[oneinthepipe]

Frank posted this link in the AVA Circle, but I thought that folks here might be interested in this audioholics' article.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1

Jim, please do not hesitate, for any reason, to delete this topic.

[Nuance]

This is ROBBERY!!  Lexicon has forever been put on my blacklist.  Unbelievable...

This brings us to an even bigger picture, one we all knew existed in our guts: the big magazines and some (perhaps many) of the uber expensive audio companies are simply here to lie to us with the goal to rip us off and make more money.  Pathetic.   

Unfortunately the old saying "you get what you pay for" does not apply to audio/video.  How sad...  Now you all know why I went on my "speaker journey;" I wanted to find the best for the price, because a lot of what is out there is a rip off.

[taoggniklat]

While I agree it is amazing that Lexicon did this in this manor, they are not the first in the "high-end" audio world to do so.

I understand why they used the Oppo as a chassis to work off of (no sense re-inventing the wheel), but to not change a thing other than the OSD, is just bad strategy. I love how it exposed THX "certification" for what it has been for at least a decade.

O well.

[sfox7076]

This reminds me of the Cadillac Cimarron.  It was still just a fully equipped Cavalier that was double the price.

[oneinthepipe]

This reminds me of the Cadillac Cimarron.  It was still just a fully equipped Cavalier that was double the price.

But at least it was fully-equipped.  And there wasn't any attempt to hide that Cadillac and Chevy are owned by the same company or that the GM divisions have different versions of cars built on the same platform. 

The Lexicon doesn't have any additional equipment and is ten times the price.

[Bear]

excellent  comparison, Cadillac and Chevy had an "agreement",  just as, I assume oppo and lexicon do/did.  beat up Cimmeron was my first car btw.  Im sure Cadillac never advertised this as a only slightly aesthetically modified cavalier at a significant premium...to which it was.  Starting to see the similarities here.


"Don't get fooled again!!!!"

[Nuance]

Like I said over at AVS, this whole debacle makes me want to get an Oppo one day. 

[Phil A]

Lexicon has been doing a similar thing for years with players.  Their RT-20 universal player was a very slightly modified Marantz DV9500 for just under $3k more.  I believe their RT-10 was similar or identical to a Pioneer for a hefty premium as well.  What can you say when these things are posted over and over with a long history and people keep buying them.

[R Swerdlow]

Unfortunately the old saying "you get what you pay for" does not apply to audio/video.

For every old saying, there is usually another equal but opposite old saying :

You get what you pay for -- Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware)

Look before you leap -- He who hesitates is lost

Trust your ears -- In vino veritas

Got any others?

[randybessinger]

the question is were they both burned in properly....you know that makes a difference

[Bear]

As outraged as some are with this age old practice.....I am suprised at how "innocent" oppo is being portrayed.  do you think they let a company use their  product with-out discussing exactly how it would be used and priced?  Im sure it is a lucrative situation for oppo as well, dont you think?


more cliche's:

It takes two to tango.

[geezer]

Unhappily, there are snake-oil merchants everywhere. Some are out-and-out crooks; others are legal, but of dubious ethics. What Lexicon did is legal I'm sure. Whether it's ethical, I leave you to decide.

What is clear to me is that there are lots of opportunities in the audiophile arena for doubtful practices because, particularly in the high end part of the business, distinctions between products are subtle and frequently highly subjective.

I'd guess that if ten professional reviewers were to compare the Lexicon against the Oppo, knowing only the brand names and the prices (especially the prices), nine of them would place the Lexicon well above the Oppo.

[taoggniklat]

As outraged as some are with this age old practice.....I am suprised at how "innocent" oppo is being portrayed.  do you think they let a company use their  product with-out discussing exactly how it would be used and priced?  Im sure it is a lucrative situation for oppo as well, dont you think?


more cliche's:

It takes two to tango.

Not really. What difference to Oppo does it make if Lexicon buys the units, does nothing to them except put a new cover on it and sell it for much more than Oppo. The only stipulation in the agreement is that Lexicon couldn't sell them for less than Oppo's MSRP. Oppo made their money selling x units to Lexicon. Holding a grudge against Oppo for this is silly imo. If Lexicon hadn't simply dropped the Oppo faceplace and all inside a new box, there probably wouldn't be as much hoopla over this. That was poor planning on their part. The worst of it is the so called reviews out there stating that the Lexicon performed better, when the reality is that they are the same exact unit.

Re-badging of gear in the Audio world is nothing new. Many companies have done so. The problem people are having with this Lexicon piece is that they did nothing other than put a new cover and change the name in the OSD, and slapped on a $3k fee for it. Other companies that re-badge gear typically make modifications to the circuitry there-by making it a different product.

[taoggniklat]

Unhappily, there are snake-oil merchants everywhere. Some are out-and-out crooks; others are legal, but of dubious ethics. What Lexicon did is legal I'm sure. Whether it's ethical, I leave you to decide.

What is clear to me is that there are lots of opportunities in the audiophile arena for doubtful practices because, particularly in the high end part of the business, distinctions between products are subtle and frequently highly subjective.

I'd guess that if ten professional reviewers were to compare the Lexicon against the Oppo, knowing only the brand names and the prices (especially the prices), nine of them would place the Lexicon well above the Oppo.

The other thing to note is that just because one company rebadges another companies product, that doesn't inherently mean they are cheapskates. As long as either make modifications to it or state what it is, who cares. Why re-invent the wheel for some of this stuff.

For instance take this Lexicon. Lexicon decides they want to produce a dvd player for their product line. Great. Do they need to create it from the ground up when the technology is already out there? No, so they go find a decent transport to base their unit off of...enter the Oppo. The oppo already has a solid reputation as a good product. If Lexicon had then changed the audio circuitry, or video circuitry, or added a new feature to the unit (not just OSD or THX), then all would be well and people could make the decision to buy an Oppo or a Lexicon and not feel cheated out of $3k.

[taoggniklat]

This is ROBBERY!!  Lexicon has forever been put on my blacklist.  Unbelievable...

This brings us to an even bigger picture, one we all knew existed in our guts: the big magazines and some (perhaps many) of the uber expensive audio companies are simply here to lie to us with the goal to rip us off and make more money.  Pathetic.   

Unfortunately the old saying "you get what you pay for" does not apply to audio/video.  How sad...  Now you all know why I went on my "speaker journey;" I wanted to find the best for the price, because a lot of what is out there is a rip off.

I think blacklisting a company forever is a bit much. After all Lexicon does have some products that do have a reputable history. This is the first time I have heard of Lexicon doing something this obvious and I think they will do what they can to correct their reputation. I have a feeling that Lexicon will discontinue this product as is and will come out down the road with another version with their own circuitry. Someone at Lexicon just dropped the ball on this project.

Honestly, the snake oil is the with the reviewers.

[Cacophonix]

weren't these guys earlier selling rebadged bryston amps?

[Nuance]

For every old saying, there is usually another equal but opposite old saying :

You get what you pay for -- Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware)

Look before you leap -- He who hesitates is lost

Trust your ears -- In vino veritas

Got any others?

Haha, true, true.

the question is were they both burned in properly....you know that makes a difference

HA!

Re-badging of gear in the Audio world is nothing new. Many companies have done so. The problem people are having with this Lexicon piece is that they did nothing other than put a new cover and change the name in the OSD, and slapped on a $3k fee for it. Other companies that re-badge gear typically make modifications to the circuitry there-by making it a different product.

Bingo.  My beef is that they didn't actually change anything other than the chassis. 

If Lexicon had then changed the audio circuitry, or video circuitry, or added a new feature to the unit (not just OSD or THX), then all would be well and people could make the decision to buy an Oppo or a Lexicon and not feel cheated out of $3k.

Word

[taoggniklat]

weren't these guys earlier selling rebadged bryston amps?

Yes, but if I remember correctly the price difference between the two products (Bryston vs Lexicon) wasn't quote as significant as the Oppo and Lexicon.

Also I think Lexicon did make some modifications to the amps, but I can't verify that.

[geezer]

Unhappily, there are snake-oil merchants everywhere. Some are out-and-out crooks; others are legal, but of dubious ethics. What Lexicon did is legal I'm sure. Whether it's ethical, I leave you to decide.

What is clear to me is that there are lots of opportunities in the audiophile arena for doubtful practices because, particularly in the high end part of the business, distinctions between products are subtle and frequently highly subjective.

I'd guess that if ten professional reviewers were to compare the Lexicon against the Oppo, knowing only the brand names and the prices (especially the prices), nine of them would place the Lexicon well above the Oppo.

Well, here's one example: http://hometheaterreview.com/lexicon-bd-30-universal-blu-ray-player-reviewed/

[Phil A]

Well, here's one example: http://hometheaterreview.com/lexicon-bd-30-universal-blu-ray-player-reviewed/

The publisher (whose name appears near the top) is noted for that type of stuff.  I use to get avrevolution.com from him and many years back asked to be removed from their E-Mail list for those very reasons.  I am bombarded with enough ads on sites and don't need another one which is pretending to be a product review.