samsung TDA1542 w/ 176.4 Hz upsampling.

Build/ looks quality of the M1 is far superior (beefier, more solid by far, more attractive). But, the Oppo BDP-83SE is also a universal versatile player that does blu-ray, upconverted DVD, SACD's, mp3’s, etc..  Both have similar load times. Both have excellent customer service.

Findings:

In general for the majority of the listening session, if I was blindfolded & my life depended on it; I’d probably be in deep doo-doo trying to distinguish between the 2. I closed my eyes & did rapid fire on Sensation input select several occasions in order to not know which deck I was listening to (wife is out of town or I would have her switch inputs) & again in general, couldn’t lock-in which was which.  They both sounded fabulous.

Soundstage & vocals were pretty consistent on both units for the most part w/ a few exceptions.  On some passages, the Oppo seemed flatter & drier (more digital), but yet smoother particularly on higher frequencies.  At times the Piano seemed tube-like, more liquid but yet more raw & slightly forward.  I checked SPL readings off & on cause I thought the Piano had more impact/ dynamics & more robust bass at times, but SPL readings were matched. 

Overall listening-wise, I’d really have to call it a draw. I’m keeping both as I need systems for 2 houses w/ time split at both. One thing for sure, both players are winners w/ serious “bang for the buck” sonic qualities.  I highly recommend both.   

[Wind Chaser]

In general for the majority of the listening session, if I was blindfolded & my life depended on it; I’d probably be in deep doo-doo trying to distinguish between the 2. I closed my eyes & did rapid fire on Sensation input select several occasions in order to not know which deck I was listening to...

I was very interested in reading your thoughts between these two players, however I'm disappointed with your conclusion.  Your method of comparison has never worked for me.  IMO - assuming your system hasn't under gone any recent changes - you should know from extensive listening exactly what your system sounds like.  After all, it is your system.  Thus any changes for better or worse should be immediately recognizable.

I don’t mean to turn this thread into a discussion of test methodology, but both of those two players were on my short list.  Even though I have chosen something entirely different, I came pretty close to choosing one of those two players; and I’m willing to bet that sonic signature between the two units is different and discernable. 

[soundpro69]

Hello Wind Chaser,

With all due respect, you reply sounds like the typical CEO's. When you present them with the monthly sales report and it shows exactly the same number of dollars a the prior term and they feel "in their gut" that they had sold "a lot more"...  I mean... Dude: these are the numbers! Do you want me to paint them for you? Results, at least to me, are not something to be disappointed about... They are just results. Anyway. Please do take this as constructive criticism, not as an attack, which there would be no reason for me to attempt.

Anyway, I think that a tie, when comparing fairly, is an honest conclusion. I wish more people had the honesty of saying they could not tell them apart... Or almost, or enough to pick a winner.

And remember this is just a tie in the sound department. Which is most important to us all, but if you have a large collection of DVD-As, SACDs, some BDs and a good multi-channel rig, you will draw your own conclusions. You can also swear you will never listen to anything but red-book... OK. Your choice.

Perhaps this tie really means: In this particular case, you'll have to make your decisions based on other subjects, not just the sound.

Peace!

Gabe.

[Wind Chaser]

Your 'constructive criticism' is noted.  However I've been in this hobby for 35 years, and in that time I've learned and experienced a few things along the way.  Under the conditions that you compared the two units, most people, if they could hear a difference, they wouldn't be able to articulate what that is.  Sound is too complex for quick switch comparisons.  Like quickly fanning through one textbook and then another, you can't be expected to come away with much of a meaningful conclusion.  The subject deserves better consideration.

However as I said, I don't want to turn this into a discussion of test methodology.

[tabrink]

Interesting stuff this thread!
I am not going to comment about which you might like better for as I have done extensive testing and my  (IMHO) all time favorite player the  Yamaha DVD S2700 (thousand bucks in its day and a sleeper for SACD) now sits lonely and relatively unused. The S2700 is brilliant  and full (digital) and is one of the best players I have owned and I still love it. However, when I want to sit back, have a glass of wine and just relax and listen the warmth and the buttery smooth Piano is my choice more times than not. Fanboy.. maybe but for all the right reasons. Warmth, analog sounding , lack of digital brilliance and measured timbre. Yes. Keeping them both for different reasons. In some ways the Yamaha is amazing and sometimes really rocks my room.
So  have some fun this weekend and good music to ya.. 

[brother love]

Your 'constructive criticism' is noted.  However I've been in this hobby for 35 years, and in that time I've learned and experienced a few things along the way.  Under the conditions that you compared the two units, most people, if they could hear a difference, they wouldn't be able to articulate what that is.  Sound is too complex for quick switch comparisons.  Like quickly fanning through one textbook and then another, you can't be expected to come away with much of a meaningful conclusion.  The subject deserves better consideration.

However as I said, I don't want to turn this into a discussion of test methodology.

Thanks for all comments.   I have been in this hobby a long time as well (38 yrs. to be exact).   All your points are well taken, but I think you have cherry-picked a couple of my statements & drawn too sweeping a conclusion. But then I didn't probably detail my methods enough.  Also, just listening to 1 CD is a flawed method too, but it's all I had handy to compare. 

I listened in every manner that I know:  long passages, short passages, full songs, repeat, switch back & forth (but not in the way you interpreted I think. My method was just to not know which input when listening for several minutes). 

Anyways, it's all good.  I welcome others to compare these 2 units & tell me what they hear & discern, esp. you Wind Chaser.  Both companies have good return policies.   

[Wind Chaser]

Both companies have good return policies.   

That's good information to know, not that anyone should be dissapointed with the performance considering the price of either of these two units - regardless of what the sonic differences might be.  If nothing at all I prefer the tidy little package of the Virtue for it's good looks and potentially better resale value.

[TONEPUB]

Huh?