Raal 140, Neo10, AE Dipole 15 in the works

studiotech · « **Reply #20 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 04:50 am »

Working on a new test baffle. Call it version 2.0

Greg

Rudolf · « **Reply #21 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 09:43 am »

Very innovative - even radical - configuration. Is it for the same room situation as you had shown on diyaudio? In that case it looks like a real clever move of yours. I'm not sure how well it will work, but believe it is certainly worth trying.

Rudolf

studiotech · « **Reply #22 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 03:22 pm »

Quote from: Rudolf on 31 Oct 2010, 09:43 am

Very innovative - even radical - configuration. Is it for the same room situation as you had shown on diyaudio? In that case it looks like a real clever move of yours. I'm not sure how well it will work, but believe it is certainly worth trying.

Rudolf

Correct! I am hoping this configuration will minimize the side wall reflections much more than just a standard dipole. I am inspiried by the Legacy Audio products like the Whisper and the Helix. http://www.legacyaudio.com/index.php?Itemid=300189&option=com_zoo&view=item&category_id=1&item_id=93

As you saw, my setup is very non symmetrical with the left speaker placed directly against a side wall and the right speaker about 4 feet from its nearest wall. This is my best placement choice in order to get a wide enough separation. Based on quick measurements last night, horizontal radiation on this new layout really starts to drop by 45deg, versus the old style had very strong horizontal radiation out much farther. Now, of course, my vertical radiation is quite a bit taller, but I am making a large 'cloud' for the ceiling of Bonded Logic insulation as well as rigid fiberglass and have a thick wool rug btw me and the speakers, so we will see how this works out.

I may also try to put the mids together to form a square and place the Raal above them rather than MTM style. Neos would then be equivalent to a 10" square driver.

Greg

Rudolf · « **Reply #23 on:** 31 Oct 2010, 06:59 pm »

Quote from: studiotech on 31 Oct 2010, 03:22 pm

Based on quick measurements last night, horizontal radiation on this new layout really starts to drop by 45deg, versus the old style had very strong horizontal radiation out much farther. Now, of course, my vertical radiation is quite a bit taller, but I am making a large 'cloud' for the ceiling of Bonded Logic insulation as well as rigid fiberglass and have a thick wool rug btw me and the speakers, so we will see how this works out.

Greg,
I couldn't agree more with your strategy and the measures you're gonna take. Looks like it does work. It would be very nice to see some polars further into the project.

studiotech · « **Reply #24 on:** 1 Nov 2010, 01:45 am »

Quote from: Response Audio on 22 Oct 2010, 02:34 am

Nice combination of drivers Greg.
It will be interesting to see what you end up with crossing the RAAL so low. I know they like 2.5kHz at the lowest and even that's with 24dB. You may notice some compression that low.
Keep us posted on the final results. By the way, I love the midrange of the Neo plannars!

So after a ton of measurements today, I decided to have a listen to just the mids and tweets on the new baffle layout. Well, you were right about the 2.5KHz crossover on the Raal. Even with 24dB/oct slopes, it is just too low for loud playback. I could hear some harsh, straining sounds from it on vocals. Ended up at 4KHz 24dB/oct and the Raals were happy. Neos were still sounding great that high too. Actually, overall midrange is much better. More impact and better visceral feeling on snare drums and heavy midrange transient type sounds. The Neos operating that high makes no surprise since we have so much more diaphragm to move air.

Only problem now is what this move up by nearly an octave will do the polar response.

Greg

studiotech · « **Reply #25 on:** 8 Nov 2010, 11:15 pm »

Another listening session update:

Played around with different settings all weekend again. For fun, moved the Neo10 lower xover point down too 100Hz. Holy s*#t, can these things handle it! I know distortion there is rising, but with the 2 working together, I have no objections to the sound even at levels near 95dBSPL at the listening position. Wow, sound of piano and guitars is impressive. These Neo10 REALLY are something special. Basically, what Maggies should be after all this time of making planar magnetic speakers. If a little old Neo10 can do this, imagine something like a Neo20 filled in on the bottom by just a proper sub and on top by a good ribbon.

Also have a pair of Rythmik Servo 15" subs on the way to help reinforce the Dipole 15s below 40-50 Hz.

Over and out for now.

Greg

DQ828 · « **Reply #26 on:** 15 Nov 2010, 10:13 am »

Quote from: studiotech on 10 Sep 2010, 04:12 am

Greg -technician - www.phatplanetstudios.com

Greg

Whats the extra phase plug about? it looks larger, or is that just the photo?

David

DQ828 · « **Reply #27 on:** 15 Nov 2010, 10:17 am »

Quote from: studiotech on 8 Nov 2010, 11:15 pm

Another listening session update:

Played around with different settings all weekend again. For fun, moved the Neo10 lower xover point down too 100Hz. Holy s*#t, can these things handle it! I know distortion there is rising, but with the 2 working together, I have no objections to the sound even at levels near 95dBSPL at the listening position. Wow, sound of piano and guitars is impressive. These Neo10 REALLY are something special. Basically, what Maggies should be after all this time of making planar magnetic speakers. If a little old Neo10 can do this, imagine something like a Neo20 filled in on the bottom by just a proper sub and on top by a good ribbon.

Also have a pair of Rythmik Servo 15" subs on the way to help reinforce the Dipole 15s below 40-50 Hz.

Over and out for now.

Greg

I'm trying to work out what size amps I'm going to need to run my Neo10 & 15Dipole's Active, any suggestions?

I like your seat, must play your music load if you need to be strapped in

David

T-BAG · « **Reply #28 on:** 15 Nov 2010, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: studiotech on 8 Nov 2010, 11:15 pm

Another listening session update:

Played around with different settings all weekend again. For fun, moved the Neo10 lower xover point down too 100Hz. Holy s*#t, can these things handle it! I know distortion there is rising, but with the 2 working together, I have no objections to the sound even at levels near 95dBSPL at the listening position. Wow, sound of piano and guitars is impressive. These Neo10 REALLY are something special. Basically, what Maggies should be after all this time of making planar magnetic speakers. If a little old Neo10 can do this, imagine something like a Neo20 filled in on the bottom by just a proper sub and on top by a good ribbon.

Also have a pair of Rythmik Servo 15" subs on the way to help reinforce the Dipole 15s below 40-50 Hz.

Over and out for now.

Greg

Greg, can you compare the Dipole15 sounds to the Alpha-15, or just tell me how they sound with a little more break in?
I am on the fence about these to replace 2x Alphas per side. Do they seem fiarly sensitive - or do you indeed to to crank up the gain on them?

studiotech · « **Reply #29 on:** 15 Nov 2010, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: DQ828 on 15 Nov 2010, 10:13 am

Greg

Whats the extra phase plug about? it looks larger, or is that just the photo?

David

Extra aluminum "feet" that I had John at AE make me for the front of the baffle. Yes, they are quite a bit larger. These are the same feet he provides with his subwoofer kits.

studiotech · « **Reply #30 on:** 15 Nov 2010, 11:06 pm »

Quote from: T-BAG on 15 Nov 2010, 09:50 pm

Greg, can you compare the Dipole15 sounds to the Alpha-15, or just tell me how they sound with a little more break in?
I am on the fence about these to replace 2x Alphas per side. Do they seem fiarly sensitive - or do you indeed to to crank up the gain on them?

Sorry, no direct experience with the Alphas. I have not had to raise the level more than a few dB to match the Neos and the Raal. IMHO, there is no comparison from a quality standpoint with the Lambda drivers, but maybe their OB15 would be a good choice too for a lot less money. Search their forum for the appropriate info.

Greg

scorpion · « **Reply #31 on:** 16 Nov 2010, 05:43 pm »

Their IB15, yes but only active. Efficiency is much lower.

/Erling

DQ828 · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Nov 2010, 06:52 am »

Greg

Any thoughts on the sort of wattage it takes to driver the Dipole 15 & Neo 10 to reasonable levels, I dont tend to play music very loud.

David

studiotech · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 Nov 2010, 11:42 pm »

Quote from: DQ828 on 19 Nov 2010, 06:52 am

Greg

Any thoughts on the sort of wattage it takes to driver the Dipole 15 & Neo 10 to reasonable levels, I dont tend to play music very loud.

David

You know, I really can't say. I have the 3 way digmoda unit that puts out 500W into the mids and woofers @ 4 ohms. I do not know how much of that I use on a regular basis, but when I DO wanna rock out, at least I've got some extra headroom there.

Greg

studiotech · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 12:25 am »

Picked up my PVC this weekend and Rythmik Audio servo drivers and amps arrived today!

scorpion · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 09:08 pm »

Very interresting, but why not GR Research OB servos ?

/Erling

studiotech · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 Nov 2010, 11:06 pm »

Well, to be honest, I DID hear the GR research subs last year at RMAF and they were great. Some of the clearest, most pitch defined woofers there. But maybe not capable of quite as low or as visceral response as the Rythmik drivers in a sealed box. The current plan is to augment the Dipole 15's below about 50Hz with these.

Greg

DQ828 · « **Reply #37 on:** 24 Nov 2010, 10:44 pm »

Quote from: studiotech on 23 Nov 2010, 12:25 am

Picked up my PVC this weekend and Rythmik Audio servo drivers and amps arrived today!

What sort of PVC is it, I was thinking of putting my Dipole15's in a pipe rather than a box H frame, maybe

Saurav · « **Reply #38 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 03:13 am »

Maybe you mentioned this already, but what exactly are you going to do with the pipe? Does the woofer get mounted mid-way through that, so the pipe forms a cylindrical H-frame, so to speak?

AJinFLA · « **Reply #39 on:** 25 Nov 2010, 04:23 am »

Quote from: DQ828 on 24 Nov 2010, 10:44 pm

What sort of PVC is it, I was thinking of putting my Dipole15's in a pipe rather than a box H frame, maybe

Looks like C-900 sewer pipe