AudioCircle
Industry Circles => ZenWave Audio => Topic started by: abd1 on 19 Nov 2021, 10:48 pm
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I'm looking at investing into some new speaker cables for 2022 and ZenWave speaker cables intrigue me. My speakers are Cube Audio Nenuphar Minis, which are single drive with no crossover. Sensitivity is rated at 91db, but I feel like it is higher in real world listening due to the lack of crossover. I can easily run a 1.5wpc 45 tube amp and have plenty of output. I stream music from an Auralic streamer to a Berkeley Reference Dac to a Sachs tube preamp to tube amp.
Looking at the different models ZenWave offers I was initially looking at the SCR-14 copper ribbon cable. Then I noticed the high efficiency cables. Not sure how those would work with my speakers since they are only 91db, but again they are crossover-less and seem to perform better than their sensitivity rating implies. I understand the SCR-14 is 14 gauge copper ribbon. The SL 17G is 17gauge copper Litz, and the S3/S4 are 20 gauge copper/silver and gold/silver respectively. I'm curious what the real world differences are in these models and what would be the best fit for my system? I priced them all out based on a 3m length with the Furatech FT212 bananas. Thanks in advance for any input.
SL 17G $937
SCR-14 $1520
S3 20G $1617
S4 20G $2667
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I look forward to hearing replies on this topic. This system kissing cousins with mine. Similar but different components.
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Certainly email Dave. For a similar setup, 45 SET and Omega speakers (poor mans Nenuphar), he recommended the SL-17G. I really like the copper litz for speaker cables. I tried a handful and settled on duelund until the Zenwave arrived. They are more neutral, faster, and have an overall more pleasing and real tone to my ears.
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I made some suggestions of other brands of cables in this thread and was notified by the owner that I broke the rules. It was an honest mistake.
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the anticables I borrowed, while good, were a bit shouty on top and light on bass with my SET setup.
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I'm looking at investing into some new speaker cables for 2022 and ZenWave speaker cables intrigue me. My speakers are Cube Audio Nenuphar Minis, which are single drive with no crossover. Sensitivity is rated at 91db, but I feel like it is higher in real world listening due to the lack of crossover. I can easily run a 1.5wpc 45 tube amp and have plenty of output. I stream music from an Auralic streamer to a Berkeley Reference Dac to a Sachs tube preamp to tube amp.
Looking at the different models ZenWave offers I was initially looking at the SCR-14 copper ribbon cable. Then I noticed the high efficiency cables. Not sure how those would work with my speakers since they are only 91db, but again they are crossover-less and seem to perform better than their sensitivity rating implies. I understand the SCR-14 is 14 gauge copper ribbon. The SL 17G is 17gauge copper Litz, and the S3/S4 are 20 gauge copper/silver and gold/silver respectively. I'm curious what the real world differences are in these models and what would be the best fit for my system? I priced them all out based on a 3m length with the Furatech FT212 bananas. Thanks in advance for any input.
SL 17G $937
SCR-14 $1520
S3 20G $1617
S4 20G $2667
Sure, I do think the high efficiency speaker cables would work just fine for your system. The sensitivity is a bit on the low side but they don't take a lot of power. The shorter the better, but 3m should work out fine.
On SL-17 vs SCR-14 the SL litz cables are very clean and accurate, the ribbon cables are able to achieve a lower inductance though, so bass and dynamics are a little more immediate and forceful, sound is a touch warmer and fuller. While 14g is a little overkill, the cables would be suitable for almost any speaker so they'd offer a bit more flexibility.
S3 is a silver/copper hybrid so it's a bit warmer and less expensive vs pure silver at the expense of some clarity and resolution.
S4 is a silver/gold alloy, it's a bit warmer vs pure silver but the warmth is more natural sounding vs the S3 and it has less of an effect on clarity and resolution. You get a cable that's 99% the ultimate speed, clarity and resolution of pure UPOCC silver with more realistic sounding tone and timbre.
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Sure, I do think the high efficiency speaker cables would work just fine for your system. The sensitivity is a bit on the low side but they don't take a lot of power. The shorter the better, but 3m should work out fine.
On SL-17 vs SCR-14 the SL litz cables are very clean and accurate, the ribbon cables are able to achieve a lower inductance though, so bass and dynamics are a little more immediate and forceful, sound is a touch warmer and fuller. While 14g is a little overkill, the cables would be suitable for almost any speaker so they'd offer a bit more flexibility.
S3 is a silver/copper hybrid so it's a bit warmer and less expensive vs pure silver at the expense of some clarity and resolution.
S4 is a silver/gold alloy, it's a bit warmer vs pure silver but the warmth is more natural sounding vs the S3 and it has less of an effect on clarity and resolution. You get a cable that's 99% the ultimate speed, clarity and resolution of pure UPOCC silver with more realistic sounding tone and timbre.
Thanks for the info... Sounds like the S4 gives the best of everything but the SCR-14 is a great value relatively, and would work with any speaker. Have to think about this a bit. I priced out at 3m length and at that length S4 goes over initial budget, but that's never stopped me before :wink:. My current cables are 2.5m and fit perfect, but I'd like to have the flexibility of a bit more cable in case I want to adjust speaker location a bit wider or further out. Price jumps big in that .5m for S4, probably due to the cost of the material no doubt. Decisions....
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^ can we see a pick of those Cubes? Always had reservations with a 45 amp and 91db speaker - even w/o crossover. like the Frenchie!
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^ can we see a pick of those Cubes? Always had reservations with a 45 amp and 91db speaker - even w/o crossover. like the Frenchie!
Thanks. Phoebe loves the music.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232545)
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really gorgeous speakers. can't wait to hear them one day. Alan Eaton with them must be really special.
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Thanks. Phoebe loves the music.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=232545)
Nice looking speakers! I've heard a lot of good reports about Cube.
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Nice looking speakers! I've heard a lot of good reports about Cube.
Thank you. I love these speakers. They are so natural and detailed without ever being harsh. Recommended. Now looking for speaker cables to bring out even more in them.
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Thank you. I love these speakers. They are so natural and detailed without ever being harsh. Recommended. Now looking for speaker cables to bring out even more in them.
Let me know if you'd like to try some out, I offer free demos. You can msg me here or email dave at zenwaveaudio.
Happy thanksgiving!
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abd1,
The only speakers on my radar wrt to possible upgrades from my Spatial Audio speakers would be the very speakers you have. My friend in Italy has them and is blow away with their performance. I am aware that Zen Wave makes excellent cabling, no question.
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Just edited, I just saw speaker cable recommendation and was sharing what I had experienced and didn't notice the forum; my apologies
Wig
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Wig, I'm sure your intent isn't malicious, but it is inappropriate (and against the rules) to post competitor products in any of the sponsor circles. You should use general circles, in this case The Path of Least Resistance, for sharing this type of info.
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Wig, I'm sure your intent isn't malicious, but it is inappropriate (and against the rules) to post competitor products in any of the sponsor circles. You should use general circles, in this case The Path of Least Resistance, for sharing this type of info.
Thanks Ryan!
Just so folks are clear on this, I don't want to have recommendations for other cables in this forum because as it's owner, I'd be forced to answer and participate. Unfortunately, it becomes a slippery slope and I don't have the time nor the inclination to write comparisons, pros vs cons, etc. of my cables vs the multitude of competitors. It seems like there's a new cable company starting up every day since the pandemic began and I get it, now's a good time to start a business especially for folks who's lives may have been negatively effected by the pandemic.
I have no issue with folks comparing my cables to other cables, just please do it in the "Path of Least Resistance" forum, which will both give me a choice as whether or not to contribute as well as not allowing me to promote my cables, which may make for a discussion with a little less industry influence.
Thanks so much for everyone's understanding, I really appreciate it, and I really appreciate not having to spend a lot of time on this vs that type discussions! :D
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abd1,
The only speakers on my radar wrt to possible upgrades from my Spatial Audio speakers would be the very speakers you have. My friend in Italy has them and is blow away with their performance. I am aware that Zen Wave makes excellent cabling, no question.
The Spatial X5's were the other speaker I was interested in. My wife helped me make the choice based on asthetics and I can't say it was a bad choice, but I'd love to hear X5's one day in my room.
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@abd1 I've heard many good things regarding the Cubes too.They are very nice looking to boot. I have a pair of Zu Omen Defs (101db) so also super sensitive. I have the regular copper ribbon speaker cables.I would have gone for the high efficiency model but I actually bought them for the Harbeths that were :lol: going to be my forever speakers. Until the full range drivers blew my mind.
What is special about the ribbons is the inner detail and nuance that they are able to coax out of every recording. They don't favor any frequency,it's across the entire spectrum. I haven't tried any of Dave's other sp.cables so I can't compare. His ics and power cables are excellent also IMO.
Another opinion I've formed regarding my ongoing journey with full range drivers is they do not need any extra help in the dynamics dept.Any tweak that puts me front row center in front of the amp is fun for one evening only :P
Anyways, hope you will audition a few,find just the right fit,and post your results. V
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I am going to demo some of the SCR-11 speaker cables as well as a D4 and D5 XLR, very excited to give them a try! Have some friends coming over this weekend to hear them as well. Based on what I have read about them, think they will impress!
Tim
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I'll look forward to your impressions. For me ZenWave cables have been like fitting in puzzle pieces.One design may be perfect between amp and pre but be a bad fit from dac to pre.But another from the lineup turns out to be "the one".
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Hi @minatophase3
I also had the DSR XLR available so I put that in the box too. :D
What @jtcf mentioned is true, while I try to achieve the maximum clarity and resolution for every ZenWave cable, tone is very different! The "right" tone can vary a lot from system to system and from person to person. This is why I offer 3 different high-end interconnect cables, from the pure silver DSR to the silver/gold D4 and the silver/GOLD D5.
With speaker cables I think the results are more dependent on electrical characteristics, speakers typically have an impedance of 4-8 ohms where components are usually over 10,000 ohm and often over 100,000 ohm. So the speaker cable carries a lot more current (and usually a lot more voltage) and so more energy is stored in the EMF or electro magnetic fields. Reducing inductance by using flat wire and/or specific and special geometries reduces energy stored in the magnetic fields and makes for better performance. The combination of the electrical characteristics of the SC + the speaker is best when it presents the amplifier with an ideal load, in fact in some amps excessive cable capacitance can cause instability and amplifier damage. So we're not looking for the least inductance at the expense of having far too much capacitance, and imo it's best if this can be achieved without correction networks, and this is the reason my ribbon cables and litz cables are superior to cables that use traditional round wires.
That said, you're also at the mercy of the speaker designer, I feel like many crossovers are designed without any consideration for the amps and cables used to power them and this can make it so non-ideal speaker cables may be more ideal for a particular speaker. It's likely that if every speaker had crossovers with impedance correction and then used an electrically ideal cable that the selection of speaker cables would be much more straightforward.
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I'm sorry for the mistake.I hope I did not start the war.
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Hi @minatophase3
I also had the DSR XLR available so I put that in the box too. :D
Thanks Dave, looking forward to hearing all 3 of them as well as the speaker wires!
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I'll look forward to your impressions. For me ZenWave cables have been like fitting in puzzle pieces.One design may be perfect between amp and pre but be a bad fit from dac to pre.But another from the lineup turns out to be "the one".
My system is pretty basic so I only need one set of XLR's which makes the puzzle a bit easier to compete :-).
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I am going to demo some of the SCR-11 speaker cables as well as a D4 and D5 XLR, very excited to give them a try! Have some friends coming over this weekend to hear them as well. Based on what I have read about them, think they will impress!
Tim
Hi Tim,
Any recollection of your impressions of the various ZenWave cables you tried?