AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: morganc on 23 Oct 2010, 07:53 pm
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HI Guys,
I am looking for an upgrade over my Zu Essence at the moment and am considering a few options and wanted to see what you guys thought about Salks considering my set-up and my listening preferences:
Room:
1. Highly Reflective Hardwood Floors and Bay Windows behind the speakers. It is not really an option to cover the windows as they are revealing a fantastic view of San Francisco.
2. My room is 13 feet wide by 50 feet long. I do not need nor want to fill the entire room......My main listening area is at 12 feet or so.
Listening Preferences:
1. Electronica, Rock, jazz, female vocalists, lounge
2. I have found that I can easily get great jazz and female vocalist reproduction, but the electronica and rock is where I am seeking the improvement. I do not need huge bass reproduction as I live in a Victorian condo (though obviously I do need bass for my listening preferences.)
Budget:
$2000-4000
Current Set-Up:
Zu Essence
Melody I2A3 Integrated
Musical Fidelity DAC (soon to be replaced by Tranquility DAC)
Mac Mini Server
I prefer a warmer sounder system for lack of a better word (also to tone down the brightness of the rooms that I am in). I want recordings that maybe are not the best quality to sound good. I don't mind compromising a bit of perfection to achieve listen-ability without fatigue.
So my question is, which speakers in the salk line-up would meet my needs? There is a nice pair of H2-TL's on Audiogon and those really tempt me. Would the old ribbon tweeter be different that the RAAL version?
Any other thoughts or recommendations?
Thanks,
Morgan
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The HT2-TL's with the 'old' ribbon tweeter are awesome...I have SongTowers with Dome tweeters and do not have any issues with not having a ribbon tweeter after owning speakers with ribbons ie Magnapans etc.
If you can afford the new ones with the new ribbon then do it!!
But dont feel bad about having last years model of a Salk speaker...Salks are mighty fine old and new!
All the best and welcome to the Salk Circle, hope you get a pair soon!!
Alex
:D
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I'm a ribbon tweeter fan, so I would want the latest and greatest ribbon even if the gap between them was small. The pair on Audiogon isn't a bad deal, as they do have a $400 finish upgrade, but for myself I would prefer the RAAL version with a standard curly cherry or walnut finish versus the LCY with an upgraded finish (although it would cost me $500 more).
Steve
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What is the difference between the old and new ribbon tweeter in performance? Do any of you listen to rock and electronica on the Salks and not find them too revealing of poor recordings?
Thanks guys,
Morgan
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It is a shame you can't put some rugs on your Hardwood Floors... I suppose Acoustic Treatment is out of the question also...
Just a thought...
I hope it all works out for you... Sounds like a beautiful view.
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I'm not compelled to get Raal tweeters after living with LCY's on several pairs. If I buy new speakers some day and can get the RAAL then I would do so. But I would not change midstream for them.
The difference is subtle and not enough to distract you in my experience. As mentioned you need to treat your room otherwise any pair of speakers you are likely to place there will disappoint you.
Bad recordings will be emphasized by all the components in the system and not just the speakers.
I'd grab those HT2TL's as they have little use and were in the trusted care of Bill Baker.
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Yes, I do have rugs down and maybe will put a few more down.....
Room treatments would be much harder, but I do know that each change that I have made has been a big upgrade....from Onix Strata Mini to Onix Ref 3 to the Zu's. Also as I added tubes in the sound definitely became much warmer and all around much better.
As for the room, I will snap a few photos and see if any room treatments are possible and also give you guys a glimpse of these nice views that I have.
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There are a few of us Salk owners in SF and the bay area including me. If you would like to arrange a listening session at my place then u can PM me. I am in heart of SF. I own the HT1-TLs with LCY tweeter and I love the sound of ribbon tweeters after many years of owning only dome tweeters (metal and fabric). I heard the new RAAl tweeter at RMAF and I think it's a bit smoother than the LCY... Personally I would prefer it but I agree with others that the margin of improvement is not large.
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Hi I checked out the Stereophile review of your current speakers to see whether they might be considered on the "warm" side. The measurements show a lot of ringing in the midrange and lower treble due to cone breakup, and that usually will produce some glare that wouldn't be consistent with a warm voicing. On the other hand, the room measurements indicate that the highest octaves are somewhat shelved down. How would you describe the sound of your Zu's? The HT2's, whether with the LCY or RAAL, are basically voiced flat. I'm pretty sure the midrange would be cleaner on the HT2's. The only issue is the tweeter voicing. But if that proves too aggressive in your room, the tweeter can be voiced down quite simply for the price of a couple of resistors. I don't like to encourage this kind of field adjustment because stuff can happen. But if you end up buying the HT2's, either new or used, and you really want more subdued highs, then the adjustment is quite simple. As to whether the HT2's, however voiced, will make a bad recording sound good--probably not. The only sensible design goal for loudspeakers is accuracy, and garbage in will definitely be garbage out.
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Greetings eveyone,
Yes, the HT2-TL's on audiogon are the units that Jim sent to me to have available for interested parties in my region to audition.
Prior to hearing these speakers for myself, I had heard some comment that Jim's speakers were on the hot side. Should that have been the case, I would have asked Jim if I could tone down the tweeter. Long story short, Jim never received that inquiry from me. I also listened to his other speakers last weekend at RMAF and found them all to be very smooth.
As other have mentioned, what you put into them is what you get out.
I have used countless systems to drive these speakers as well as using them in rotation during the design and voicing of our product lines. I would not call them hot at all rather clean and truthful. The only reason for letting them go now is to have the new version available for my customers to audtion. If it weren't for the new version, Jim would not be getting these back :nono:
Pair these up with the Melody I2A3 integrated...... should be a match made in heaven. I hope to have a pair of the Melody M845 not too long from now :drool:
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I spent a long time listening to the Salk speakers at RMAF. Very nice sound and true to the music. My next speakers will be Salk's!
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Thanks for the update Bill. I was under the impression that i would have to sell off my current amp, and that was a bit of an obstacle for me....so thanks for the input.
I am now researching some room treatments and i will try to post photos of my room tomorrow.
Thsnks,
Morgan
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Hi Morgan,
I had a pair of SongTowers with the standard H. tweeter (and not the older ribbon) mated with a Melody I2A3.
Agree with the other posts.
To add, I did generally find the SongTowers in my setup and room to be very smooth. However, there was brightness with certain recordings in the higher frequencies (which I did not attribute to a poor recording issue).
I loved the Melody I2A3, but as the review (6moons, if I remember correctly) points out, 18wpc will only get you so far with the lower frequencies. This is likely the more probable reason you are not getting as much from your electronica and rock recordings. Even with the Zu's high sensitivity. I have a pair of Zu Superflys and additional power does add to the overall performance.
Therefore, you may want to consider a changeup in your integrated as well.
However, understand that the SongTowers are Salks entry level offering, so moving up the line will get you more from / in that area, as well as gains overall.
In my opinion, Salks do better with more power than what the Melody delivers. If you are dead set against replacing the Melody, another option would be to get bi-wire posts, keep the Melody, and biamp with a (used and bargain) ss amp for the bottom frequencies. I personally never ran the Melody this way, so you might want to check with Hugh and determine if the pass through is good enough for you to keep the timing and coherence intact.
Good luck with your decision. Jim and crew make fine products. If you can swing it, I would move up the line, as it seems you are actively considering.
Also, photos will help. Can't wait to see your view of SF.
- David.
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Here are a few pics...I also posted under the Acoustic treatment circle......any thoughts appreciated :D
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38251)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38252)
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I am now researching some room treatments ......
Check out the Art Panel.... (http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_artpanel.html)...they would look good in your room... :wink:
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Morgan - Before you buy new speakers try listening with those blinds closed and take that large picture off the wall thats catching the early reflection of the left speaker. If there is any other glass in the area try covering it or moving it. Scott
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Here are a few pics...I also posted under the Acoustic treatment circle......any thoughts appreciated :D
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38251)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=38252)
Wow. Looks like a great place for a pair of SoundScape 10's................
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Morgan,
Great photographs and a wonderful view.
Have to say the Zu Essence speakers look really special in your space.
Pretty neat having the Melody framed up top with the statue! Balance - symmetry - tube peace!
Have you considered heavy cloth blinds?
Realize that you want to keep the view, but heavy cloth will work well to take the glass out of the equation. An easy fix and a livable solution, at least, once it is dark outside.
- David.
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Morgan
very envious of that wonderful view
having a 13 by 50 room
with a nice view and reflective windows
why not try a long wall nearfield setup
I have a 15 by 27 room and it works great with the speakers along the long wall
you won't hear as much side wall effect
it opens up your wonderful view even more
and have the sweet spot on the sofa to the right in your photo
best audio wishes whatever speakers you choose
the salks will disappear nicely and allow the music to fill the room
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What is the difference between the old and new ribbon tweeter in performance? Do any of you listen to rock and electronica on the Salks and not find them too revealing of poor recordings?
Thanks guys,
Morgan
This is just one man's opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but in your situation the RAAL will work out better. It is smoother than the LCY, while still giving the same great extension. Since you mentioned taming the hard surfaces and reflections of your room, it is my opinion that the RAAL tweeter is the best choice. I heard the RAAL lineup at RMAF and fell in love with the ST's and HT2-TL's all over again.
YMMV, of course.
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Morgan,
Great room and incredible view. I love the City and I still get down there to visit when I can. I think that the room will require some treatment if you expect to get the best out of your existing speakers or anything in Jim's line.
As for the HT2-TLs on Response Audio's site, I'm happy to say that they're now spoken for and Bill and Jim did a great job of letting me know what I am getting and what I'll be missing without the Raal tweeter. Frankly, given my roomsize and electronics, I am very happy with the LCY Pure ribbon and I believe I will have found audio nirvana.
So, I would just say, jump on it, the water is fine!!! Good luck in your continuing search for great sound. Dave
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Hey Morgan!
I like the progression you have made in your choices of speakers. Nice to see you alive and kickin.
Hardwood floors are one of the culprets you could deal with by simply decoupling the speakers from the floor. There are some different types of rubber mats that might work. There is a link here by Jim Salk to a company that sells Routing Mats that looked like a really good buy and very effective decoupler. Getting my speaks off the floor helped in my very reflective room with hardwood floors.
The gentleman suggesting the heavy curtains was dead on the money. If they were placed such that they ran from the right and left walls on a curved track they could be used to soften the first reflaection off those walls and used as black out curtains on those rough Sunday mornings.
I think Salk would be a good next speaker for you.
Steve