Cable risers.

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jrocks29ms@gmail.com

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Cable risers.
« on: 5 Jul 2022, 10:18 pm »
Hey,
This post is specifically to the team at gr-research.
I watched y’all’s video on cable risers https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mh1EWGu7Te8 and noticed that ya’ll are using tinker toys. I thought man I should give that a try because I had noticed that spacing power cords apart behind gear makes a difference.
Based on its cost and material choice, I decided to try using the wooden building toys.
After playing around with these, I happened upon a interesting fact I used all my wide pieces on one channel of my system because it was being used on the floor, on the second channel, a more narrow center beam, which supported the cables on the right, because it had to rest on some furniture behind my television.
Well, low and behold, I noticed a distinct difference in sound between channels. So, I tested my theory, and placed longer “sticks “ in the middle of my cable risers, spacing the round wooden ends further from the speaker cables. Low and behold, it made an improvement, and balanced the sound out between the two channels and not just a small difference it was very noticeable.
The adjustment to the cable risers biggest difference was realized in the midrange, where you got more bloom in the lower voice octaves, and more precise positioning in the soundstage, with added clarity between the different instruments. Basically everything cable risers did, it did again that much more when I removed the boundaries of the large ends on the risers. It’s not just the floor that is the enemy it’s the boundaries interruption to the sound field.
You wouldn’t think that a boundary of 1” on two sides of the cable over maybe 5-6 sections of the cable should matter to the point of an audible difference, but it does, and did in my modest system. I can’t imagine how big a difference it would make in a truly reference system.
I just wanted to see if y’all, likewise use, or have tried longer center pegs for your risers. The length of the pegs which I used are about 4 1/2”-5”, this creates about a 1 1/2 or 2” boundaries on the sides of the 24 strand gr research speaker cables. This cable riser practice gives any cables you use risers with, an almost exclusively “air only” boundary, except for the peg which it rests on.
Additionally, I also found that on hardwood floors, or atop furniture, wherever you have a solid surface, using a small amount of blue tac at the base, to secure the cable risers to its floor, created a more focused and clearer top-end presentation. The blu tac prevents micro vibrations from reaching your cables. I found this blue tac tweak, to provide a noticeable difference on my gear which has feet. You can place a peanut sized amount under the feet of your electronics, isolating your gear from the sound waves which often reach the rack or furniture which your gear rests on.
Well y’all give so much to the hi-fi community, I wanted to just start a conversation on the topic, and encourage those with cable risers to at least test using wide center pegs.
Have a great day!
 

nlitworld

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #1 on: 7 Jul 2022, 03:05 pm »
Are you willing to share some pics? I've heard on more than a few occasions of people using tinker toys after Danny had them hiding in the background of a video. I may need to do some tinkering of my own as right now I have cables supported with some 1x3 wood block lifters.

minatophase3

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #2 on: 7 Jul 2022, 03:21 pm »



After watching Danny's video I raised my cables off the floor and it made a big difference.  Here is what I am using, 2 5 "tall x 3 "wide pieces of 3/4" ply with a 4" piece sandwiched int he middle.  Works well and is pretty stable. 

Kaiju2189

Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #3 on: 7 Jul 2022, 04:30 pm »
I did the Tinker Toy stands. I noticed a difference. I’m sure I don’t have the most resolving system and the difference was subtle. If it is 100% placebo, I would still be happy for a $15 project. Cheaper than trying a new Whiskey and not liking it 😁 At worst having the cables raised took some strain of of my tube connectors and they look better than cables on the floor in my opinion.

marvda1

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #4 on: 7 Jul 2022, 04:56 pm »
I did the Tinker Toy stands. I noticed a difference. I’m sure I don’t have the most resolving system and the difference was subtle. If it is 100% placebo, I would still be happy for a $15 project. Cheaper than trying a new Whiskey and not liking it 😁 At worst having the cables raised took some strain of of my tube connectors and they look better than cables on the floor in my opinion.
send me the whiskey you don't like :lol:

Audiosaurusrex

Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #5 on: 9 Jul 2022, 11:56 pm »
Just ordered some acrylic stuff from Amazon. So these are my risers, Acrylic Cubes, Bases and U-shapes, Blue Felt, Double Sided Foam Tape. I have enough for 20 which I doubt I’ll need. About $150 total but I like the look. Curious about the audible result?


Cheytak.408

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #6 on: 10 Jul 2022, 03:58 am »
Just ordered some acrylic stuff from Amazon. So these are my risers, Acrylic Cubes, Bases and U-shapes, Blue Felt, Double Sided Foam Tape. I have enough for 20 which I doubt I’ll need. About $150 total but I like the look. Curious about the audible result?

Spray them with some sort of anti - static.  Acrylic plastics, plastics in general are good insulators, but are sinks for static electricity.  Common place practice in tech and aero-space.

Then, enjoy!   :thumb:

Letitroll98

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #7 on: 10 Jul 2022, 12:20 pm »
The late Pierre Sprey of Maple Shade said never use plastic in your cable risers and that they need to raise the cables much higher than typical risers, I believe he said 12" but don't quote me on that.  The ideas behind that are much as Danny described in the linked video, the electrostatic field from the carpet affects the signal.  Pierre said you need the extra distance to overcome the electro magnetic field effects, which was we know reduces in intensity according to the inverse square law.  I like Danny's addendums to that, the dialectic of the cables, any shielding, the type of carpet, and if you have wooden flooring all make a difference in how effective this tweak will be.  Maple Shade had a chopsticks affair with a rubber band making a tripod, I imagine small dowels rather than actual chopsticks.  I'm redoing my listening room, I might try it.

jrocks29ms@gmail.com

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #8 on: 10 Jul 2022, 07:38 pm »
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but from what I have been told, plastics are not a good insulator nor barrier for cables to rest against. Plastic near the electrical field will smear the mid-range and, in my experience, the more plastic in the vicinity of the cables, the worse it sounds. My right channel speaker has no choice but to be positioned near my tv (plastic back) and it undoubtedly has an audible smearing and affect on the precision/focus. In fact it drives me nuts, the difference between left and right channel. My left channel has no barriers and just rests on the cable risers. My right channel runs under my tv and rests on the tv stand, with a tinker toy wood peg under it. I may have to at some point cut my right channel speaker cable by a foot or two to allow for a run that doesn’t need to loop in a circle, to kill length and remove the need to rest near other things.
Once you try it, and know the difference its hard to go back. I encourage you to try tinker toys. Wood is an excellent material for cable risers. Many pro risers use some sort of ceramic. Those are the two most common materials I’ve heard good feedback about.
They make a exclusively natural wood colored tinker toy set (ie. No random bright colors). Which is quite nice, and a little easier on the eyes.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B097HK33W5?pd_rd_i=B097HK33W5&pf_rd_p=7672bfb7-93b0-4322-b745-2104db09c4df&pf_rd_r=HAGTZBNHVDME56N1GQ5Z&pd_rd_wg=Y4Ffq&pd_rd_w=MoPLS&pd_rd_r=d6dceebd-1bff-4734-b537-c9e706480d1f

Two or three sets of this kit should provide enough for nearly any pair of speaker cables under 10 feet.
I used two kits and created about 11 risers, you can create more but with a narrower center peg. (Which causes a worsening of the sound.)
Very economical and good sounding solution for less than $35.

Audiosaurusrex

Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #9 on: 10 Jul 2022, 10:44 pm »
I appreciate all comments but tell me why many turntables use acrylic platters? My attempt at making cable risers was to construct something that can suspend the cables approximately 6 inches off my wooden floors and make then somewhat anti-resonant that had a more refined look without spending crazy money. I plan on using some rubber bands on the “U”. Since I had a gift card for Amazon I figured I’d give it a shot and if not I’ll return them, great thing about Amazon.  I found this on a Google search but not really sure of what the values mean for clear acrylic.
https://www.ndt.net/links/proper.htm

Don_S

Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #10 on: 11 Jul 2022, 12:12 am »
Only cheap and cheerful if you ignore the cost of router bits and work for free.









Mariusz Uszynski

Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #11 on: 11 Jul 2022, 01:22 am »











jrocks29ms@gmail.com

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #12 on: 11 Jul 2022, 01:44 am »
This is just a general bit of advice. If you can, you want at least 3-4 inches of space between cables, and any kind of boundaries, including the floor, the type of cable has an impact, but this is just in general.
Another bit of advice is while it looks pretty to have your non audiophile electronics cords all zip tied together, if that pile of electronics gets plugged into outlets on the same circuits, you will have all those unshielded cables feeding massive distortion into the same outlets which power your gear. It is a good idea to not bunch them together, and rise ALL the power cables that find an outlet who’s circuit is shared with your stereo. Seems excessive, but just try it color and sound improve just like using risers on your actual A/V gear!

Mariusz Uszynski

Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #13 on: 11 Jul 2022, 02:26 am »
This is just a general bit of advice. If you can, you want at least 3-4 inches of space between cables, and any kind of boundaries, including the floor, the type of cable has an impact, but this is just in general.
Another bit of advice is while it looks pretty to have your non audiophile electronics cords all zip tied together, if that pile of electronics gets plugged into outlets on the same circuits, you will have all those unshielded cables feeding massive distortion into the same outlets which power your gear. It is a good idea to not bunch them together, and rise ALL the power cables that find an outlet who’s circuit is shared with your stereo. Seems excessive, but just try it color and sound improve just like using risers on your actual A/V gear!

Good point about all zip tied cords, but on that picture, all those cords are all ethernet cables.I wonder, if that's matters?

tull skull

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #14 on: 11 Jul 2022, 02:35 am »
Thanks JRock for sharing your interesting experiences. I would try this yself but I am not able at this time but could you try minimizing the contact area of the riser and cable? Perhaps sanding the horizontal beam into a tri angled shape. Or just a knife type edge at contact point. I think this might make an improvement if you are indeed onto something.

Also in later years you could see Pierre Spreys' show setups had no cable risers as they weren't necessary. Why? Because he had changed his philosophy to dressing each cable so that it was hanging in air from source to input. This included speaker cables. That would be a tough sell in most living rooms because to be honest, it looked like dog's balls ugly. 

NoahH

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #15 on: 11 Jul 2022, 02:46 am »
I appreciate all comments but tell me why many turntables use acrylic platters? My attempt at making cable risers was to construct something that can suspend the cables approximately 6 inches off my wooden floors and make then somewhat anti-resonant that had a more refined look without spending crazy money. I plan on using some rubber bands on the “U”. Since I had a gift card for Amazon I figured I’d give it a shot and if not I’ll return them, great thing about Amazon.  I found this on a Google search but not really sure of what the values mean for clear acrylic.
https://www.ndt.net/links/proper.htm

Acrylic platters are not used for higher end turntables. They are better than plastic for cheap, lightweight ones, but nicer platters are usually glass or a metal.

The resonance is not usually the main issue. Or, at least, risers are unlikely to help mechanical resonance (the cables can vibrate more in the air). It is more about capacitance with the carpet and preventing static.

I am honestly unsure how they affect systems on wood or concrete floors. I mean that literally - I am unsure of the impact

Rikard Ekval

Cable risers. Upgraded Tinker’s
« Reply #16 on: 26 Aug 2022, 09:45 pm »
Hey there,
Danny posted a video on YouTube a month ago, talking about the Tyler Acoustics T2 and in the back there was new secret cable risers in the background.  Tinker upgrades?
Was it these super designed measurement wise secret sauce you talked about?  :D
Danny, please enlighten us!

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #17 on: 26 Aug 2022, 10:20 pm »
They're 4.5" polypropylene "rebar chairs" from Lowes.  :thumb:


NoahH

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Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #18 on: 26 Aug 2022, 10:26 pm »
They're 4.5" polypropylene "rebar chairs" from Lowes.  :thumb:



Least comfortable chair I have ever seen...

Rikard Ekval

Re: Cable risers.
« Reply #19 on: 27 Aug 2022, 05:16 pm »
Lowes was a good and cheap choice. It’s great to use products to something totally else then designed!  :thumb: :thumb:
Like a IKEA hack… :lol: