[rockadanny]

My budget is under $1k and considering 37" - 42" sizes.

Any issues buying from Best Buy?
Any issues buying open stock/demo to save $$?
BB salesman told me I need to have the TV professionally calibrated on a regular basis. Can I DIY this process instead?
Plasma and LCD - does one require more maintenance (calibration) than the other?
And of course, the salesman wants me to buy the top-of-the-line warranty service. I've never ever bought any extended warranty on anything in my life. But is this, or any costly service contract, necessary for these TVs (plasma/lcd)?

I'd be happy to hear about your experiences related to these questions.

Thank you (in advance).

[jaywills]

Here's my take, FWIW:

Any issues buying from Best Buy?

Not generally.  I picked up a 42" Samsung plasma for our bedroom, buying a floor sample from their Ebay resale store (~$470-something, IIRC).  Has worked fine with no problems.

Any issues buying open stock/demo to save $$?

Not for me.

BB salesman told me I need to have the TV professionally calibrated on a regular basis. Can I DIY this process instead?

Yes, you can do it in large part using a commercially available calibration disc such as Get Grey or Video Digital Essentials.  That will get you a decent grey scale and color tint/saturation.  ISF calibration can be very good, but it can run ~$250-500, depending on who's doing it & how it is done.  Only the most fanatic seem to have one done "regularly."  Probably depends upon your environment & tastes & the quality of the set you get.

Plasma and LCD - does one require more maintenance (calibration) than the other?

Not for the plasma I have.  How often does one calibrate their LCD computer monitors?

And of course, the salesman wants me to buy the top-of-the-line warranty service. I've never ever bought any extended warranty on anything in my life. But is this, or any costly service contract, necessary for these TVs (plasma/lcd)?

Given the nature of my purchase (floor model), I got a warranty (bring it back & get another).  I'm not aware that there's a hugh failure rate out there.  BTW, the in-store extended warranty for new ones, given mfr's warranties, is probably a cash cow for BB, given that ~ 50% of the warranty cost is retained by BB for their "fee."

You might want to check out AVS Forum (no affiliation).  They have a tremendous amount of info directly addressing your questions and offer actual owner's opinions about just about every model you can find.  Good luck.  Cordially,

[Bigfish]

My budget is under $1k and considering 37" - 42" sizes.

Any issues buying from Best Buy?
Any issues buying open stock/demo to save $$?
BB salesman told me I need to have the TV professionally calibrated on a regular basis. Can I DIY this process instead?
Plasma and LCD - does one require more maintenance (calibration) than the other?
And of course, the salesman wants me to buy the top-of-the-line warranty service. I've never ever bought any extended warranty on anything in my life. But is this, or any costly service contract, necessary for these TVs (plasma/lcd)?

I'd be happy to hear about your experiences related to these questions.

Thank you (in advance).

The manufacturer of your chosen tv is responsible for the 1st year of warranty service.  Trust me, I purchased a plasma tv from BB and had problems just after their 30 day return/exhange period ended.  Although I had purchased their super duty warranty I was told I had to deal with Pioneer during the first year of ownership.  Long story - forget the warranty as you will pay 1/3 the value of the tv.

If you intend to play games I would advise you to go LCD.  If you have no intention to play games go with plasma or lcd, which ever you believe gives you the best picture.  My son owns an older Sony Bravia LCD and just loves it and the picture is excellent.  I own a 50" plasma and I think the blacks are a little better but both pictures are really good on HD (suck in regular definition). 

Do yourself a favor and at least price the tvs at Sam's club and at on-line vendors.  I am not being negative against BB but just make certain you are getting the best value for your money.

Good luck and enjoy the new TV!

Ken

[blownrx7]

Buying from Best Buy can be a mixed bag...
Open stock stuff is probably your best bet at a decent buy (but not a best buy...) at BB.  Peace of mind knowing you can just bring it back to the store is a lot of peace of mind for some people.
IMHO, forget the extended warranty - it is a high profit margin item that the salesman will swear on his mother's grave you need. And oh, by the way, they get a fat commsiion on it....   You won't need it and if you do, I see one of two scenarios. Either it will still be covered under the mfr warranty, or it will be so old you will want to buy a new one anyway.

Calibration is something you can do yourself with some great results by just buying one of the calibration dvd's people mention on this forum.  Will you get the same as the professional cal - probably not. But the results will be so good anyway, you won't care. As far as needing recalibration, yes it will need it as ANY tv wears over time.  It may not be noticeable at all but once it is recalibrated, you'll say, wow, what a difference.  A lot of people swear by the pro calibration, and for some people, it is the way to go. BUT the fact of the matter is, you can get 75% of the way there by just using your eye and get a pleasing (to you) picture. It may not be accurate, buy YOU will like it.  You can get 90-95% of the way there with a calibration DVD. The remaining 5-10% is for us anal-retentive videophiles who can notice a pimple on a gnat's a**.  Again IMHO, YMMV.

For comparison, here is a deal I came across:

JVC LT-42X579 - 42" Widescreen 1080p LCD HDTV - 2000:1 Contrast Ratio - 6.5ms Response Rate
http://www.buy.com/prod/jvc-lt-42x579-42-widescreen-1080p-lcd-hdtv-2000-1-contrast-ratio-6-5ms/q/loc/111/208156830.html

There are others.

HTH

[toobluvr]

Professional calibration?!!!!!!
 

Good Lordie.....what have we become as a society?!
 

I just used my eyes to do my 42 inch plasma, and it looks phenomenal.
Did it when I first got it 2 years ago and it has been rock solid steady, and I have no itch whatsoever to adjust anything.  It looks natural and stunning.  Did the same to my girlfriend's and it too looks incredible.

Have some confidence......lose the anxiety that it is not "perfect"......do it yourself......and save your money!

[zybar]

Professional calibration?!!!!!!
 

Good Lordie.....what have we become as a society?!
 

I just used my eyes to do my 42 inch plasma, and it looks phenomenal.
Did it when I first got it 2 years ago and it has been rock solid steady, and I have no itch whatsoever to adjust anything.  It looks natural and stunning.  Did the same to my girlfriend's and it too looks incredible.

Have some confidence......lose the anxiety that it is not "perfect"......do it yourself......and save your money!

John,

Depending on the size of the display and how accurate you want set to be, professional calibration is indeed a viable way to go. 

While you can do a good job using any of the DVD's or Blu-ray's out there, you can't do a totally accurate greyscale and geometry calibration without the proper test equipment. 

It would obviously be up to each person to determine what level they want their calibration to achieve based on cost and expected results. 

Before hiring anybody to calibrate your display, be sure to get a list of what they will calibrate, what test equipment they are going to use, etc...

George

[Dan_ed]

Unfortunately, BB is about the only game in town these days. But buying from them can sometimes work out beautifully.

My beloved Loewe Aconda 38" HDTV gasped its last breath a couple of months ago. My wife and I wound up at a local BB, one that has a Magnolia Hifi. We came away with a 58" Samsung plasma (can't remember the model). I wanted the same sized Panny sitting next to it. However, the salesman/manager gave us a huge discount on the Sammy because there was only the floor demo available for that model. $2800! The Panny was just under $4K. Even though I thought the Panny had a better picture, I went with the cheaper price this time.    We also decided to load up on the warranty, which includes calibration just about anytime we want to have it done. Still, the total was well under the price of the Panny. We had a calibration done just that about a month ago. Be sure to ask on any BB warranty about replacement, etc. All BB warranties are not the same, and again this was with Magnolia which is BB's answer to hi-end, FWIW.

Trust me here. There is a huge difference between mucking around with picture settings vs. a professional ISF calibration. I do own the Avia dvd. Plasmas put out heat. During the ISF calibration the tech can turn down the settings so that less energy is used. And, this guy showed me how to get into the service port. That's how I learned there were ~2000 hrs. on the set. Not bad really for a floor demo.

ISF calibration is not required but as Zybar posted it is highly recommended.

LCD vs. plasma. I still see more motion artifacts with LCD. The highend LCDs are much better, approaching plasma. But the price of these sets is way above plasma these days. And IMHO they aren't as good. We're sensitive to this because we watch a lot of sports and this is our first digital display beyond a computer. My ol' tubed Loewe would still best most plasmas before it died, you just had to settle for a smaller HD picture. LCD does not run as warm.

I hope this helped.

[toobluvr]

Re:  professional calibration.

I guess I am just not perfectionist enough when it comes to the visual experience.
 

To me it is kindof like listening to your high end system.  When it sounds "right", you just know it, and you don't wanna touch anything for fear of screwing it up.  Conversely, when it is off a bit, you know that too and you are constantly adjusting, fiddling, tweeking, etc to get it "right".

I figure it is no different for visuals.  When watching, if no niggling doubts creep in......if you have no inclination whatsoever to touch anything.....if it just looks "right" and natural, it probably is.

But I will be the first to admit I am no expert when it comes to the HT or watching experience.  I don't put much emphasis there,  nor am I as anal about it as I am on the listening side.  If the picture looks clean, accurate and natural, that's enough for me and I don't sweat it.  Another indicator is whether I feel the constant urge to adjust it.  I don't, so I figure the picture is adjusted right.

I don't use measuring devices to either buy or voice my stereo system.  I use my ears.  Oftentimes gear that measures more linear or ""better" does not sound as good as other gear that does not measure as well.  Do we choose based on measurements or hearing?

Likewise, to lock in my Plasma, I use my eyes.  What if the "perfectly professionally calibrated" picture does not look "right" to me.  Should I accept it?   Isn't the correctly calibrated picture the one that just looks right?  Why cannot the correct calibration be achieved with just our eyes?  After all, isn't the objective to watch a picture that looks natural, accurate and "right" to us?  And why is professional equipment required to achieve this?

Not being disagreeable, just trying to understand.

[low.pfile]

These comments are from just a guy with an LCD in the living room and a 5.1 audio attached, not a videophile.

Funny how until recently BB had no clue what calibration even was, until they figured they could make money on it. Calibration is beneficial if you are extremely discriminating. For complete dedicated HT set up pro calibration is very appropriate.

It is easy to spend 30 minutes using the DVD/BluRay calibration discs available. I've only used the DVD Digital Video Essentials versino but there are a couple of others as well. This gives you about 75% of the result of a pro calibrator who has access to service menus on the LCD. Unless you are in a very challenging room the calibration disc should be more than enough for your first LCD. http://www.videoessentials.com/products_main.php also at amazon. At $20 I recommend it.

TVs in the stores are almost always in "torch" mode settings to a) compete with the bright store lighting and b) be brighter than the next guy. Even the default factory settings are like that.  Years ago when I was shopping I had to aske for the hidden remotes to zero the settings out to make a somewhat fair comparison. Don't be afraid to ask.

Open/demo sets have lots ofhours on them! unless the amount of savings was in the 40%+ range, I would be more comfortable buying online-I just bought my parents a 46 "LCD online (20% savings). I bought my LCD at a local appliance store which was across the road from a Circuit City and the store beat CC's price by 10%.

Best Buy- I was the coach for a friend 2 months ago, for her first LCD-32". Ww walked into a BB and reviewed the units on display I gave her my recommendations based on limited knowledge from reviews. Mostly discussed frame design. Walked out 20 minutes later. BB is very convienent.

Warranty-unless I was dealing with an extremely new technology they are a waste of money.

hope that helps.

cheers, ed

[mjosef]

I have seen a couple "professional calibrated" sets that made me go...huh?  

I calibrated my plasma myself using 'over the counter tools' and swear that my DIY video results trumpts some of those pro-calibrated sets.
Of course, I saw a few professional jobs that were probably superior to my efforts, but its hard to say since those sets were using BluRay as a source, and I don't do Blu', not yet at least.

If you have a good eye for natural color, you can do a very good job. The biggest mistake I see the 'commoners' do is add too much color, it may look punchy with nature shots but collapses with skin tones. SO roll back that color.  aa

YMWV

[zybar]

Re:  professional calibration.

I guess I am just not perfectionist enough when it comes to the visual experience.
 

To me it is kindof like listening to your high end system.  When it sounds "right", you just know it, and you don't wanna touch anything for fear of screwing it up.  Conversely, when it is off a bit, you know that too and you are constantly adjusting, fiddling, tweeking, etc to get it "right".

I figure it is no different for visuals.  When watching, if no niggling doubts creep in......if you have no inclination whatsoever to touch anything.....if it just looks "right" and natural, it probably is.

But I will be the first to admit I am no expert when it comes to the HT or watching experience.  I don't put much emphasis there,  nor am I as anal about it as I am on the listening side.  If the picture looks clean, accurate and natural, that's enough for me and I don't sweat it.  Another indicator is whether I feel the constant urge to adjust it.  I don't, so I figure the picture is adjusted right.

I don't use measuring devices to either buy or voice my stereo system.  I use my ears.  Oftentimes gear that measures more linear or ""better" does not sound as good as other gear that does not measure as well.  Do we choose based on measurements or hearing?

Likewise, to lock in my Plasma, I use my eyes.  What if the "perfectly professionally calibrated" picture does not look "right" to me.  Should I accept it?   Isn't the correctly calibrated picture the one that just looks right?  Why cannot the correct calibration be achieved with just our eyes?  After all, isn't the objective to watch a picture that looks natural, accurate and "right" to us?  And why is professional equipment required to achieve this?

Not being disagreeable, just trying to understand.

I just wrote a long response but the system burped and I lost it.

I will try and re-write it later.

George

[zybar]

I have seen a couple "professional calibrated" sets that made me go...huh?  

I calibrated my plasma myself using 'over the counter tools' and swear that my DIY video results trumpts some of those pro-calibrated sets.
Of course, I saw a few professional jobs that were probably superior to my efforts, but its hard to say since those sets were using BluRay as a source, and I don't do Blu', not yet at least.

If you have a good eye for natural color, you can do a very good job. The biggest mistake I see the 'commoners' do is add too much color, it may look punchy with nature shots but collapses with skin tones. SO roll back that color.  aa

YMWV

You might like what you did more than a professional calibration, but you can't actually do a better job.

The pro's use equipment for a reason...your eyes can't set greyscale, geometry, and colors perfectly - equipment can.

George

[toobluvr]

You might like what you did more than a professional calibration, but you can't actually do a better job.

The pro's use equipment for a reason...your eyes can't set greyscale, geometry, and colors perfectly - equipment can.

George

If it looks better to your eye, you have done a better job!
 

Do the measurements / numbers really matter if it doesn't look as good?
Is some theoretically correct setting what is strived for?
 

That's like saying you would buy an amp simply because it measures better on the bench, despite another sounding better.

I don't think most would do that, and I know you would not George!

 

[low.pfile]

I think before this turns into a Pro Calibration thread, please keep in mind the OP's parameters

- first LCD/Plasma
- Size: 37"-42"
- Budget under $1000 (does that include calibration?)

and keep our input relative to that.

cheers, ed

[mjosef]

I dunno George, maybe some 'pros' are just not pros, even with aid of finely tuned instruments.
But since I have seen it, just file my comments under "suspiciously subjective" .  

One of those pro-done sets had the color way too high, skin tones were at the point of bleeding.


I am biased towards plasma, since its what I got and have yet to see LCD throw a better picture.

[toobluvr]

Since he is a beginner, I would think all relevant discussions are helpful, and probably welcome in climbing the learning curve.

I don't think things have moved too far off course.

[pjchappy]

I would recommend mid-line Samsung LCDs.  Check this one out:  Samsung 40"

I have the 46" version and couldn't be happier.  Had great reviews online and in Consumer Reports.  As mentioned, hard to truly compare the picture to other TVs at the store.

I bought it at Best Buy.  I did not buy their extended warranty.

I adjusted the color, etc. by eyeing it.  Looks pretty good.  I also tried recommended settings for my specific model from CNET.com.  Thought it looked like crap.

Keep in mind, the sound quality isn't so great (as with pretty much all flat panel TVs, IMO).

[low.pfile]

...Putting some $$ into the discusion

Best Buy Calibration of LCD (in Bay Area, CA 04/2009)

$300 regular price
$200 if purchased within 30 days of LCD purchase

[Mike Dzurko]

I saved about $1500 dollars on my 60" Pio Plasma by buying online over BB. Even a floor model at BB 6 months later was still about $700 higher.

On a 20" saved about $100 online vs. BB.

I would personally not go with the extended warranty for a variety of reasons.

I would say with a little work, and perhaps homework on the particular set you buy, you can do a pretty respectable self calibration, it might not be perfect, but as long as you buy a set with the picture you like, you should be able to get it looking darn good on your own. I think calibration makes sense for a really big picture in a dedicated theater kind of setup with really good audio, etc . . .

[Dan_ed]

One of those pro-done sets had the color way too high, skin tones were at the point of bleeding.

That sounds like how most manufacturers set their sets. Joe Sixer loves that look. 

toobluvr,

think of your display as a huge field of tiny rc circuits. The all have slight variations in their respective values and so what one thinks is the proper level is different from what the one next to it thinks.

What calibration does in simplest terms (I've written SW to do this on IR missile seekers) is calculate these differences for every circuit, and this builds a bias table for the entire field. Does this help explain why it different from the front panel controls and why it is you can't do this by eye? Also, with my set and many others, there is no way to save the settings the user puts in. Every time the set is turned of, the factory masks go back in place.

The result, when done properly, has a profound impact on 3D rendering. The color balance and other stuff are secondary.

I agree that BB is jumping on the bandwagon. I was rather unnerved when I saw the guy pull up in one of those b/w VWs.    What did I get myself into?  But he turned out to be pretty good at this.