Line Conditioners?

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DecibleDude

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Line Conditioners?
« on: 26 Mar 2024, 03:21 am »
 I have my set 120 control amp along with all my other components plugged into a line conditioner which I believe filters the voltage and protects from surges, possibly hum etc. It's a basic thing I think costing about $100.00 and it's called the Furman M-8x I believe. Everything seems fine, no issues that I can hear or see, but someone on another forum told me he read somewhere that power conditioners cause much higher impedances which for some reason isn't suppose to be good. Can someone from Van Alstine tell me if there's any need to be concerned. I hope not because there's only one wall plug near all the gear which is not enough to plug everything in otherwise. Thank's

RDavidson

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #1 on: 26 Mar 2024, 05:28 pm »
Let’s step back and think critically about this : If what that guy heard/said was true, then everyone with a power conditioner would have problems particularly with their high power amps. Recording studios, TV stations, and other professionals with tons of electronics would have problems too. So…I would hedge my bets that the guy would said this is apparently just another clueless, internet, fake news, spreader. He probably read something somewhere about a particular conditioner and a particular situation and is now applying that situation across the board. :duh:

mick wolfe

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #2 on: 26 Mar 2024, 06:29 pm »
I agree with RDavidson. If you're curious about power conditioners, my only advice is to buy one with an audition period/return option. No way to predict if any of them would be of any value without trying one in your system.

maty

Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #3 on: 26 Mar 2024, 08:39 pm »
Alpha Audio
Live Stream Multitest - Power Conditioning - Do power conditioners sound differently?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyoiBVtM47Y



- Puritan PSM156 - 1750 Euro
- Isotek Aquarius EVO3 - 1500 Euro
- Isotek Aquarius V5 - 2500 Euro
- Audioquest 707 - 1299 Euro
- Isotek Gemini + Syncro - Around 900 Euro

maty

Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #4 on: 26 Mar 2024, 08:49 pm »
Article after the Live

Live multitest – Power Conditioners – Audioquest – Puritan – Isotek
https://www.alpha-audio.net/review/live-multitest-power-conditioners-audioquest-puritan-isotek/




RDavidson

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #5 on: 26 Mar 2024, 09:39 pm »
Maty, read the OP’s original post. He simply heard/read that line conditioners raise the output impedance versus plugging gear directly into the wall socket. No where is he asking if or how they may or may mot change audible performance…so let’s not head down that rabbit hole. :nono:
« Last Edit: 27 Mar 2024, 06:32 pm by RDavidson »

DecibleDude

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #6 on: 26 Mar 2024, 09:54 pm »
So to refocus my question a bit. My interest is could there be any possible harm caused to my system by using the passive Furman line conditioner? If anything, in terms of sound quality everything is fine, no hums, sizzles, or noise in the system at all. As far as I can tell everything sounds just fine in terms of high fidelity. So having heard that these devices can increase impedances greatly I want to make sure they're safe to use. Hopefully one of the AVA people can give me a definitive answer to that question, because beyond a doubt there's a lot of mumbo jumbo out there which I can't decern the truth of.

mick wolfe

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #7 on: 27 Mar 2024, 12:56 am »
I've heard that in some cases there is no improvement at all or conversely, an immense uptick in performance. And in the mix, there's also been comments that a conditioner degraded performance. However, I've never heard of a case where a conditioner damaged a system component. Once again, it's simply a component that has to be auditioned in your system. The Furman unit you mention is not going to damage any component in your system.

Early B.

Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #8 on: 27 Mar 2024, 02:51 am »
So to refocus my question a bit. My interest is could there be any possible harm caused to my system by using the passive Furman line conditioner? If anything, in terms of sound quality everything is fine, no hums, sizzles, or noise in the system at all. As far as I can tell everything sounds just fine in terms of high fidelity. So having heard that these devices can increase impedances greatly I want to make sure they're safe to use. Hopefully one of the AVA people can give me a definitive answer to that question, because beyond a doubt there's a lot of mumbo jumbo out there which I can't decern the truth of.

Don't create a problem that doesn't exist. Only deal in facts, and don't listen to what people post. Common sense can often help you discern if something is true or bullsh*t. If power conditioners posed a problem, you would find a ton of research articles on it, Consumer Reports would warn the public, you'd read horror stories all over the Internet, some brands would be bashed, electronics manufacturers would urge buyers not to use them, there would be massive recalls, etc.

Of course, like anything else, if you buy a cheap quality product, you get what you pay for. For audiophiles, a decent power conditioner isn't cheap. I'd say $1,500 is a good starting point (and that's a used price).     

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #9 on: 27 Mar 2024, 03:40 am »
So to refocus my question a bit. My interest is could there be any possible harm caused to my system by using the passive Furman line conditioner?...
No I don't believe you'll cause damage to your equipment. I would still listen to the system with it and without it (simple power strip, no surge) to compare.  I have heard several systems that sounded worse when a line filter was installed. Lifeless would be the best description of the sound with a filter compared to without.

gene9p

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #10 on: 27 Mar 2024, 04:14 am »
manufacturers of amps usually recommend the amp be plugged directly into the electrical outlet...

DecibleDude

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #11 on: 27 Mar 2024, 10:30 am »
manufacturers of amps usually recommend the amp be plugged directly into the electrical outlet...
  Ok, but why is that?

BadDNA

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #12 on: 27 Mar 2024, 11:39 am »
My M225's are plugged into a Humdinger, which is plugged into a remote on/off pigtail from the outlet. Frank said this was completely fine.

DecibleDude

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #13 on: 27 Mar 2024, 11:43 am »
My M225's are plugged into a Humdinger, which is plugged into a remote on/off pigtail from the outlet. Frank said this was completely fine.
  What's a remote pigtail?

BadDNA

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #14 on: 27 Mar 2024, 01:46 pm »

Early B.

Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #15 on: 27 Mar 2024, 02:32 pm »
  Ok, but why is that?

For reasons already mentioned -- a power conditioner, especially a crappy one, can degrade the sound, introduce transformer hum, etc. If that happens, an amp manufacturer doesn't want the consumer to point the finger at the amp.

dlparker

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #16 on: 27 Mar 2024, 02:48 pm »
For reasons already mentioned -- a power conditioner, especially a crappy one, can degrade the sound, introduce transformer hum, etc. If that happens, an amp manufacturer doesn't want the consumer to point the finger at the amp.

So just to make sure that I understand - a power conditioner which reliably does what it's supposed to do - regulate voltage and frequency, will not harm the equipment or affect their performance?

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #17 on: 27 Mar 2024, 03:17 pm »
So just to make sure that I understand - a power conditioner which reliably does what it's supposed to do - regulate voltage and frequency, will not harm the equipment or affect their performance?
It shouldn't harm equipment (never say never) but it may effect performance, for the better or worse.

dlparker

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Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #18 on: 27 Mar 2024, 03:32 pm »
It shouldn't harm equipment (never say never) but it may effect performance, for the better or worse.

Thanks Rusty!

Early B.

Re: Line Conditioners?
« Reply #19 on: 27 Mar 2024, 05:48 pm »
So just to make sure that I understand - a power conditioner which reliably does what it's supposed to do - regulate voltage and frequency, will not harm the equipment or affect their performance?

Most power conditioners don't regulate voltage. The primary purpose of a power conditioner is to protect your equipment. I'm stating the obvious, but often audiophiles get caught up talking about sound quality. It's one of those weird things we do that allows marketers to put a $5,000 price tag on a power conditioner.