[vrtube]

Hi,

I want to build an efficient bookshelf speaker and the AN Super 8 cast frame looks like a good option (quality vs price).
The minitower at Commonsense Audio do not have great reviews and I was wondering if someone tried other DIY cabinets with good results.
I've looked at many of the free softwares to help in the design but I have no clue if the results will be worth the effort.

Any suggestions for cabinet design or experience with the AN Super 8 Cast?

[planet10]

I had a look at these, they are not all that suited to a BR with a nice alignment. The shape of the alignment kept getting better until i gave up at 8 litres tuned to 110 Hz.  A consequence of the motor needed to get the midband efficiency as high as it is.

One might be able to get some bass out of them with a horn or MLTL but then they would no longer be bookshelves

dave

[FullRangeMan]

Hi,

I want to build an efficient bookshelf speaker and the AN Super 8 cast frame looks like a good option (quality vs price).
The minitower at Commonsense Audio do not have great reviews and I was wondering if someone tried other DIY cabinets with good results.
I've looked at many of the free softwares to help in the design but I have no clue if the results will be worth the effort.

Any suggestions for cabinet design or experience with the AN Super 8 Cast?

THe Nirvana FRs need huge boxes to good bass performance, small enclousures will increase the mid and treble SPL level.
Some tips for inside treatment for BR boxes:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100689.msg1016047#msg1016047

[rjbond3rd]

That particular driver's specs show a Qts of .162 and Vas of 66.5 liters.  Assuming that's correct, the overly strong magnet damps the cone to such a degree that there's just no bass (it's there, but lots of dB down).

Plus when it comes to BR and Vas, just imagine that the Vas is the cabinet size.  66.5 liters is too big for a bookshelf.  For a small-ish BR, look for (a) Qts greater than .3, and (b) a Vas you can live with if it were the cabinet's size (i.e., lower = smaller).

Also, when it comes to bookshelves, 8" is rather large (e.g., you might have to sit way back to get the stereo image, or to deal with possible behaviors such as beaming or rising / hot / peaky treble).  For bookshelf, I'd try to see if there's a 4" or 6" unit which could work.

Hoffman's Iron Law says that between deep bass, cabinet size and efficiency, you can only have two.  That's why high efficiency systems are those insanely huge horn systems with incredible dynamic range, running off a fraction of a watt.  For everything else, physics requires some sacrifice

[vrtube]

Thank you for your information and comments

From the comments I see., it looks like the Super 8 will not be fit for a bookshelf speaker (even if the manufacturer suggest it can be done???)
Is the AN 6.5 doable in a bookshelf (Qts is .210, 32.906 liters) ? Or do I have to look at other manufacturers? Fostex? Any other options?
The important criteria is hi-efficiency because I will drive them with a 6W SET amp.

[JohnR]

Is the AN 6.5 doable in a bookshelf (Qts is .210, 32.906 liters) ?

Hello, could I suggest it may be worth spending a little time to use a box modelling program such as Unibox? It's quite easy and will allow you to explore lots of options. Discussion is good of course but that way you would have basic answers for yourself.

[vrtube]

Hello, could I suggest it may be worth spending a little time to use a box modelling program such as Unibox? It's quite easy and will allow you to explore lots of options. Discussion is good of course but that way you would have basic answers for yourself.

I downloaded Unibox, WinISD, AJ, Spkrwork, and various spreadsheets to try and design a cab. I also took a look at Dominique Petoin's site (French), where there is a lot of very good info. They all offer options, but which one will work best, and why. Only people that built cabs for these drivers know the real results. I admit I would really enjoy to build several enclosures and test different topologies/damping materials, but my time to spend on this project is limited. I work 60+ hours a week and time for hobbies is limited these days
So far, I was not able to find many implementations of the AN 6.5 or 8 in a bookshelf where people commented positively on the cab design. They see the potential with the drivers, but they often tweak the cabinets to get results they like.

Any examples of a winning combo for bookshelfs? By bookshelf, I mean something like the minimonitor 19" x 10.5" x 11.25 "

VRTUBE

 

[rjbond3rd]

Only people that built cabs for these drivers know the real results.

Au contraire, mon ami.  If you have accurate specs, and use one of those programs, it will tell you -accurately- what the bass will be like (when against a wall, as a bookshelf normally would be).  Move it out into the room and the bass will start getting less but that's another topic.

So far, I was not able to find many implementations of the AN 6.5 or 8 in a bookshelf where people commented positively on the cab design.

Ahem. *cough*.  And why is that?  Low Qts for one thing.  Go for a driver with a Qts of .3 or above, and (for a small cab) a small Vas.  The lower the Fs, the deeper the bass.  Put it in a decent box on a shelf against a wall, and you're done.  You may hate the midrange and treble, but box design doesn't involve those.

There are -tons- of drivers which meet these simple requirements.  Don't be discouraged, just look for something that has the specs you need

[planet10]

Or do I have to look at other manufacturers? Fostex? Any other options?

Mark Audio Alpair 12.2p or 10p. Fostex FF165wk.

dave

[wushuliu]

Hi,

I want to build an efficient bookshelf speaker and the AN Super 8 cast frame looks like a good option (quality vs price).
The minitower at Commonsense Audio do not have great reviews and I was wondering if someone tried other DIY cabinets with good results.
I've looked at many of the free softwares to help in the design but I have no clue if the results will be worth the effort.

Any suggestions for cabinet design or experience with the AN Super 8 Cast?

There are reviews and feedback on the Audio Nirvana being just fine in BR. Do your due diligence and research.  I don't have an opinion one way or the other but don't let a few people steer you away; folks have their biases and it's important to make sure to try and get as wide a perspective as possible.

[Guy 13]

Hi,

I want to build an efficient bookshelf speaker and the AN Super 8 cast frame looks like a good option (quality vs price).
The minitower at Commonsense Audio do not have great reviews and I was wondering if someone tried other DIY cabinets with good results.
I've looked at many of the free softwares to help in the design but I have no clue if the results will be worth the effort.

Any suggestions for cabinet design or experience with the AN Super 8 Cast?

Hi vrtube and all Audio Circle members.
I’m almost sure this will not be of great help, but who knows.
I bought five years ago from Common Sense Audio a pair of
Audio Nirvana 8” FR driver, but the stamped basket version (Entry level) at 78 USD/pair. (If I remember well)
I wanted to find out if what many audiophiles were saying about
the magic of full range was a reality, but I did not wanted to invest much for experimenting.
The construction is light, except for the magnet.
The surround is treated cloth,
which I like because it subject to last for a very long time.
The wizzer cone is like many other full range drivers.
I believe that the efficiency is 95db/1W/1M even if I did not measure it;
however, I did compare it with other drivers I have
and that I know the efficiency.
At first, I tried the AN in a dipole arrangement (Open baffle)
I was a little disappointed by the lack of bass or no bass at all.
Then, I re-installed them in a U frame configuration
and supplemented the bass with two 12” Eminence Acoustinator
(Two on each channel – Total of four in stereo)
with two 300 watts plate amplifiers.
Ahhhh… Now I have bass, lots of quality bass
and the AN don’t sound too shouty anymore.
Well, honestly, it still sounds a little shouty,
but I believe that’s the price to pay to get the magic sound
of full range drivers.
I almost forgot, at one time,
I did try them in a bass reflex floor standing enclosure
and the sound was so, so…
What everybody is saying about no bass with a full range driver
in a small enclosure is correct, especially a book shelve enclosure.
You can always add/use a sealed subwoofer;
even an 8” sealed subwoofer will supplement nicely the full range driver
in a small bass reflex enclosure.
I hope this is helping you a little more than confusing you a lot.

Guy 13

 

[vrtube]

There are reviews and feedback on the Audio Nirvana being just fine in BR. Do your due diligence and research.  I don't have an opinion one way or the other but don't let a few people steer you away; folks have their biases and it's important to make sure to try and get as wide a perspective as possible.

I always do look for review and forum posts before I ask questiions. Can point me to reviews where the AN 6.5 or 8 had good reviews in a bookshelf cabinet. Maybe I was not able to formulate the query properly. The reviews and postings I found are with larger cabinets.

[vrtube]

Hi vrtube and all Audio Circle members.
I’m almost sure this will not be of great help, but who knows.
I bought five years ago from Common Sense Audio a pair of
Audio Nirvana 8” FR driver, but the stamped basket version (Entry level) at 78 USD/pair. (If I remember well)
I wanted to find out if what many audiophiles were saying about
the magic of full range was a reality, but I did not wanted to invest much for experimenting.
The construction is light, except for the magnet.
The surround is treated cloth,
which I like because it subject to last for a very long time.
The wizzer cone is like many other full range drivers.
I believe that the efficiency is 95db/1W/1M even if I did not measure it;
however, I did compare it with other drivers I have
and that I know the efficiency.
At first, I tried the AN in a dipole arrangement (Open baffle)
I was a little disappointed by the lack of bass or no bass at all.
Then, I re-installed them in a U frame configuration
and supplemented the bass with two 12” Eminence Acoustinator
(Two on each channel – Total of four in stereo)
with two 300 watts plate amplifiers.
Ahhhh… Now I have bass, lots of quality bass
and the AN don’t sound too shouty anymore.
Well, honestly, it still sounds a little shouty,
but I believe that’s the price to pay to get the magic sound
of full range drivers.
I almost forgot, at one time,
I did try them in a bass reflex floor standing enclosure
and the sound was so, so…
What everybody is saying about no bass with a full range driver
in a small enclosure is correct, especially a book shelve enclosure.
You can always add/use a sealed subwoofer;
even an 8” sealed subwoofer will supplement nicely the full range driver
in a small bass reflex enclosure.
I hope this is helping you a little more than confusing you a lot.

Guy 13

Thanks you for the comments/information. It confirms what the software and others in this thread are saying. 7 or 8 liter BR = little bass. For good results, they need to be 43+ liters. I will investigate other options that will better fit a bookshelf enclosure.

[vrtube]

Mark Audio Alpair 12.2p or 10p. Fostex FF165wk.

dave

Are these options efficient enough for a 6W SET? I was hoping to find drivers with 94+dB/W(m). Maybe I am asking too much for drivers on a budget.

[doorman]

6 wpc. SET drives my Alpair 10.2's to levels far louder than I find comfortable, in a 14 x 24 room.

[rjbond3rd]

Are these options efficient enough for a 6W SET? I was hoping to find drivers with 94+dB/W(m). Maybe I am asking too much for drivers on a budget.

It's not budget at all, it's physics.   Yes, you -can- have 94+db sensitive speakers in a bookshelf, but the sacrifice is no deep bass.

There -are- highly efficient speakers available which are -might- be small enough to meet your definition of bookshelf, e.g. the smaller models from http://www.pispeakers.com/Prices.html or just to see what's possible, you might Google for efficient designs like Econowave and Cornscala.

P.S. I have a 2-watt SET and use 89dB drivers, bookshelf-style with a sub. Obviously Klipschorns happily blow them away in almost every way -- but oddly, not in tone, imaging and dispersion.  Since I value tone the most, I moved the Klipschorns to the garage for a while.

[vrtube]

An interesting option... The Omega 7F
http://www.omegaspeakercomponents.com/7f.html

with a Qts of 0.379. Vas is high 69.795 liters. FS at 43Hz, SPL of 93dB.

I will input the data in Unibox and see the results.