Problem with a new (to me) Candela

kyndcookie · « **on:** 3 Jun 2016, 09:59 pm »

Hi all - I've been lurking a while but now that I have just received a new Candela in the mail I'd like to ask for some help. I purchased this recently from a member over on Audiogon. It's not even a year old and looks to be in fine shape. I unpacked it, put it in-line and warmed it up. I turned on my amps and noticed there was no noise. Dropped a needle on the new Vanessa Fernandez and nothing. Mine has what appears to be two sets of outputs. I tried both, nothing. I ran through all the inputs, no deal. I tried rolling new Psvane 12AU7s in and that didn't help either. Yes, it was powered on.

The one input which did work was the fixed-output "home theater" input.

I also just ran a signal into Aux 2 and heard music at a very low level when I put my ear within a few inches.

Before I start messaging the previous owner I'd like to see if anyone has further insight. This pre is not complicated, and I've owned tube pres in the past.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

richidoo · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 01:26 pm »

Is it muted?

Phil A · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 02:02 pm »

You have to remember with the HT Bypass input the volume to not controlled by the Candela volume knob but by the device that is plugged into it. It is meant for a receiver so that when it is on that input the receiver volume control is what makes it louder. It allows one to have a two channel system with a nice preamp and also have HT. I've not used the HT Bypass input on my Candela (I could - the room has in-ceiling rear speakers but has limited space so I'm using it for just 2-channel). I'm a big fan of HT Bypass (have 3 preamps with it). After buying expensive processors that become obsolete with new surround standards, it makes it easy to go to a place like accessories4less.com and get a refurb receiver and not spend a fortune for good HT>

kyndcookie · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 02:57 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 4 Jun 2016, 01:26 pm

Is it muted?

That's a good question. Short answer is, I don't know. It shouldn't be. I would imagine that a power cycle would undo an electronic mute. Unfortunately the remote was fairly trashed in the trip to me due to poor packing of that particular accessory. I'll try to put it back together but oddly the buttons are not labeled. and there are maybe 15 of them. I know Klaus uses generic remotes but I would have thought I'd get at least labeled buttons.

Is there a hard button on the pre for mute? I didn't see one...

kyndcookie · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: Phil A on 4 Jun 2016, 02:02 pm

You have to remember with the HT Bypass input the volume to not controlled by the Candela volume knob but by the device that is plugged into it. It is meant for a receiver so that when it is on that input the receiver volume control is what makes it louder. It allows one to have a two channel system with a nice preamp and also have HT. I've not used the HT Bypass input on my Candela (I could - the room has in-ceiling rear speakers but has limited space so I'm using it for just 2-channel). I'm a big fan of HT Bypass (have 3 preamps with it). After buying expensive processors that become obsolete with new surround standards, it makes it easy to go to a place like accessories4less.com and get a refurb receiver and not spend a fortune for good HT>

Yep, I am very aware of that. I blasted my poor kiddos this morning with Vanessa Fernandez's "Use Me" on SACD. My Oppo 103 has volume control, but not for SACD for whatever reason.

Phil A · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 04:59 pm »

Are you playing things back via the analog outs with the Oppo?

kyndcookie · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 06:22 pm »

Quote from: Phil A on 4 Jun 2016, 04:59 pm

Are you playing things back via the analog outs with the Oppo?

For a short period of time I did run the analog outs from the Oppo into the HT input of the Candela, yes.

I only did that while checking all the inputs. As before, nothing was passing signal except the HT input. I've messaged the seller on Agon. Maybe I'm just missing something obvious. Maybe it was damaged somehow in shipping. I don't know.

Phil A · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 06:29 pm »

The reason I asked is that the volume control just works on the analog outs (should be in the manual). I don't use the volume controls on any my Oppo players (I have two 103Ds) so I've not tried it. I only use my 103D in the main system for HT.

richidoo · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 07:17 pm »

Candela has relay controlled input selector. Are the relays clicking when you change inputs?

Did you look inside for anything obvious like loose connection, burnt parts, etc? Don't open it unless you know what you're doing.

Source and power amp are still working, right? Murphy's Law sometimes has a really bad sense of humor.

Next step will be to probe the signal thru the pre. The first place I would check for signal is just before the muting relay after the output stage.

Are you hearing any tube hiss in the speakers, or dead silent?

kyndcookie · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jun 2016, 09:43 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 4 Jun 2016, 07:17 pm

Candela has relay controlled input selector. Are the relays clicking when you change inputs?

Did you look inside for anything obvious like loose connection, burnt parts, etc? Don't open it unless you know what you're doing.

Source and power amp are still working, right? Murphy's Law sometimes has a really bad sense of humor.

Next step will be to probe the signal thru the pre. The first place I would check for signal is just before the muting relay after the output stage.

Are you hearing any tube hiss in the speakers, or dead silent?

Thanks for your response. I do hear relays click very shortly after switching sources. I did look for obvious problems under the hood when I swapped out tubes. I didn't see anything that stood out to me, and I have experience refurbishing a few pieces of vintage hifi gear.

I did indeed check to make sure amps and sources were all functioning, but hey, if no one asked...

When I switched to the CD input I could very faintly hear the CD coming from both speakers when I put my ear very close (within a few inches) of the tweeter/upper mid drivers of my Legacy Audio Classics. I do not hear any tube rush or other noise with the preamp on and no signal.

I did look up specs for the Candela and my Parasound HCA-750A amps (which I'm running mono).
Candela's output impedance is listed as <2k ohms
Parasound's input impedance is 33k ohms Sensitivity is 0.775V
So it doesn't look like there's impedance mismatch either.

AlexG · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Jun 2016, 02:13 pm »

Kindcookie -

It appears the output (protection delay control circuit) relay is not working. It could be a loose or open wire - as I have never experience a faulty relay. Please PM your phone number so I can call you.
In the meantime, open the unit, just have only the AC pluged in (do this on a table and hands off), turn the unit on making sure the blue led's in the front are on, and concentrate in the relay to the right as seen from the front over the input board. You should hear a click at aprox 25-35 seconds. If it doesn't trigger then you have no output.
The HT bypass input is a straight pass to the outputs with no volume control. Do not connect a source directly as it will go 100% to your amp (s) and speakers!

Thanks.
Alex

kyndcookie · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Jun 2016, 03:21 pm »

Thanks, Alex. I just sent you a PM.

I did as Alex suggested and there was a relay click near the power inlet around 20 seconds after powering up.

I have taken the Candela offline and put my Rogue Metis back in for now. I can't have Sunday breakfast without tunes!

kyndcookie · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Jun 2016, 08:13 pm »

Well, this is pretty amazing. I don't have a solution to my problem just yet, but Alex called me directly yesterday morning. Too bad I missed his call. When I called Odyssey this afternoon Klaus answered the phone. Klaus was friendly, but really wanted me to speak with Alex.

I'm sure at some point this issue will be resolved, either in my living room or at their shop. What floors me is that the designer of the gear and the head of the company are both so accessible and willing to help.

The saga continues but I have confidence.

Edited to add: It's going back to the fellow who sold it to me. Thanks everyone for your input! Big thanks to Alex for spending a goodly amount of time on the phone with me today.

AlexG · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Jun 2016, 11:06 pm »

Just to close this episode - while Shawn (kindcookie) has technical background and we tried to trouble shoot his problem, he send me a couple pics and I saw right away this unit was modified by someone with component changes! Of course this repair will not be covered under Odyssey warranty.

Sorry Shawn, it was nice talking to you.

Thank you.

Alex

JackD · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jun 2016, 12:50 am »

Shawn

Is that the one that had the Clarity cap upgrade from NJ?

kyndcookie · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jun 2016, 01:20 am »

Quote from: JackD on 7 Jun 2016, 12:50 am

Shawn

Is that the one that had the Clarity cap upgrade from NJ?

Indeed.

JackD · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jun 2016, 01:41 am »

I looked at that ad as I was going to finally break down and try a Candela after four of Klaus' amps but I didn't think that was something Alex would have done and had to unauthorized. Plus if the upgrade was so much better why sell. Instead he just screwed up the preamp and didn't know how to fix it. If you paid with Paypal he will have to eat it.

Phil A · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jun 2016, 02:10 am »

I know it happens but can't understand why someone would do that. If you did it, it would be (to me) easier to call Odyssey and pay for the repair and then sell it if that's what you wanted to do. I never get in over my head with that stuff. I just opened up on old (Modwright) modded Oppo BDP-83 I had in a guest room as the drawer wouldn't open more often than not. If it is much more than that I just leave it to the pros. I've opened things up and fixed bad solder joints or upgraded firmware chips on an old processor. If someone wants to seriously learn that stuff on their own there are plenty of garage sales to get cheap junk and play with it.

kyndcookie · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jun 2016, 02:11 am »

Quote from: JackD on 7 Jun 2016, 01:41 am

I looked at that ad as I was going to finally break down and try a Candela after four of Klaus' amps but I didn't think that was something Alex would have done and had to unauthorized. Plus if the upgrade was so much better why sell. Instead he just screwed up the preamp and didn't know how to fix it. If you paid with Paypal he will have to eat it.

That would be my guess as well. The seller is not giving me a hard time about it so all's well that ends well (for me) I suppose.

I'm still looking for a replacement for my Rogue Metis. As much as I love it I may (at this point) experiment with a SS pre. I'm not sold on the Tempest, though. There are a lot of fine looking SS models floating around the usual sites in the $1100 range. I was tempted to jump on that Bel Canto Pre2...Talk aout a night and day difference, I'm sure!

JackD · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jun 2016, 02:36 am »

If you want to go in the SS direction for a change I would suggest trying a used W4S STP-SE. Has all the inputs and outputs you should ever need. It just gets out of the way and you hear the rest of the system. If he still has it member Flac2Dac had one for sale in the Trading Post. I've had mine for over two years and swap it back and forth with the Modwright LS-100.