AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Speaker Reviews => Topic started by: audiojerry on 4 Apr 2003, 02:09 pm
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I know I'm probably opening myself up for ridicule, but I am extremely impressed by this lttle sub. It has two vertically stacked eight inch drivers mounted on a narrow profile baffle that have as much effective extreme low end output as anything I've heard. The specs rate them at 23hz, and I'm a believer.
I currently have in house 2 Earthquake and 2 Bag-End subs. The Yamaha goes lower with much better articulation and speed. It doesn't move as much air as the big guys, but at $128 each, you can buy 15 for the price of one Earthquake. I picked one up at Best Buy for $219 just to try it out, and later found several web dealers offering them at $128. I got mine at H&R: http://store.yahoo.com/h-and-r/info.html
Using just one, it integrated very nicely with my very transparent ProAc 1SC's. I have ordered two for my audio system. I will connect directly to the speaker outputs and not use any crossover. The 24 db low pass filter on the Yamaha is very effective at blocking out the high frequencies. Almost nothing but bass can be heard coming from the drivers. By contrast, the Bag End and Earthquake have plenty of higher frequency information getting through.
Using just one unit, playing at low volume in the basement. My son came running down from his second floor bedroom to find out what was shaking the light fixture in his room. Objects were rattling all over the place. You couldn't hear it as much as feel it. This was at low volume remember. I can't imagine what several units spread out in a room would do. I am not exaggerating. Even the Bag End and Earthquake cannot duplicate this feat unless you crank the volume up, but then you are hearing more than you are feeling. I like the visceral impact that the Yamaha produces. 128 BUCKS! Another bonus is that they are very small and don't occupy typical subwoofer real estate.
Has anyone else ever tried these little guys?
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Now that's an interesting turning of the tables! The SON coming downstairs to yell at DAD to "Turn that awful racket down!!!" Parents these days, with their booming bass music...I tell ya! :lol: What kind of weird upside down world is audiojerry living in?
The rattling objects comment reminded me of the stuff Michael Barnes wrote about your house buzzing because of cheap, distortion-generating subs and not simply low, loud bass:
Adding a subwoofer should not shake the walls. It should not vibrate your furniture. It should simply add depth and intensity to the music. When there are sections with deep bass, the bass should create shockwaves that you feel but don't hear. The sounds you hear of things rattling in your house is not from the bass. It is from the resonances (distortions) that cheap subwoofer amplifiers put out.
source: subs (http://www.norh.com/products/sub/app.html)
Hmmm...personally I think even if you've got the cleanest sub in the world it will excite resonances in certain objects. The suggestion that only distortion (higher in frequency) tones excite resonances seems odd to me. Certainly subs are not usually set up to produce solely infrasonic information. I dunno...need more info.
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I neglected to say that late that evening he grabbed the Yamaha and hooked it up to his system in the bedroom...argh..."Son, SHUT THAT DAMN THING OFF!!!"
As a way of testing the quality of the bass, I ran the music signal to the sub only without the main speakers, and it sounded fast, tight, and tuneful. I will report back when I have two subs hooked up. Naturally, I returned the unit I bought for $229 to Best Buy.
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Jerry,
Does the subwoofer have a SS or digital amp? I imagine that as the mainstream catches on to digital amps that better and cheaper subs will be in our future.
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You can find more info at: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/av/pdfs/moreinfo/ystsw205.pdf
Unfortunately, this doc won't display properly on my laptop! :evil:
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It makes no mention of the amp technology except to say "highly efficient amp". This leads me to believe that they are indeed using digital amps. I think digital amps are perfect for bass.
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Thanks for the hookup AJ!
At that price, why not try it?
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It has two vertically stacked eight inch drivers mounted on a narrow profile baffle that have as much effective extreme low end output as anything I've heard.
The specs make it look as though the SW205 is a single driver and the SW305 has the two ("dual") stacked drivers. What am I missing?
Randog
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Sounds like a good match for my slated HT project!
FYI, my HT project (just a vision at the moment) involves building five speakers based off the tang band drivers. Amps will likely be built based on the Gainclone amp and using my Klipsch decoder as pre/pro. Budget HT system that is space friendly and wife pleasing! Leaves more money for my music rig!
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It makes no mention of the amp technology except to say "highly efficient amp". This leads me to believe that they are indeed using digital amps. I think digital amps are perfect for bass.
But it does say at the top of the page that it's a "Digital Home Theater Subwoofer"
So you must be right that it's a digital amp in there.
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AJ, i love these kinds of contributions :D And especially a good sub, which are very hard to find cheap.
Are the 8" drivers front firing? From the specs, there should only be a single 8" driver in the 205, but you stated that your sub has two of them. Could it be that you got a SW305 by mistake, because thats the sub that has the dual stacked 8" drivers? Please clarify if you can...
Excellent find!
P.S. Nathan, about that Norh quote on subs....I find it very peculiar when a manufacturer makes claims like that. They are basically stating that a sub that goes below 30hz (when things start to shake), is not a good sub. So there you have it people, the Adire Tumult and Tempest are bad subs from that point of view :wink:
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The frequency specs for these subs are -10dB. :o That's a huge margin if you ask me. Maybe that's common for subs?
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P.S. Nathan, about that Norh quote on subs....I find it very peculiar when a manufacturer makes claims like that. They are basically stating that a sub that goes below 30hz (when things start to shake), is not a good sub. So there you have it people, the Adire Tumult and Tempest are bad subs from that point of view :wink:
Well, I don't think that's what he meant exactly. I think he was complaining that cheap sub amps create distortion and it's the distortion which makes your dinner plates and your windows etc. buzz. That's the part I am questioning, what frequencies are we talking about here? Because I assume distortion means the speaker will be playing higher harmonics above the crossover point. Perhaps I am reading into it too much. Personally I feel that loud SPLs near the bottom octaves, even if they are clean are going to make stuff around your house make noise in an unwanted manner regardless of the amplifier's performance.
If it's infrasonics you want I heartily recommend the Buttkicker tactile transducer. I picked one of these up recently and it's one helluva cool little beast. I bolted it to an old office chair and by pumping 600+ watts into the sucker I can make the chair jump in the air on kick drum hits (when I'm not sitting in it that is). Heavy man. :D
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X-Trum,
Yep, i noticed that too. But after you take room gain at 20hz into account (probably about 6db in a typical room), that should give the low end a good solid boost. But ofcourse thats totally room dependant.
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they must have changed them since i had mine a year or so ago-it stunk
another thing why do people want to use cheap class d and g amps for subs, to me bass is a part of the music so why not use a quality amp?
i've heard the differences and it is major-the digital amps sound like a 18 year olds 92 honda with to much of nothing--bom bom bom-not very musical.i bought to nice a sub (vmps large) and will get a nice amp for it as my last part of my system-now i have a h-k pa2000 bridged 100 wpc -i want 2 more odyssey mono's for it but that aint happening unless i hit the lotto tomorrow night- :mrgreen:
go S U
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Sorry for not getting back to this thread; it's been a hectic day.
First off, do not buy from H&R direct. They are not honoring my confirmed written order. The order states that shipping would be $37 for both subs. I received a notice from them today, that they have shipped the first unit for $47, and the second unit is on back order and would also be $47 for shipping. I informed them that I will be instructing mycredit card carrier to withold payment to them.
I returned my original unit to Best Buy, so I can't confirm if there were one or two 8" drivers. I didn't remove the cover, but I believe there were two front firing 8" drivers.
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[/quote]I know I'm probably opening myself up for ridicule, but I am extremely impressed by this lttle sub. It has two vertically stacked eight inch drivers mounted on a narrow profile baffle that have as much effective extreme low end output as anything I've heard. The specs rate them at 23hz, and I'm a believer.
I currently have in house 2 Earthquake and 2 Bag-End subs. The Yamaha goes lower with much better articulation and speed. It doesn't move as much air as the big guys, but at $128 each, you can buy 15 for the price of one Earthquake.
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Hi AJ,
While I don't dispute your impressions I certainly wonder where they come from. I have not heard the 8" Yamaha, but do have the VMPS Larger and the 15" Earthquake. I find it remarkable that you claim the Yamaha "goes lower with much better articulation and speed", but in your next sentence you say "It doesn't move as much air as the big guys".
Low Extension and articulation, while not mutually exclusive, are certainly qualities that are at differenct ends of the bass perfromance spectrum. Articulation would certainly be considered a quality to do with the reactive speed of the woofer and Low Extension with its ability to "pressurize" a large volume of air, producing a larger waveform.
To think that two (or is it 1) 8" woofs can out woof (both going lower and tighter) is interesting. To further complicate the report you suggest that:
[/quote]"Almost nothing but bass can be heard coming from the drivers. By contrast, the Bag End and Earthquake have plenty of higher frequency information getting through."[/quote]
Now since "fast articulate bass" is generally thought to be at a higher frequency, this report too is interesting.
Also the Earthquake manual instructs you on adjusting the upper frequencies via the crossover, however if your source is sending a full signal then it would seem that the Yammie is x-overed internally already. This is not a malfunction of the other Subs it is something that has to be "set" by the user.
You also wrote:
[/quote]"Using just one unit, playing at low volume in the basement. My son came running down from his second floor bedroom to find out what was shaking the light fixture in his room. Objects were rattling all over the place. You couldn't hear it as much as feel it. This was at low volume remember. I can't imagine what several units spread out in a room would do. I am not exaggerating. Even the Bag End and Earthquake cannot duplicate this feat unless you crank the volume up, but then you are hearing more than you are feeling. I like the visceral impact that the Yamaha produces."[/quote]
It seems here that you are saying the Yammie produces "tactile" without producing "hearable" bass. And you are saying that the other subs cannot do this.
All this seems like very strange performance characteristics.
What is even stranger is that it appears that this sub does all this "and" out performs "highly regarded" subs with a single 8" driver.
I for one, would like to hear more.
But if I remember correctly you also filed a report about the Earthquake CineNova power amp being "veiled, muted, soft, and lacking in dynamics." in comparison to an Odyssey.
Now I have no idea what speaker and set up were in that comparison, but I have the CineNova driving a pair of RM40TRTs and have A/B'd it with several quality amps or have heard the RM40s with a few others, and not to take anything away from the Odyssey, but the CineNova could in no way be ""veiled, muted, soft, and lacking in dynamics."
You don't dislike your Earthquake dealer do you? :lol:
Now another interesting quirk is I located in that thread :
http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5520&highlight=cinenova
In that thread you state that:
Anyway, he reluctantly agreed to try the Earthquake, because he was very pleased the the Earthquake sub he recently bought, which he combined with 2 Bag End subs he already had. Man, the bass is so low that you feel it more than hear it. It was a great cure for my constipation. He also was influenced by some very positive reviews of the amp in AudioReview and by Richard Hardesty of Widescreen Review.
Are the Earthquake Sub and the 2 Bag End subs of this test, (which in that review you say "DID" produce Low Bass you could "feel more than hear"), the same ones your talking about now, that currently cannot produce this same property?
I'm confused :?
Regards,
John Casler
VMPS LA CA USA
SUMMIT Audio Video
310-446-0138
800-320-6884 (order desk)
bioforce.inc@gte.net
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;system=72
http://my.register.com/summitaudiovideo.com/index.html
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John, thats a great technical argument...
AJ, I actually recall that a friend of mine brought a similar Yammie sub to a party last year (it was either the sw205 or sw305), and I must admit that the bass was pretty tight, and had a room shaking ability. But I actually found it VERY one note, and majorly lacking in definition. It was all thudthudthud. Now, this could have also been because it was really being cranked, and mainly techno and the likes were being played on it.
This is very interesting, but AJ, I really trust your reviews, so at the very least, there must be a room synergy thing happening here. Maybe in a room that absorbs a lot of bass, the Yamaha may be perfect.
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Hi John,
That was a very thorough critique, and I give you credit for doing the research. I'd like to devote as much quality time to respond approprietly, but I'm afraid I don't have it.
Let me clarify a few things.
I do not own the Bag Ends or the Earthquakes. They belong to a friend who is building a new home and had to temporarily disassemble his HT system. He is letting me keep and use his 3 Odyssey amps and his 4 subs.
When I commented on the performance of the Earthquakes, Cinenova, and Odyssey's, these components were in his home theater, which is a larger space with different acoustics. His room apparently allowed for greater expansion of the low frequency wave, because the subs did produce room and house shaking bass. In my home, this effect has not been attainable unless I crank them up. When this is done, things do shake, but you still don't get that visceral sensation that comes from the lowest bass.
I'm sorry, but the difference between the Odyssey's and the Cinenova was as I described. Jerry, the owner, could have purchased the Cinenova at a price that would have been lower than the resale value of the Odyssey's, but he had no interest after the audition. The Odyssey's were clearly superior for HT.
As for the Yamaha, all I can say is I have the Bag End's and the Earthquakes at my disposal, and I'd rather use the Yamaha. When I get my pair, I invite anyone to come and compare for themselves.
And I also believe the Bag End is a better sub than the Earthquake.
On the ability to move air, the bigger Bag End's and Earthquakes do move more air, but at a higher frequency. 40 - 50hz moved by 4 large subs is still going to be an impressive bass output, but 20 -30 hz is a frequency you feel as much as hear. That is why I believe the Yamaha causes things to shake 2 floors above, while the Bag End and Earthquakes don't create this in my home.
As for articulate bass, I would describe articulate as starting and stopping very quickly. No overhang, no laziness. The Yamaha is articulate. The Bag End is articulate. I found the Earthquake to be very un-articulate, at least at lower spl. Maybe the Earthquakes excel when there are explosive events to reproduce.
I am not an HT person, so I can't speak with too much authority on HT gear. But I heard the Cinenova side by side with the Odyssey's. I was only commenting on my personal experience. However, my HT friend, Jerry concurred all the way.
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Damn, if it was anyone else I'd likely laugh it off, but you've always shown yourself to be very leve, solid and honest. Though I admit to being sceptical, I will have to check out the Yamaha. My sister could use a good sub, and I wouldn't mind adding one to my bedroom system. No, the Hsu's aren't leaving my main rig! :nono:
Have you figured out for sure which model you're using? I think the 305 is the only one with two woofs; is that the one you've got? If it's the smaller one, I guess more's the better as that's pretty cheap.
I will have to go on record as saying I have seen some very modest and unassuming gear kick ass all over more expensive stuff. If this sub is really that good it's a major feather in the cap of Yamaha.
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Rob,
If there is a Best Buy near you, you can audition one for 30 days before deciding. They will also try to match the best price of another merchant. In my case they couldn't do it, but it may be worth the effort.
I currently do not have the unit as I am waiting for delivery. When I get it, I will again compare to the Bag End and the Earthquake. I should point out that my last comparison was based on trying to use the Bag End and Earthquake with my main speakers about a month ago, and I was not happy with the results. My experience with the Yamaha was last week, and I was delighted.
Again, the Yamaha could not play as loudly as the Bag End or Earthquake, but within it's limitations it went down lower and matched the quickness of my main speakers more seamlessly.
An observation about very low frequencies: Ravi made the comment that the Yamaha sounded 'one note'. When I have listened to test signals 40 hz and lower, those are very low notes, and being able to differentiate the tone between 30 and 40 hz is very difficult for me to discern, and being able to hear 20 hz at all is really difficult. I'm not even sure what 20 hz is supposed to sound like. When I have experienced 20 - 30 hz, it was always in a very large room, and I believe I was feeling it in my gut more than I was hearing it, but maybe that's just my limited ability to quantify the very low bass frequencies.
To me 40 hz is very low, and when it is reproduced correctly, it results in objects rattling in the room. Many speakers I've heard, even subs, don't reproduce 40 hz and lower very well, with the output being rather sloppy, which results in hearing it more than feeling it. I think those really low frequencies need a very rigid cabinet and well controlled driver. When this is done, these low frequencies will be much more powerful and have the ability to rattle objects in other rooms.
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Jerry,
Very exciting stuff. Is the Yammy sub ported? I may give it a shot for my office system or even the main system. For that price, I could get two and run them in stereo.
J
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I don't recall it being ported. I will confirm when my order arrives later this week.
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Another good deal on a sub at Costco online:
Polkaudio PSW450 12" 150-Watt $319.99
Powered Subwoofer
http://www.costco.com/frameset.asp?trg=subcat%2Easp&catid=79&subid=80&hierid=304&log=&NavTop=
Costco has excellent service and lets you return anything to their local stores. I already have a Stryke AV15 coming soon for $160. Then I'll buy the Rythmik A350 for $150 and 2 18" PR-1600gr for $100. So, I'll have spent $410 and still have to put it together.
In any case, this helps give perspective on the cost difference between a good deal on a descent sub and a very good DIY sub.
Al
PS. Jackman, did you ever assemble your SCC300 sub?
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I awaiting other trial testers to give a thumbs up before I bite.
This could be a great gamers/mp3 subwoofer for the PC, along with my Ascend Acoustics cbm-170! Heck, maybe even the bedroom, if it pans out as amazing.
I take seriously the advice of some of these "old timers" as they have found some cheap amazing gear for people. ...........Remember the Michaura m55's *powerbuy* from Ubid? Ohhhhhh, those were the days! :D :D :D
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AJ, do you still have it sitting there? What I was wondering is which one you're using-the 305 has 2 X 8" woofs and the 205 has 1 X 8" woof ( I think this is correct). Which one do you have?
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Rob, I think AJ said he is waiting for his to come.
Anyone else that wants one, check out this link
http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=11184648&m=1&cat=15&scat=18
It's $199 from best buy online, with free shipping. I'm thinking about it.
I was thinking about building a subwoofer sometime in the future.
Wonder what my wife would say if I showed up with another box? :nono:
Randy
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This sub looks to to be very good for $299 on the internet
http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/athena_audition_asp400.htm
Athena equipment is always very well reviewed.
Any comments on this sub vs. the Yamaha?
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Dahlquist seems to have a good reputation for making excellent sounding bargain equipment.
They sell Digital Subs:
http://www.dahlquistaudio.com/subwoofers.htm
In Canada, they can be found at a steep discount online. Lots of raves on other boards about them.
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i had a dahlquist sub right after the yamaha-pdq1500 dahlquist sub-these are well built but the class d amp is like most of the other digital sub amps one note,when i unhooked the the stock amp and used one channel of my harmon kardon amp it made a great difference.
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IMO, the Athena PS400 looks like a killer sub. I used to own the Sound Dynamics RTS9 towers, and they had incredible bass. This is the same company behind Athena, and same driver material (injection molded poly). I've actually heard the P400 briefly, but it was placed really badly (the speakers were in the front of the room, and the Athena was in the back corner of the room). This sub was still awesome in movies, you could feel it in your gut, and had no boominess.
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Yes, from my research on threads, the Athena full stand speakers and bass equipment is noted for very high quality lively, musical tight bass. No boominess.
I have yet to run into a mediocre customer or magazine review. Athena seems to be drawing amazing raves everywhere and is noted for *extreme* value. Athena's design crew is very experienced and have worked on Sound Dynamics products as well as others.
I bought this sub for one of my rooms recently. I'm looking forward to it. :) One really can't go wrong with a $300 purchase if it's as good as everyone says it is.
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You bought the asp400? Cool!!! Please let me know what you think of it when you get it. I'm very impressed with the designer of Athena having owned his previous speakers. I think you will be very impressed. But please let me know, good or bad.
Another big plus is it has a mosfet amp, instead of a cheap digital switching amp like other cheap subs.
Thanks!
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You bought the asp400? Cool!!! Please let me know what you think of it when you get it. I'm very impressed with the designer of Athena having owned his previous speakers. I think you will be very impressed. But please let me know, good or bad.
Another big plus is it has a mosfet amp, instead of a cheap digital switching amp like other cheap subs.
Thanks!
Will do. It should arrive by next week. :)
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You bought the asp400? Cool!!! Please let me know what you think of it when you get it. I'm very impressed with the designer of Athena having owned his previous speakers. I think you will be very impressed. But please let me know, good or bad.
Another big plus is it has a mosfet amp, instead of a cheap digital switching amp like other cheap subs.
Thanks!
Will do. It should arrive by next week. :)
Any new news? I started a continuing thread on this in the Audio Circle since it's now off-track from this subject line.
Randog
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Hey Jerry,
did you ever get your Yamaha subwoofer.
I know it will need break in, but I was curious to see if you still really like it. For this price, if it sounds good, it's almost a no brainer to try one.
Randy
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Hey Jerry,
did you ever get your Yamaha subwoofer.
I know it will need break in, but I was curious to see if you still really like it. For this price, if it sounds good, it's almost a no brainer to try one.
Randy
I haven't gotten the second sub yet. I switched merchants for the second sub because I wasn't happy with the first, and it hasn't arrived yet. The second sub is costing $129 + $27 shipping from hypeaudio.com. I'm letting my son have fun with the first one until the second arrives to break it in, and ultimately I'll use both in stereo config with my ProAC Response 1SC's and let you know how they integrate. The single unit used by my son has some serious low-end response when he plays his techno music. Again, it doesn't play the loudest, but at moderate output the low freqs are way down there.
I was wrong about it having two 8" drivers. It only has one 8" front firing driver with a front port , which amazes me even more. But still, I would bet that 8 of these units for around a thousand bucks could make a rather impressive showing.
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Regarding the low-bass capabilities with just a 8" woofer, the only way I can figure it out (and Yamaha's amp technobabble suggests it) is that they have tweaked the amplifier in the way the Swedish company Audio Pro has done (and trademarked) for many years, by electrically duplicating acoustic properties. I listened to one of their SWs many years ago and it was as impressive and as unbelievable as audiojerry says of the Yam:
Ace-Bass (http://www.audiopro.com/products/acebass.htm)
Val
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I have been using a pair of SW205's in my system for the past week, and I stand by all my previous statements, except that there is only one 8" driver per speaker. They integrate extremely well with my monitors, much better than the Eartquakes and Bag Ends.
I am not high-passing the mains, and I do not have the subs symetrically placed next to the mains. One sub is on a side wall about 5' away from the right speaker, and the other sub is on the wall behind the speakers about 5' behind and to the left of the left speaker. I found this placement gives lower extension.
Again, they can't play as loudly as the big boys, but with two subs they go as loudly as I need, They do go lower than the big boys, too. At least in my system they do.
For HT, I'd probably use 4 subs properly positioned. That's about $620 total shipped to my door from hypeaudio.com.
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audiojerry, I am very familiar with Bag Ends and think of them as the very best subwoofers I have heard in several ways, assuming they are used for music only (I have never had a HT). That was true in two other different systems that I was familiar with as well. I am not alone on this, at least a couple of high-end reviewers (Hardesty, Bascom King) saying practically the same. As both of them did, I found that they are the easiest bar none to blend with monitors, provided you use the ELF crossover (that they call integrator or something) on both low and high pass. Their bass was also the best defined that I have ever heard and it had a "non-rumbly" or "non-resonant" quality (due to the design principle of using the frequency response below the driver's resonance) that made them sound different --and better-- to all the competitors at the time (Paradigm, Velodyne, Hsu, Vandersteen). I also found the ELF crossover to color and veil the monitors' sound, which together with the cabinets having no bracing at all (that made it possible to sometimes localize the sound source even in stereo) forced me to sell the pair I had.
Venezuelan women are understandably very conscious of their beauty, so make sure you have a ton of disposable money!
Val
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Audiojerry,
How do you have the subs hooked up? High level or low level? Are they fed the same signal (mono) or stereo?
I've never had much luck integrating subs with monitors, but perhaps I'll try again.
Thanks,
Duc
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Hmmm, so the Yammies are still sounding good? If they are that good they'd be killer for a couple of bedroom systems in my place. I like the vertical layout of the unit, it wouldn't take up much floorspace. And the price is awesome.
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Audiojerry,
How do you have the subs hooked up? High level or low level? Are they fed the same signal (mono) or stereo?
Duc
I'm using my second set of preamp outs and using each sub as separate channels. Originally, I had each sub positioned next to each monitor's speaker stand, which was ok, but when I moved the subs to an asymetric arrangement against the walls, they seemed to be more transparent and loaded the room more evenly.
The monitors are running full range. I'd like to high-pass them, but I have not been happy with anything I've tried.
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Audiojerry,
Have you tried a high quality (whatever definition) active crossover? I can't recall if you've ever tried and gotten unsatisfactory results with something like a Marchand, or only less transparent actives. I'm thinking of going that route myself so I'm very interested in what has and hasn't worked for other people.
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obf, i presently have a pair of proac 1sc's in my rig, (same monitor audiojerry is using), on loan from a relative. he has only used them full-range in his system(s), either w/, or w/o the aid of a powered sub. my rig has a marchand xm-9 actively crossing the proacs to a pair of vmps subs. my relative commented that he's heard details from the proacs that he's never heard from 'em otherwise, so the marchand must not be taking away much if anyting from detail/transparency. he also said he's never heard 'em sound so good overall... :wink:
the only other speaker i've tried myself, w/& w/o the marchand, was my thiel 3.5's, which sounded better thru the x-over. whatever the marchand was doing to the thiels was outweighed by the benefits of losing the thiels' eq, & its bass driver not seeing much below 70hz...
doug s.
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audiojerry,
How is YST-SW305 compared to 205? It seems to give wider x-over range down to 40hz, playing louder at 200w and lower down to 20hz. Has anyone compared these two subs? Are you still using them with ProAc? Have you tried them with Criterion or Duliceo? Thanks. -Howard
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audiojerry,
How is YST-SW305 compared to 205? It seems to give wider x-over range down to 40hz, playing louder at 200w and lower down to 20hz. Has anyone compared these two subs? Are you still using them with ProAc? Have you tried them with Criterion or Duliceo? Thanks. -Howard
I haven't tried the 305.
I'm extremely pleased with how the two 205's integrate with the ProAc's as well as my other monitors.
I haven't tried the Marchand. Does anyone know if they offer a refund policy?