ncores at low volumes

Rclark · « **on:** 16 Nov 2012, 10:08 pm »

Are really quite remarkable. Last night, 3am, couldn't sleep so decided to put an album on. Have to be quiet at after 11pm in our apartment, so I had the volume low.

Listening to the Eagles and the sound: incredibly full and powerful, nice thwaks on the drumhead, palpable bass. I thought, this is going to be too loud, pulled out my meter and registered an avg of only 43db! Just above the threshold of the meter itself. But the sound was full and loud without any loss of detail. Pretty incredible.

I got up and moved out of the room and it was barely audible, with the door shut, not at all. But listening position rocked. I think these amps will preclude any need for headphones. Quite a remarkable capability at astonishingly low volume.... Sounds much louder than it actually is, and full spectrum, full bass.

jtwrace · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Nov 2012, 10:26 pm »

What's the noise floor of the room?

Rclark · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Nov 2012, 10:32 pm »

well, there's no mechanical noises other than a clock in the bathroom, and the neighborhood itself is silent at that hour.

jtwrace · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Nov 2012, 10:40 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 16 Nov 2012, 10:32 pm

well, there's no mechanical noises other than a clock in the bathroom, and the neighborhood itself is silent at that hour.

Sorry but there are noises....what's the SPL of the room without the stereo on?

Speedskater · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Nov 2012, 10:47 pm »

It might be tricky for the average bear to measure background SPL.
An old Radio Shack meter only goes down to 60dB full scale.

Rclark · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Nov 2012, 10:58 pm »

Quote from: jtwrace on 16 Nov 2012, 10:40 pm

Sorry but there are noises....what's the SPL of the room without the stereo on?

I'll measure that tonight.

My guess is the meter will sit, pegged at 40.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Nov 2012, 11:20 pm »

If the 'meter' is a smartphone app it may not be that accurate below 60dB due to self noise problems which compromise the circuitry's signal to noise ratio. A calibrated mic used with PC based software would be another matter.
Scotty

Rclark · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Nov 2012, 11:37 pm »

Yup it's my Windows Phone, a Samsung Focus, but it seems to be pretty sensitive. Of course, I'll get to revisit all this properly when I get the DsPeaker Dual Core and use the measurement suite included with that.

Either way, you get phenomenal low volume sound out of these amps, no loss in quality.

werd · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Dec 2012, 03:18 am »

I do most of my listening like that. Those volumes it's easy to fall into a hypnotic state in the sweet spot. The music gets right around if you can stay calm and relaxed with the eyes closed. It Is the best way to listen and blows away loud listening IMO.

Rclark · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Dec 2012, 04:39 am »

It's true, if your system rocks at low level, to where you get all the dynamic range and nothing is lost. I have to credit the LDR I have as well, exceptional low volume detail.. combined with what the Ncore delivers at low levels, crisp highs and strong bass.

You also get a lot less room interaction to contend with which also drives fidelity through the "roof".

None of my cheapo systems before this were capable of doing what this does, ALL of them required some juice in order to get to that state where it was the full music, and clear and powerful top to bottom. Every system required some good cranked volume to sound the best.

This system, with Ncores, you can pick which setting you want, and get the same quality regardless. Quiet as a mouse sounds just as vibrant and dynamic and clear as any louder setting. It goes the other way too, you can turn the volume knob as far as it will go, the speakers eventually just stop getting louder, and it's LOUD LOUD, but they don't sound distorted or compressed, just sounds like ear candy all the way up, never changes in quality.

Incredible amplifiers.

werd · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Dec 2012, 04:29 pm »

Rckark

In this one subjective thread you have told me more about the Ncores then you have up until now.

Not many systems can do this. Any of the Bryston sst amps can't . Their new amps can.

Solid state rules listening like this. It's why I love solid state.

What speakers are you using?. You should put a systems profile up. I see you have a gallery but no system profile.

Rclark · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Dec 2012, 09:20 pm »

Thanks Werd

and it's totally true about these amps, and a class d with an SMPS to boot. They are a dream...

I don't have a system pic yet because, mainly I have a cell phone camera, and my speakers are beautiful, that camera can't do them justice no matter how hard I try.

That and I have three more pieces to left to buy, a Dsp Dual Core, one of the fat 8' * 4' , full on QRD diffusers they have for $600 shipped from that new company, and possibly another sub or two. After that, a real camera, and an Zoom H4 so I can record what my system sounds like too. Might wanna get some monoblock stands too.

After that I'll put up system pics. Plus I don't want to take pics of my amps yet because I have a special finish planned for them. So I'm about 4 months away I'd say from having the system done done and pics up.

As it stands already though, I'm ecstatic with how it already sounds. Puts a huge grin on my face every time I play it. My speakers are Magnestand MMG's with the full mod, Jupiter Beeswax caps bypassed with Mundorf Silver in Oil on the external crossovers (not the one's in my Avy, I stole that from Peter Gunn), I've got the Ncore monoblocks powering those, a first rate build by JTWrace, a battery powered LDR, the Warpspeed, and the totally fabulous Emotiva ERC-2 cd player, which I recommend to anyone looking for a player. I can't recommend the Warpspeed enough. I get super fine volume control with many, many winds of the dial, totally transparent, crystalline sound, I don't even care that there's no remote for it. Basically I'm just a source with a volume knob going straight to amps... My subwoofer is the Epik Legend, dual sealed 12's, an amazing sub that keeps up with my speakers, and is extremely musical, but also powerful and deep.

I took a few detours getting here, there are castaway pieces, I basically have system 2 ready to go, just need a dac/pre for it.

werd · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Dec 2012, 06:25 pm »

That's great, you should include a typed out written system profile, that's what I meant.

Rclark · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Dec 2012, 03:43 am »

Alright I threw up something tertiary and quick. Wasn't going to until it is all completely 100% system build complete, but whatever. It's not all filled out.

werd · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Dec 2012, 01:51 pm »

Now I can look at your stuff with out having to peer into a photo to see what you got.

You got me curious about your LDR and your emotive cd.

What I like about big solid state power amps used for late nite listening is tapping into the class A output.
My 14b is awesome for this and so is the 4b. The new ones are anyways.

This is the best way to listen to tunes, once you get yourself settled in, the listening volume really isn't an issue. Once the eyes close and you can get into that relaxed zone the volume of your system appears way louder than it actually is. You don't need any volume for the sound to wrap around you.

If you look at my profile you will see cricket and dog farts in my comments. My awesome dog can really screw with my listening. You are finally into a zone and then a dog smell starts to linger and its like...." dam you dog"

.

I also house a gecko lizard that eats fresh crickets. Dam those crickets too. You get into the zone and dogs not farting and then all the sudden some alpha cricket starts calling out. Another zone downer.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Dec 2012, 04:37 pm »

Quote from: werd on 8 Dec 2012, 04:29 pm

In this one subjective thread you have told me more about the Ncores then you have up until now. Not many systems can do this.

I agree. Not too many people talk about this character of their system or even mention if it is important to them. Or maybe i just haven't noticed. Anyway, it's a special quality that I look for too as I continue on this audio journey.

RClark,
I'm really glad you found that magic combination of gear. You have been dedicated and focused since day one. It's all coming together for you. Congratulations!

Not to detract from the awesomeness of this thread, but FWIW,,, that special quality of low volume magic is why some of us are addicted to single ended triodes. SETs also do their thing from micro watt to single watt, and then they just poop out. Just so you know what some of the fuss is all about for a measly 8 watts.

Rclark · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 06:50 am »

One day I may have to try a Set amp, after my system here is 100% done and I'm ready to tinker.

It's true, when you have a system that can play the full signal with gusto, but quietly, it is the best way, because you can get the highest fidelity listening this way. And you aren't missing out, because the full signal is played strongly and clearly in all frequencies, it's like it's not even turned down. The completeness and richness of the sound lulls you into thinking you have it turned up. The highs still sparkle, the vocals clear as a bell, and the bass purrs deeply, it's not overexciting your room, the room becomes transparent, you get lost in the soundscape.

It truly is one of the greatest features of this amplifer, and really, anyone who lives in an apartment should look into these. I can listen after quiet hours here and it's totally satisfying, and I'll even play heavy rock, etc, and not find myself thinking, man I wish I could turn it up. It's really a wierd phenomenon. Probably also related to having planar speakers which put forth a large wavefront. Large wavefront, amplified at low volume from great amps.

Hopefully next Oct I can get into a house, and then I can let her rip. She does that too.

I do crank it up in the daylight hours, but I'm nearfield, and so 75-80 dB is really plenty.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 07:04 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 16 Dec 2012, 06:50 am

It's true, when you have a system that can play the full signal with gusto, but quietly, it is the best way, because you can get the highest fidelity listening this way. And you aren't missing out, because the full signal is played strongly and clearly in all frequencies, it's like it's not even turned down. The completeness and richness of the sound lulls you into thinking you have it turned up. The highs still sparkle, the vocals clear as a bell, and the bass purrs deeply, it's not overexciting your room, the room becomes transparent, you get lost in the soundscape.

... I can listen after quiet hours here and it's totally satisfying, and I'll even play heavy rock, etc, and not find myself thinking, man I wish I could turn it up. It's really a wierd phenomenon.

Dude, you totally nailed it. I give you an A+.

Rclark · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 07:08 am »

Thanks! I couldn't have done it without help from this forum and a lot of research, it took a lot to arrive here. Think I chose wisely. A few more pieces should put it over the top. Very much looking forward to adding the 8' by 4' full QRD diffuser behind my speakers, I think that's going to be amazing. It's just bare wall right now, about 4-5 feet behind my speakers.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Dec 2012, 07:12 am »

I'd like to hear about the diffusers you chose. Maybe you can start another thread about them?