AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: Jim Hamley on 12 May 2017, 05:39 pm
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OK James,
My SP3 does not support 4K and has occasional trouble syncing on video streams. If I send it to you folks for upgrade/repairs I'll be without it for at least a month, will spend $1K to add 4K capability and who knows how much to fix the sync instability?
I've tried other processors and the SP3 sound has spoiled me. It is the most pristine, focused and balanced presentation by far. In comparison, other processors exhibit metallic upper registers and time smearing that impairs imaging.
When I listen to live music, what strikes me is the ability to pick out a single instrument and focus on it alone. The SP3 comes closest to that experience.
Much technology has come out since the SP3 was introduced and it is time for a replacement. I'd rather invest in a brand new SP4 than my long-in-the-tooth SP3.
So, my birthday is a few days away-please make it memorable with a brand spanking new SP4.
Best regards,
...Jim
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OK James,
My SP3 does not support 4K and has occasional trouble syncing on video streams. If I send it to you folks for upgrade/repairs I'll be without it for at least a month, will spend $1K to add 4K capability and who knows how much to fix the sync instability?
I've tried other processors and the SP3 sound has spoiled me. It is the most pristine, focused and balanced presentation by far. In comparison, other processors exhibit metallic upper registers and time smearing that impairs imaging.
When I listen to live music, what strikes me is the ability to pick out a single instrument and focus on it alone. The SP3 comes closest to that experience.
Much technology has come out since the SP3 was introduced and it is time for a replacement. I'd rather invest in a brand new SP4 than my long-in-the-tooth SP3.
So, my birthday is a few days away-please make it memorable with a brand spanking new SP4.
Best regards,
...Jim
Hi Jim
Yes I have to agree the SP-3 'sonically' is without peer.
We have not started looking at the SP-4 yet as it would be a total remake and would have to incorporate all the new technologies.
In the meantime we are offering 4K upgrades and 2.2 capability to the SP-3.
Also the SP-3 is still selling very well (sold 5 this week) I think because a lot of customers do not see the need for ceiling speakers.
james
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Hi James,
How much for the 4k upgrade? Has the price for the USB upgrade been determined yet?
Thanks,
Tony
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Hi James,
How much for the 4k upgrade? Has the price for the USB upgrade been determined yet?
Thanks,
Tony
Hi
Check with Mike on the 4K.
The USB is working well and I will soon have pricing. It will depend on which main board you have. The current board is version 5 and it can be updated for the least amount. Version 4 takes a lot more labour and version 3 more again.
I am putting together an update memo next week so I should have more info for you then
James
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Hi James
Does this "update memo" only concern the SP3 or will it also refer to updating other Bryston products. I am sure that most of your dedicated "Brystonians" with older equipment would be interested in seeing a list of which products can be upgraded and which can't.
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Hi James
Does this "update memo" only concern the SP3 or will it also refer to updating other Bryston products. I am sure that most of your dedicated "Brystonians" with older equipment would be interested in seeing a list of which products can be upgraded and which can't.
Hi
Just the SP3 at this point.
James
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OK James,
My SP3 does not support 4K and has occasional trouble syncing on video streams. If I send it to you folks for upgrade/repairs I'll be without it for at least a month, will spend $1K to add 4K capability and who knows how much to fix the sync instability?
I've tried other processors and the SP3 sound has spoiled me. It is the most pristine, focused and balanced presentation by far. In comparison, other processors exhibit metallic upper registers and time smearing that impairs imaging.
When I listen to live music, what strikes me is the ability to pick out a single instrument and focus on it alone. The SP3 comes closest to that experience.
Much technology has come out since the SP3 was introduced and it is time for a replacement. I'd rather invest in a brand new SP4 than my long-in-the-tooth SP3.
So, my birthday is a few days away-please make it memorable with a brand spanking new SP4.
Best regards,
...Jim
Have you considered a workaround like a 4K switching device?
https://www.amazon.com/AV-Access-Switcher-Control-Adapter/dp/B01HENRCVK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1494762706&sr=8-3&keywords=hdmi+2.2+switcher
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Also the SP-3 is still selling very well (sold 5 this week) I think because a lot of customers do not see the need for ceiling speakers.
james
I have to agree with folks that don't see the need for ceiling speakers. ATMOS is so overrated to me.
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I have to agree with folks that don't see the need for ceiling speakers. ATMOS is so overrated to me.
I don't use ceiling speakers, I prefer my height channels high on the wall. I actually don't like the Atmos upmixer eiether and prefer Auromatic upmixer of Auro 3D.
So, I actually prefer Auromatic over Atmos native mix. With Atmos you are at the mercy of whoever mixed the BRD. If they used height channels a little or a lot, up to them.
With Auro you can adjust the use of height channels to your room, the content you are listening to and to your taste. You can engage them a little or a lot.
Don't throw the immersive baby out with the atmos bathwater until you tried all formats.
To me, spending money on a new processor it would have to be immersive compatible, especially if I were spending more than $3000. But of course not all buyers have the same requirements.
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It is actually an interesting question. On the one hand, I really like the fact that Bryston is offering board to update the SP-3 to more current technologies. However, when you upgrade, the part you are replacing effectively goes in the trash. When that is $100 worth of trash it is one thing. When it is $1000 or more of trash it raises the question of trickle down. Put differently, when is the overall user community better off with a steady supply of slightly outdated SP-3s available used at a bargain, with those wanting the latest upgrading their entire product?
I would guess that the new product version ultimately costs the consumer more, but brings new Bryston fans in through the used equipment market. Personally, I prefer the route that Bryston has taken, although it would be an even stronger preference if the updates were user plug-in replacements rather than requiring a reshipment to the factory and back.
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It is actually an interesting question. On the one hand, I really like the fact that Bryston is offering board to update the SP-3 to more current technologies. However, when you upgrade, the part you are replacing effectively goes in the trash. When that is $100 worth of trash it is one thing. When it is $1000 or more of trash it raises the question of trickle down. Put differently, when is the overall user community better off with a steady supply of slightly outdated SP-3s available used at a bargain, with those wanting the latest upgrading their entire product?
I would guess that the new product version ultimately costs the consumer more, but brings new Bryston fans in through the used equipment market. Personally, I prefer the route that Bryston has taken, although it would be an even stronger preference if the updates were user plug-in replacements rather than requiring a reshipment to the factory and back.
The SP3 was designed first and foremost for accurate sound. If one wants ATMOS, they need to look elsewhere. In fact, they would need a processor with home theater oriented features. I am not convinced by the object based ATMOS as I don't hear object based in real life, and I am not convinced music sounds correct. This processor takes the minimalist approach in favor of superior overall sonic quality. It still sonically betters most processors in its class in 2 channel/ 7.1 Digital and Analog. I plan to at least get the HDMI upgrade because I feel I have a special piece of equipment worth the upgrade for my use. However, even then, only if I get a new 4k HDR OLED TV. No plans as of now.
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The SP3 was designed first and foremost for accurate sound. If one wants ATMOS, they need to look elsewhere. In fact, they would need a processor with home theater oriented features. I am not convinced by the object based ATMOS as I don't hear object based in real life, and I am not convinced music sounds correct. This processor takes the minimalist approach in favor of superior overall sonic quality. It still sonically betters most processors in its class in 2 channel/ 7.1 Digital and Analog. I plan to at least get the HDMI upgrade because I feel I have a special piece of equipment worth the upgrade for my use. However, even then, only if I get a new 4k HDR OLED TV. No plans as of now.
I prefer the channel based Auro 3D over Atmos, but native Atmos discs still sound a lot better than 7.1.
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Not for music. :nono:
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Not for music. :nono:
Why not for music? Works for Pink Floyd, Abbey Road, and the Witchdoctor. I use the same setup as they do at Abbey Road (with active speakers too) but only 1 sub instead of 8:
https://youtu.be/yMlFN8V4qW4
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Not for music. :nono:
Another example using my preferred upmixer, Auromatic:
http://www.avsforum.com/auro-3d-music-upmix-demo-stormaudio-isp-3d-16-elite-prepro-ces-2017/
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Witchdoctor Studio- All Immersive, All Active, All the Time :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164596)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164597)
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I would love to see an ATMOS/DTS-X product from Bryston too!
I am also reluctant to sacrifice Bryston sound quality for more channels.
I was wondering, however, that a Bryston ATMOS/DTS-X capable SP-4 pre/pro would be considerable more expensive than an SP-3. To differentiate the SP-4 from the competition it would have to support at least 16 channels. Emotivas RMC-1 pre/pro under development is planned to support 16 channels and is projected to cost US$4,999...
I honestly do not know how big a market there is for a SP-4 that follows the design philosophy of the SP-3 and just adds the new 3D audio codecs, especially when it might be priced somewhere between 15 and 20k... :o
Cheers Markus
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I would love to see an ATMOS/DTS-X product from Bryston too!
I am also reluctant to sacrifice Bryston sound quality for more channels.
I was wondering, however, that a Bryston ATMOS/DTS-X capable SP-4 pre/pro would be considerable more expensive than an SP-3. To differentiate the SP-4 from the competition it would have to support at least 16 channels. Emotivas RMC-1 pre/pro under development is planned to support 16 channels and is projected to cost US$4,999...
I honestly do not know how big a market there is for a SP-4 that follows the design philosophy of the SP-3 and just adds the new 3D audio codecs, especially when it might be priced somewhere between 15 and 20k... :o
Cheers Markus
Yes that is a challenge - if you want true Class A discrete audio circuits (instead of computer chips) and separate linear power supplies etc. it would be more costly.
james
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Yes that is a challenge - if you want true Class A discrete audio circuits (instead of computer chips) and separate linear power supplies etc. it would be more costly.
james
You could partner with another vendor like you did with Axiom for speakers. Example:
https://www.trinnov.com/tri_news/trinnov-partners-with-jbl-synthesis/
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You could partner with another vendor like you did with Axiom for speakers. Example:
https://www.trinnov.com/tri_news/trinnov-partners-with-jbl-synthesis/
I have suggested something similar before...
But JBL is more or less just rebadging existing products, just as they did with Bryston's SP-3.
That would certainly not be the Bryston way... I suggested to take the digital part from Trinnov and add the analog part from Bryston... but the philosophy of Trinnov is quite different from Bryston's. Trinnov is THE room correction specialist, while Bryston (=James Tanner) is convinced that it potentially harms the sound quality more that enhancing it. So that would be an unlikely partnership... ;)
But who knows what James comes up with... he is always good for a surprise!
Cheers
Markus
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I have suggested something similar before...
But JBL is more or less just rebadging existing products, just as they did with Bryston's SP-3.
That would certainly not be the Bryston way... I suggested to take the digital part from Trinnov and add the analog part from Bryston... but the philosophy of Trinnov is quite different from Bryston's. Trinnov is THE room correction specialist, while Bryston (=James Tanner) is convinced that it potentially harms the sound quality more that enhancing it. So that would be an unlikely partnership... ;)
But who knows what James comes up with... he is always good for a surprise!
Cheers
Markus
I think Trinnov has an exclusive with JBL but there are other vendors to partner with. I think boutique vendors like Emotiva and Storm Audio would love to partner with a blue chip brand like Bryston.
A Canadian firm like Anthem would also be an interesting partner.
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I think Trinnov has an exclusive with JBL but there are other vendors to partner with. I think boutique vendors like Emotiva and Storm Audio would love to partner with a blue chip brand like Bryston.
A Canadian firm like Anthem would also be an interesting partner.
Are you trying to turn the SP3 into a movie processor? Again, I think the SP3 was designed more for music than the latest surround codec. I personally get immersive sound as is. Bryston also doesn't have EQ. Is this a problem? No. It also does not have DPL IIz. So what. Folks looking for ATMOS need a processor where the focus is oriented toward movies. By the way, you left out Classe. And, speaking of Anthem, they have the AVM60 (ATMOS processor) for 3k. Its True Dolby and DTS-MA processor, the dv2 is 10k. Anyone interested in either the SP3 or the dv2 would find a codec a secondary concern I would think.
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Are you trying to turn the SP3 into a movie processor? Again, I think the SP3 was designed more for music than the latest surround codec. I personally get immersive sound as is. Bryston also doesn't have EQ. Is this a problem? No. It also does not have DPL IIz. So what. Folks looking for ATMOS need a processor where the focus is oriented toward movies. By the way, you left out Classe. And, speaking of Anthem, they have the AVM60 (ATMOS processor) for 3k. Its True Dolby and DTS-MA processor, the dv2 is 10k. Anyone interested in either the SP3 or the dv2 would find a codec a secondary concern I would think.
i don't know what the sp4 will end up being. i just think any processor without immersive audio will not be competitive by 2020. netflix just announced that they are starting to stream in atmos. this is just what it is,whether or not you want it.amazon and the networks will follow
if i can get immersive audio on a mid fi receiver why shouldn't I get it on a high end processor? It should be table stakes.
BTW, Bryston's on wall speakers positioned high on the wall will work fine as height channels, no need to cut holes in your ceiling. Just angle them down 15 degrees or so.
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i don't know what the sp4 will end up being. i just think any processor without immersive audio will not be competitive by 2020. netflix just announced that are starting to stream in atmos. this is just what it is,whether or not you want it.amazon and the networks will follow
if i can get immersive audio on a mid fi receiver why shouldn't I get it on a high end processor? It should be table stakes.
BTW, Bryston's on wall speakers positioned high on the wall will work fine, no need to cut holes in your ceiling. Just angle them down 15 degrees or so.
If you have an SP3 and its not immersive enough then you need to look for a feature laden processor with Atmos. But, you may have to forgo features like balanced digital inputs and state of the art analog section. I think ATMOS has a speaker lay out that does not make music seem accurate. My SP3 is totally immersive in my room with a 7.1 and 2 subs layout. I have no interest in ceiling speakers and I was not awed when I heard them.
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If you have an SP3 and its not immersive enough then you need to look for a feature laden processor with Atmos. But, you may have to forgo features like balanced digital inputs and state of the art analog section. I think ATMOS has a speaker lay out that does not make music seem accurate. My SP3 is totally immersive in my room with a 7.1 and 2 subs layout. I have no interest in ceiling speakers and I was not awed when I heard them.
The thing is you really need to experience it in your own room. The Wall by Roger Waters was mixed in Atmos, excellent. The Dolby Surround upmixer on music...meh IMO. Auro 3D on music rocks in my setup. But that is my taste in my room. But there is no way you can get truly "immersive" without height channels. You need a sound stage that extends from floor to ceiling which you can't get with only bed channels.
I don't use ceiling speakers either, I use height channels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTjdPWh4qHI
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The thing is you really need to experience it in your own room. The Wall by Roger Waters was mixed in Atmos, excellent. The Dolby Surround upmixer on music...meh IMO. Auro 3D on music rocks in my setup. But that is my taste in my room. But there is no way you can get truly "immersive" without height channels. You need a sound stage that extends from floor to ceiling which you can't get with only bed channels.
I don't use ceiling speakers either, I use height channels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTjdPWh4qHI
Aren't you using a Marantz 7702 processor?
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Aren't you using a Marantz 7702 processor?
Yes- review below
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/processors/marantz-av7702-surround-sound-processor-review/
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Yes- review below
http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/processors/marantz-av7702-surround-sound-processor-review/
I guess you know its no where near the same class of an SP3, correct?
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I guess you know its no where near the same class of an SP3, correct?
Of course the SP3 is probably the best 7 channel processor available. :thumb:
I wanted an immersive 14 channel processor for Atmos and Auro 3-D and at the time this unit had the best bang for the buck.
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Of course the SP3 is probably the best 7 channel processor available. :thumb:
I wanted an immersive 14 channel processor for Atmos and Auro 3-D and at the time this unit had the best bang for the buck.
At least you are honest. 8) :D
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At least you are honest. 8) :D
Sure, no one can deny Bryston quality. It is amazing that they do it all, from amps to turntables and everything in between. If I had a magic wand I would want a 16 channel Auro 3D capable SP4 (with an MQA DAC inside)
4 Active Mini T's, an Active Center Channel, and 4 Active On Walls or Active Mini A's as height channels. Throw in a Bryston power conditioner and that would be my dream system.
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Any news on a Dolby ATMOS/ DTS-X compatible pre/pro from Bryston?
Or should we look into Emotiva, Marantz, Datasat of Trinnov instead???
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Any news on a Dolby ATMOS/ DTS-X compatible pre/pro from Bryston?
Or should we look into Emotiva, Marantz, Datasat of Trinnov instead???
Hi
Nothing short term - I would look at what others have available.
james
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http://novo.press/bryston-sp4-surround-processor/ (http://novo.press/bryston-sp4-surround-processor/)
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http://novo.press/bryston-sp4-surround-processor/ (http://novo.press/bryston-sp4-surround-processor/)
Yes the Gods have aligned the stars for us - came out of nowhere !
james
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Yes the Gods have aligned the stars for us - came out of nowhere !
james
What can you tell and show us?
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What can you tell and show us?
Hi
StormAudio contacted us and said they were using Class D amplifiers currently but wanted to have a selection of quality Class AB amplifiers as well for their clients and would Bryston be interested in building some for them OEM.
After I looked at what technologies they had available in their processors I thought this could easily be a reciprocal arrangement. Its very difficult these days for one company to do it all so rather than trying to reinvent the wheel you are much better off forming alliances with other quality manufacturers to allow for more choices for your customers. An example of that is our relationship with Axiom on our speaker project and PMC on their active speakers.
james
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Hmmmm... looking at StormAudio’s website, it appears that they have great experience with sound in all of its aspects, but I don’t see anything in there about HDMI 2.1 or what versions of HDR are supported. I don’t really care about 8k, but HDR support for movies and live broadcasts is a must for me.
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http://novo.press/bryston-sp4-surround-processor/ (http://novo.press/bryston-sp4-surround-processor/)
I'll pass on this one. I have been to told by a retired engineer from Dolby that there aren't many really good Atmos soundtracks. Its too much money and work for the so called immersive or bubble of sound.
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Hmmmm... looking at StormAudio’s website, it appears that they have great experience with sound in all of its aspects, but I don’t see anything in there about HDMI 2.1 or what versions of HDR are supported. I don’t really care about 8k, but HDR support for movies and live broadcasts is a must for me.
I was looking for that too. I don't think HDMI 2.1 was completed until fall of 2017. From what I gather, I think this processor has been on the market for about one year now. I'm guessing it's HDMI 2.0
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Very interesting development especially seeing as Bryston will now join the rest of the modern SSP world and offer room EQ in one of their products. Quite the philosophy shift. James, why the about face on this stance? As has always been the case those customers not wanting EQ simply do not have to use it but even then Bryston refused to add the feature over the years.
As far as room EQ goes it's good to see you not going the run of the mill home theater receiver route by adding Audyssey, Dirac is a much better choice possibly only bettered with Trinnov's product.
I remain highly skeptical about "Most critically, the SP4 will be built on a 3U modular platform, enabling Bryston engineers to integrate advanced technologies and make upgrades available to consumers, extending the life of the product."
The only proven long term up-gradable platform over the years has been the Theta Casablanca and now most likely the Trinnov Altitude32 because it doesn't use the typical DSP chips but rather is based on a PC architecture.
The ideal partnership would have been with Trinnov like Harman recently did but I'll definitely be following this Bryston deal with interest.
Regarding HDMI 2.1, nothing has it yet so don't fault this product. It was just recently approved and manufacturers are now in the process of receiving all of the testing certifications so I suspect we won't see any true HDMI 2.1 hardware until at least 4th quarter 2018 and most likely widespread product introductions not until later in 2019.
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Hi Rod
It was not my choice to offer room correction but I have partners and got outvoted.
What I have come to realize is that its not about what I think is best its about what the dealers, distributors and customers want. By not having room correction as an option most retailers and especially Custom Installers boycotted the SP3.
I am still opposed to room correction as I know how much it screws up the Sound Power of the loudspeaker but it seems like I am alone in the wilderness on this one.
james
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[quote author=James Tanner link=topic=150252.msg1663703#msg1663703 date=151773115
What I have come to realize is that its not about what I think is best its about what the dealers, distributors and customers want.
Please don't tell me you just made this discovery in 2017 :nono:
Just because you were hard headed you allowed customers and installers to bail on the SP3? That makes 0 sense IMO.
James, PLEASE, get to Amazon and order the book "The Ultimate Question" by Fred Reichfeld. If you want the Cliff Note version just do a search on The Net Promoter score. You should implement the NPS survey with your dealers and have your dealers implement with their customers. They have a modified one you can implement with employees.
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What I have come to realize is that its not about what I think is best
Of course it is. If I disagree with you I"m free to buy something else.
On the other hand, since everyone has the same dealers and customers are misinformed cattle, if you let them railroad your decision-making process the market becomes homogeneous and I no longer have options.
HST, you also do have to keep your business afloat. Have you done your tightrope-walking practice today? :-)
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[quote author=James Tanner link=topic=150252.msg1663703#msg1663703 date=151773115
What I have come to realize is that its not about what I think is best its about what the dealers, distributors and customers want.
Please don't tell me you just made this discovery in 2017 :nono:
Just because you were hard headed you allowed customers and installers to bail on the SP3? That makes 0 sense IMO.
James, PLEASE, get to Amazon and order the book "The Ultimate Question" by Fred Reichfeld. If you want the Cliff Note version just do a search on The Net Promoter score. You should implement the NPS survey with your dealers and have your dealers implement with their customers. They have a modified one you can implement with employees.
Hi
Its always has been a balance between staying in business and doing what you think is right (based on the facts as you know them) longterm for your customers.
One of the great things about owning your own business is you can generally run it the way you think is best. When we started Bryston I felt if we were an engineering driven company first and a marketing company second we would be successful. And for a very long time that has been my Mantra. But lately I think marketing ability has supplanted engineering skills.
But WD - yes to your question - in 2017 I am realizing that my historical approach may not be successful going forward as it appears to me that the false facts now out weigh the true facts as long as you have the marketing and financial clout to impose your will.
james
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Hi Rod
It was not my choice to offer room correction but I have partners and got outvoted.
What I have come to realize is that its not about what I think is best its about what the dealers, distributors and customers want. By not having room correction as an option most retailers and especially Custom Installers boycotted the SP3.
I am still opposed to room correction as I know how much it screws up the Sound Power of the loudspeaker but it seems like I am alone in the wilderness on this one.
james
Thanks for the reply and background.
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I am still opposed to room correction as I know how much it screws up the Sound Power of the loudspeaker but it seems like I am alone in the wilderness on this one.
james
No you are not. I am with you. In the '70s, every equalizer I put in my system affected the sound in a negative way and screwed up the imaging. For what its worth, I sold high end audio for five years from 1974 to about 1979.
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Hi
Its always has been a balance between staying in business and doing what you think is right (based on the facts as you know them) longterm for your customers.
One of the great things about owning your own business is you can generally run it the way you think is best. When we started Bryston I felt if we were an engineering driven company first and a marketing company second we would be successful. And for a very long time that has been my Mantra. But lately I think marketing ability has supplanted engineering skills.
But WD - yes to your question - in 2017 I am realizing that my historical approach may not be successful going forward as it appears to me that the false facts now out weigh the true facts as long as you have the marketing and financial clout to impose your will.
james
I understand, your brand was built on values that you wanted to stay true to. I think your 20 year guarantee is another testament to your values. I cannot recommend The Ultimate Question book enough. You will see how you won't have to compromise your values as they discuss "good profits" vs. "bad profits".
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PS- While we are waiting for SP4 I hope you are "immersing" yourself in the pleasure of Auro3D music upmixing with a Storm Audio processor either at home or in your lab.:
http://www.avsforum.com/auro-3d-music-upmix-demo-stormaudio-isp-3d-16-elite-prepro-ces-2017/
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I thought it might me interesting to discuss the differences between the setup and applications of Auro vs Dolby.
As I understand it Auro requires side speakers as opposed to Dolby overhead speakers?
Dolby surround is Object based whereas Auro is Channel based?
james
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Auro 3D setup is typically 9.1 or 10.1. In a 9.1 system you add additional height channels above your from L-R speakers and above your surround channels. You can mount them to the wall or use high stands. Auro recommends using speakers of the same type or at least the same brand.
Some users may choose to add an additional top surround channel (Voice of God), right above the main listening position. This setup provides 3 levels of surround envelopment compared to Dolby's two (bed channels and ceiling channels). In my setup I cannot localize the speakers at all. You are literally immersed in sound and just enjoy it. Auro is channel based and I don't know that object based would make a difference in a typical listening room. Auro's achille heel is BRD conttent and here Dolby remains the leader. Many movies mastered in Auro 3D don't have the Auro mix when it comes to BRD as that is a decision made by the studio. Howver the Auro upmixer (Auromatic) does such a good job I doubt most listeners could tell the difference between Auro native content vs. upmixed content in a blind listening test. Auro does not use the upfiring speakers you can use in Atmos. Here is a link that goes into more detail on the setup:
https://www.stormaudio.com/media/auro3d_home_theater_setup_guidelines_v8_20170531__049790400_1458_13062017.pdf
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I use very heavy active speakers which also require power cords and interconnects as height channels. I sacrificed WAF for performance and have no regrets. That is why I use these high stands. I think Bryston TOW speakers would provide a highly immersive experience along with high WAF. Here are pics of my setup. Notice the VOG channel above the sofa pointing straight down:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152962)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161766)
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I think if you are a movie buff Atmos would be a fine choice. The speaker placement is a hassle but that is why they have custom installers. However Atmos content plays just fine through my Auro setup but Auro content or upmixed content would probably not work very well via an Atmos setup.
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One more thing, almost every post I have seen agrees that Auro is MUCH better for music that any of the other formats available, :thumb:
They use an Auro speaker layout at Abbey Road for doing the Pink Floyd immersive mixes, not Atmos:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=162426)
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Makes sense... Atmos was designed for movie theaters.
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New HDMI board on SP-3 as well as SP-4
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175724)
james