[mr_bill]

I have been reading up on supertweeters or very extended treble response and many of these designs garner great reviews - Volent VL2 (with LCY to 60k), Reference 3A Grand Veena (with Murata super tweet), Maggie 3.6 ribbon, add on Townshend super tweeter, etc.

The strengths of the Salk HT1TL or HT2TL includes world class drivers - the Seas mid/woof and the LCY tweeter, which which extends to 60khz.
Could some of the outstanding  comments and performance on these Salk models (speaking from what I've read, I don't own a pair - yet) be related to the choice of the LCY very extended range tweeter performance?  Since it's range is used to -3db/60khz in the these two Salk models, could that be some of the magic? - that you are getting the benefit of not cutting off the response at 20khz, like many other conventional tweeters? 

There are a lot of very pisitive comments on having this very extended response, positively affecting what we hear in the conventional range of frequency response and what we hear.

[srb]

That's certainly possible.  But my suspicion is that the magic I hear in my ribbon tweeters is more a result of the superb mechanical operation of the device in the frequency region up to 20KHz, by virtue of the ultra-low mass ribbon and the very strong magnetic field it operates in.
 
Steve

[Nuance]

The drivers in Salk speakers are all very nice, but I give credit to the crossover designer for making it synergize so well.  I've heard "great" drivers sound mediocre with a poor crossover design, and I've heard mediocre drivers sound very good with a great crossover design.  In my opinion Salk offers the best of both worlds.

Thank you Mr. Murphy!  Simply put, you rock! 

[Toka]

That's certainly possible.  But my suspicion is that the magic I hear in my ribbon tweeters is more a result of the superb mechanical operation of the device in the frequency region up to 20KHz, by virtue of the ultra-low mass ribbon and the very strong magnetic field it operates in.

I suspect that this is the case as well.

[DMurphy]

The drivers in Salk speakers are all very nice, but I give credit to the crossover designer for making it synergize so well.  I've heard "great" drivers sound mediocre with a poor crossover design, and I've heard mediocre drivers sound very good with a great crossover design.  In my opinion Salk offers the best of both worlds.

Thank you Mr. Murphy!  Simply put, you rock! 

Rock on, dude.   Thanks very much.  We'll see whether Jim agrees when he hears the latest (and freaking LAST) version of the HT4 I just sent him.  As for the LCY, I agree with the 2 previous posts.  I don't think what you hear has anything to do with what's going on above 20 kHz.  And I really don't know whether it can reach 60 kHz or not.  But if it can, that's simply a by-product of the low mass that improves its performance in the 10 kHz- 20 kHz range.

[Rocket]

Hi Dennis,

Can you describe the differences between the lcy and raal ribbon tweeters (apart from price)?

I have had raven 1 ribbon tweeter in another speaker I had and the lcy really is a gem.

Regards

Rod

[Mudslide]

We'll see whether Jim agrees when he hears the latest (and freaking LAST) version of the HT4 I just sent him.

And here we all thought you were elbows-deep in the design of the "SnowBird" and practicing your Nordic cross-country skiing.   

Good work, Dennis.  Here's hoping Jim gives the gives it the  .

[DMurphy]

Hi Dennis,

Can you describe the differences between the lcy and raal ribbon tweeters (apart from price)?
Regards
Rod

That's not as easy as you might think.  RAAL is a small (certainly not larger than SalkSound) Serbian operation headed by one Aleksandar Radisavljevic.  I'll call him Alex.  Alex is an extremely inventive guy (he always brings a smile-inducing speaker design to the Denver show), but the full name says it.  His explanations of the science behind the RAAL ribbon drivers read a little like they were translated word for word from the Serbian.  As best I can make out, there asre 3 main differences between the RAAL's and the LCY.  First, the magnetic field is more evenly distributed across the foil ribbon element, which Alex cliams increases strength, eliminates the need for corrugated construction, and allows the second difference--a thin face plate that doesn't require a horn-like wave guide shape for proper coupling.  The latter causes an increase in response with increasing frequency, which complicates crossover design.  Alex claims, and my measurements confirm, that the RAAL is dead flat across its useable range.  The strong ribbon element (which is twice as wide as the commercial version on the OEM unit that Jim uses) also allows a very low crossover point--1800 Hz, vs. about 2400 Hz for the LCY.  Finally, Alex claims unique construction materials and design features for the impedance-matching transformer.  I have no reason to doubt his word, but I frankly couldn't follow the explanation.  All I can say is that the RAAL's are built like a brick you know what, measure consistently and beautifully, and have a more open sound than any other unit I've used. 

[oneinthepipe]

All I can say is that the RAAL's are built like a brick you know what, measure consistently and beautifully, and have a more open sound than any other unit I've used.

She's a Brick, You Know What  -  Commodores

Will we be seeing more RAAL tweeters in other Salk speakers?  What about an HT2-RAAL-TL?

Speaking of names for the the HT4, how about Reality?  (from the latin, RAAL-ity)

[Vapor Audio]

All I can say is that the RAAL's are built like a brick you know what, measure consistently and beautifully, and have a more open sound than any other unit I've used.

Hey Dennis, don't know if you've tried the amorphous core yet ... but judging by your lack of an exclamation mark or glowing adjectives, I'm gonna guess not.  I wasn't expecting a big difference from it, and on measurements it looks the same, but it certainly doesn't sound the same!  Micro-detail out the wazoo.

[DMurphy]

Hey Dennis, don't know if you've tried the amorphous core yet ... but judging by your lack of an exclamation mark or glowing adjectives, I'm gonna guess not.  I wasn't expecting a big difference from it, and on measurements it looks the same, but it certainly doesn't sound the same!  Micro-detail out the wazoo.

Jim bought the amorphous core--that's one of the design features I don't understand.  As for using the OEM as an HT2 (or HT3) upgrade,  that sounds like a worthwhile investment--much more so than biwiring or designer caps.  And the vertical dimension of the face plate is actually slightly shorter than the LCY diameter, so the Woofer spacing wouldn't have to be changed.   Oh Jim...................................          Of course, you relalize that the RAAL costs $800 a piece.    Yes sir.   $1400 a  piece. 

[oneinthepipe]

As for using the OEM as an HT2 (or HT3) upgrade,  that sounds like a worthwhile investment--much more so than biwiring or designer caps.  And the vertical dimension of the face plate is actually slightly shorter than the LCY diameter, so the Woofer spacing wouldn't have to be changed.   Oh Jim...................................          Of course, you relalize that the RAAL costs $800 a piece.    Yes sir.   $1400 a  piece.

I need to pick the veneer for my new HT2-RAAL-TL. 

How much did you say?   

[srb]

Of course, you relalize that the RAAL costs $800 a piece.    Yes sir.   $1400 a piece.

No sure what you were trying to say here.  Did you mean $1600 a pair?

Steve

[DMurphy]

Uh--you're not "Alex," are you?   In any event, that wasn't a serious price quote. Just an effort to justify a humongous price increase for the RAAL HT2's that Jim might actually make a living on.

No sure what you were trying to say here.  Did you mean $1600 a pair?

[polarbare]

Well shoot - I am having a pair of HT2-TL's built right now (somewhere in the pipeline  ) - want to use mine as a test bed for the RAAL's? 

[oneinthepipe]

Well shoot - I am having a pair of HT2-TL's right now (somewhere in the pipeline  ) - want to use mine as a test bed for the RAAL's? 

Hey, buddy, it was my idea.   

J/K, go for it.  I would call Jim to place my order but he is probably watching Jimmy Fallon.

[polarbare]

Hey, buddy, it was my idea.   

J/K, go for it.  I would call Jim to place my order but he is probably watching Jimmy Fallon.

Somehow I'm thinking that this is just fantasy land anyway - sounds like DMurphy is having fun trying to design the crossover. But if there was a chance, I'd be interested.

[oneinthepipe]

Somehow I'm thinking that this is just fantasy land anyway - sounds like DMurphy is having fun trying to design the crossover. But if there was a chance, I'd be interested.

Jim might be willing (provided that Dennis would be willing to design the crossover).  I am interested, depending on the cost, and finding a buyer for my speakers.

[kip_]

Rick Craig has done a MTM that would be similar to a HT2-RAAL with the same drivers. It's a monitor and not a Transmission line design however:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=67186.0
http://www.selahaudio.com/id188.html

[Vapor Audio]

Jim bought the amorphous core--that's one of the design features I don't understand.  As for using the OEM as an HT2 (or HT3) upgrade,  that sounds like a worthwhile investment--much more so than biwiring or designer caps.  And the vertical dimension of the face plate is actually slightly shorter than the LCY diameter, so the Woofer spacing wouldn't have to be changed.   Oh Jim...................................          Of course, you relalize that the RAAL costs $800 a piece.    Yes sir.   $1400 a  piece.

Let me know what you think of the amorphous core, if you get the same wow factor that I did.  I took my speaker with the regular 70-20XR to RMAF and got real familiar with it ... then while there heard about the Kaiser Sawero (or whatever it's called) that was also using the RAAL.  Anybody who heard it knows the ridiculous detail and delicacy it was putting out, and it was using the amorphous core.  First thing I did when I got home was order a pair of those