AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Tortuga Audio => Topic started by: tortugaranger on 26 Jul 2018, 01:57 pm
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Hi All!
With plans set to release our new LDR300.V25 Buffered (active) preamp in late August, I'd like to organize a tour for the LDR300 for those of you keenly interested in giving this LDR based active preamp a test drive.
If you're interested in participating in the tour please post a note here or PM me. It's first come first serve and I'll update the participant list here in this thread as time goes by.
I'm really excited about the LDR300 and I think you'll really enjoy taking it for a spin.
You can read more about the LDR300 via the link below and there'll be more info forthcoming over the next few weeks.
https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/buffered-preamps/ldr300-v25-buffered-preamp/ (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/buffered-preamps/ldr300-v25-buffered-preamp/)
Cheers,
Morten :thumb:
Tour Rules:
1) You get to use the preamp for up to a maximum of 1 week (7 days) from the day you receive it so if it arrives on a Monday you agree ship it out to the next person on the tour list no later than the following Monday.
2) You pay to ship it on to the next participant and you agree to use a shipping service with tracking such as USPS Priority (least cost), UPS or FedEx.
3) Shipment must be insured for $1500.
4) You agree to post your thoughts on the preamp on Tortuga Audio's AudioCircle. You don't have to write a formal verbose review. You don't have to use fancy audiophile adjectives. Just tell it like you hear it in your own words.
5) The tour is limited to ~10 participants although I might squeeze in a couple of more along the way as the tour evolves.
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Hello. Hello. Pft. Pft. Is this thing on?
Not a single one of you want to participate in a tour of the LDR300.V25 Buffered Preamp? :scratch:
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I would be glad to participate. I am moving so late September for me. :D
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Looks awesome and I bet it's killer. It's like your LDR tech got together with a First Watt jfet buffered preamp circuit and they made a baby. Unfortunately, I'm just not in the market for a new preamp or I'd be very interested in the tour.
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Woot woot! We got our first participant!! :green:
The tour group:
1) Tubeburner (late Sept due to moving)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
08)
9)
10)
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I can’t believe more aren’t jumping on this. I’d like to compare to my LDR3.v2, so I’m in and ready now.
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I would love to jump in. I currently own an older version of the passive Tortuga LDR (a DIY) and would love to hear the LDR300.V25 Buffered pre. I'm in the Seattle area, please put me on the list. Thanks!
Matt
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I would also like to get in on the tour. I have a factory built Tortuga now which I'm pretty happy with, but I'd like to check out the new version.
I'm in southern Colorado.
Chris
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Thanks all for signing up.
Here's the updated list.
The actual tour sequence will be determine once we have a full list and know where everyone lives to minimize shipping cost/time.
1) Tubeburner (late Sept due to moving)
2) TJHUB
3) MttBsh
4) ssglx
5)
6)
7)
08)
9)
10)
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Can you please add me to the list. I would love to test this with My new Pass amps.
Thanks a Lot!
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I'd like to be on the tour only if I can do it beginning Oct. Remodeling the kitchen, so the living/listening room is full of "parts". Construction to begin later this month.
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Here's the updated tour list. :thumb:
1) Tubeburner (late Sept due to moving)
2) TJHUB
3) MttBsh
4) ssglx
5) audiogurujax
6) konut
7)
08)
9)
10)
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Oooh, this would be a better match for one of my current setups. Would be great to get on this Tour as well when it starts up. I'm in Seattle area as well.
-dave
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Buffered unity gain, yeah I'm in.
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Put me on the list please. I’d love to hear how it compares to my Melody BP101 tube preamp. It will be paired with a Border Patrol SE300B SET amp. Thanks a bunch!
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Thank you all for your time and interest. It appears we have a full tour. May add 1-2 more and perhaps a standby list.
Here's the updated tour list. :thumb:
1) Tubeburner (late Sept due to moving)
2) TJHUB
3) MttBsh
4) ssglx
5) audiogurujax
6) konut (wait until Oct due to remodeling)
7) SFDude
08) WireNut
9) Ern Dog
10) JWK (waiting on confirmation)
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Is the tour going to start late September as the first person on the can’t receive it until then?
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Is the tour going to start late September as the first person on the can’t receive it until then?
First off we won't have production units until very late in August so figure kicking off the tour sometime in early September.
Secondly, the tour list is just a list right now. It's not the tour sequence. I'll sort the sequence of the tour based on everyone's location and other considerations like their availability. So for example Tubeburner and konut will get moved to the back of the sequence.
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First off we won't have production units until very late in August so figure kicking off the tour sometime in early September.
Secondly, the tour list is just a list right now. It's not the tour sequence. I'll sort the sequence of the tour based on everyone's location and other considerations like their availability. So for example Tubeburner and konut will get moved to the back of the sequence.
Got it. Thanks.
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If you still have room I'd love to try this preamp on the tour. As with the the buffer tour, it's very generous of you to offer.
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Dear Tour Participants,
A quick update on the tour. We are waiting on production boards at this point which should arrive next week in time for the formal release of the new LDR300.V25. Realistically it will take us another week to get units built and start shipping so figure 1st week of September for the tour unit to go out.
There's been a lot of last minute back and forth regarding which specific buffer output component we'd go with but fortunately that subsystem is on a small 4-pin plug-in board so making changes now or in the future will be relatively easy. It's quite amazing how much of a sonic impact changing the buffer transistor makes. It's been quite an eye opener.
For those of you participating in the tour, if you would be so kind, please PM me your contact info including full name, address, phone # and email.
I will sort the sequence of the tour once I have everyone's address. I'll try to minimize shipping distances/cost/time.
Thanks, :thumb:
Morten
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Sounds good. Looking forward to the tour!
-dave
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If you still have room I'd love to try this preamp on the tour. As with the the buffer tour, it's very generous of you to offer.
Will add you in. Thx for your interest.
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Will add you in. Thx for your interest.
Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity to demo it.
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Just a heads up to let the tour group all know that the dual outputs on the tour LDR300 will be wired so that one set of outputs are passive outputs while the second pair of outputs are buffered outputs. There's no bypass or mode switch per say. You can try both output signals which will give you an interesting comparison of the passive vs buffered sound. Look forward to hearing all your thoughts on the differences ....or if you can tell the difference!
The output types won't be labeled !!
Cheers,
Morten :thumb:
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Hi All,
I'm happy to report that the LDR300.V25 Buffered Preamp tour finally kicks off this week! Yippee!!
I've sorted the list based on location and the tour kicks off in Washington on the left coast where there's a group of participants. From Washington it goes to Colorado and then to the Midwest in Wisconsin and Ohio. Then on to Maryland and finally back to Florida.
I'm waiting on contact info from Ern Dog so there may well be some adjustments once I have his info.
I'll update this thread once the unit is finally shipped out later this week.
Thanks again for your participation. I look forward to your feedback.
Cheers,
Morten
1) MttBush (WA)
2) konut (WA)
3) SFDude (WA)
4) Tubeburner(WA)
5) ssglx (CO)
6) TJHUB (WI)
7) wirenut (OH)
8 ) rustyjefferson (MD)
9) audiogurujax (FL)
10) Ern Dog (??)
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Fine tuning the tour sequence based on most recent inputs.
At this point I don't expect this sequence to change much if at all.
In terms of timing, figure on roughly 1 week each plus maybe a couple of additional days for shipping.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) Tubeburner(WA)
4) MttBush (WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) wirenut (OH)
9 ) rustyjefferson (MD)
10) audiogurujax (FL)
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And we're off...
Konut the tour LDR300 is headed your way and should arrive by Tues/Wed next week.
A little info on the tour unit.
The tour LDR300 is a converted LDR3.V25. What that means is the LDR3 had been used here off and on for the past year and as such is not a brand new unit although it's been upgraded with our new OLED display. Consequently, the rear panel on the tour unit still says LDR3.V25 even though the internals have been modified to include the new SSB.V1 Rev A solid state buffer board which has been integrated with the V25 controller. Thus the only real difference between a production LDR300 and the tour LDR300 are purely cosmetic.
The tour LDR300 includes the optional upgrade to a Belleson SuperRegulator which has specs claiming 110 dB noise suppression compared to around 80 dB using the stock TL317 regulator. The tour LDR300 also includes the option upgrade to VCAP 3.3 uF OIMP output caps which are about as large a physical cap as will practically fit into the current buffer board. From very recent testing I've bumped up the input caps to 4.7 uF WIMA MKP polypropylene caps which are now the stock caps of choice until such time as we discover a better alternative.
The LDR300's buffer utilizes slightly more than 3,000 uF of power supply filtering which is arguably total overkill since it draws maybe a total of 25 milliamps of primary power. The filter caps are ELNA Silmic II silk capacitors which in my view are some of the best electrolytic audio capacitors available today. One of the goals for the LDR300 was to have as dead quiet an output as the unbuffered passive signal. Subjectively I think we accomplished that but I look forward to getting the opinion of others as they give it a try.
We spent way more time than I'd planned on trying out various makes/models of transistors in the buffer module. We listened to several MOSFET as well as JFETs. In the end it was no contest when we finally tried out the LSK170 JFET made by LinearSystems in California. It not only sounded the best but its noise specs are remarkably low. The buffer modules are plug-in so if we find something better down the road it would a simple matter of yanking the current modules out and plugging in new ones.
One of the areas that I spent quite a bit of time futzing with is the power-up/turn-on/turn-off/power-down logic and protection. The goal was to avoid any noticeable power/turn on/off transient bump at the speakers. I'm confident we succeeded at this. One of the consequences is there's an extra long delay...sometimes upward of 20 seconds...from the time you plug power into the preamp, and subsequently turn it on after it boots up, before the preamp outputs connect to the buffer and goes live the first time. Assuming you keep power connected to the unit, then during subsequent normal turn on/off there's only a 10 second delay before the buffer unmutes. Buffer output isolation is done via LDRs and not relays. There are no relays in the signal path. Note that if you abruptly remove power from the preamp before first turning if off normally, you'll probably see a very brief but non-violent in/out excursion in your woofer cone but absolutely no pops or bangs.
The tour LDR300 has dual outputs. The outermost (closest to edge of rear panel) pair of outputs are the buffered outputs. The second inner pair of outputs carry the unbuffered passive preamp outputs. If you're curious how different (or similar!!) the preamp sounds as a passive vs. buffered this can very easily be done by manually moving your interconnects between these 2 pairs of output jacks.
In keeping with our lean approach to paper manuals and such, you can find plenty of current info on the preamp controls in section 2.2 of our online documentation which can be found via the link below. The controls are fairly straightforward now that we've changed over to the menu driven OLED display.
https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=oled-v25-control-menu (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=oled-v25-control-menu)
Enjoy the LDR300. Give it a good workout. Thanks for participating. And let us all know what you think.
Cheers,
Morten
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Thanks Morten. Looking forward to putting it through its paces.
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First production pics of the LDR300.V25. Internals with rear panel but without the front panel.
(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/LDR300_Internals_TopView_800px.jpg)
(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/LDR300_Internals_wiring.jpg)
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Got it. Sounds fab! Bass is very authoritative. More to come. Stay tuned. 8)
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Will this be the comment/review thread also?
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Will this be the comment/review thread also?
Yes.
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Buffer board is almost as big as preamp board. Bigger than I thought. I don't have that much extra room in my box.
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** Important Message For Tour Group Participants **
Just prior to sending out the tour LDR300 preamp we decided to wire the dual outputs in mixed mode with 1 set of outputs (outer most pair) being buffered and 2nd set of outputs (inner most pair) being passive. Easy enough to do. However, in doing so we overlooked the fact that the buffer would backfeed a brief voltage spike on to the passive output when the buffer gets turned on. The result is a harsh audible POP when the preamp is turned on IF you have it hooked to the passive outputs and IF you have your amp(s) turned on. After looking into this we've determined that there's nothing we can do in the firmware to fix this. To fix this would require a modest hardware change in the design of the V25 preamp controller board. After considering this we've decided NOT to make that change to the V25 design and to only wire the LD300's outputs to the buffered output going forward. Not unreasonable given that the LDR300 is a buffered/active preamp and was never intended to be a passive preamp.
In designing the solid state buffer for the LDR300 it's fair to say that a LOT of work went into the protection circuit/logic/controls of the buffer to avoid bumps and pops during power turn-on and turn-off. Rightly so. However, we never really looked at what the buffer side might be doing to the unbuffered passive output for the simple reason we weren't focused on that - the LDR300 was to be operated as a buffered preamp, not a passive preamp.
You can still use the tour LDR300 in passive mode by connecting to the inside set of outputs but beware that you'll get a nice big pop out of your speakers if you have your amps on when you turn on the preamp. There are no pops when connected to the outside pair of buffered outputs.
A few of the early production LDR300.V25's already shipped were wired similarly in dual mode. We are discontinuing that. Going forward both outputs will be buffered.
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Thank you for the heads up. I'll only use the buffered outputs. I never know when the power may go off/on in my neighborhood.
If the outputs aren't labeled on the tour model (I think you mentioned they wouldn't be), would you mind posting a photo of the rear panel indicating which output is which, please?
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Thank you for the heads up. I'll only use the buffered outputs. I never know when the power may go off/on in my neighborhood.
If the outputs aren't labeled on the tour model (I think you mentioned they wouldn't be), would you mind posting a photo of the rear panel indicating which output is which, please?
Use the outer most pair of output jacks. By "outer most" I mean the output jacks at the outer edge of the rear panel. Or....the left most pair of jacks labeled "Out" when viewing the rear panel from the rear.
To be clear, there's no harm in using the other passive output jacks just be mindful of having your amps turned off (or the preamp output disconnected) when you turn on the preamp.
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Konut will be shipping the tour unit on to SFDude on Monday.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) Tubeburner(WA)
4) MttBush (WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) wirenut (OH)
9 ) rustyjefferson (MD)
10) audiogurujax (FL)
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Konut will be shipping the tour unit on to SFDude on Monday.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
It's Monday, Monday,
Gotta get down on Monday. :D
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The tour unit has been sent to SFDude. A few short thoughts today before I submit a more thorough review later this week.
I highly recommend you familiarize yourself with the remote operation found here.
https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=oled-v25-control-menu
It was not intuitive for me.
The unit worked flawlessly with great precision. I was sad to see it go.
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I highly recommend you familiarize yourself with the remote operation found here.
https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=oled-v25-control-menu (https://www.tortugaaudio.com/support/product-documentation/?section=oled-v25-control-menu)
It was not intuitive for me.
I agree with konut that you really really should take a few moments and review the controls structure which is summarized below. It's conceptually very simple once you "get it". But you do have to "get it".
Once you do "get it", it becomes fairly intuitive. The link above will take you to detailed explanations of each control function most of which you don't need to mess with.
In short:
1) You have a menu tree of "Control Menu Items" - the main menu if you will.
2) You scroll up and down this main menu list via the raise/lower button on the remote
3) You select the menu item of interest by pressing the center button on the remote. When you do so you will then see the Control Action display associated with that Menu item.
4) 99% of the time you will spend viewing/using the Volume/Balance/Muting Control Action highlighted in red
5) The Menu button on the remote "escapes" you back out to the main menu
6) You'll spend 100% of your time moving between the Off, Volume and Input menu items. For example to change input, press Menu button to escape out to Volume (display says "Volume"), press down to see "Input", press Enter button to select Input control action display. Then use up/down or left/right buttons to change inputs as desired. For example to turn off preamp, press Menu button to escape out to Volume, press up to see "Off", press Enter button to turn off preamp.
(https://www.tortugaaudio.com/images/OLED_V25_Controls_Rev0-16.png)
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That looks like a map for The Bard's Tale role playing game. :lol:
Going to need a decoder ring to operate the remote. :green:
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Not really. I couldn't find the remote instruction on the Tortuga website initially so I was just trying to wing it. That got me into trouble temporarily. Once I found the instructions everything fell into place. RTFM!
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I agree that the remote is pretty intuitive, with a very short learning curve. I'm not on the tour but I'm finishing up building a balanced preamp with the V25 boards and OLED display and have been using it for a few days now. For daily use, you only use a couple of the menu items anyhow (volume & balance from the starting screen, go down one step to change inputs, and go up to shutdown). I find it much more intuitive and informative than the dual display of the previous setup. The programable input labels with the OLED are also VERY nice.
Mike
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Confession of a Lazy Audiophile
I’m afraid this review will be of limited use to most of you. Why? Because I am lazy. I seldom listen to CDs anymore, probably because my source is not that good. A Sony BDP S580 Blu Ray. Almost exclusively I listen to KNKX FM, Jazz, Blues, and News stereo FM out of Seattle on a Sony XDR-F1HD tuner via a Sweet Spot Reveal Silver. I also listen to their 24 hr music channel Jazz24.org online through an ASUS ChromeBit connected to a Bryston BDA-1, via the USB input, through a no name USB cable. So those were my sources when evaluating the 300. The rest of the system consists of a Minvera SE, which I acquired 2 months ago, via 3 ft of AntiCable, Aether Audio Timepiece Minis, VMPS Super Tweeters, and Aether Audio Black Boxes. To complicate matters I live in a tiny house where my listening room is also my living room which is filled with various components for an impending kitchen remodel (LOTS of stuff). I don’t know if that enhanced or was a detriment to the acoustics of the room. Enough blabber. How did the 300 perform? Outstanding!
When I examined the contents of the box that Morten sent my immediate impression was that I was going to have to pay special attention to not lose the remote. It’s so tiny! Not what I’m used to.
The comparison was to the original Tortuga LDR 1. I acquired the tour unit in 2015. The 300 preserved all of the sonic attributes of the LDR 1 and enhanced the presentation in the following ways. The entire frequency spectrum was more refined. There was an ease to the sound that was less fatiguing. The extreme highs and lows were more defined and extended. On well recorded material I could hear the more body and texture in the double basses(there was some plaster that shook loose in the listening room on the common wall with the kitchen where a brick chimney had been removed) and cymbals were sweeter and less confined. I did pop in a classical CD but all that proved was that the source was substandard. I preferred the Sony FM over the USB. Overnight they play the same material so I was able to compare the 2. and the Sony was outstanding. This perplexed me as the output voltage on the Sony was .7v with an output impedance of 2.2 kohm. In theory the Bryston should have walked all over it as it’s output voltage is north of 2.5v and an output impedance of less than 100 ohms. Go figure.
Comparing the LDR 1 to the 300 it became obvious right away that the 300 was a much more refined experience. The gradation on both volume and balance allowed much finer tuning. Precision is the word that comes to mind. At one point I got into trouble exploring the various menu options and tried to return the unit to stock state. So I pressed the Reset option. Big mistake! It seemed to put the unit into some sort of zombie state. I called Morten in a mild panic. He set me straight and had me run the Cal option instead. This returned everything to normal. He encouraged me to explore the input impedance feature to get the Bryston to sound as good as the Sony. Alas being somewhat gun shy at that point I never did that, but after running the Cal it seemed that the two got closer, but the Sony still sounded better. Had I had the unit a little longer I probably would have delved into it. I should mention that with 3 inputs it was much easier to change sources, what with me having to manually change the single input on the LDR 1. Me being lazy and all, that was a BIG feature.
I really enjoyed my time with the 300 and thank Morten for allowing me to participate on the tour.
OOPS! Forgot to mention, after a period of time there is a turtle that floats across the OLED screen. Cute!
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Morton, can you swap me with MttBush? I moved into a new home and revamping my audio stand. I am setting up this weekend and would like this to play for a week for a fair evaluation. I have the Tortuga LDR3V25 passive, so this will be a great comparison to the LDR300.25. I hope this works out for MttBush too.
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MttBsh here. I have no problem being moved to next in line after SFDude… I'm anxious to hear it after konuts' very positive review.
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If there is any way I could be placed on the standby, PLEASE allow me to try this. I am very interested. Thanks very much.
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Swapping the 3 & 4's spots per Tubeburner's request and MttBush's ok.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) MttBush (WA)
4) Tubeburner(WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) wirenut (OH)
9 ) rustyjefferson (MD)
10) audiogurujax (FL)
Standby
11) paul79
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If there is any way I could be placed on the standby, PLEASE allow me to try this. I am very interested. Thanks very much.
Ok. You're on standby. Please PM me your contact info.
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Confession of a Lazy Audiophile
I’m afraid this review will be of limited use to most of you. Why? Because I am lazy. I seldom listen to CDs anymore, probably because my source is not that good. A Sony BDP S580 Blu Ray. Almost exclusively I listen to KNKX FM, Jazz, Blues, and News stereo FM out of Seattle on a Sony XDR-F1HD tuner via a Sweet Spot Reveal Silver. I also listen to their 24 hr music channel Jazz24.org online through an ASUS ChromeBit connected to a Bryston BDA-1, via the USB input, through a no name USB cable. So those were my sources when evaluating the 300. The rest of the system consists of a Minvera SE, which I acquired 2 months ago, via 3 ft of AntiCable, Aether Audio Timepiece Minis, VMPS Super Tweeters, and Aether Audio Black Boxes. To complicate matters I live in a tiny house where my listening room is also my living room which is filled with various components for an impending kitchen remodel (LOTS of stuff). I don’t know if that enhanced or was a detriment to the acoustics of the room. Enough blabber. How did the 300 perform? Outstanding!
When I examined the contents of the box that Morten sent my immediate impression was that I was going to have to pay special attention to not lose the remote. It’s so tiny! Not what I’m used to.
The comparison was to the original Tortuga LDR 1. I acquired the tour unit in 2015. The 300 preserved all of the sonic attributes of the LDR 1 and enhanced the presentation in the following ways. The entire frequency spectrum was more refined. There was an ease to the sound that was less fatiguing. The extreme highs and lows were more defined and extended. On well recorded material I could hear the more body and texture in the double basses(there was some plaster that shook loose in the listening room on the common wall with the kitchen where a brick chimney had been removed) and cymbals were sweeter and less confined. I did pop in a classical CD but all that proved was that the source was substandard. I preferred the Sony FM over the USB. Overnight they play the same material so I was able to compare the 2. and the Sony was outstanding. This perplexed me as the output voltage on the Sony was .7v with an output impedance of 2.2 kohm. In theory the Bryston should have walked all over it as it’s output voltage is north of 2.5v and an output impedance of less than 100 ohms. Go figure.
Comparing the LDR 1 to the 300 it became obvious right away that the 300 was a much more refined experience. The gradation on both volume and balance allowed much finer tuning. Precision is the word that comes to mind. At one point I got into trouble exploring the various menu options and tried to return the unit to stock state. So I pressed the Reset option. Big mistake! It seemed to put the unit into some sort of zombie state. I called Morten in a mild panic. He set me straight and had me run the Cal option instead. This returned everything to normal. He encouraged me to explore the input impedance feature to get the Bryston to sound as good as the Sony. Alas being somewhat gun shy at that point I never did that, but after running the Cal it seemed that the two got closer, but the Sony still sounded better. Had I had the unit a little longer I probably would have delved into it. I should mention that with 3 inputs it was much easier to change sources, what with me having to manually change the single input on the LDR 1. Me being lazy and all, that was a BIG feature.
I really enjoyed my time with the 300 and thank Morten for allowing me to participate on the tour.
OOPS! Forgot to mention, after a period of time there is a turtle that floats across the OLED screen. Cute!
Thanks for participating and providing your feedback.
And the turtle floating across the OLED screen starts after 15 minutes of no user input and works as a screensaver to avoid burn-in of the display which can happen to OLEDs if the same image is left on for a long time. Alternatively, the user can go to the Display menu and enable/set the Display Timeout feature which will cause the display to turn off after X seconds where X is anywhere from 5 to 99 seconds.
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[SFDude's Basic Review]
Initial impressions of this unit is that it is really transparent. It doesn't impart any sonic signature (or very little of it) from the source components themselves. I used an Arcam CD72 player which is pretty smooth and liquid sounding with good oompth on the bottom end and a non fatiguing sound on the upper end. I also used my microRendu -> Exogal Comet DAC as a source into it as well, which is fairly neutral across the board.
I didn't get an extended listen as I had my parents in town but did get a good solid two days to play around with the remote and functions of the preamp. The menu was was fairly intuitive after fiddling around with it. The OLED display is a great upgrade over the previous version with the dual digit displays! It was also neat to see the turtle scroll right to left on the display after being left alone for a short duration.
I'll have more notes later but I wanted to get some quick impressions in before I ship this unit off later today/tomorrow morning to the next recipient on the Tour!
Additional notes:
- The cable connector from the wall wart to the preamp is a bit sensitive to movement. It causes a sharp crackling noise to the speakers so BECAREFUL when you set it up and do not move it while your power amp is turned on. When you've settled with your final configuration and connections, just don't touch it for fear of moving the power connector around on the preamp.
- This thing is transparent and imparts little to no sound in the signal path (at least to my ears). I plugged in a turntable, CD player and a streamer via my Exogal Comet DAC into it. I normally use the Exogal Comet as a preamp via its analog inputs. There was a definite veil lifted when taking the analog preamp section of the Comet out of the equation, like I could see clearer through the glass after doing a Spring window washing exercise. Cymbals and high hats had a bit more sparkle to them than I normally hear, exhibited as slightly more energy in the sound.
I don't have any additional feedback to put other than to say that the best preamp is no preamp. This thing sounds as if there's no preamp inserted in the signal path in your system. Which is, to say, a very very good thing. It worked well in my system, consisting of: Rega P5 turntable w/Denon DL-A100 cart, Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ phono pre, Arcam CD72 CDP, Sonore microRendu, Exogal Comet DAC/pre, Mivera Takachi B&O 1200AS-based power amp, Spatial M3TS open baffle speakers.
I have another system which I didn't have the time to use the LDR300.V25 in but given that a tube integrated drives that, it'd be a bit of an interesting exercise using the Tortuga into one of its line inputs, just as a litmus test of its transparency!
-dave
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Here are my impressions after spending a week with the wonderful Tortuga LDR300.V25:
4 years ago a friend sent me a DYI version of the Tortuga LDR passive that he built and I was actually shocked by the clarity and wide open soundstage it produced. It was my first experience with a passive preamp and it hasn’t left my system since
When the LDR300.V25 arrived last week I was surprised by how small and lightweight it is compared to my older DYI version, but it’s attractive and takes up very little space, which is great. Like the other reviewers, I too liked the “tortuga” crawling across the front panel display during play.
Although I’ve been using one of the apple remotes for years on my older passive, it took me a little while to familiarize myself with the controls for the V25, but once I got it, it became very easy to use.
So how does it compare to my older version? At first, the differences seemed somewhat marginal, with deeper bass being the noticeable improvement, but the next day, after the V25 had been playing for quite a few hours, I noticed not only the deeper bass but an overall fuller sound within a wider soundstage. While listening to Steven Wilson’s remastered Thick as a Brick by Jethro Tull (an album I’ve listened to more times than I can count since its release in 1972) the music came alive like never before. I’m not sure whether the tour unit is still breaking in or just needed time to warm up after being in transit, but on that second day it really opened up... it was the best my system has ever sounded.
In swapping things around, I found no discernable difference switching to input 3 (buffered) and input 2 (passive). The interconnects I used between my DAC and the V25 already include fully discrete audio buffers, maybe that accounts for my not hearing a difference.
One thing that seemed a bit odd was that the balance between left and right channels really favored the left channel, I had to shift it 50% to the right to get the perfect stereo image. Maybe I didn’t fully understand the balance controls as even at 100% left or right channel there was still sound from both speakers.
When it came time to bid a sad farewell to the V25 and I put my DYI passive back in place, I expected a bigger loss in sound quality than there was… a bit less bass and a just slightly thinner overall sound.
I do wonder why the V25 is only powered by a wall wart connection. It seems to me that, as great as it sounds, it could be taken to even a higher level of refinement with a good quality power cord. In examining Tortuga’s web page I didn’t see an option for an IEC to enable connection via power cord.
In summary, I believe it would be difficult to find a preamp that can equal the beautiful, clear, deep and refined sound that the Tortuga 300.V25 produces, especially for under $2000. Even though my older DYI model comes reasonably close, that extra depth (or, to get technical, "oomph") may be hard to live without once I’ve heard it – I may find myself upgrading to the v25 one day soon.
Thank you Morten for your generosity in letting us listen to this fine preamp in our own systems, and for creating what I consider world class Tortuga components.
My system consists of the following:
Source: Sonore Microrendu
DAC: Schitt Yggdrasil
Preamp: DYI Tortuga LDR passive
Amp: Mivera Audio Icepower 1200AS2
Speakers: Cain & Cain Abbys + Fostex 900A super tweeters, dual subs
Thanks again!
Matt
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I received the Tortuga LDR300.V25 yesterday. since I own the V25 Passive, I have been looking forward to this demo. I spent some time setting up the impedance settings the same as my V25 for direct comparison. If you have not experienced the wonderful change the impedance makes, then you need one of these in your audio arsenal. My initial impressions is this is a very nice sounding preamp, the notes have more weight/dynamics and I am getting very nice nuances around the notes. Soundstage is large like the V25, the bass has a little more kick. The preamp is dead quiet and I notice every note, not that they stand out, but they have a subtle nuance I didn't notice before. My wife noticed too. So more to come later. :)
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Hi Matt,
Thank you for participating in the tour and taking the time to post your thoughts. A couple of comments....
One thing that seemed a bit odd was that the balance between left and right channels really favored the left channel, I had to shift it 50% to the right to get the perfect stereo image. Maybe I didn’t fully understand the balance controls as even at 100% left or right channel there was still sound from both speakers.
If the channel balance has drifted this noticeably then I recommend the next tour participant run the preamp through a calibration cycle - takes less than 10 minutes. Channel imbalance is sure sign that at least one LDR has shifted its performance curve after initial break-in. Unless that LDR has gone totally out of spec, running cal will center the channel balance again.
I do wonder why the V25 is only powered by a wall wart connection. It seems to me that, as great as it sounds, it could be taken to even a higher level of refinement with a good quality power cord. In examining Tortuga’s web page I didn’t see an option for an IEC to enable connection via power cord.
Given the very low current demand of the LDR300's active buffer stage (probably no more than 20-30 milliamps steady state) I decided to keep the same external DC power supply used by the LDR3.V25 passive preamp. Going with IEC/AC mains and internal transformer/rectifier/filter caps etc. would not have fit within the same enclosure making the LDR300 way more costly to build. We opted instead to go with an internal Belleson SuperRegulator (DC-DC converter) for powering the output buffer. The Belleson has a -110 dB noise reduction spec. I would argue that going with a more high performance external DC supply would have only marginal benefits that I doubt would be discernable in terms of subjective sound quality. But I can't prove that.
Cheers,
Morten :thumb:
Here are my impressions after spending a week with the wonderful Tortuga LDR300.V25:
4 years ago a friend sent me a DYI version of the Tortuga LDR passive that he built and I was actually shocked by the clarity and wide open soundstage it produced. It was my first experience with a passive preamp and it hasn’t left my system since
When the LDR300.V25 arrived last week I was surprised by how small and lightweight it is compared to my older DYI version, but it’s attractive and takes up very little space, which is great. Like the other reviewers, I too liked the “tortuga” crawling across the front panel display during play.
Although I’ve been using one of the apple remotes for years on my older passive, it took me a little while to familiarize myself with the controls for the V25, but once I got it, it became very easy to use.
So how does it compare to my older version? At first, the differences seemed somewhat marginal, with deeper bass being the noticeable improvement, but the next day, after the V25 had been playing for quite a few hours, I noticed not only the deeper bass but an overall fuller sound within a wider soundstage. While listening to Steven Wilson’s remastered Thick as a Brick by Jethro Tull (an album I’ve listened to more times than I can count since its release in 1972) the music came alive like never before. I’m not sure whether the tour unit is still breaking in or just needed time to warm up after being in transit, but on that second day it really opened up... it was the best my system has ever sounded.
In swapping things around, I found no discernable difference switching to input 3 (buffered) and input 2 (passive). The interconnects I used between my DAC and the V25 already include fully discrete audio buffers, maybe that accounts for my not hearing a difference.
One thing that seemed a bit odd was that the balance between left and right channels really favored the left channel, I had to shift it 50% to the right to get the perfect stereo image. Maybe I didn’t fully understand the balance controls as even at 100% left or right channel there was still sound from both speakers.
When it came time to bid a sad farewell to the V25 and I put my DYI passive back in place, I expected a bigger loss in sound quality than there was… a bit less bass and a just slightly thinner overall sound.
I do wonder why the V25 is only powered by a wall wart connection. It seems to me that, as great as it sounds, it could be taken to even a higher level of refinement with a good quality power cord. In examining Tortuga’s web page I didn’t see an option for an IEC to enable connection via power cord.
In summary, I believe it would be difficult to find a preamp that can equal the beautiful, clear, deep and refined sound that the Tortuga 300.V25 produces, especially for under $2000. Even though my older DYI model comes reasonably close, that extra depth (or, to get technical, "oomph") may be hard to live without once I’ve heard it – I may find myself upgrading to the v25 one day soon.
Thank you Morten for your generosity in letting us listen to this fine preamp in our own systems, and for creating what I consider world class Tortuga components.
My system consists of the following:
Source: Sonore Microrendu
DAC: Schitt Yggdrasil
Preamp: DYI Tortuga LDR passive
Amp: Mivera Audio Icepower 1200AS2
Speakers: Cain & Cain Abbys + Fostex 900A super tweeters, dual subs
Thanks again!
Matt
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If the channel balance has drifted this noticeably then I recommend the next tour participant run the preamp through a calibration cycle - takes less than 10 minutes. Channel imbalance is sure sign that at least one LDR has shifted its performance curve after initial break-in. Unless that LDR has gone totally out of spec, running cal will center the channel balance again.
The first thing I did when receiving the tour preamp is set the impedance I prefer and run calibrations. The Tortuga does take a little time for set up, but worth it for the result. I am enjoying this preamp. :D
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Hi all,
Regarding the wall wort power source. Try using a 12v battery. It's simple to assemble and takes the performance of the LDR controllers to another level.
You'll need a 2.1 mm inside diameter connector matching that from the wall wort. Use a long enough connector cable to allow you to locate the battery in a convenient corner. At the battery end of the cable, you can use conventional spring loaded terminal clamps or the threaded connector terminal if available.
I purchased a very large Optima 12v deep cycle marine battery which uses sealed spiral cells. I like the idea of the sealed cells since it is located indoors.
You'll need a small trickle charger, the smaller the better. I got a "smart" charger unit that automatically starts charging when the battery charge drops to the low 90% range (meaning less than 10% discharged) and avoids overcharging the battery. I've never heard any sonic difference with the charger active vs. not. You'll need to attach the charger to the battery. I use terminal clamps for the charger.
Before you plug in the 12v battery source to you Tortuga, confirm that the polarity of the connector is the same as from the wall wort. A small voltage difference doesn't bother my Tortugas. I use an LDRxB and LDR1B powered from the same battery. Fully charged, the battery voltage measures in the upper end of 13v.
Sonically, the battery power supply provides a lower noise floor, wider dynamics, and better instrumental focus. It effectivey disconnects the Tortugas from the power mains.
Best,
Robert
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The LDR300.V25 is off to Ern Dog.
I own the LDR3.V25 Passive and I was happy to be part of this tour. The LDR300.V25 is an active preamp in comparison and the differences were subtle in system, but in a good kind of way. I feel there are a little more dynamics and a nice sparkle to the notes. The passive is clear, clean and very musical. I could live with either the passive or the active. Now that the active is gone, i put my passive back into my system and the passive is very good. So in conclusion, I like them both, but decided to order the LDR300.V25.
Source: Music server streaming Tidal or Flac Files
Dac: Musical Paradise MP-D2 4497, Mundorf Caps/Tube upgrades
Preamp: Tortuga LDR3.V25
Amps: Lumley Reference 120 monos
Speakers: Von Schweikert VR7 HSE
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Any chance I can sign up to be on the tour of this preamp?
I know I'm late to the party...I live in the Seattle area, so I appreciate that I missed the opportunity early in the tour schedule
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Any chance I can sign up to be on the tour of this preamp?
I know I'm late to the party...I live in the Seattle area, so I appreciate that I missed the opportunity early in the tour schedule
Thanks for your interest. Let's see where things stand at the end of the current tour list. Everyone on the current list have waited patiently for their turn so I'm not going to add/insert anyone at this point.
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Tour unit is with Ern Dog this week with ssglx up next.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) MttBush (WA)
4) Tubeburner(WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) wirenut (OH)
9 ) rustyjefferson (MD)
10) audiogurujax (FL)
Standby
11) paul79
12) Naimnut
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Thanks for adding me to the standby list. BTW, I'm not in a hurry. The unit will replace a Naim 82/hicap in my system, between a Naim CD3.5 cd player and LP12/ittok/dynavector 17D3 into Linto and an Innersounds Electrostatic amplifier driving Quad ESL63s.
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Hi All,
This is a note to everyone on the LDR300 tour especially for Ern Dog and for those that have yet to get their turn in the barrel with this preamp. I will send you all a PM referring to this note just so you all get this.
It turns out we messed up a bit with the impedance setting for the tour unit and several other units we already shipped. In short, the effective impedance setting is too low notwithstanding that it's set at 20k. When placed in parallel with other fixed resistors within the buffer, the resulting lower impedance will most likely suck out some of the midrange rendering the sound a bit flat depending on your source.
I highly recommend setting the impedance of the tour unit up to say 70k.
Ern Dog, since you have the tour unit currently I suggest you do this immediately. Go down the menu list until you get to Imped. Select Imped. Then use the raise button to go to impedance setting #2 which is probably set to Off. Use the right/left buttons to increase the impedance level to 70. Then press Enter to start the cal cycle for the new impedance level. Once the cal cycle is done, run cal a second time by going down to the Cal menu, and then press the right button 3 times to start another Cal cycle at the 70k level. After the 2nd pass through cal at 70k it will be good to go.
I think you'll find the sound improved at the higher impedance setting.
Happy listening!
Morten
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Will do. Thanks Morten
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I had the impedance set at 74,000 and it sounded good there.
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I had the impedance set at 74,000 and it sounded good there.
Good! You're familiarity with the adjustable impedance feature proved helpful.
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I just reset the impedance to 70k and wow what a nice improvement! It’s got more meat on the bones now.
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You can add difference impedance values and switch impedance while listening. You might try some higher values in other positions. The impedance is a nice tweak and makes for a very enjoyable listening experience.
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I just reset the impedance to 70k and wow what a nice improvement! It’s got more meat on the bones now.
Good news! Thanks for making the change and confirming the improvement. It's an interesting example of how too low a bridging impedance can suck the life out of the music. I hadn't thought that the adjustable impedance feature would be relevant to the LDR300 given that it's a buffered (active) preamp but it clearly made it possible to overcome this problem. In future builds we'll be omitting the resistors that pulled down the impedance such that the default 20k impedance setting should be more than adequate for excellent performance.
Cheers,
Morten :thumb:
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Hi All,
A brief housekeeping update on the tour.
Ern Dog will be sending the tour unit on to ssglx in Colorado next.
Wirenut has dropped out due to his system being unavailable. Paul79 from Oklahama will be taking his place.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) MttBush (WA)
4) Tubeburner(WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) wirenut (OH)
8 ) paul79 (OK)
9 ) rustyjefferson (MD)
10) audiogurujax (FL)
Standby
11) Naimnut
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I thoroughly enjoyed my short time with this preamp. Thanks Morten for setting this tour up for us. I shipped the unit off to ssglx yesterday. Here's my review:
Cons:
- Using the Apple remote was wreaking havoc on my Apple tv because controlling the preamp also controls the apple tv at the same time.
- The cheap wall wart didn't instill confidence
- Having to calibrate after making changes was a pain
- The wait time for a calibration was too long
- There is a learning curve to learn how to operate the unit but it didn't take long and was easy after learning.
- Requires careful system matching. It wasn't a good match with my Border Patrol SET 8 wpc amp
Pros:
- I liked the balance control feature
- I liked the price of $1500
- The sound was excellent
I was off to a rough start because after setting it up I only could hear the right channel, but was able to recover after a reset and 3 calibrations. But even after that the Rt side was louder than left and needed to adjust the balance to +20 left side to balance the sound. After all that I thought the sound was nothing special. I was not impressed with the mids- they sounded too sterile. I couldn't wait to remove the preamp from my system . I was impressed with the bass though- very full and deep and articulate. Then Morten sent the message about adjusting the impedance to 70k. This adjustment totally transformed the unit. The mids and highs sounded organic and involving and the soundstage expanded. There was more meat on the bone now. I really enjoyed it and the bass was so powerful that I turned my subs off. The sound I was hearing was Superb and it was easy to get lost in the music!
I bumped into system mis-matching with my 8 wpc SET amp. There were many songs that I wanted to turn the volume up louder but I already had the volume maxed out at 100. My system really requires a stout active preamp.
Overall, I was very impressed with the sound of this unit.
Cheers,
Ernie
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I thoroughly enjoyed my short time with this preamp. Thanks Morten for setting this tour up for us. I shipped the unit off to ssglx yesterday. Here's my review:
Thanks for participating and taking the time to post your review. I don't usual make detailed comments on a users review but I thought readers would benefit from some additional information and perspective.
Cons:
- Using the Apple remote was wreaking havoc on my Apple tv because controlling the preamp also controls the apple tv at the same time.
I personally have an Apple TV device that uses the same model of Apple remote. There's a straightforward but easily overlooked solution to this because Apple does not make it obvious. The Apple TV will respond to any Apple remote even though each Apple remote has a unique ID from 0 to 255 (256 possible IDs). To get the Apple TV to respond to only a specific remote (and ignore others) you have to pair the Apple TV with that remote. Once that's done the Apple TV will mostly ignore the Apple remote used by the Tortuga preamp.
Cons
- The cheap wall wart didn't instill confidence
I get that a lot. What's not obvious is the cheap wall wart is actually a linear regulated unit with surprisingly decent performance. It's only rated at 500 ma and is lightly loaded so we aren't asking much of it. More importantly the LDR300 utilizes a pricey Belleson SuperRegulator internally which has a -110 dB noise suppression spec which I would submit meets or beats most any low voltage and low current power supply out there. The unit is dead quiet (at least when running in our rigs here).
Cons
- Having to calibrate after making changes was a pain
- The wait time for a calibration was too long
Keep in mind that in normal use there's really not much point in changing the input impedance of the LDR300. As Ernie noted, we've pretty much determined that the LDR300 needs to run higher (75K) than our passive preamps which usually perform well at 20k. It's an unusual feature altogether and is there solely to allow exploring performance optimization.
A typical calibration cycle takes 5-10 minutes. During that cycle it calibrates over 400 separate attenuation points which at 10 minutes is only 1.5 seconds per calibration step - fairly fast. But yes, 10 minutes is a PITA.
[size=78%]Con[/size]
- There is a learning curve to learn how to operate the unit but it didn't take long and was easy after learning.
The Tortuga preamps are light on conventional controls like knobs and switches and long on a visual menu driven control scheme. As Ernie noted, it's a relatively brief learning curve.
Con
- Requires careful system matching. It wasn't a good match with my Border Patrol SET 8 wpc amp
Ernie ran out of volume headroom using the unity gain preamp with a relatively low wattage tube amp. This can happen especially if the low wattage tube amp is paired with less than super high efficiency speakers. Ironically we shared a room at RMAF 2 years in a row with Border Patrol and VOLTI with our unity gain passive preamp. At these shows we had no trouble shaking the room and annoying our neighbors with the same amp Ernie has but the speakers had an efficiency of 100 db!! The Border Patrol SET 8 watt amp is an excellent amp by the way. As it turns out Ernie's situation is probably THE ONLY matching issue for the LDR300. With higher power tube amps, and nearly every solid state amp, you'll likely have plenty of volume headroom.
Pros:
- I liked the balance control feature
- I liked the price of $1500
- The sound was excellent
I was off to a rough start because after setting it up I only could hear the right channel, but was able to recover after a reset and 3 calibrations. But even after that the Rt side was louder than left and needed to adjust the balance to +20 left side to balance the sound. After all that I thought the sound was nothing special. I was not impressed with the mids- they sounded too sterile. I couldn't wait to remove the preamp from my system . I was impressed with the bass though- very full and deep and articulate. Then Morten sent the message about adjusting the impedance to 70k. This adjustment totally transformed the unit. The mids and highs sounded organic and involving and the soundstage expanded. There was more meat on the bone now. I really enjoyed it and the bass was so powerful that I turned my subs off. The sound I was hearing was Superb and it was easy to get lost in the music!
I bumped into system mis-matching with my 8 wpc SET amp. There were many songs that I wanted to turn the volume up louder but I already had the volume maxed out at 100. My system really requires a stout active preamp.
Overall, I was very impressed with the sound of this unit.
Cheers,
Ernie
As Ernie says, the sound is indeed excellent and as high performance audio gear goes, the price is within reason. :thumb:
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"Keep in mind that in normal use there's really not much point in changing the input impedance of the LDR300. As Ernie noted, we've pretty much determined that the LDR300 needs to run higher (75K) than our passive preamps which usually perform well at 20k'
So Morten, I take it the impedance adjustment to 75K resulting in the "total transformation" that Ern Dog describes would apply only to the active stage which is input 3 on the LDE300.V25 we demo'd… is that correct? it wouldn't improve the sound through passive inputs 1 and 2?
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"Keep in mind that in normal use there's really not much point in changing the input impedance of the LDR300. As Ernie noted, we've pretty much determined that the LDR300 needs to run higher (75K) than our passive preamps which usually perform well at 20k'
So Morten, I take it the impedance adjustment to 75K resulting in the "total transformation" that Ern Dog describes would apply only to the active stage which is input 3 on the LDE300.V25 we demo'd… is that correct? it wouldn't improve the sound through passive inputs 1 and 2?
Not correct! Some key points of clarification...
First, the input impedance setting applies to all the inputs and not to any individual input. This is true of all Tortuga Audio preamps including the LDR300.
Secondly, the tour unit is unique in one regard insofar as the dual outputs are wired differently. The outer most output (nearest the left edge of rear panel as you face the rear panel) is the buffered output. The innermost output is passive only and bypasses the buffer. In production units both outputs are buffered and are identical (wired in parallel).
FAIR WARNING - If you elect to connect to the passive output on the tour unit, do so only after the preamp has been powered up. Otherwise you'll get a rather loud pop when it powers up. This doesn't happen on the buffered output.
Third, the sound improvement from changing impedance from 20k to 75k is probably only relevant to the buffered output.
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Well, due to my shift schedule I only had time to listen for one evening before sending it on to TJHUB, but I do have a few observations to share.
I have currently two pre-amps, a Tortuga LDRx passive and an Audio Electronics (cary audio) AE-3, and I love them both.
The rest of my system consists of:
AppleTV (160 gb)
Musical Fidelity V-90 dac
Monarchy SM-70 Pro (24 w/ch)
Soliloquy 5.0i monitors, sitting on #2 Vibrapods (a wonderful match)
When I received the unit the balance was adjusted way to the left, and this was required to center the image. A recalibration didn't fix it, and it was worse at higher impedances. The fidelity seemed fine though so I carried on with the session.
I should state at the outset that I tried other passives (pot-in-a-box and a TVC) in my system before settling on the Tortuga . The Tortuga LDR to me seemed perfect in my system. Transparent, robust, clean, fleshy and exciting. I tried this buffered version really out of curiosity, and the thought that possibly I was missing something.
From this test I'd say my system doesn't need the buffer stage. I didn't identify much difference except that the buffered version might be a bit less transparent than my LDRx. Not surprising considering the additional circuitry.
I wholeheartedly recommend Tortuga preamps to everyone, but possibly try out the fully passive unit first before jumping to the more complex buffered version.
I did however like the new display and menu. Is that possibly a conversion I could do to my LDRx at home?
Chris
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Hi All,
I've been made aware that the LDR300 tour unit has developed a fairly severe channel imbalance so I've asked TJHUB to send the tour unit back to me for repair. I will correct the imbalance problem, update the firmware including setting the default input impedance to 75k and get it back to Terry ASAP so the tour can continue onwards and the LDR300 can shine.
A tour like this can stress the equipment due to multiple shipments/vibration etc so it can be an effective physical stress test in addition to being a great way to check out new gear and get feedback. Plus the tour unit was the last of the development prototype hardware so it had gone through a number of tweaks and changes before heading out on the tour all of which takes a toll.
As a general comment, I've spent the past few weeks with a production version of the LDR300 in my home rig and find that it's grown on me. The clarity, detail and dynamics are really quite good. Sure, I make and sell this gear so I'm naturally biased but I'm first and foremost an audio user and listener and the way I'm personally wired I could not (would not) promote something I don't get personal satisfaction from using myself.
Back soon! :thumb:
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) MttBush (WA)
4) Tubeburner(WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) wirenut (OH)
8 ) paul79 (OK)
9 ) rustyjefferson (MD)
10) audiogurujax (FL)
Standby
11) Naimnut
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Hi All,
The tour unit arrived back in the shop today for a quick diagnostic and tuneup. As you you may recall the tour preamp developed a significant channel imbalance. That turned out to a bad connection on one of the JFET output modules which we then swapped out and that took care of the problem. Also gave the unit a firmware update which forced the default #1 impedance setting to be 75k going forward. Did a 30 minute listening test and I have to say travel suits this preamp because it's sounding better as the miles pile up.
The tour unit uses the RevA buffer board. We've already updated that board design with the RevB version which does away with the plug-in output buffer module. It may not be as flexible but the RevB will be more reliable.
The tour unit will be back out on the road tomorrow ready, willing and able.
Back on the road again! :thumb:
Morten
____________________
Below is the updated tour status. The unit is heading for TJHUB in Wisconsin next. We've had a dropout and an addition so we have 4 to go.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) MttBush (WA)
4) Tubeburner(WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) paul79 (OK)
9) Naimnut
10) audiogurujax (FL)
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Thank you for the update. I am excited!
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Morten: I wanted to let you know the tour unit arrived today and seems to be functionally perfect. My intention was to listen until Wednesday or Thursday and ship it off to the next participant. I’m sorry to say that is now not going to happen. Based on the complexity of the changes I’m hearing, I’m going to keep it for the full week I’m allowed. The differences in sound are interesting.
One thing I’m struggling with is more bass than I’d like. FYI, I’m VERY picky about sound (bass being very critical), and what I had prior to installing the LDR300 was as close to perfect as I’ve ever had. The bass still has decent definition, but sounds too heavy. So I’m wondering if you might suggest trying a different impedance setting? I run 5k or 10k on my LDR3v2. I don’t want to make changes without advise as this is a slightly different animal.
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Morten: I wanted to let you know the tour unit arrived today and seems to be functionally perfect. My intention was to listen until Wednesday or Thursday and ship it off to the next participant. I’m sorry to say that is now not going to happen. Based on the complexity of the changes I’m hearing, I’m going to keep it for the full week I’m allowed. The differences in sound are interesting.
One thing I’m struggling with is more bass than I’d like. FYI, I’m VERY picky about sound (bass being very critical), and what I had prior to installing the LDR300 was as close to perfect as I’ve ever had. The bass still has decent definition, but sounds too heavy. So I’m wondering if you might suggest trying a different impedance setting? I run 5k or 10k on my LDR3v2. I don’t want to make changes without advise as this is a slightly different animal.
Our LDR preamps have always had strong bass but can't say I've noticed the LDR300 being any different in that regards but not surprising that performance may differ depending on synergies with each system. I think it's highly unlikely that changing the impedance will alter this. Unlike the LDR3.V2/V25 passives, the LDR300 will suffer from lowering the impedance down into the 5-10k range and will likely lose a tremendous amount of midrange if you go that low. This was the case at the earlier default 20k. At the now default 75k the LDR300 really opens up. You're no doubt noticing the differences between the LDR3 passive and the LDR300 buffer/active. On the one hand they're very similar yet very different. See if it doesn't grow on ya. Enjoy!
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One thing I’m struggling with is more bass than I’d like. FYI, I’m VERY picky about sound (bass being very critical), and what I had prior to installing the LDR300 was as close to perfect as I’ve ever had. The bass still has decent definition, but sounds too heavy.
I followed up with Terry (TJHUB) on the bass sounding too heavy. Something about that didn't sound right to me (pun intended!!). After a brief phone chat it became clear that the unit had switched its impedance setting away from the default 75k for the LDR300 (it had reverted to 20k which is the normal default for our passive preamps). This confused the preamp since it was being told it was set at 20k when the attenuation table was actually created for 75k. I believe that made for some odd behavior and overly heavy bass. With the unit set back at 75k and run through calibration, the "too heavy bass" problem went away and the preamp is now behaving/sounding normal.
I tweaked the firmware to make sure the default 75k level associated with impedance setting #1 can't inadvertently be changed or revert to 20k. I've sent a firmware update file to Terry that addresses that. Problem solved. :thumb:
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Below is the updated tour status. TJHUB will be shipping the unit off to paul79 next week.
1) konut (WA)
2) SFDude (WA)
3) MttBush (WA)
4) Tubeburner(WA)
5) Ern Dog (OR)
6) ssglx (CO)
7) TJHUB (WI)
8 ) paul79 (OK)
9) Naimnut
10) audiogurujax (FL)
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Can we pump the brakes a bit, and ship it to me on the 26th? I will be back home then and thereafter. Thank you!!!!!!!
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Can we pump the brakes a bit, and ship it to me on the 26th? I will be back home then and thereafter. Thank you!!!!!!!
Sure. Terry, please go ahead on hold on to the tour buffer until the 26th. Enjoy!
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Just so everyone knows, I had it stuck in my head that I was to ship the unit to Paul on the 28th, so that's what I did. I haven't been around much, so I never double checked until I shipped the preamp today. Sorry! I PM'd Paul the tracking number.
So the review...or not as it may be...
My setup:
Source: Single PC, JPLAY Femto, running on Windows Server 2016 with lots of tweaks
DDC: Schitt Eitr USB to SPDIF converter
DAC: Eastern Electric DAC Plus (Burson V5 opamps, no tube)
Preamp: Tortuga LDR3.v2
Amp: Mivera Audio ICE Edge
Speakers: Saulk HT3
I want to first say that prior to the tour preamp, I think my current setup has the PERFECT (or read best I've EVER had) sound for sound stage, imaging, detail, sense of depth and dimension, frequency response, clarity, tone and texture. I've been working on this for many years, and do not want to make any changes (first time ever). I have owned my Tortuga LDR3.v2 since they became available, and loved it from the first listen. I do power it with a 12v linear power supply, but I can't say for certain it sounds better than the supplied wall-wort supply.
My review is going to be near useless for most. Why? Basically the LDR300 didn't work for me. This isn't because there was anything wrong with the LDR300, it's because it turns out my DAC doesn't seem compatible with it.
Since owning my LDR3.v2, I have tried many impedance settings on the unit. I DO NOT understand this stuff, but I do know what sounds best to me. My DAC doesn't sound right at anything above 10-15k on the impedance setting. Even at the default of 20k, my DAC starts to sound closed in, less dynamic, less defined bass, and reduced treble extension. Any higher and things just get worse; even the sound stage completely collapses at 60k and above. The sweet spot is 5-10k for me, and even 1k sounds fine except that things seem to lean up just a bit. But at 5-10k, I have super clean, tonally rich sound.
My DAC's preferred 5-10k impedance does NOT work well with LDR300 in that the LDR300 likes higher, or more specifically 75k, impedance setting. This of course makes my DAC sound bad as stated above. I did try lower impedance settings, but things got thin and far from what I'm used to hearing. So not a fault of anything wrong, but more of an incompatibility.
That said, I was also excited to get my hands on a unit with the new OLED display. While my dual segmented display is functional, the YouTube video I saw of the new OLED display made me want one. After using one, I'd really like to have one, but the cost is just too much to justify. I also have the idea I might be going balanced in the future if and when I move to a newer DAC. So too many variables, and too much cost for now. Still, the new display is VERY nice!
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Bump
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Bump
I've continued to tweak the LDR300 design such that it was time to update the circuit board so I called back the tour unit. The tour unit had also developed a problem that was generating hum. I traced that to a bad JFET module which has since been redesigned. New blank boards arrived today so by end of this week I should have a good idea how the updated LDR300 performs and if all goes well hope to have the updated tour unit back on the road soon thereafter to finish up its tour.
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Dear Tortuga -
I know my name is somewhere on the list to receive the tour unit eventually, but the purpose of this short post is to simply say my life is a bit in chaos lately. And the chaos will continue for several months, as I prepare for an impending retirement and relocation. All these happenings have meant that my time to log onto this forum is greatly reduced, so if I'm unresponsive to a post, please accept my apologies for any inconvenience I might cause.
Best regards,
Mark/Markus
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The LDR300 has has undergone a significant upgrade and in my opinion and that of a few early adopters has gone from good to extraordinary.
As a result of this design upgrade I'd halted the original tour (Part I) around 2/3'rds of the way through and called back the preamp while we worked our way through the updated design process. Rather than just continue with the last 3 participants, I'd like to open up the tour again, add another 7 or so participants and have at it with the LDR300 Tour - Part II.
Anyone interested in participating in Part II please respond to this thread or PM me.
Here's the participant list starting with the last 3 people from Part I.
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) Naimnut
3) audiogurujax (FL)
4)
5)
6)
7)
Eight)
9)
10)
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Pls ad me to this list. I am curious as to the changes this buffer will make.
glynnw
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Pls ad me to this list. I am curious as to the changes this buffer will make.
glynnw
Done!
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) Naimnut
3) audiogurujax (FL)
4) glynnw
5)
6)
7)
Eight)
9)
10)
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I would love to be on the list please, as I missed being on the list the first tour..!!
I'm honestly looking to put some sort of remote volume control in my system , Currently using the OPPO 205 (dac) for remote volume control..
My System ::
Denon dp49L ( TT ) Otrafon 2m blue - not used much compared to the Streamer
Decware ZP3 (phono preamp)
Apple TV4 (streamer) - looking to upgrade maybe Innuos, Salk, Bryston, Wyred 4 sound...
Oppo 205 ( DAC - CDP ) - may upgrade to a BoarderPatrol DAC..
Decware CSP3 (preamp/headphone amp) - no remote volume but works great as a glorified Tube Buffer for the Oppo 205
Decware ZMA ( 35 watt PP amp )
Tekton Double Impact SE ( Full range speakers, estimated 96db )
Tekton Cinema ( 18' subwoofer )
Cullen Cable (Mil. spec. silver coated copper) Full loom
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Count me in as well... I’d love to hear it as a potential second signal pathway I’m doing.
(IN)
Let me know what info you need.
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Thanks for signing up guys. Filling up! :thumb:
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) Naimnut
3) audiogurujax (FL)
4) glynnw
5) Delta77
6) jriggy
7)
Eight)
9)
10)
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How many inputs does the LDR300.V25 have?
Never mind, I did this little thing called research and found it has three inputs. :duh:
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List update. 3 to go. :thumb:
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) Naimnut
3) audiogurujax (FL)
4) glynnw
5) Delta77
6) jriggy
7) GentleBender
Eight)
9)
10)
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Count me in
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Love to compare it to wrapspeed LDR preamp
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List update. 2 to go. :thumb:
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) Naimnut
3) audiogurujax (FL)
4) glynnw
5) Delta77
6) jriggy
7) GentleBender
Eight) teetee
9)
10)
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Will you be doing in order of signup or a ‘geogrphical shipping path’ across the country??
Whichever, but shipping might be lower for most if doing the latter.
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Thanks for continuing to include me on the tour list - However, I've decided to explore options in a different direction at this time, so I will not need to audition your beautiful preamp. You can remove my name from the list...
Best regards,
Markus
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Will you be doing in order of signup or a ‘geogrphical shipping path’ across the country??
Whichever, but shipping might be lower for most if doing the latter.
Typically the list gets sorted by geographical location before we kick off the tour to minimize shipping costs for all involved. There may be exceptions such as the first 2-3 people who were on the prior tour list will go first regardless of location.
List update. :thumb:
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) audiogurujax (FL)
3) glynnw
4) Delta77
5) jriggy
6) GentleBender
7) teetee
8
9)
10)
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I'm going to be in the market. I'm in St. Louis if the tour is still going for a while. I'm gone last week of May and 1st week of June but other than that....
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I'm going to be in the market. I'm in St. Louis if the tour is still going for a while. I'm gone last week of May and 1st week of June but other than that....
Added!
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) audiogurujax (FL)
3) glynnw
4) Delta77
5) jriggy
6) GentleBender
7) teetee
8] bpape
9)
10
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An update on the tour timing.
Waiting on one last bit of new hardware to kick off the tour Part II.
We've recently changed to a different model Cardas RCA jack. This jack model is designed to allow direct mounting of the RCA jack to a vertical circuit board which in turn also connects directly to the the preamp LDR and buffer circuit boards. This eliminates all point-to-point hand wiring of the input and output audio signals and minimizes the audio signal circuit path. Overall a cleaner, neater and higher quality build. We're waiting on those RCA interface boards to arrive from the fabricator. I expect those to arrive in about a week at which point we'll kick off the updated tour.
Cheers,
Morten :thumb:
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:D
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PMs sent to participate in tour II.
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Updated tour list.
We'll be building the tour unit shortly and expect to ship it out to first participant in 2-3 days.
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) audiogurujax (FL)
3) glynnw
4) Delta77
5) jriggy
6) GentleBender
7) teetee
8] bpape
9) mrderrick
10
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Sign me up - PM sent.
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And....we are full up!
1 ) paul79 (OK)
2) audiogurujax (FL)
3) glynnw
4) Delta77
5) jriggy
6) GentleBender
7) teetee
8] bpape
9) mrderrick
10) charmerci
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Well, this is exciting... but I'll have to "forget" it because it takes such a LONG time for these things to come and I'll give myself medical problems if I'm too anxious for too long....!!! 8)
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Well, this is exciting... but I'll have to "forget" it because it takes such a LONG time for these things to come and I'll give myself medical problems if I'm too anxious for too long....!!! 8)
:lol: :lol: :lol: yeah! This one will probably be 20 weeks or so to completion once it starts.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: yeah! This one will probably be 20 weeks or so to completion once it starts.
If every participant kept the unit for no more than 1 week (7 days) and shipped it out on the 8th day and figure on 2 days average for shipping via USPS Priority Post that would be 10 weeks of possession plus 20 days (call it 3 weeks) of shipping/travel time so 13 weeks for 10 participants.
The deal is that nobody keeps the tour unit for more than 1 week. It arrives on a Monday, you ship it out no later than the following Tuesday.
Like you said, 20 weeks. :duh:
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It arrives on a Monday, you ship it out no later than the following Tuesday.
My days off are Thursday and Friday, so I hope not! :)
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An update on the tour timing.
Waiting on one last bit of new hardware to kick off the tour Part II.
We've recently changed to a different model Cardas RCA jack. This jack model is designed to allow direct mounting of the RCA jack to a vertical circuit board which in turn also connects directly to the the preamp LDR and buffer circuit boards. This eliminates all point-to-point hand wiring of the input and output audio signals and minimizes the audio signal circuit path. Overall a cleaner, neater and higher quality build. We're waiting on those RCA interface boards to arrive from the fabricator. I expect those to arrive in about a week at which point we'll kick off the updated tour.
Cheers,
Morten :thumb:
Plenty else going, and summer will fly by anyway. It will give something to look forward to, besides yard work, and will be here before we know it! :D
IME audio changes work in seasons anyway. It is indeed a process doing ones due diligence for a system. Took me a year and half to change speakers.
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Plenty else going, and summer will fly by anyway. It will give something to look forward to, besides yard work, and will be here before we know it! :D
IME audio changes work in seasons anyway. It is indeed a process doing ones due diligence for a system. Took me a year and half to change speakers.
What? You mean audio is not your first priority? Then you can be last on the list! :lol:
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What? You mean audio is not your first priority? Then you can be last on the list! :lol:
Now hang on a sec! I obviously meant plenty other system related thing going. :wink:
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....so?
What's the word? Has it gone out yet? :scratch:
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....so?
What's the word? Has it gone out yet? :scratch:
Standby. We've made some product/company decisions this past week that impact this tour as originally conceived. Still sorting that out. Still planning on a tour...only different. More next week.
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This preamp has been discontinued......
https://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/buffered-preamps/ldr300-v25-buffered-preamp/
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No way!
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No way!
Way!
Here's the picture. We are a small design/manufacturer with more ideas and interests than we have resources to pursue. For the past 2 years we've been running down parallel tracks with both tube and solid state buffered preamp variants thinking why not both since they both have merit albeit with their own sound characteristics. As both have continued to evolve it's become more and more apparent that the tube based design has become the more compelling preamp. With everything else we have going on it has become clear that we could only pursue and fully support one active preamp so we decided that the tube preamp would move forward and we would stand down with the solid state design. We also retired our battery power supply which was a fine product but not central to our business plan going forward. Such decisions are never easy and we acknowledge that not everyone will be happy about this.
All that notwithstanding, there will be a buffered preamp and there will be a tour and we're busting our butts getting a reasonably presentable commercial prototype built for the tour. There have been significant design changes lately which take time to work through. One recent key decision was to abandon a high end enclosure in favor of a lower cost solution to keep the final price down and offer a more competitive product. Also, many aspects of the work on the solid state preamp are finding their way into the tube design including both a split voltage power supply and the LSK170 JFET discrete buffer circuit.
More on this as it evolves. Will probably start a separate thread on this topic going forward.
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Any updates on this tour?
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I would be open to a tour stop. Bought an original LDR years ago second hand and love it. I would be ok with being last on the list
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Just a reminder that we put this tour on the back burner after deciding to put the LDR300 solid state buffered preamp on the back burner as well while we finished development and released our LDR3000.V25 Tube Preamp which will take its place on the tour for those still interested. Timing on the tour is entirely dependent on when the new preamp is released which is currently targeted for September.