Something special about fullrange driver !

Guy 13 · « **on:** 30 Sep 2012, 03:12 am »

Hi all Audio Circle members.

Some of you know already that early this year
I went back to my home country Canada
and came back temporally to my wife’s home country Vietnam.

For the moving of all my audio equipment (Rega, GR Research, Niteshade Audio, Sony, Audio Nirvana and more…)

I did all the packing myself.

I have experience with packing from a job I did full time for one year when I was 20 years old.

Well, believe me or not, only one item was damaged in this trip around the world and it was by my own fault.

I have packed one of the two Audio Nirvana 8” full range driver with some foam facing/touching the front of the driver sticky cloth surround and some of the foam is still on the surrounding.

Anyway, I said to myself, I will not throw in the garbage a driver, even if it’s only an entry level driver that I paid at the time 78 USD/pair.

Therefore, I connected them and put on some music and (Lucky me, I was born on a Friday 13) it worked, of course not as good as the first day I bought it, but it’s still very listenable for my 64 years old ears.

I have also re-discovered the beauty of the full range driver.

It has something coaxial, two and three ways speakers don’t have.

To me a French Canadian, the only word that described how that driver performs or his main quality is:
<< Presence >>.

Yes, the highs and the lows are weak compared to other speakers, but even listening to a drum solo play on vinyl, was enjoyable,
I did not miss the deep and high impact drum sound.

Of course, I realize that full range drivers are not for every type of music.
For solo instruments and small orchestra and singer, it’s a good match.

I am sure the Dayton and/or Tang Band have better performance than the entry level Audio Nirvana,
But I have them and their paid for, so might as well enjoy them (In an Open Baffle configuration)
I will not pay several thousand $ $$ for a Lowther or some other German drivers, unless I win 10 millions at the lottery.

By the way, who said Friday 13th was unlucky?
I won last week 47 USD with the Vietnamese lottery.

The other thing I like about the Audio Nirvana, it’s their high efficiency (95db).
I have no problem driving them with my Niteshade Audio NS-10 (10wpc).

That’s all for now.

Thanks for reading me.

Guy 13

(I was really born on a Friday 13th in 1948.)

OzarkTom · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 03:22 am »

With no cross-overs in the signal path, the fullrange driver is so very hard to beat.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 03:33 am »

Its really a pity that the FR have little power to large rooms or hi spl.
I sure the future will show some improvements in this area.
Some Voxativ FRs had a really hi sensitivity as 106 and 108dB.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 03:41 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 30 Sep 2012, 03:33 am

Its really a pity that the FR have little power to large rooms or hi spl.
I sure the future will show some improvements in this area.

Agreed... I am thinking an array of small full range drivers might work well.

Guy, check out Omega's line of full range speakers, they are a good value. The 6" and 8" models with alnico drivers would be a good match for your amp and cover all but the lowest octave.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 03:46 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 30 Sep 2012, 03:41 am

Agreed... I am thinking an array of small full range drivers might work well.

Guy, check out Omega's line of full range speakers, they are a good value. The 6" and 8" models with alnico drivers would be a good match for your amp and cover all but the lowest octave.

I wonder if Omega sells the 8inches alnico driver and plans??

OzarkTom · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 04:12 am »

The Rethm Saadhana's will blast you out in a very large room. Loud enough to make you go deaf.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 04:17 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 30 Sep 2012, 04:12 am

The Rethm Saadhana's will blast you out in a very large room. Loud enough to make you go deaf.

Hi Tom and and all Audio Circle members.

Yes, nice speakers,
but at almost 8,000 USD/pair,
it's definitely not in my price range.
I am more looking for 1,000 USD/pair.

Guy 13

Guy 13 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 12:30 pm »

Hi all Audio Circle members.

I don't like the look of the Omega line of speakers,
I am not saying they are no good, it's just a matter of how they look.

It's like cars, why do you prefer Pontiac over Taurus...
Some times, you cannot explain your preferences.

Guy 13

radarnyc · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 01:41 pm »

The Omega line has changed their look a bit - check 'em out again. Aesthetically, I like the look of Louis' Hoyt Bedford line better. Check those out too.

http://www.hoytbedfordspeakers.com/

doorman · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 03:23 pm »

Quote from: Guy 13 on 30 Sep 2012, 04:17 am

Hi Tom and and all Audio Circle members.

Yes, nice speakers,
but at almost 8,000 USD/pair,
it's definitely not in my price range.
I am more looking for 1,000 USD/pair.

Guy 13

For your budget, DIY may be the answer, if you have the skills & tools.
Something worth looking at would be the wide range of MarkAudio drivers & cabinet plans.
Don

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 03:45 pm »

To work well with wood is need some time experience, I always order boxes to a carpenter.
The Alpair 12P is great, I would love if it had hi sensitivity as 100dB to use a low power tube amp.

P.S.: The Omega Alnico 8 inches would be nice to buy as raw driver as it is 98dB sensitivity and would be great in a big BR box.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 05:31 pm »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 8 Oct 2012, 03:45 pm

To work well with wood is need some time experience, I always order boxes to a carpenter.
The Alpair 12P is great, I would love if it had hi sensitivity as 100dB to use a low power tube amp.

P.S.: The Omega Alnico 8 inches would be nice to buy as raw driver as it is 98dB sensitivity and would be great in a big BR box.

I think those are the drivers with regular motors used in the Hoyt Bedford line. The Alnico 8" models are not on Omega's new website, but I'm pretty sure they are 93 dB.

Agreed on the woodworking.... it looks easy but making a good box is actually not so easy without experience and good tools.

radarnyc · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 05:33 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 8 Oct 2012, 05:31 pm

I think those are the drivers with regular motors used in the Hoyt Bedford line. The Alnico 8" models are not on Omega's new website, but I'm pretty sure they are 93 dB.

The HBs are all 8" drivers but they are not Alnico. I was wondering the same thing about the new Omega line; but it looks like all 8" drivers are "out".

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 06:02 pm »

Seems they are 93 dB indeed. I sorry Omega had suffer this downsize.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Oct 2012, 01:02 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 8 Oct 2012, 03:45 pm

To work well with wood is need some time experience, I always order boxes to a carpenter.
The Alpair 12P is great, I would love if it had hi sensitivity as 100dB to use a low power tube amp.

P.S.: The Omega Alnico 8 inches would be nice to buy as raw driver as it is 98dB sensitivity and would be great in a big BR box.

Hi FULLRANGEMAN and all Audio Circle members.

With time,
my priorities have changed and today,
I don't even consider
or look at any drivers that are less than 93db efficient.

The main reason is:
I have two (Tube) amplifiers one is 2wpc and the other is 10wpc,
therefore I need efficient speakers.

Drivers can be made highly efficient, Eminence as lots of them
and they are made in USA.

In the future, when I have some spare dollars,
I want to experiment again the full range driver adventure.
Dayton, Audio Nirvana, maybe the Tang Band,
but not the Lowther (Way too expensive).

Guy 13

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Oct 2012, 01:15 am »

I also convinced the best way to go tube and SS amps is hi sensitivity speakers, if possible over 100dB.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Oct 2012, 01:39 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 12 Oct 2012, 01:15 am

I also convinced the best way to go tube and SS amps is hi sensitivity speakers, if possible over 100dB.

Hi FULLRANGEMAN and all Audio Circle members.

The choice for 100db drivers is limited.
You have much greater choice and more reasonable prices
with drivers in the range of 95 to 98db.

But of course the higher the better.

Guy 13

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Oct 2012, 01:46 am »

If one could tame the Nirvana 12CF fullrange, it is low priced and offer a 100dB response in a big 5.6 BR box.
In last case lets use a notch filter, patience...

OBS.: The CommonSense site seems down in the last days....

doorman · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Oct 2012, 04:06 am »

Higher sens. is not always better, it's possible to have too much of a good thing!-
Unless the rest of the chain is up to the task, hum/noise issues can be a real problem.
Best
Don

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Oct 2012, 08:49 am »

Yes, system noise/hum is a real challenge to high efficiency systems. I'm a speaker guy, so that's what I system build around and for me 93 dB/w/m is the ideal balance between providing dynamics, limiting noise/hum, and and minimizing coloration (every high efficiency driver I've looked at have colorations). Those colorations vary from horn honk (not an inherent horn problem, but normally just pushing the compression effect too hard), loss of constant directivity (beaming) and don't get me started on whizzer cones, to simply giving up bass. Unfortunately many extended range drivers say "full-range" but they give up 2 or more octaves of bass and/or an octave of treble.

But for all their shortcomings, extended range drivers excell at small ensembles (simple lower volume sound) and the coherency they can provide.

For your budget, I'd be tempted to try the new Omega 3T (start at $500/pair USD) just based on Louis' great workmanship, hard work, integrity, and having heard his stuff 2 product generations ago. Smaller driver - less beaming, 93 dB/w/m, and leaves you enough to buy a nice powered subwoofer (Epik Legend with dual 12 inch opposing sealed woofers, $500/pair) would be my choice. BTW Louis has a Canadian fanboy who developed his current website (Canada is a big place, but maybe he's close by and would offer a listen).