[WildPhydeaux]

I expect that when the current crisis winds down in a couple months or so that every tax in the country will double to pay down the massive deficit resulting from the shocking handouts PETson is claiming to spread around. Of course, that will be temporary, like income tax was for WWII...

As a result the middle class will cease to exist. Probably have an effect on high end sales.

Cheers,
Robert

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I mean there are some pretty affordable options out there, but you have to know where to look and who to talk to.  many that have been in the arena for a long time, tend to have long since moved past the "affordable" category, and don't pay attention to what's new and what's changed. Cuz a lot of technology from the high end does trickle down, but the masses aren't always aware of options outside of major brands and marketing.

It's hard to recommend $100 products when you're used to $1000+ parts, and its discouraging when everyone recommends stuff thats far outside of your available budget. And the opposite is also true, we can dream about having a $100K system, but its a pipe dream for any aspiring audiophile, and gets discouraging pretty quickly, when all we get recommended $5000 components, when we've got $1000 budget for a whole system.

We gotta point beginners in the direction of people who are in similar positions, but maybe 1-2 steps ahead of the curve, who are still aware of what's new and growing in the entry space. Call it "mid-fi" or whatever, its often still better than 95% of consumer grade products from Wal-Mart, and that's something to be praised.

It's no different than pointing someone to a $200 pair of Sennheisers over a $300 pair of Beats. It might not have the "cool" factor, but the experience they will get is far more enjoyable.
It might not be perfect, but it shows them what's possible, even on a budget.

That's a direction & attitude the audio/Hi-Fi industry needs more of.

[Randy]

^ but how much of that will be on quality audio? Survival of the industry depends a lot on it.

I'm for culling the herd -- too many mfrs peddling basically the same types of gear, at widely varying prices. For the same reason why many use separate power lines for their systems: isolation from noise. With so many mfrs, there's too much background noise in hi-end sales pitching -- makes it very difficult for people (newbies and veterans) to discern the really good gear from the crap. Sure, audition...but there are only so many dealerships and so many hrs in a day.

Go cull yourself.  It's a free country.

[Rocket_Ronny]

High End Audio is having enough struggles without this world economic killer. It takes a lot of effort and sacrifice to create a business. Those that cheer their failure obviously have not made that kind of sacrifice. Not only is this a sad day for audio, but for the world in general.

Rocket Ronny

[Early B.]

One thing is for certain -- the market will adjust itself. Right now, a lot of people have a lot of money to spend on a lot of audio options. That's why a lot of options exist. Someone is buying this stuff. When consumers have less money to spend on high end audio, prices will decrease. Likewise, when the demand decreases, the options will likewise decrease. Your boutique manufacturers will go out of business. With regard to COVID-19, small businesses, in general, will get hit hard. And in high end audio, that's the two guys in a garage cranking out awesome gear. 

Nevertheless, high end audio isn't going anywhere for the next 20 years as long as we're around. Once the young people get into their late fifties, then high end audio will diminish. 

[S Clark]

. Right now, a lot of people have a lot of money to spend on a lot of audio options.

Well, even though I had moved to a much larger than usual cash position in mid Jan. I certainly should have moved a lot more... so I'm one of those that don't have near as much to blow on audio as I had two months ago.     Bad time to own oil, Ford,  or NY real estate.   

[OzarkTom]

I believe as more here that have to go cheap, you might even have better sound.

[mix4fix]

The "Herd" has always trimmed itself. The consumer dictates that. There are many great small companies working from home or limited facilities. How does a newcomer get in without starting that way? All to many great products went by the waste side. I have seen to many products that were better than main stream and cheaper. What happened to them. They were told to raise prices as prices of "Dealer stock"  was the issue. Better and cheaper HURT the mainstream products.

charles

I have attended CAF every year since it started, and one thing I have noticed is that vendors come and go (and just attending, but in existence).

[CanadianMaestro]

Go cull yourself.  It's a free country.

Do it to yourself first. Yeah, free country, I support that.
Not stupidity.

[CanadianMaestro]

Ohh boy, this got me started. Apologies to those who have heard my rant before.

Corona virus in and of itself will not kill high-end. Since there is essentially no retail infrastructure for high-end audio anymore, most of the industry has moved to a direct sales and or online business model anyway. In fact, several members here have reported buying components during the crisis and are now enjoying them with their newfound time.

Part of the problem with high-end is that there is no entry-level. And what there is is frequently derided as 'mid-fi' by (some of) those who are more well-heeled. A couple of years ago, I compiled a list of exhibitors at Capital Audiofest and tallied up the cost of the system on display. The mean price of the systems on display was $58,000, and that was after backing out the cost of the system in the room that had the big KEF $220,000 'shampoo bottle' speakers. I felt that the cost of that system skewed the results. I also didn't include the cost of the now obligatory boutique cabling. So add a few grand for that in most rooms. I haven't done this for several years, but just a glance at most of the show reports leads me to believe that the numbers have only gone up.

I have young friends who are in fact interested in audio. I have gotten them to come to the shows, but I only got one to come back. They seem to be turned off by the implication (or sometimes overt assertion) that they need to spend $1000 just to plug the system into the wall. This does not build an audience for high-end. Having decent, rationally priced equipment available does. If they want to buy the half inch thick faceplates and filligreed metalwork later in life, that's fine. My first Dynaco system cost me $330 in 1971 dollars (a little over $2K today). $100 or so later and I had FM. I got almost 10 years of enjoyable music out of it and really only replaced it because that's when Hafler came out on the market and I had the itch to build something again. Neither of those systems were what would be considered 'high-end' today, but they were nipping at the heels of it and they were both very satisfying systems to listen to and provided much enjoyment long-term.

There is practically no counterpart to that system today, and if there is, you won't find it at an audio show. There was one dealer who was promoting a $3000 system at one of the CAF shows but, on each of my several visits to the room, that system was not connected and playing.

So, in my opinion, two things are killing high-end audio. One is partially greed, because it probably takes nearly as much resources to design, build, and market a $5000 system as it does to do the same for a $50,000 system. And audio manufacturers being a business, most anybody in a business, given the choice between making a living selling $5000 dollar systems and making a killing selling $50,000 dollar systems, well, most people would rather expend 10% of the effort and resources to make the same money. Problem is, the market for high-end audio is small in number. And that brings me to my other point.

I mentioned that I knew some young people who are interested in audio. There aren't many though. When I was 15 I bought my first system for lawn mowing money. By the time I was in college, most my friends had systems. They were not 'high-end' systems but they were decent which takes me back to my original point. Now there's no entry level, and a pretty fair amount of- let's be honest- snobbery towards  equipment most people would consider 'affordable'. The people who are in that age group now have zero interest in spending close to six figures on a music system. They listen to music with synthesized drum tracks, synthesized instruments, autotuned vocals and the like. There is no original acoustic event to have '', so they are perfectly fine with 'smart speakers' (which, I'm like the high end audio market, is growing by leaps and bounds). Sad to say, I don't see this changing anytime soon.

'

"Hi-end" is a volatile term. So is entry level. imho, there is at least some sanity to quality, entry-level audio. Companies like Schiit and Audioquest (e.g. Dragonfly) are examples.

[mocenigo]

You shouldn't need to spend $$$$ to get excellent SQ at home.

And nobody should ever need to. Neurochrome's amplifiers or any amp based on Purifi's Eval1 kit will essentially give you the highest level of fidelity money can buy. If you want a super-cool chassis and you have the money to purchase a Dan D'Agostino, go ahead, but it won't be better. If you want a certain type of distortion, pay what you want to get it. If you want a very expensive and very much energy-wasting means to get the same quality of the examples I made, get a SoTA tube amp. Speakers are a similar thing (I would go for horn loaded coaxial compression drivers + woofer, there are DIY projects). For DACs there are great products like the ones from Topping. Balanced interconnects? Sommer Cable Epilogue. Speaker cable? Kimber (only the geometry counts, not the fancy conductor...) – or any sufficiently thick shootgun type cable, possibly with the two conductors spaced apart (Choseal on AliExpress).

You could get a SOtA system for around 5K USD.

[Wind Chaser]

That depends on what one calls SOTA. For many, 5K is entry level and a far cry from SOTA.

[Don_S]

That depends on what one calls SOTA. For many, 5K is entry level and a far cry from SOTA.

Agreed.

[gnitta]

Rollo,
I agree. Whether or not he is high paid, I do not respect or like Kesslers opinions.

[Stu Pitt]

Since the author is British, I’ll reply in British...

Bollocks.

[genjamon]

He's nothing more than another neo-malthusian, like Ehrlich and many others.

"It is an evident truth that, whatever may be the rate of increase in the means of subsistence, the increase in population must be limited by it, at least after the food has been divided into the smallest shares that will support life. All the children born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population to this level, must necessarily perish, unless room be made for them by the deaths of grown persons. ... To act consistently, therefore, we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavouring to impede, the operation of nature in producing this mortality, and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use.

Instead of recommending cleanliness to the poor, we should encourage contrary habits. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses, and court the return of the plague. In the country we should build our villages near stagnant pools, and particularly encourage settlements in all marshy and unwholesome situations. But above all, we should reprobate specific remedies for ravaging diseases: and those benevolent, but much mistaken men, who have thought they were doing a service to mankind by projecting schemes for the total extirpation of particular disorders. If by these and similar means the annual mortality were increased ... we might probably every one of us marry at the age of puberty and yet few be absolutely starved."

-Thomas Malthus (Essay on the Principle of Population)

And yet the population has continued to grow quite well since the 1700's...  hmm, there might be more to the story than simple geometric vs. arithmetic growth curves, don'tcha think?

[WGH]

The US and the world still has plenty of money, everyone has just pulled back spending for a while. Owning a small business like I do is an extremely risky way to make a living, most don't make it even in the best of times. The 2008 recession hit the building industry very hard, inquires for custom doors (another luxury item like audio) went from 3 or 4 a week to 1 every 3 or 4 months, high end houses were not being built even though all my clients still had plenty of money but they collectively decided not to spend it, just like now, it's an emotional decision.

2008 was also a turning point in demographics. I started my business in 1981, interest rates were 15% (anyone remember that?) but business was still booming. I was 33 years old and all my customers were at least 20 years older than me, they were in their prime earning years and had plenty of disposable income. Over 39 years my customer's age and mine got closer until I am now older than many of my clients. My first clients are now collecting social security and living in their final house (or assisted living), listening to their final stereo and certainly not buying new high end anything like they used to.

In the last 12 years boomers incomes took a hit just as they were reaching their prime earning years but the last 3 or 4 years have been pretty good. The kids took an even bigger hit as we transition to a service and gig economy. My brother's 38 year old daughter just moved out, he thought that would never happen.

Everything will bounce back quickly but it won't be like it was, but then again maybe it will. I had to decline 3 custom jobs this week because I'm on a sabbatical after selling my shop to a student housing developer. I'm also doing my best to support the audio industry by buying lots of stuff.

[Daedalus Audio]

OK, against my better judgement I have to say something....  Be careful what you wish for.
Yes there are way too many small as well as large companies making the same mediocre products. Well, that is just the nature of our world, not just "high-end" audio. Been to a supermarket or department store lately? Many if not most of the best products in high-end audio are made by small companies of under 20 employees and some much smaller than that. These companies are getting hit hard and some of the ones who may not make it or may just decide they have had enough will be those who make exceptional gear at relatively reasonable prices. The larger companies who survive will do so because they have higher margins etc., think about what that means to the consumer. The small company making exceptional gear at fair prices (remember just because you can't afford it does not mean it isn't fair) gets hit and goes away, the big companies selling overpriced mediocre gear ride it out and end up being the only choices left.
Be careful what you wish for.

btw as an aside, there is a LOT more to developing, producing and marketing a product than most people understand. Pretty much every owner of a small company in audio whom I know has put their heart and soul into their work and most of them could make more money in other fields which they are trained in.

[toocool4]

Very well explained Daedalus Audio, i agree with you 100%

[Wind Chaser]

Yes there are way too many small as well as large companies making the same mediocre products.

If you build it, they will come. Or at least they use to B4 C-19.